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Thread: Ramsey Project Rebuttal (Non Intruder Posters Only)

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeskidbeck View Post
    Tricia, my prayers are with you for a speedy recovery! So glad you had the surgery because, believe it or not, not having the surgery is deadly!
    As for the Ramseys not buying the other JonBenet domains, I think it's pretty simple. Television provided them all the vehicle they needed to promote their spin AND paid them good money to boot. No need for them to spend their money at all.
    Are you referring to being paid for interviews? I've always heard that TV shows don't pay for interviews, because of the free publicity the interview provides.

    However, I came across this statement from an old article about the Ramseys' interview on 20/20 in 2000:

    The parents of murdered 6-year-old JonBenet chose Ms. Walters over such heavy hitters as ABC's Diane Sawyer, CBS's Dan Rather and NBC's Katie Couric and Ann Curry for their first in-depth interview since JonBenet 's death in December 1996.
    Now, the 20/20 episode brought in 20 million viewers and it was the highest-rated episode in three years, so I can see why all the networks wanted John and Patsy to come on their show. Now, if they're all competing against each other, was there some kind of under-the-table offer going on? How did Walters "win" over the others?

  2. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Tricia View Post
    WOW This thread is ROCKIN'. Thanks to the wonderful Websleuth members.

    I had emergency gallbladder surgery so I'm on the mend. The Ramsey curse did not kill. Felt like it was going to but didn't.

    In the next few days I'll get caught up and then we will get this project moving.

    JonBenetRamsey.org is a domain name I own. I would like to put all this info in one place and I'll probably use this domain to make it happen.

    This is just a little thing but it has always bothered me. Why didn't the Ramseys ever guy the JonBenet domains?

    JonBenetRamsey.org was just out there for years and I picked it up. Not sure who owns Jonbenet.org,.com. or .net but I know it's not the Ramseys.

    Again, very small but one of the million things that have nagged me about these people forever.
    Hope you aren't in too much pain Tricia. I had my gallbladder taken out in 1984...when the Surgeons would cut into you about ten inches. The gallstones were extremely painful, and the attacks were horrendous. I had my surgery and the surgeon found a couple of stones in my small intestine. I am happy you got the surgery and please..no heavy lifting.
    ...We have said to ourselves, look, there is never going to be a victory in this, there is no victory...John Ramsey: 6/24/98

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  4. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by eileenhawkeye View Post
    Are you referring to being paid for interviews? I've always heard that TV shows don't pay for interviews, because of the free publicity the interview provides.

    However, I came across this statement from an old article about the Ramseys' interview on 20/20 in 2000:



    Now, the 20/20 episode brought in 20 million viewers and it was the highest-rated episode in three years, so I can see why all the networks wanted John and Patsy to come on their show. Now, if they're all competing against each other, was there some kind of under-the-table offer going on? How did Walters "win" over the others?
    Eileen, it's widely known in the industry that most ethical networks don't pay for the interviews; however, the extras that go along with the interview bring in a great deal of money. By extras I mean photos and home movies. Every interview with the Ramseys brought out new photos and videos. If you have studied Casey Anthony's case at all you know that she made somewhere around $250,000 for photos of Caylee. Since Colorado does not have Sunshine Laws like Florida we don't know what the Ramseys may have earned from JonBenet's photos but considering the hundreds of photos and film that we have seen on tv and the internet, you can bet that they were well compensated!

    ETA: It's my opinion that the Ramseys probably chose Barbara Walters because of her credibility and the fact that she would reach more viewers. After all, they had an agenda and that was to convince the world that they were innocent.
    Last edited by joeskidbeck; 04-08-2011 at 01:45 PM. Reason: added thoughts
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  6. #54
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    Re: the small 8 1/2 shoeprint. Most boys of BR's age would wear a men's shoe, not a child''s size any more. So and 8 1/2 might "fit" the bill. Boys can have big feet compared to the rest of them- they seem to "grow" into them.

    Re: payment for "interviews"- while most legitimate news organizations would not offer payment, the tabloids and tabloid-type TV shows certainly would and do. If not outright cash, they offer lavish hotel stays and expenses, or other things in exchange for the interview. They would take the view that it is OK to pay for the interviewee's time, not that they are paying for what is said. But that is a very blurry line. I think it is very possible that "sensational" testimony would be "rewarded" in some way. I've seen cases where someone has said they "sold their story" to a tabloid because they needed the money and the publication offered X $$$ for their story.
    Last edited by DeeDee249; 04-08-2011 at 03:03 PM.
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  8. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeskidbeck View Post
    Eileen, it's widely known in the industry that most ethical networks don't pay for the interviews; however, the extras that go along with the interview bring in a great deal of money. By extras I mean photos and home movies. Every interview with the Ramseys brought out new photos and videos. If you have studied Casey Anthony's case at all you know that she made somewhere around $250,000 for photos of Caylee. Since Colorado does not have Sunshine Laws like Florida we don't know what the Ramseys may have earned from JonBenet's photos but considering the hundreds of photos and film that we have seen on tv and the internet, you can bet that they were well compensated!

    ETA: It's my opinion that the Ramseys probably chose Barbara Walters because of her credibility and the fact that she would reach more viewers. After all, they had an agenda and that was to convince the world that they were innocent.
    All of JonBenet's pageant and photoshoot pictures were sold to a photo agency by the photographers who took them. The Ramseys didn't own those pictures or videos. When the media wants to use a pageant video of JonBenet, they have to pay the photo agency a licensing fee.

    The pictures that the Ramseys provide of JonBenet during interviews/specials are normal non-pageant pictures of her, and that's why whenever you watch a show about the case and see new normal pictures of JBR, it will always thank the Ramseys at the end.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maikai View Post
    It's not the first case where there was strangulation and then a head bash as overkill....and even a sexual assault with an object.
    I imagine that the particulars of those cases would be a fair sight different from this one.

    The strangulation came first---there were scratch marks on JBR's neck and her eyes had evidence of strangulation......and there looks like two separate rings around her neck. It could have been done slowly. Wecht might have the head bash right---I believe his son is a neurosurgeon. There was only a couple tablespoons of blood in her brain, and no blood outside the large gash. She was probably dead or close to dying when the bash occurred.
    There were no scratch marks, and several pahtologists have talked about the amount of blood in JB's head. Apparently, it was enough for at least two of them to use the word "clot." IDI would have a lot more credibility if they didn't just make things up out of thin air.
    All posts made by me are MY exclusive property, and are NOT to be used or reproduced without my permission. DAVE SMASH THIEVES!

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  11. #57
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    Remember this thread is not for "Intruder" theories. It's for work on the Aphrodite Jones rebuttal.
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  13. #58
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    Here is what I need:

    I need the exact quote that Aphrodite Jones used when she told the bit about Lacy exonerating the Ramseys. Exactly how it went down in the show. Please post it on this thread.

    Cynic, when that is posted can you please post what Stan Garnett said on the Dan Caplis and Craig Silverman show concerning this topic?

    Thank you.

    This is how we are going to open the press release. With this bit of info.

    Thanks everyone. On my end I am contacting people who have connections to Investigation Discovery. Trying to make sure our work is seen by the right people.

    Tricia
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  15. #59
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    Does anyone remember if Jones ever said she tried to contact Stan Garnett about the "exoneration" letter? Or for that matter did she try and contact him for anything to do with this show?

    It's time. I must break down and watch the whole thing all the way through.

    I will need an ambulance after I am through. It will make me so upset my gallbladder will grow back and attack me. I'll be right back in the hospital again.

    Don't say I didn't warn you.
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  17. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tricia View Post
    Does anyone remember if Jones ever said she tried to contact Stan Garnett about the "exoneration" letter? Or for that matter did she try and contact him for anything to do with this show?

    It's time. I must break down and watch the whole thing all the way through.

    I will need an ambulance after I am through. It will make me so upset my gallbladder will grow back and attack me. I'll be right back in the hospital again.

    Don't say I didn't warn you.
    I haven't been able to watch the whole thing yet either. I have been wayching it in 10 minute intervals, seveal days apart, so my head doesn't explode


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  19. #61
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    What I am planning on doing is sending out a press release. To start the press release we will point out how Jones didn't even bother to find out anything from the new D.A. Stan Garnett. Below is the information but when it comes out in the press release it will be much shorter.

    Thanks to Cynic for sending this to me;

    In her show on Investigation Discovery Jones talks about former Boulder D.A. Mary Lacy's letter of exoneration of the Ramseys. Basically the letter said the Ramseys were innocent of any involvement in the death of JonBenet. On a side note what kind of D.A. does this while an investigation is going on? Wouldn't the police be part of the exoneration? Why was the Boulder P.D. involved? Because the letter was crap that's why. Anyway . . .

    In her show Jones does NOT bring up what the NEW Boulder D.A. said about this ridiculous letter.

    Monday Oct. 11th 2010 Boulder District Attorny Stan Garnett ( the person who replaced Mary Lacy) was on the Dan Caplis and Craig Silverman show. Here is the exchange about Lacy's "exoneration"

    Dan Caplis: And Stan, so it would be fair to say then that Mary Lacy’s clearing of the Ramseys is no longer in effect, you’re not bound by that, you’re just going to follow the evidence wherever it leads.

    Stan Garnett: What I've always said about Mary Lacy’s exoneration is that it speaks for itself.
    I've made it clear that any decisions made going forward about the Ramsey case will be made based off of evidence…

    Dan Caplis: Stan, when you say that the exoneration speaks for itself, are you saying that it’s Mary Lacy taking action, and that action doesn't have any particular legally binding effect, it may cause complications if there is ever a prosecution of a Ramsey down the road, but it doesn't have a legally binding effect on you, is that accurate?

    Stan Garnett:
    That is accurate, I think that is what most of the press related about the exoneration at the time that it was issued.

    Craig Silverman: I’d say the headline out of our show, is once again you established out of your questioning of Stan Garnett that that letter (of exoneration) isn't worth the paper it’s written on as far as Stan Garnett is concerned.

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...2&postcount=1:

    If little old beer can collecting housewives can blow this out of the water then why couldn't the fact checkers for Aphrodite Jones?

    She is a disgrace to the truth.
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  21. #62
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    Excellent!!!!
    There are things that we don't want to happen but have to accept, things we don't want to know but have to learn, and people we can't live without but have to let go.

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  23. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tricia View Post
    Thanks to Cynic for sending this to me;
    My pleasure.
    In her show on Investigation Discovery Jones talks about former Boulder D.A. Mary Lacy's letter of exoneration of the Ramseys. Basically the letter said the Ramseys were innocent of any involvement in the death of JonBenet. On a side note what kind of D.A. does this while an investigation is going on? Wouldn't the police be part of the exoneration? Why was the Boulder P.D. involved? Because the letter was crap that's why. Anyway . . .
    For those who are unfamiliar with Lacy's bias:

    Fear of a civil lawsuit, coupled with Mary Lacy’s strong belief in the intruder theory cemented the direction of the DA’s office under her leadership. While many in the general public believe that the Ramseys were exonerated in 2008, the record shows that they were essentially exonerated the moment that Mary Lacy took office.

    "John and Patsy Ramsey have asked the Boulder County district attorney to find another police agency to investigate fresh leads into their daughter JonBenet's Christmas 1996 slaying."
    "If that doesn't happen, the Ramseys may sue to force the Boulder Police Department to turn its case over to another agency, L. Lin Wood, the family's attorney, said Monday."
    Daily Camera, Matt Sebastian, October 29, 2002

    And

    "Wood said he expects to file a civil lawsuit against the Boulder Police Department by the end of the year seeking compensatory damages for the Ramseys, and possibly seeking to transfer the investigation to another law enforcement agency."
    Daily Camera,Katherine Vogt (Associated Press) November 20, 2002

    One month later…

    Based on the above and after consultation with Chief Beckner, I have made a decision to conduct further investigation from within my office, using our investigative resources.
    We will work cooperatively with Lou Smit, the Ramseys, and the Boulder Police Department.
    Please understand that this decision is being made for one reason only, the fact that a violent child murderer is at large.
    Mary Keenan, Letter to Lin Wood, December 20, 2002

    Lin Wood: "Well, I think the timing of the decision on Friday may have been affected by my letter. I did write Mary Keenan. I've been trying for over three and a half years as the attorney for John and Patsy Ramsey to get this case out of the hands of the Boulder Police Department
    NBC Today Show, Katie Couric interview with Lin Wood, Dec 23, 2002

    "Keenan said Monday she agrees with a federal judge (Carnes) in Atlanta that the evidence points to an intruder, not the 6-year-old beauty queen's parents, as the girl's killer."
    Denver Post, Marilyn Robinson, Apr 08, 2003

    "Ramsey attorney L. Lin Wood of Atlanta said Keenan's statement removes the long-standing "umbrella of suspicion" over the couple."
    "This means that the nightmare that John and Patsy Ramsey have lived with, of being falsely accused of the murder of their daughter, is finally over," Wood said. "And, from the lawyer's perspective, the days of anyone accusing my clients of murder are also over."
    Rocky Mountain News, Owen S. Good, Apr 08, 2003

    "But Carnes' ruling was based only on the facts presented by the Ramseys and their lawyer, L. Lin Wood, and Wolf and his lawyer, Darnay Hoffman - and not on a comprehensive review of investigators' 40,000-plus pages of evidence.”
    Rocky Mountain News, Charlie Brennan. Apr 25, 2003

    District Attorney Mary Keenan went public April 7 with her belief that evidence in the JonBenet Ramsey case points to an intruder as the killer - not Patsy Ramsey.
    But sources familiar with Keenan and the case say this isn't a new view for Boulder's top prosecutor. Keenan, in fact, has supported the intruder theory for nearly five years, dating to the summer of 1998, according to the sources.
    It's not only law enforcement sources who say Keenan has long been a proponent of the intruder theory.

    One source involved in those sessions recalls being told by colleagues that Keenan chided Haney for being too tough on Patsy Ramsey.
    "Mary really had her nose in it, and thought that the Ramseys were being really pushed around," said another key law enforcement source.
    Former Boulder police Detective Steve Thomas, who quit the department in 1998, wrote a book detailing his theory that Patsy Ramsey hit JonBenet in a flash of anger over bed-wetting. He eventually reached an out-of-court settlement after they sued him for his comments.
    In one section of his book, he wrote: "Alex Hunter said that he thought Patsy Ramsey was involved. That was more than offset by comments from his staff. Deputy DA Mary Keenan said the body language of John and Patsy wasn't suggestive of deception, and that men were not in a position to judge Patsy Ramsey's demeanor."
    Rocky Mountain News, Charlie Brennan, April 25, 2003
    This time we get it right

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  25. #64
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    For those who may not be aware- Keenan was ML's maiden name. She was Assistant DA under her maiden name in 1996.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

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  27. #65
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    ATTENTION MY FRIEND!!

    If you saw the Aphrodite Jones show can you remember if she commented at any time whether she tried to contact the new Boulder D.A. Stan Garnett??

    Thanks,
    Tricia
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    A side note; on our sister forum Forums for Justice.org Sabrina found an interesting article about Aphrodite Jones and her I.D. story on Anna Nichole Smith. Seems Jones got some of that story wrong as well.

    [ame="http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showpost.php?p=187358&postcount=89"]Forums For Justice - View Single Post - Aphrodite Jones[/ame]
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  30. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by eileenhawkeye View Post
    Are you referring to being paid for interviews? I've always heard that TV shows don't pay for interviews, because of the free publicity the interview provides.

    However, I came across this statement from an old article about the Ramseys' interview on 20/20 in 2000:



    Now, the 20/20 episode brought in 20 million viewers and it was the highest-rated episode in three years, so I can see why all the networks wanted John and Patsy to come on their show. Now, if they're all competing against each other, was there some kind of under-the-table offer going on? How did Walters "win" over the others?
    Media has a little loophole they use to make the statement they don't pay for interviews: they pay for accompanying photos they air during the interviews.

    I don't know that the Ramseys sold ABC the right to air in that show photos to which the Ramseys owned the copyright. It's been a long time since I saw it. But that is one way lots of people are interviewed and make lots of money, even though they aren't "paid" for the interview itself.

    Wonder how much the Ramseys have actually made off of photos aired, published in print, etc., through the years? Maybe the Jones program paid well, too.

    I didn't see the program, but just a quick note to everyone working on this thread bringing the info: Y'ALL ROCK!! MUAH!
    Last edited by KoldKase; 04-11-2011 at 12:29 AM.
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  32. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoldKase View Post
    Media has a little loophole they use to make the statement they don't pay for interviews: they pay for accompanying photos they air during the interviews.

    I don't know that the Ramseys sold ABC the right to air in that show photos to which the Ramseys owned the copyright. It's been a long time since I saw it. But that is one way lots of people are interviewed and make lots of money, even though they aren't "paid" for the interview itself.

    Wonder how much the Ramseys have actually made off of photos aired, published in print, etc., through the years? Maybe the Jones program paid well, too.

    I didn't see the program, but just a quick note to everyone working on this thread bringing the info: Y'ALL ROCK!! MUAH!
    KK, you bring up a great point. Just how much money have the Ramseys made off photos/videos and such.

    It wasn't until the past few years we (as in the general public) became aware of this loophole. So for all we know the Ramseys could have been making a lot of money along the way early on.

    John Ramsey is credited for providing the video in the Jones show. You have to wonder if he was paid for that video.
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    JonBenet's pageant/photoshoot pictures and videos were sold to a photo agency at the very beginning of the case by the photographers who took them. When the media wants to use a pageant/photoshoot picture or video, they pay a licensing fee to the agency. If the Ramseys did make money from JonBenet's videos/pictures, then it had to be from the home videos and normal pictures of her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eileenhawkeye View Post
    JonBenet's pageant/photoshoot pictures and videos were sold to a photo agency at the very beginning of the case by the photographers who took them. When the media wants to use a pageant/photoshoot picture or video, they pay a licensing fee to the agency. If the Ramseys did make money from JonBenet's videos/pictures, then it had to be from the home videos and normal pictures of her.
    There are hundreds of photos, both pageant and family, that we all see every day. There is the possibility that the Ramseys have made hundreds of thousands of dollars from JonBenet's death. Sad.
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeskidbeck View Post
    There are hundreds of photos, both pageant and family, that we all see every day. There is the possibility that the Ramseys have made hundreds of thousands of dollars from JonBenet's death. Sad.
    I can definitely see how the Ramseys made money from JBR's family photos, but how did they make money from her pageant photos? Those pictures were sold to the photo agencies by the photographers who took them. When the media wants to use a pageant picture, they pay the photo agency. Unless John Ramsey is now the CEO of one of those photo agencies, I'm not seeing how he made money from JBR's pageant pictures.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eileenhawkeye View Post
    I can definitely see how the Ramseys made money from JBR's family photos, but how did they make money from her pageant photos? Those pictures were sold to the photo agencies by the photographers who took them. When the media wants to use a pageant picture, they pay the photo agency. Unless John Ramsey is now the CEO of one of those photo agencies, I'm not seeing how he made money from JBR's pageant pictures.
    Unless the photographers copyrighted the photos before JonBenet's death, the R's would have owned the rights. We have no way of knowing who made the money from her pageant photos. These proceeds could have gone to both the Ramseys and/or the photographers. See link below for info:

    http://www.weddingphotographydirecto...rotection.aspx
    "This Time We Get it Right!"

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary.
    For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." Stuart Chase

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  42. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeskidbeck View Post
    Unless the photographers copyrighted the photos before JonBenet's death, the R's would have owned the rights. We have no way of knowing who made the money from her pageant photos. These proceeds could have gone to both the Ramseys and/or the photographers. See link below for info:

    http://www.weddingphotographydirecto...rotection.aspx
    The photographers did sell their pictures of JonBenet:

    The month after her death, a photographer named Randy Simons, who had been hired by the Ramseys in June 1996 to take photographs of JonBenet in her pageant clothes, sold his JonBenet portfolio to Sygma Photo Agency for $7,500.
    Mark Fix took pictures of JonBenet at her pageants and he sold them too:

    http://www.markfixphotography.com/38...owimage=284539

    Copyright: People Magazine/Mark Fix/Zuma Press
    Crown Shot of JonBenet Ramsey which signaled the launch of a worldwide media blitz in 1997.
    They sold their pictures to photo agencies, like Zuma:

    Since that fateful 1996 Christmas, ZUMA Press has doggedly pursued every lead and avenue to hopefully find the truth and put this sad story to rest, working on assignment for media all over the world on the ongoing saga and supplying images thru there wire service to publications everywhere

    For the whole story come to ZUMA for exclusive broadcast quality video footage as well as the largest comprehensive collection of photographs of JonBenét herself.
    Anytime you see a pageant picture of JBR, it will say underneath it (c) Mark Fix or Randy Simons. That means that Mark Fix and Randy Simons owned the copyright to the pictures, until they gave them to Zuma, not the Ramseys.
    Last edited by eileenhawkeye; 04-11-2011 at 01:05 PM.

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  44. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by eileenhawkeye View Post
    All of JonBenet's pageant and photoshoot pictures were sold to a photo agency by the photographers who took them. The Ramseys didn't own those pictures or videos. When the media wants to use a pageant video of JonBenet, they have to pay the photo agency a licensing fee.

    The pictures that the Ramseys provide of JonBenet during interviews/specials are normal non-pageant pictures of her, and that's why whenever you watch a show about the case and see new normal pictures of JBR, it will always thank the Ramseys at the end.


    Eileen,

    I am 9 days late....
    There are things that we don't want to happen but have to accept, things we don't want to know but have to learn, and people we can't live without but have to let go.

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  46. #75
    Only personal family photos belong to the Ramseys. I am sure that John got paid for those photos, but not for the interviews from the network channels.

    As for the National Enquiror lawsuit, it was settled with the stipulation that the Ramseys give the NE an interview to "clear up" the libelous claims made by the magazine. That is when Patsy made the NE journalists Shamrock Cookies, LOL!
    ...We have said to ourselves, look, there is never going to be a victory in this, there is no victory...John Ramsey: 6/24/98

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