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  1. #1
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    Trial By Ambush

    I heard the phrase "Trial by ambush" bandied about today. . What exactly does this mean and how was it evidenced today? What more can we expect to see in this vein? Will it be allowed in actual trial?

    How does the judge play into this? Can and will the defense anticipate these maneuvers and respond accordingly? How will this affect jurors?

    I saw many posts expressing frustration over this.

  2. #2
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    It is the classic TV lawyer Perry Mason moment. The surprise witness or surprise testimony. In the Florida system of depositions and reciprocal discovery there are not supposed to be any "Perry Mason" moments at trial. No surprises. The evidence and the testimony should be known by both sides going in.

    What they were referring to today is JB and the defense teams habit of playing loose with the discovery rules and trying to hide things until he springs them in court. The big examples for today were some of Dr. Furtons opinions and testimony given today that were not previously voiced in his reports or at deposition. Particularly the part where he went back and changed or researched his answers from deposition, but did not offer any amended report showing his knew findings or opinions. Such as that chart JB was bandying about. That is trial by ambush. Trying to spring some new surprise evidence on the opposing side. It is a huge No No in Florida.

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    Quote Originally Posted by faefrost View Post
    It is the classic TV lawyer Perry Mason moment. The surprise witness or surprise testimony. In the Florida system of depositions and reciprocal discovery there are not supposed to be any "Perry Mason" moments at trial. No surprises. The evidence and the testimony should be known by both sides going in.

    What they were referring to today is JB and the defense teams habit of playing loose with the discovery rules and trying to hide things until he springs them in court. The big examples for today were some of Dr. Furtons opinions and testimony given today that were not previously voiced in his reports or at deposition. Particularly the part where he went back and changed or researched his answers from deposition, but did not offer any amended report showing his knew findings or opinions. Such as that chart JB was bandying about. That is trial by ambush. Trying to spring some new surprise evidence on the opposing side. It is a huge No No in Florida.
    And that therein lies the frustration. If it is a huge No No...once again the defense (and therefore the A's) are breaking the rules and getting away with it. Correct? Will this continue?

    The most frustrating aspect of this case for me is the lying and contempt of court by the A's and no one stopping it. No one! Was is everyone afraid of?! This is about a little baby girl.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pattymarie View Post
    And that therein lies the frustration. If it is a huge No No...once again the defense (and therefore the A's) are breaking the rules and getting away with it. Correct? Will this continue?

    The most frustrating aspect of this case for me is the lying and contempt of court by the A's and no one stopping it. No one! Was is everyone afraid of?! This is about a little baby girl.
    As HHJP said many times throughout the day. Remember this was a hearing where they were all speaking to the judge today, with no jury present. The judge in these hearings is allowing them to perform and misbehave in order to take their full measure. he tells them repeatedly that he does his own research, reads and watches every piece of evidence, and uses it all in his orders and opinions, yet they still do not get it. The reason HHJP allowed JB to present his stuff that he had violated discovery with today is simply because HHJP is not a lay listener. He is a very experienced judge and jurist, who has the ability to mentally filter out the materials that are out of bounds. But at the same time he is having JB build a list for him to watch for in the actual trial. I have faith that the judge has the defense and the A's number. The judge is probably not going to take any radical steps to slam or sanction the defense until they start misbehaving (which we all know they will) in the public trial before the jury.

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    Perhaps a running list of "suspected trial by ambush" tactics would make for interesting reading.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleutherontheside View Post
    Perhaps a running list of "suspected trial by ambush" tactics would make for interesting reading.
    Shall we put George "falling on his sword" and pleading the fifth as the first item.
    When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time. ~ Maya Angelou

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleutherontheside View Post
    Perhaps a running list of "suspected trial by ambush" tactics would make for interesting reading.

    If as "sleuthers" we could come up with everything the defense could possibly try to ambush the State with, maybe we could "thwart" this whole tactic.

    For me today, Cindy, lying, but explaining it with "It was so long ago", "I was traumatized, " " I was on meds" is going to be a GIVEN that the defense must assume when questioning her. The defense needs to be prepared for this (George and Lee, too).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pattymarie View Post
    And that therein lies the frustration. If it is a huge No No...once again the defense (and therefore the A's) are breaking the rules and getting away with it. Correct? Will this continue?

    The most frustrating aspect of this case for me is the lying and contempt of court by the A's and no one stopping it. No one! Was is everyone afraid of?! This is about a little baby girl.
    JA did not lose his temper with CA new testimony. How she now remembers that she put the air fresheners in the car and sprayed a whole bottle of Fabreeze. The SA was not informed of this new testimony since her deposition in 2009 where she said she did not. He had her depo pulled though and she said it was the trauma and meds affecting her memory. She didn't remember then but does now. So...here we are 4/01/2011-depo in 2009. When did this recollection come to her and why didn't the defense make the SA aware of her new testimony? I suspected this was coming from JB as a way of explaining the chloroform levels. JVM confirmed on her show last night that the A's lawyer Lippman said CA was just in JB's office last week while discussing the GA theories. JA kept at the Dr. Furton (sp) to try and get a time line from him as to his new info and when the DT was made aware of it but I did not see him do that with Cindy. He should have. When in that 2 year span did this suddenly come to her and why if the DT did not reveal her testimony to the state is JP allowing it?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by strach304 View Post
    JA did not lose his temper with CA new testimony. How she now remembers that she put the air fresheners in the car and sprayed a whole bottle of Fabreeze. The SA was not informed of this new testimony since her deposition in 2009 where she said she did not. He had her depo pulled though and she said it was the trauma and meds affecting her memory. She didn't remember then but does now. So...here we are 4/01/2011-depo in 2009. When did this recollection come to her and why didn't the defense make the SA aware of her new testimony? I suspected this was coming from JB as a way of explaining the chloroform levels. JVM confirmed on her show last night that the A's lawyer Lippman said CA was just in JB's office last week while discussing the GA theories. JA kept at the Dr. Furton (sp) to try and get a time line from him as to his new info and when the DT was made aware of it but I did not see him do that with Cindy. He should have. When in that 2 year span did this suddenly come to her and why if the DT did not reveal her testimony to the state is JP allowing it?
    I don't think the defense has any real obligation to inform the prosecution of any changes to CA's testimony. CA is among other things a prosecution witness. But as we saw today JA is not a stupid man. And every reasonable observer around here has known that CA would start playing these little testimony games. If we expect it, JA expects it, and the SA's are preparred to deal with it.

    And c'mon JA knows perfectly well how it looks to the jury when the defendants mother suddenly starts "remembering" little details that favor the defense. CA playing her games does not hurt his case. Instead it just makes CA look manipulative like she is, and adds to the juries impressions of guilt for KC.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleutherontheside View Post
    Perhaps a running list of "suspected trial by ambush" tactics would make for interesting reading.

    SOTS it would make for VERY interesting reading!!! The HUGE thing that bugs the living crap out of me is knowing that the DT reads here and uses "our" lawyers' (AZ, etc.) arguments! Evidently they read here that ICA looked ridiculous "playing attorney" while in court so they toned that down a notch today. I really wish the DT wasn't allowed to read here because they are getting their brilliant ideas here at WS!!!!

    ETA: The "trial by ambush" tactics would only give the DT further ideas!
    "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere!" MLK, Jr.


  11. #11
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    HHJP has reminded JB there will be no trial by ambush at every hearing lately because of a multitude of his stupid stunts. It's past ridiculous where he cannot continue to act like he is just inexperienced or confused. All witnesses not just experts had deadlines so any new testimony the DT wanted to use at the hearing today they had an obligation to disclose to the state. Once again JP is telling JB no TBA! I think JB thought he was quite smooth in using CA to explain a reason for the chloroform levels in the trunk. IMO it was planned out this way. What option does the state now have? Impeach poor traumatized, medicated GMA? Have Dr. Vass do another research test with fabreeze and dryer sheets in a car trunk like the pizza and squirrel ones? All in time for the state to refute this nonsense and according to reciprocal discovery turn over their results in time for trial? All the while taking away important time on all the other important issues that haven't even been heard. Yet, JP is going to let JA re-depo Dr. Fulton. JA then has to re confer with Dr. Vass all over again on both the decomp and chl. matters that came up on Florida tax payers dime.

    ETA: It is reminding so much of the Scott Peterson case in Ca. where the prosecutors were scrambling around over bar-b-que sauce and gypsies and got very expensive and took so much focus off of the case. Their words not mine.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by strach304 View Post
    ETA: It is reminding so much of the Scott Peterson case in Ca. where the prosecutors were scrambling around over bar-b-que sauce and gypsies and got very expensive and took so much focus off of the case. Their words not mine.
    Very respectfully snipped... I didn't follow the Peterson case, but didn't his defense end up resting after the prosecution presented their case in chief?
    You can hold back from the suffering of the world. You have free permission to do so and it is in accordance with your nature.
    But perhaps this very holding back is the one suffering you could have avoided.
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    Be not simply good. Be good for something.
    HDT

  13. #13
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    strach304 do you think the State will use CA's testimony today to impeach her at trial? I mean she denied putting the dryer sheets in the car then suddenly remembered today?
    "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere!" MLK, Jr.

  14. #14
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    So are we thinking that the Anthonys are actively scheming with "baez" in order for something like one of the following to help get casey off:

    -Defense brings up protestors GA assaulted/GA threw a dude through a window a long time ago = he can't control his temper = they imply he killed Caylee or something to that effect - he pleads the 5th and they magically have reasonable doubt?

    -Since Cindy has found out a way to magically erase her past statements, she'll continue with the "I was traumatized/on meds" excuse and then she'll have leeway to say any number of things to support a GA=reasonable doubt plan AND she'll be able to cover for various aspects of Casey's lies, etc like saying she put the dryer sheets in the car, etc?

    HAve to say I don't see any of this working, but it instills a strong desire to see the Anthonys brought to justice. They have seriously crossed the line and we don't know the half of what they'll do, it's only the beginning. I hope they are BANNED from the courtroom until their testimony is over.

    Also have to say I did not understand one iota of what the last witness was trying to say. Utterly nonsensical to me. Couldn't tell what he was getting at.
    Justice for GEORGE!

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    Savannahanna

    Quote Originally Posted by strach304 View Post
    HHJP has reminded JB there will be no trial by ambush at every hearing lately because of a multitude of his stupid stunts. It's past ridiculous where he cannot continue to act like he is just inexperienced or confused. All witnesses not just experts had deadlines so any new testimony the DT wanted to use at the hearing today they had an obligation to disclose to the state. Once again JP is telling JB no TBA! I think JB thought he was quite smooth in using CA to explain a reason for the chloroform levels in the trunk. IMO it was planned out this way. What option does the state now have? Impeach poor traumatized, medicated GMA? Have Dr. Vass do another research test with fabreeze and dryer sheets in a car trunk like the pizza and squirrel ones? All in time for the state to refute this nonsense and according to reciprocal discovery turn over their results in time for trial? All the while taking away important time on all the other important issues that haven't even been heard. Yet, JP is going to let JA re-depo Dr. Fulton. JA then has to re confer with Dr. Vass all over again on both the decomp and chl. matters that came up on Florida tax payers dime.

    ETA: It is reminding so much of the Scott Peterson case in Ca. where the prosecutors were scrambling around over bar-b-que sauce and gypsies and got very expensive and took so much focus off of the case. Their words not mine.
    After watching Dr. Vass and Dr. Furton (sp) testifying, what struck me was the difference between the personalities and how they would I believe relate to the jurors. Dr. Vass is more to the point in answers, a working man personna (willing to get out of office and do his own research) and Dr. Furton (sp) seems to take forever to get a question answered. He presents himself with a personna that is strictly acadamia. No warm fuzzies here to endear him to a jury. I almost fell asleep listening to him extrapulate on responses to JB. JMO I've know people to ignore the message because of the messenger.
    Savannahanna

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