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Thread: WARNING:GRAPHIC PHOTOS Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #9

  1. #476
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    Amanda actually uses the word "flashback" to justify her statements ... which fits quite nicely with her admission of being all drugged up.
    I know of no professional literature that treats flashbacks as reliable memories, no more than memories recovered through hypnosis.

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  3. #477
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    I know of no professional literature that treats flashbacks as reliable memories, no more than memories recovered through hypnosis.
    Right, as in the Eileen Franklin case, flashbacks and recovered memory are not deemed reliable evidence.

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  5. #478
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziggy View Post
    UH, no but they detain him and IMMEDIATELY check alibis - and release him. They don't keep him jailed for weeks. We actually care about a persons rights.
    We actually care about a persons rights? So Italy doesn't?
    And people wonder why the word "xenophobia" keeps coming up in this case. Sheesh.



    That's a "tiptoe" mark? Interesting how most people tiptoe on the ball of their foot only, not the arch and/or side of foot...


    (link to picture: http://www.salem-news.com/gphotos/1291492341.JPG )
    Last edited by JBean; 04-05-2011 at 09:17 PM. Reason: removed comment

    Unless specified otherwise and linked, my posts are simply random thoughts of mine, in no particular order, not directed at any post or poster, including but not limited to the ones directly above mine. My opinion only, yours may vary. IMO. JMO. IMHO. JMHO. MOO. Disclaimer, small print, asterisk, and etc.

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  7. #479
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    As I have said before, I give you all a lot of leeway in this thread to post because you all seem to be on the same page in terms of mutual combat, so to speak.
    But when the topic and posting becomes about each other more than the topic at hand ,it has to stop.
    where this post lands is random because it applies to the whole thread.
    Thanks

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  9. #480
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    Quote Originally Posted by ziggy View Post
    In order to do that she would have had to decided while with her hot new Italian lover with beautiful lips, to grab a knife to assault her roomate with and leave to do the deed.

    Choosing someone to bring into your relationship involves finding a person who would want to - I think she had an inkling that MK was not the person to ask this of. So, this makes no sense. She's in her love nest with RS and with no history of any of this behavior, takes a knife from his apartment, leaves with him to go murder her roomate for complaining about her being untidy? And when exactly did it become a sex orgy need for AK? Too many holes, wholly unbelievable and holy crap - people actually buy this.
    Beautiful lips?..lol.. It doesn't have to make sense. Murder never makes sense to me anyway. To me it seems that some people have a problem with the murder scenario so all the evidence must be wrong. I reason the other way around. If the evidence shows that an elephant did it then so be it. Better go out and catch that monster

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  11. #481
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    Paragraph 2 in link ... approximate translation:
    Official Statement regarding DNA Re-Test

    Experts announced today, at the University of Rome Tor Vergata, that there is too little material. This is due to the fact that genetic material on the knife block is very low and can not be retested (it would give inaccurate results). The experts had already said this in previous meetings, but the decision has now been made official. The hook, however, was too deteriorated to be retested.

    http://www.umbria24.it/mez-nessuna-n...usa/33872.html

    This means that the test methods will now be reviewed, and the question of contamination will be addressed. Dr Stefanoni's results have already been reviewed by others, and I expect the test results will again be upheld. Even if the bra clasp is omitted due to corrosion and/or contamination, Amanda is not free and clear. I understand that there is material on the handle, but not enough to test with accurate results. The DNA on the blade was completely used during the first DNA testing.

    Raffaele still has the problem of the bloody footprint on the mat, lack of alibi, unusual statements/diary remarks. Amanda has bigger problems.

    I guess the most crucial DNA is from the blade of the knife, and whether it was a result of contamination. I can't see it being a faulty result ... the results are simply too similar to Meredith's DNA for it to be someone else's DNA. Contamination in the lab looks like the only argument left to be made ... in my opinion.
    Last edited by otto; 04-06-2011 at 02:45 AM.

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  13. #482
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    Since some believe that "there is no evidence", I should probably elaborate on what I mean with Amanda has bigger problems.

    Because broken glass was found on top of Filomina's ransacked clothing and laptop, it was concluded that the break-in was staged. Who had a reason to stage a break-in? Who would want to hide the fact that she came in through the front door? Who was the only person that could have unlocked the front door at the cottage during the time that her roommate was murdered? Why would someone else stage a break in after the murder, and why not stage it at an obvious point of entry: the patio doors or kitchen window? Laura and Filomina were away that night, Amanda had no alibi (claims that she was watching a movie, eating ... and so on at Raffaele's were proven untrue). Amanda had a key, and motive to stage a break-in. That's a big problem.

    Only someone that had a key and wanted to give the impression that she was not home would stage a break-in ... and her declaration about being at the cottage at the time of the murder doesn't help.

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  15. #483
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    Thanks Otto.

    I'm new to studying the case. I agree that the POE would be strange for a burglar to use when there were better windows to break to gain entry to the house. However, I read somewhere, and who knows where after all I've looked at, that it was RG's MO to use rocks, break windows and carry knives to his crime scenes. I'm exploring all theories, but the one I've started with is RG acting alone or with an unknown accomplice. So my question right now is why is it a problem for the broken glass to be on top of the roommate's clothes? I think I read somewhere that it's because said roommate claims she left nothing on the floor. I don't really take her word on remembering that, and it might be possible that Merideth or even Amanda went into the room and used some of the clothes and left them on the floor. I don't know, so can you bring clarity to me about this? Sorry if you've had to do it before in the other 8 threads.

    One article I read also said he'd stolen a flick knife in a crime. Weren't they supposing a flick knife was used with merideth? Same article claims that a recorded jail call picked up him saying that amanda hadn't been there that night. Here's this link

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worl...-sentence.html


    Alicia DeBolt Murder Case Files (interviews, transcripts, etc):
    https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B98...NDEzOGY5&hl=en

    RS's appeal translated:

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1.../edit?hl=en_US

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  17. #484
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    Paragraph 2 in link ... approximate translation:
    Official Statement regarding DNA Re-Test

    Experts announced today, at the University of Rome Tor Vergata, that there is too little material. This is due to the fact that genetic material on the knife block is very low and can not be retested (it would give inaccurate results). The experts had already said this in previous meetings, but the decision has now been made official. The hook, however, was too deteriorated to be retested.

    http://www.umbria24.it/mez-nessuna-n...usa/33872.html

    This means that the test methods will now be reviewed, and the question of contamination will be addressed. Dr Stefanoni's results have already been reviewed by others, and I expect the test results will again be upheld. Even if the bra clasp is omitted due to corrosion and/or contamination, Amanda is not free and clear. I understand that there is material on the handle, but not enough to test with accurate results. The DNA on the blade was completely used during the first DNA testing.

    Raffaele still has the problem of the bloody footprint on the mat, lack of alibi, unusual statements/diary remarks. Amanda has bigger problems.

    I guess the most crucial DNA is from the blade of the knife, and whether it was a result of contamination. I can't see it being a faulty result ... the results are simply too similar to Meredith's DNA for it to be someone else's DNA. Contamination in the lab looks like the only argument left to be made ... in my opinion.
    Thanks. I don't know if you can say one has bigger problems than the other. I always viewed them as having similar problems.

  18. #485
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    Quote Originally Posted by wasnt_me View Post
    Thanks Otto.

    I'm new to studying the case. I agree that the POE would be strange for a burglar to use when there were better windows to break to gain entry to the house. However, I read somewhere, and who knows where after all I've looked at, that it was RG's MO to use rocks, break windows and carry knives to his crime scenes. I'm exploring all theories, but the one I've started with is RG acting alone or with an unknown accomplice. So my question right now is why is it a problem for the broken glass to be on top of the roommate's [Filomina] clothes? I think I read somewhere that it's because said roommate claims she left nothing on the floor. I don't really take her word on remembering that, and it might be possible that Merideth or even Amanda went into the room and used some of the clothes and left them on the floor. I don't know, so can you bring clarity to me about this? Sorry if you've had to do it before in the other 8 threads.

    One article I read also said he'd stolen a flick knife in a crime. Weren't they supposing a flick knife was used with merideth? Same article claims that a recorded jail call picked up him saying that amanda hadn't been there that night. Here's this link

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worl...-sentence.html
    bolded by me

    Filomina was not a slob that left her clothes on the floor or shared them with her roommates. She was a professional, as was Laura ... no, Filomina is not mistaken. As for Amanda going into Filomina's bedroom and playing with her clothes ... she has not claimed that to explain the clothes on the floor or her DNA mixed with Meredith's blood in Filmina's bedroom.

    Rudy does not have a criminal record. I don't know anything about any criminal activites except he was found sleeping in a daycare, and he stole a laptop from a laywers office (think it was a lawyer). He was found with a knife in his pack, one that he stole from the daycare (I believe) but did not use it as a weapon. Instead, he left the building voluntarily.

    Raffaele had a knife fetish, and was known to carry a flick knife. In fact, he had one on him when he was arrested.

    So four years after the murder of a British woman in Italy, the case has grabbed your attention? ... and yes, Raffaele does not provide Amanda with an alibi.

  19. #486
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    Thanks, Otto, all this stuff is So, so convuluted to me because of so much hearsay and different versions of events. It's so hard for me to get the story straight. Earlier today, I was thinking it was Rudy's DNA and stuff in Filomia's room, so you'll have to forgive me in the future if I write conflicting information. I'm just reading too many different things.

    Ah, I heard about it when it came out, but I just never got into it. I stumbled into the threads by happenchance while looking for a case to subscribe to since my Jody and travis case is so slow and a couple others I was following kind of whimpered away in the threads and in the press.

    I just got through rereading that article and I don't see that RG was arrested, either.

    Oh, and I was referring to Rudy when I said a taped phone call in jail recorded him saying Amanda hadnt been at the cottage that night.


    Usually with DNA, I'm always thinking blood, but I was wondering if it were possible that Amanda's DNA got in Meredith's blood and got in F's bedroom because Amanda went in there to close the shutters and after taking a shower. I was thinking she could have picked up blood off the floor in the bathroom onto her feet, maybe.

    Also, I am thinking the window thing has to be staged. My reasoning is that there were wooden shutters and then glass behind that, correct? So RG climbed up there, somehow unlatched the shutter and then threw the rock and kept going into the window? I guess that's possible, but again, wouldn't he have walked around to find an easier window? Know what I mean? I see no reason for RG to stage a break-in unless there was the unlikely case that Meredith did invite him there and he figured someone knew it. But I don't think she did that.

    And what's this I'm reading about a shadowy figure in the garden? This is new within the three days I've been reading, too. I've been up all night each night on on this when I should be sleeping. I got scared tonight, listening to all the sounds in my house. I should put this case on in the daytime.
    Last edited by wasnt_me; 04-06-2011 at 05:14 AM.


    Alicia DeBolt Murder Case Files (interviews, transcripts, etc):
    https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B98...NDEzOGY5&hl=en

    RS's appeal translated:

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1.../edit?hl=en_US

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  21. #487
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    Sorry I am sure this has been posted. but how long is the appeal supossed to take? I cant believe she is still in jail ( I dont believe she is guilty)
    No one said breaking the cycle of abuse would be easy..... But Rewarding it is! Video of My blessings! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oG_H4Tk5gJs

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  23. #488
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    Anyone read this?

    http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/Me...Ron_Hendry.pdf

    If so, what are your ideas?


    Alicia DeBolt Murder Case Files (interviews, transcripts, etc):
    https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B98...NDEzOGY5&hl=en

    RS's appeal translated:

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1.../edit?hl=en_US

  24. #489
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    Quote Originally Posted by wasnt_me View Post
    Thanks, Otto, all this stuff is So, so convuluted to me because of so much hearsay and different versions of events. It's so hard for me to get the story straight. Earlier today, I was thinking it was Rudy's DNA and stuff in Filomia's room, so you'll have to forgive me in the future if I write conflicting information. I'm just reading too many different things.

    Ah, I heard about it when it came out, but I just never got into it. I stumbled into the threads by happenchance while looking for a case to subscribe to since my Jody and travis case is so slow and a couple others I was following kind of whimpered away in the threads and in the press.

    I just got through rereading that article and I don't see that RG was arrested, either.

    Oh, and I was referring to Rudy when I said a taped phone call in jail recorded him saying Amanda hadnt been at the cottage that night.


    Usually with DNA, I'm always thinking blood, but I was wondering if it were possible that Amanda's DNA got in Meredith's blood and got in F's bedroom because Amanda went in there [Filomina's bedroom] to close the shutters and after taking a shower. I was thinking she could have picked up blood off the floor in the bathroom onto her feet, maybe.

    Also, I am thinking the window thing has to be staged. My reasoning is that there were wooden shutters and then glass behind that, correct? So RG climbed up there, somehow unlatched the shutter and then threw the rock and kept going into the window? I guess that's possible, but again, wouldn't he have walked around to find an easier window? Know what I mean? I see no reason for RG to stage a break-in unless there was the unlikely case that Meredith did invite him there and he figured someone knew it. But I don't think she did that.

    And what's this I'm reading about a shadowy figure in the garden? This is new within the three days I've been reading, too. I've been up all night each night on on this when I should be sleeping. I got scared tonight, listening to all the sounds in my house. I should put this case on in the daytime.
    BBM

    Where did you read that Amanda went into Filomina's room to close shutters?

  25. #490
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6angels View Post
    Sorry I am sure this has been posted. but how long is the appeal supossed to take? I cant believe she is still in jail ( I dont believe she is guilty)
    It sure all takes a long time. Final ruling maybe before summer break (July) but probably September.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-a...tory-testimony

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  27. #491
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6angels View Post
    Sorry I am sure this has been posted. but how long is the appeal supossed to take? I cant believe she is still in jail ( I dont believe she is guilty)
    May 21 ... something like that ... for the DNA testing evaluation to be presented to the court.

    How long do appeals take in the US? A couple of years?

    Why couldn't she be in jail, she was convicted of murder.

  28. #492
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    Quote Originally Posted by wasnt_me View Post
    Anyone read this?

    http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/Me...Ron_Hendry.pdf

    If so, what are your ideas?
    Is that another discussion board?

    What exactly is your point? Ideas about what? Can you put it in your own words ... please.
    Last edited by otto; 04-06-2011 at 05:45 AM.

  29. #493
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    Quote Originally Posted by wasnt_me View Post
    Anyone read this?

    http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/Me...Ron_Hendry.pdf

    If so, what are your ideas?
    Yes, we have had a long discussion about Hendry and the other experts on Injustice in Perugia. I and some other believe there is a LOT of weight to the ideas proposed by Hendry ( and Waterbury)---Once you begin to doubt the staged break-in, and once you see that Guede did have an extensive history of break and entries - at least one journalist claims 6 serious crimes in 33 days, covered up by police as he was an informant - the whole thing begins to unravel.
    Had I not read these people, I myself would believe Amanda guilty, as I did for a long, long time...
    Last edited by JBean; 04-06-2011 at 10:00 AM. Reason: specific to member comment removed

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  31. #494
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    One thing I wanted to add: IF it were proven that these "counter-experts" were wrong in their assertions, I am not so invested in innocence that I could not go back to admitting probable guilt. I am merely saying that so many questions have now been raised, which are not being answered satisfactorily, that I can no longer feel confident in the guilt of AK and RS. But I am not one of those who believes that ILE HAVE to be wrong in all.
    For example, much has been made of the fact that "Giobbi saw Amanda swivel her hips when putting on protective shoe covers, and knew she was guilty". First, he only said he was suspicious, and police do use intuition. Second, there was a case in the late '70s in Long Island, where police were investigating a man's murder. The teenage daughter smiled at the detective, and asked him what brand of cologne he was wearing. He instantly became suspicious, and in the end, it was proved that she had in fact hired someone to shoot her father. So what I am saying is that I have real doubts, but am not totally against ILE in this case. Just a clarification.
    Last edited by SMK; 04-06-2011 at 08:42 AM.

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  33. #495
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    I also think the Case for Innocence panel did very badly by Amanda by not advertising more than 4 days prior to the event, not getting a sponsor for refreshments, not getting groups committed to attendance. I know first hand what goes into planning an event, and I was able to pack a ballroom in New York on a Monday night with 350 people. But 3 months of work went into that. Their poor showing revealed mainly poor planning, and was not good for Ms. Knox.

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  35. #496
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    Good question. And that's the problem: NO scenario where AK and RS are among the killers makes any sense whatsoever.
    BBM - that's the crux of my feelings - along with the fact that RG has not implicated AK and RS doing anything with him - before, during, or after the crime.
    Now I'm not an expert in DNA, blood splatter, crime scene analysis, etc... so I leave it to experts to explain it to me in terms I can understand as to what's been found in MK's room to place AK in there at the time of the crime - so far, it's not been done... not even a photo showing marks on AK or RS...

    I'm left to conclude - when in Italy, don't smooch or do cartwheels near LE - least you'll be convicted of a crime.
    Speaking of mysteries - billions of people past/present, how on earth did I get be on earth and self-aware?

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  37. #497
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldSteve View Post
    BBM - that's the crux of my feelings - along with the fact that RG has not implicated AK and RS doing anything with him - before, during, or after the crime.
    Now I'm not an expert in DNA, blood splatter, crime scene analysis, etc... so I leave it to experts to explain it to me in terms I can understand as to what's been found in MK's room to place AK in there at the time of the crime - so far, it's not been done... not even a photo showing marks on AK or RS...

    I'm left to conclude - when in Italy, don't smooch or do cartwheels near LE - least you'll be convicted of a crime.
    Yes, and it's very telling.

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  39. #498
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMK View Post
    One thing I wanted to add: IF it were proven that these "counter-experts" were wrong in their assertions, I am not so invested in innocence that I could not go back to admitting probable guilt. I am merely saying that so many questions have now been raised, which are not being answered satisfactorily, that I can no longer feel confident in the guilt of AK and RS. But I am not one of those who believes that ILE HAVE to be wrong in all.
    For example, much has been made of the fact that "Giobbi saw Amanda swivel her hips when putting on protective shoe covers, and knew she was guilty". First, he only said he was suspicious, and police do use intuition. Second, there was a case in the late '70s in Long Island, where police were investigating a man's murder. The teenage daughter smiled at the detective, and asked him what brand of cologne he was wearing. He instantly became suspicious, and in the end, it was proved that she had in fact hired someone to shoot her father. So what I am saying is that I have real doubts, but am not totally against ILE in this case. Just a clarification.
    I wanted to clarify that while LE certainly often work compellingly with intuition, it must be backed up with very solid evidence. In the Long Island case, there was evidence and a final confession which proved this detective's intuition to be true. I do not see it with Knox.

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  41. #499
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    Quote Originally Posted by otto View Post
    BBM

    Where did you read that Amanda went into Filomina's room to close shutters?
    I'm sorry, I didn't read that. I was just inferring from other things I'd read. I thought I'd read that Filomina was certain that she'd closed her shutters before leaving, and so then I assumed that the shudders had to be open when Amanda arrived home. (if Amanda wasn't involved.) So I assumed that after she saw the bathroom and took a shower, she got blood residue on her feet from the bathroom. Then I assumed that she must have noticed Fil's room was a mess. Then I assumed she walked in there, saw the rock and the shutters and then closed the shutters. I'm assuming she closed them. Maybe she just walked in there and looked around to observe it was a mess without closing the shutters, and that's how she got the DNA and stuff in the room.

    As for the link I asked about with the theory of the single assailant, I was wondering if you or anyone else had read it and lent it any credibility. someone else answered that they had done both.


    Alicia DeBolt Murder Case Files (interviews, transcripts, etc):
    https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B98...NDEzOGY5&hl=en

    RS's appeal translated:

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1.../edit?hl=en_US

  42. #500
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMK View Post
    Yes, we have had a long discussion about Hendry and the other experts on Injustice in Perugia. I and some other believe there is a LOT of weight to the ideas proposed by Hendry ( and Waterbury)---Once you begin to doubt the staged break-in, and once you see that Guede did have an extensive history of break and entries - at least one journalist claims 6 serious crimes in 33 days, covered up by police as he was an informant - the whole thing begins to unravel.
    Had I not read these people, I myself would believe Amanda guilty, as I did for a long, long time...
    With cases like this, I always try to look for ways to prove the person didn't do it. I guess I'm a diehard believer in the US justice system's creed that it's up to the state to prove their case, not the defendent. When I first heard about RG and his insane story about "sitting on the toilet," I figured that he'd acted alone or he had his own accomplice that no one knows about.

    If I go with Hendry's story, I'd say that RG broke in, looking for a place to sleep or waiting for Amanda to get home, since we've heard rumors that he was somehow interested in Amanda. Or, he could have known that MK would be alone because he seemed to know her boyfriend from downstairs. Since much wasn't stolen, I'm guessing he was interested in a place to sleep or in the girls.

    From what I read, it appears that he staked the house out a little bit. Maybe saw no one coming or going for a while and decided to enter through that window somehow. Then, he riles through Fil's room because that's the first room he entered. Then he goes to that bathroom near Fil's room because he's gotta dump. I think THAT'S when MK might have come home (as Hendry's report theorizes) and he got surprised and didn't flush the toilet. It's possible that he could have exited the bathroom right away or he could have stayed in there for a long time, trying to figure out what to do.

    We don't really know if RG has ever done this kind of crime before or sexually assaulted anyone before, do we? I read somewhere that he was a creepy lurker at clubs and bars that made women uncomfortable enough to ask management to throw him out.

    Anyways, maybe the night before (again just theorizing) he saw MK at the club, tried to talk to her. Gleened some info about her, which let him know that Amanda was working the next night and MK would be with friends, then go home. She might have clued him in to what her other roommates were doing the next day, too. I'm guessing she might have talked to him a little and felt a little less guarded because her boyfriend knew him. or she could have been creeped out an avoided him at the club, which pisse him off enough to go to her house.

    Anyways, I agree with the surprised MK idea. And I agree with how Hendry said it happened on the bed and she got jerked to the other side of the room during the fight. I don't think it took 3 people to do that to meredith.

    I read some other hearsay about a shadowy figure that had been lurking in the garden near the cottage for a few days. And I had heard that Amanda had phone calls with RG before and after the murder. Are either of these two things backed by evidence? I read AK phone records on some website but it was never made clear that RG was one of the callers.
    Last edited by wasnt_me; 04-06-2011 at 01:12 PM.


    Alicia DeBolt Murder Case Files (interviews, transcripts, etc):
    https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B98...NDEzOGY5&hl=en

    RS's appeal translated:

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1.../edit?hl=en_US

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