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Thread: WARNING:GRAPHIC PHOTOS Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #9

  1. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMK View Post
    Ditto Mignini. If Knox's actions count, so do his. They told a trauma stricken girl that her nightmares were reality. Shame on them.
    One of the prosecutors illegally wire tapped police and media. I suppose we have to allow for the possibility that this same prosecutor could illegally wire tapped police and media again.

    Amanda demonstrated that she does not care about how her actions impact others, and that she is quite comfortable with the knowledge that someone's life was destroyed because of her actions and statements. We know that when someone is suffering as a direct result of her actions, she will not do anything to assist. It's quite likely that Amanda's moral compass is permanently skewed and that she acted this way on more occassions than the ones that have been widely publicized.

    So ... we have the possibility that the prosecutor will illegally wiretap someone and the possibility that Amanda will continue to selfishly, and without moral conscience, harm others.

  2. #327
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    What's really disappointing about this, is that only one side was argued. http://www.komonews.com/news/local/1...html?tab=video

    It would have been much more effective to have the other side say why the evidence is good.

    Maybe they did that but in the interest of time, the News just showed the key points from the defense's side?

    Salem
    Last edited by Salem; 04-05-2011 at 05:21 PM. Reason: typo

  3. #328
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    It was very definitely not a debate, but rather an opportunity for those that view Amanda as a victim to promote their propaganda.

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  5. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    One of the prosecutors illegally wire tapped police and media. I suppose we have to allow for the possibility that this same prosecutor could illegally wire tapped police and media again.

    Amanda demonstrated that she does not care about how her actions impact others, and that she is quite comfortable with the knowledge that someone's life was destroyed because of her actions and statements. We know that when someone is suffering as a direct result of her actions, she will not do anything to assist. It's quite likely that Amanda's moral compass is permanently skewed and that she acted this way on more occassions than the ones that have been widely publicized.

    So ... we have the possibility that the prosecutor will illegally wiretap someone and the possibility that Amanda will continue to selfishly, and without moral conscience, harm others.
    I just don't see where Knox did this: Patrick was suggested to her by them, under conditions of duress for her. Mignini was under no duress with his 20 indictments which were thrown out.

  6. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    It was very definitely not a debate, but rather an opportunity for those that view Amanda as a victim to promote their propaganda.
    I think they believed the prosecution's case has been set forth in news and reports, for all to see. This was not a debate, but a forum. It was to show their side publicly.

  7. #331
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
    What's really disappointing about this, is that only one side was argued. http://www.komonews.com/news/local/1...html?tab=video

    It would have been much more effective to have the other side say why the evidence is good.

    Maybe they did that but in the interest of time, the News just showed the key points from the defense's side?

    Salem
    I think they wanted a public forum to air their views, as opposed to a debate. It was presupposed that the prosecution's side has been given ample coverage in reports and press articles.
    Last edited by Salem; 04-05-2011 at 05:22 PM. Reason: fix my typo :)

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  9. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMK View Post
    I just don't see where Knox did this: Patrick was suggested to her by them, under conditions of duress for her. Mignini was under no duress with his 20 indictments which were thrown out.
    What are you not seeing? Amanda accused Patick of murdering Meredith. She then voluntarily (no duress whatsoever) wrote a statement confirming this accusation and delivered it to police, calling it a "gift". For the two weeks following this "gift", Patrick was in jail. He was arrested as a direct result of her "gift". Even though she knew this was a lie, and should have understood that the arrest would ruin his life, she did nothing to assist Patrick.

    That is a particularly nasty thing to do.

  10. #333
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    One of the prosecutors illegally wire tapped police and media. I suppose we have to allow for the possibility that this same prosecutor could illegally wire tapped police and media again.

    Amanda demonstrated that she does not care about how her actions impact others, and that she is quite comfortable with the knowledge that someone's life was destroyed because of her actions and statements. We know that when someone is suffering as a direct result of her actions, she will not do anything to assist. It's quite likely that Amanda's moral compass is permanently skewed and that she acted this way on more occassions than the ones that have been widely publicized.

    So ... we have the possibility that the prosecutor will illegally wiretap someone and the possibility that Amanda will continue to selfishly, and without moral conscience, harm others.
    I have a sister who fits this description, who has made my life hell for decades. It's called malignant narcissism. If I felt Amanda were like her, I would want them to lock her up and throw away the key. I just don't see Knox as this.

  11. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    What are you not seeing? Amanda accused Patick of murdering Meredith. She then voluntarily (no duress whatsoever) wrote a statement confirming this accusation and delivered it to police, calling it a "gift". For the two weeks following this "gift", Patrick was in jail. He was arrested as a direct result of her "gift". Even though she knew this was a lie, and should have understood that the arrest would ruin his life, she did nothing to assist Patrick.

    That is a particularly nasty thing to do.
    IF I come to begin convinced of this version - as I have read numerous ones which show duress, guilt, being unable to retract - then perhaps I will begin to eye Amanda with less compassion. Also, she may have had reason to suspect PL, if they told her they had found a hair belonging to a black man, and if she was not there.

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  13. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    What are you not seeing? Amanda accused Patick of murdering Meredith. She then voluntarily (no duress whatsoever) wrote a statement confirming this accusation and delivered it to police, calling it a "gift". For the two weeks following this "gift", Patrick was in jail. He was arrested as a direct result of her "gift". Even though she knew this was a lie, and should have understood that the arrest would ruin his life, she did nothing to assist Patrick.

    That is a particularly nasty thing to do.
    In her written statement, didn't AK herself admit that the visions of Patrick at the cottage seemed more like a dream? I think I recall something like this, which in my mind bolsters the argument that her statement was created by the questioner's suggestion.

    Or am I getting my instances confused?

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  15. #336
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    Also: The symposium was entitled, "The Case for Innocence", and in no way claimed to be a debate by both sides.

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  17. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMK View Post
    IF I come to begin convinced of this version - as I have read numerous ones which show duress, guilt, being unable to retract - then perhaps I will begin to eye Amanda with less compassion. Also, she may have had reason to suspect PL, if they told her they had found a hair belonging to a black man, and if she was not there.
    It seems that some people are willing to overlook Amanda's horrendous lies, and her complete absence of empathy and compassion when someone is suffering as a direct result of her actions. I would not want anyone like Amanda anywhere near me, my family, or anyone I cared about. I feel the very same way about Joran van der Sloot.

    You've mention duress a couple of times. How was Amanda under duress when she, sitting alone, asked for paper and pen, and then wrote a statement confirming her accusations against Patrick? How was Amanda under duress a day, or 3 days, or even 14 days later such that she could not tell investigators that she told a big fat lie about Patrick?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChasingMoxie View Post
    In her written statement, didn't AK herself admit that the visions of Patrick at the cottage seemed more like a dream? I think I recall something like this, which in my mind bolsters the argument that her statement was created by the questioner's suggestion.

    Or am I getting my instances confused?
    No, you are not confused. Amanda had been having visions and nightmares - very typical after one's home is broken into, and a friend murdered - she wrote that the police had "convinced me that my dreams are real."

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  20. #339
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    It seems that some people are willing to overlook Amanda's horrendous lies, and her complete absence of empathy and compassion when someone is suffering as a direct result of her actions. I would not want anyone like Amanda anywhere near me, my family, or anyone I cared about. I feel the very same way about Joran van der Sloot.

    You've mention duress a couple of times. How was Amanda under duress when she, sitting alone, asked for paper and pen, and then wrote a statement confirming her accusations against Patrick? How was Amanda under duress a day, or 3 days, or even 14 days later such that she could not tell investigators that she told a big fat lie about Patrick?
    As I said elsewhere:
    Amanda had been having visions and nightmares - very typical after one's home is broken into, and a friend murdered - she wrote that the police had "convinced me that my dreams are real." I call this duress.

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  22. #340
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChasingMoxie View Post
    In her written statement, didn't AK herself admit that the visions of Patrick at the cottage seemed more like a dream? I think I recall something like this, which in my mind bolsters the argument that her statement was created by the questioner's suggestion.

    Or am I getting my instances confused?
    Amanda admitted that she was drugged up on the night of the murder, and she describes her memories as "flashbacks". Drugged up "flashbacks" are usually considered to be incomplete memories of actual events; incomplete because the drugs interfered with laying down a solid memory.

    Still ... what prevented Amanda from speaking the truth about Patrick after she told her mother about her horrendous lies? Nothing, as far as I can see. She had 14 days to come forward, to show compassion for a life she was destroying, but she chose to remain silent. That, in my opinion, is completely unforgiveable, and it speaks to very poor moral character.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sherlockh View Post
    BBM. Not exactly cross town. Her boyfriend was only a few minutes (walking distance) away.
    Still, there were knives at the house where Meredith and Amanda lived - why form the intent at RS's? BTW is there something in the background suggesting three ways? AK may have been sexually active but women don't tend to suggest bringing another woman in, men do. And if they decided to try and bring Meredith in, why the knife? This concocted story has too many GINORMOUS gaps that can't be filled with the scant evidence.
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  25. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMK View Post
    As I said elsewhere:
    Amanda had been having visions and nightmares - very typical after one's home is broken into, and a friend murdered - she wrote that the police had "convinced me that my dreams are real." I call this duress.
    From Trial Transcripts:

    Prosecutor: "I stand by my statements that I made last night about events that events that could have taken place in my home with Patrick." [In Italian: "I confirm..."] Do you know what the word "confirm" means in Italian? "In the flashbacks that I'm having, I see Patrick as the murderer." There wasn't any policeman with you when you wrote that. No one. You wrote that in complete liberty. Do you know how to explain to me why? And this is even more decisive than what you said some hours earlier. Can you explain this?

    http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/vie...le=1&f=8&t=165

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  27. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    Amanda admitted that she was drugged up on the night of the murder, and she describes her memories as "flashbacks". Drugged up "flashbacks" are usually considered to be incomplete memories of actual events; incomplete because the drugs interfered with laying down a solid memory.

    Still ... what prevented Amanda from speaking the truth about Patrick after she told her mother about her horrendous lies? Nothing, as far as I can see. She had 14 days to come forward, to show compassion for a life she was destroying, but she chose to remain silent. That, in my opinion, is completely unforgiveable, and it speaks to very poor moral character.
    Perhaps she was terrified that if she did so, they would go back to unfairly accusing her?

  28. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    From Trial Transcripts:

    Prosecutor: "I stand by my statements that I made last night about events that events that could have taken place in my home with Patrick." [In Italian: "I confirm..."] Do you know what the word "confirm" means in Italian? "In the flashbacks that I'm having, I see Patrick as the murderer." There wasn't any policeman with you when you wrote that. No one. You wrote that in complete liberty. Do you know how to explain to me why? And this is even more decisive than what you said some hours earlier. Can you explain this?

    http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/vie...le=1&f=8&t=165
    Well, I cannot speak for Amanda, but if I were she, I would have said, "Since you lied to me, told me you knew I was there, told me I would be locked up for 30 years, told me the text from Patrick had great meaning, told me Raff was no longer standing up for me, when he really just admitted that while asleep he could not vouch for me also being asleep, I came to think your story about Patrick was reality."

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  30. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    What are you not seeing? Amanda accused Patick of murdering Meredith. She then voluntarily (no duress whatsoever) wrote a statement confirming this accusation and delivered it to police, calling it a "gift". For the two weeks following this "gift", Patrick was in jail. He was arrested as a direct result of her "gift". Even though she knew this was a lie, and should have understood that the arrest would ruin his life, she did nothing to assist Patrick.

    That is a particularly nasty thing to do.
    Wasn't that statement given the night Amanda was grilled by LE without the interrogation being video/audio taped?
    How many times has a person "confessed" or pointed to a person in these types of pressure cooker questionings because they believe they are led to believe it is the right thing to do.... You and I say would never do something like that, but then I've never been subjected to what Amanda went through that night.

    What I need is some real evidence that AK was in the room when MK was murdered.
    Speaking of mysteries - billions of people past/present, how on earth did I get be on earth and self-aware?

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  32. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMK View Post
    Well, I cannot speak for Amanda, but if I were she, I would have said, "Since you lied to me, told me you knew I was there, told me I would be locked up for 30 years, told me the text from Patrick had great meaning, told me Raff was no longer standing up for me, when he really just admitted that while asleep he could not vouch for me also being asleep, I came to think your story about Patrick was reality."
    Why didn't she say that she told them a "load of rubbish"? Instead, she voluntarily, and without duress or coercion, confirmed the lies she told about Patrick. There's no excuse for that ... simply none. There is absolutely no excuse for leaving Patrick in jail for 2 weeks. This alone tells us that she does not care about how her actions and words destroy lives, and that she will not do anything to assist someone that is suffering as a direct result of her actions. Meredith didn't have a chance with Amanda as her "good friend".

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  34. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldSteve View Post
    Wasn't that statement given the night Amanda was grilled by LE without the interrogation being video/audio taped?
    How many times has a person "confessed" or pointed to a person in these types of pressure cooker questionings because they believe they are led to believe it is the right thing to do.... You and I say would never do something like that, but then I've never been subjected to what Amanda went through that night.

    What I need is some real evidence that AK was in the room when MK was murdered.
    Bravo. Numerous case can be cited where reasonable people confessed to crimes they would never commit, and were later exonnerated by alibis and DNA (as in the case of Peter Reilly in Conn. 1974).

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  36. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldSteve View Post
    Wasn't that statement given the night Amanda was grilled by LE without the interrogation being video/audio taped?
    How many times has a person "confessed" or pointed to a person in these types of pressure cooker questionings because they believe they are led to believe it is the right thing to do.... You and I say would never do something like that, but then I've never been subjected to what Amanda went through that night.

    What I need is some real evidence that AK was in the room when MK was murdered.
    Statements given as a witness could not be used against Amanda. The only statement that was admitted was the "gift" she voluntarily provided, without coercion or even a request from police, on Nov 7.

    Are you viewing the bedroom as the scene of the crime, or the cottage as the scene of the crime? I ask because if we look at the Nancy Cooper trial, evidence is being presented from the car, the bedroom, the front foyer, the location where Nancy was found ... and so on. Should we tell those investigators that they're making a mistake and should narrow the crime scene to only the car, or only the front foyer?

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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    Why didn't she say that she told them a "load of rubbish"? Instead, she voluntarily, and without duress or coercion, confirmed the lies she told about Patrick. There's no excuse for that ... simply none. There is absolutely no excuse for leaving Patrick in jail for 2 weeks. This alone tells us that she does not care about how her actions and words destroy lives, and that she will not do anything to assist someone that is suffering as a direct result of her actions. Meredith didn't have a chance with Amanda as her "good friend".
    From my understanding , ILE suspected Patrick, and coerced Knox to that end. It is clearly they who are responsible for his being jailed (did they not think to check his alibi first? Nope, too busy with their "vision")---and THEY are responsible for the APPALLING treatment this poor man received ( he was beaten, stripped of his clothes---just awful. ) I hope the poor man wins his lawsuit....

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  39. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMK View Post
    Bravo. Numerous case can be cited where reasonable people confessed to crimes they would never commit, and were later exonnerated by alibis and DNA (as in the case of Peter Reilly in Conn. 1974).
    In this case, the DNA confirms Amanda's participation, not exonnerates.

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