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  1. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    Of course. The good reason is that the clasp was collected a few weeks after the murder.

    The purse was also found in a different location ... bed or closet. Was that DNA contaminated ... since the purse was found in a different location and collected on Dec 18?
    The multiple DNA profiles on the clasp and it being touched by multiple people instead of simply picking it up with tweezers and bagging it is highly suspect. Let's face it, ILE has given a million reasons to doubt their competence in handling evidence. That being said...

    Here's how this works, Otto. Police find evidence of you in a place where you don't belong. Either you argue that evidence and say you were never there (as Raf has) or you don't argue it and admit that you were there that night (as Rudy has). We're doubting the bra clasp because Raf claims he was never there. Is there reason to believe his defense's arguments against the clasp? Yes, amply so.


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  3. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    Made that up? I think not. Time and again? What time and again?

    Are you suggesting that I make things up time and again? Amanda and Raffaele couldn't discuss anything because of the language barrier.

    "Raffaele found Meredith to be a nice .. girl, but his lack of English prevented them from having a true conversation. When the foreign girls [Amanda and Meredith] had moved into the cottage, they'd tried speaking only in Italian, just to get in some practice, but they were unable to voice deeper thouhts than "Would you like mozzarella on that panini."

    Ref: Candace Dempsey

    Their common grounds were sex and drugs.
    We've been around and around about this, otto, as you surely remember!

    AK was learning Italian. She wasn't fluent, but that doesn't mean she didn't understand a word of it. The latter is your invention, to which you return whether we are talking about her relationship with RS or the interrogation and need for an interpreter.

    From my own experience with much briefer stays (no more than a week) in France and Spain, one picks up a language much more quickly if one has to use it in everyday activity. I'm sure AK and RS could understand one another with regard to everyday matters, particularly if RS spoke slowly. But that's still a far cry from AK having the fluency to deal with an aggressive interrogation by LE. (And a far cry from AK having the fluency to negotiate a three-way murder conspiracy.)

    Dempsey doesn't define the term "true conversation." If she means RS and AK couldn't fully discuss the subtler points of Italian futurist poetry, she's probably right. But since they'd only known one another for a week, I doubt they'd gotten around to early 20th century modernist movements. On the other hand, as Dempsey admits, AK could talk about pizza.

    So her fluency was somewhere in between.


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  5. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    If you would be so kind as to familiarize yourself with the case, then I would be spared accusations such as: "playing games" and "making things up".
    I make no claims to great knowledge of this case. However, I do recognize some of the unfounded assertions that resurface from time to time.


  6. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    She doesn't have any problem confirming Amanda's cartwheels ... the ones that so many people would like to see redefined as something different.

    She's not a bad writer ... no different than any other trashy crime novelist. It's unfortunate that her agenda comes through each time she over-discusses something. For example, she spends pages describing something that isn't very important (all the different people that were brought in for questioning - sometimes more than once - during the investigation), but it sets the stage so she can explain away Amanda's actions and words. She states that Amanda accused Patrick after 2 hours of questioning, and then goes on to say that she was sooooooooooooooo hungry by 5 in the morning. Poor girl. She also says that poor Amanda didn't realize that she should have stopped talking at 1:45 in the morning. Oops for Amanda.
    By the way, she doesn't confirm the cartwheel. She simply presents both sides of what Amanda and ILE say happened. There is no way to confirm what actually happened, unless one side changes their version. Either way, I've never considered the cartwheel anything but juvenile, and surely not the actions of a person who otherwise has been touted as a calculating murderess who knew how to manipulate every situation to deflect guilt away from her.


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  8. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    Having read Barbie's book, I found her to be fair and balanced in her view. I did not perceive her as having a temperament where she would "love to write" something derogatory about the family. I understood "Knox supporters" to mean the same that it has always meant: Knox's family and friend.

    But ... if you prefer to believe that Knox supporters, in this particular instance, meant "some other guy" and the people normally described as Knox supporters were not present ... sure. I will continue to believe that Chris, Deanna and Amanda's one friend were her supporters.
    Family members growling at the press would be news, otto. Of course Barbie would have reported it. That has nothing to do with her being unfair to the Mellas and Knox families.


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  10. #201
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    Otto, I was looking at the photos with Hendry's arrows. Why do you judge these meaningless? You know, there is something about that little bedroom, which makes you think of a burglary turned rape/murder. Wouldn't a fight or a sex game be conducted more in the living room? It just seems counter-intuitive that they would all 4 be in that tiny room. The more I revisit the pics, the less it seems like a group thing.


  11. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malkmus View Post
    By the way, she doesn't confirm the cartwheel. She simply presents both sides of what Amanda and ILE say happened. There is no way to confirm what actually happened, unless one side changes their version. Either way, I've never considered the cartwheel anything but juvenile, and surely not the actions of a person who otherwise has been touted as a calculating murderess who knew how to manipulate every situation to deflect guilt away from her.
    Good point---rather than cartwheels, she would have been putting on a show as the grief-stricken friend, had she known that she would become suspect.


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  13. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by claudicici View Post
    pepperoni may not be a good example.I don't know about Italy but in Germany pepperoni is a hot pepper not a type of salami
    google translate gives two Italian equivalents for pepperoni:

    1. peperoni
    2. salsiccia picante

    But we all know the limits of google translate. You're right: I should not have assumed that an ItalianATE word in English was the same word in Italian.

    My point, however, was that AK could order a pizza. otto provided a quote from Dempsey that has AK doing just that.


  14. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMK View Post
    Otto, I was looking at the photos with Hendry's arrows. Why do you judge these meaningless? You know, there is something about that little bedroom, which makes you think of a burglary turned rape/murder. Wouldn't a fight or a sex game be conducted more in the living room? It just seems counter-intuitive that they would all 4 be in that tiny room. The more I revisit the pics, the less it seems like a group thing.
    yes, I find it ironic that all this fuss about Hendry and the reason we're to believe he's a nut is apparently because Otto found the arrows to be incomprehensible when all they were there for was to simply indicate which drops of blood appeared to be aspirated by the victim. A lot of energy goes into trying to discredit anyone who stands up for Amanda and Raf. I guess Candace Dempsey's book is trash because she spends too much time detailing which witnesses were interviewed.


  15. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    google translate gives two Italian equivalents for pepperoni:

    1. peperoni
    2. salsiccia picante

    But we all know the limits of google translate. You're right: I should not have assumed that an ItalianATE word in English was the same word in Italian.

    My point, however, was that AK could order a pizza. otto provided a quote from Dempsey that has AK doing just that.
    Well, in English pepproncini is that hot pepper. Maybe that's what she's thinking of and not pepperoni? I dunno...


  16. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malkmus View Post
    What is her agenda? Also, I haven't been able to find where she agrees with the prosecution's TOD.
    I thought her agenda was crystal clear ... the bedroom was too small for a murder to have occurred ... it's the size of a "postage stamp" ... therefore Amanda is innocent.

    She makes several remarks that narrow the time of death to closer to 11 pm. I didn't see any blatant statement about it.


  17. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMK View Post
    Otto, I was looking at the photos with Hendry's arrows. Why do you judge these meaningless? You know, there is something about that little bedroom, which makes you think of a burglary turned rape/murder. Wouldn't a fight or a sex game be conducted more in the living room? It just seems counter-intuitive that they would all 4 be in that tiny room. The more I revisit the pics, the less it seems like a group thing.
    Of course, that 10' x 11' or 110 square foot bedroom was too small for a murder scene. Hendry said so, so did Dempsey. The prosecutors, defense lawyers and courts haven't said this ... but that doesn't matter ... if Hendry and Dempsey said it, it must be true. I wonder if a murder has ever occurred in a bathroom ... according to Hendry and Dempsey, this is impossible.


  18. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    How can you be suspicious of an author if you haven't read the book? I'm baffled by people that discuss the case with a fixed, or firm opinion when they haven't read much of anything about the case except what is published in US media and propaganda blogs. It's bewildering. I would compare it to a classroom where everyone is given an assignment to come to class prepared to discuss a particular topic, and where everyone decides that they can take a stance and "wing it". Obviously the discussion would be pretty low quality, or filled with confused opinions.

    I would like to point out that words such as "pro-conviction" and "pro-guilt" are all about Amanda, not about the case. That is exactly what the Knox public relations team wants ... to make this all about Amanda. This isn't about two Italian prosecutors, and it isn't about a judicial system that differs from that in the United States. This is about a British woman that was murdered in Italy. If one looks at this murder from that starting point, forgetting that Amanda is American, even pretending that the victim is American for the purpose of obtaining objectivity, conclusions may be very different.
    Perhaps you'd care to post a list of which words we can and cannot use. Obviously, we have been unable to satisfy you by choosing our own terms.


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  20. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    Of course, that 10' x 11' or 110 square foot bedroom was too small for a murder scene. Hendry said so, so did Dempsey. The prosecutors, defense lawyers and courts haven't said this ... but that doesn't matter ... if Hendry and Dempsey said it, it must be true. I wonder if a murder has ever occurred in a bathroom ... according to Hendry and Dempsey, this is impossible.
    how many group fights/sex games turned murder have taken place in bathrooms or tiny bedrooms?


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  22. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malkmus View Post
    yes, I find it ironic that all this fuss about Hendry and the reason we're to believe he's a nut is apparently because Otto found the arrows to be incomprehensible when all they were there for was to simply indicate which drops of blood appeared to be aspirated by the victim. A lot of energy goes into trying to discredit anyone who stands up for Amanda and Raf. I guess Candace Dempsey's book is trash because she spends too much time detailing which witnesses were interviewed.
    My my ... what a simplistic interpretation of what I have said about Hendry ... everything reduced to one statement and then my opinion can be dismissed. Excellent! I guess it's not surprising some believe that there is no evidence. Uhm ... the defense objected to the bra clasp and suggested contamination, therefore it must be true. Therefore, there is no evidence.

    QED


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