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Thread: Ramsey Project Rebuttal (Non Intruder Posters Only)

  1. #26
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    I've long struggled with the use of the word "beheaded" in the ransom note.

    I found these lyrics to a song "In a Darkened Room" by a death metal group called "Beheaded" from Malta in 1995.


    In a darkened room
    Beyond the reach of God�s faith
    Lies the wounded, the shattered
    remains of love betrayed
    And the innocence of a child is bought
    and sold
    In the name of the damned
    The rage of the angels left silent
    and cold

    Forgive me please for I know not
    what I do
    How can I keep inside the hurt
    I know is true

    Tell me when the kiss of love
    becomes a lie
    That burns the scar of sin too deep
    To hide behind this fear of running
    unto you
    Please let there be light
    In a darkened room

    All the precious times have been put
    to rest again
    And the smile of the dawn
    Brings tainted lust singing my requiem
    Can I face the day when I�m tortured
    in my trust
    And watch it crystalize
    While my salvation, it crumbles to dust

    Why can�t I steer the ship before
    it hits the storm
    I�ve fallen into the sea but still
    I swim for shore

    Tell me when the kiss of love
    becomes a lie
    That burns the scar of sin too deep
    To hide behind this fear of running
    unto you
    Please let there be light
    In a darkened room

    More lyrics: http://www.lyricsfreak.com/s/skid+row/#share

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  3. #27
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    "The reasoning that IDI's have given for the "strangulation-then-head-bash theory" is that the intruder wanted to make sure JonBenet was dead. "

    If "they" are still promoting JMK or his evil twin intruder then reflect back on what he said. JMK said he killed Jonbenet so that she would die alone because he couldnt remove her from the basement. Im not espousing this theory just throwing it out there.
    The best way to find out if you can trust somebody is to trust them. Hemingway

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  5. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonderllama View Post
    Hearing that from Dr Wecht speaks volumes.
    Very disturbing.
    To me it's volumes of dribble. This man and others like him in his field have had their hay day and they have lost respect from a great many members of the scientific and legal community as they write books and make money yammering away. They are "pundits" now of course, but like Henry Lee, he may not be that big of a deal to jurors and they are the ultimate triers of fact. I don't put much stock in the high profile "make a buck" dudes.
    __________________
    Disclaimer: I have a JD, but I am not licensed to practice. Therefore, do not interpret anything contained in my posts as legal advice - they are my personal opinion only.

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  7. #29
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    My apologies for being MIA. I became very sick again. I'm on the mend.

    Here is my letter to Aphrodite Jones.

    To:Aphrodite Jones
    aphrodite.jones@yahoo.com


    April 4, 2011
    Dear Ms. Jones,

    My name is Tricia Griffith. I own Websleuths.com and Forums for Justice.org. The other night I watched the Investigation Discovery Channel about the murder of Jonbenet Benet Ramsey, and to say the show was a disappointment is an understatement, mainly because it was filled with outright lies. These lies, cover-ups, and distortions about the Ramsey case have gone on for years, and it’s long overdue to set the record straight. Soon I will be sending out a press release announcing our (Webslueths and Forums for Justice) latest project, which will involve taking a transcript of your show and showing, line by line, how the show:

    • misrepresented the evidence;
    • suppressed true evidence;
    • didn't reveal facts;
    • and out-and-out lied.
    Your biggest mistake was aligning yourself with Michael Tracey. Forums for Justice.org and its members prevented the showing of one of his "documentaries" in the U.S. by uncovering one of his most outrageous lies. If you want to know more about how we exposed him, here’s the link to the Michael Tracey Forum:
    [ame="http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=249"]The Truth About Colorado University Journalism Professor Michael Tracey - Forums For Justice[/ame]


    I would suggest you start at the top of the page of the Michael Tracey forum and read all the way through; then you will soon realize what a mistake it was for you to have Mr. Tracey as one of your "experts." Also please read an article by Tony Ortega about Michael Tracey. It’s very revealing.

    [ame="http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=7534"]Tony Ortega Article - Forums For Justice[/ame]


    I hope that after you see just how easily we are able to prove your show was wrong on so many levels that you will have the decency to do another show that presents the truth. Until then, I will be telling my 35,000+ members (as well as hundreds of thousands of people who read only at Websleuths and Forums For Justice) about your credibility or lack thereof.

    I'm sorry, because at one time I believed you had investigative skills and told the truth. I loved your books. Not anymore. In my opinion based on the sloppy work done on the Ramsey show, you are no longer the least bit credible. In the next few weeks I will reveal to everyone how and why I came to this conclusion.
    Sincerely,
    Tricia Griffith
    Owner/Websleuths.com and Forumsforjustice.org
    tgrif@xmission.com
    Last edited by Tricia; 04-08-2011 at 10:41 AM.
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    ************************************************** **************************************

    Tricia Griffith
    tgrif@xmission.com
    6300 N. Sage Wood Drive
    Suite H # 214
    Park City UT
    84098

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  9. #30
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    Dear Websleuths Members,

    It has been brought to my attention that our Aphrodite Jones Rebuttal Thread is turning into an IDI thread.

    I would respectfully ask that all "Intruder" posters NOT post on this thread. This thread is for research and links.

    Feel free to start your own thread if there is a topic you want to discuss that you have read on this thread.

    But, this thread is only for Non Intruder posters to help with our project.

    Thank you,
    Tricia
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    ************************************************** **************************************

    Tricia Griffith
    tgrif@xmission.com
    6300 N. Sage Wood Drive
    Suite H # 214
    Park City UT
    84098

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  11. #31
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    Tricia, the synopsis/case profile and various video clips can be seen here:
    http://investigation.discovery.com/t...et-ramsey.html

    I thought this might be handy for the rebuttal.
    "This Time We Get it Right!"

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary.
    For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." Stuart Chase

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  13. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeskidbeck View Post
    Tricia, the synopsis/case profile and various video clips can be seen here:
    http://investigation.discovery.com/t...et-ramsey.html

    I thought this might be handy for the rebuttal.
    Thank you. This is perfect.
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    ************************************************** **************************************

    Tricia Griffith
    tgrif@xmission.com
    6300 N. Sage Wood Drive
    Suite H # 214
    Park City UT
    84098

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  15. #33
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    Do you really think she'll care...........

    Journalists don't care about the real thing these days anymore,it's about what sells not about the truth,things have changed 100% in this business,it's just a money making machine...I stopped following the news and reading newspapers long ago in disgust.

    Being a journalist used to be about passion,digging,DISCOVERING.Not anymore.It's just a machine.Don't think we can beat that.

    They KNOW what they are selling.They know exactly that what they are showing is not the real thing.Yes you can remind them how wrong it is but don't think they'll care.Those days are over.They write and publish garbage,don't care about who the source is as long as it sells.

    It's all about the commercials.
    There are only two mistakes one can make along the road to truth; not going all the way, and not starting.
    Buddha


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  17. #34
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    I also feel as soon as LW gets wind of ANY televised report on this case, he "intervenes" by reminding the host that he is willing to aggressively pursue anyone who publicly suggests the Rs had anything to do with the death of their daughter. Don't underestimate that threat- it is enough for all but the most fearless of hosts to balk, back down and present a watered down concoction of all the misrepresentations, falsehood, and out-and-out lies that simply will not go away. Obviously, there are many people who do not want them to go away. Even today, some people hear about this case for the first time. They hear the lies and mistakes and that is ALL they hear unless they do some research on their own.
    We are a public that has become insensitive to suffering, even that of the innocent. We are bombarded with stories in the news- horrific abuse of children. Just last night- a child rapist, found mentally incompetent to stand trial for his crime, is about to be FREED because apparently he is now "no longer a danger". Right. Will the courts NEVER learn there is NO rehabilitation for pedophiles- there is NO cure.
    The people with the power to put and end to it are clueless and never blame any one for anything they do.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

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  19. #35
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    Hey Everyone,

    My apologies but I am having serious gallbladder issues. This project will not get off the ground as fast as I would like.

    Feel free to take apart the show on this thread. Find a lie, or misrepresentation, post it here, then post the rebuttal.

    Only if you have time. Do not feel the least bit obligated. I'll be back as soon as I can.

    Thanks again,
    Tricia
    `````````````````

    JOIN US EVERY THURSDAY NIGHT FOR TRUE CRIME RADIO ON IHEART. CLICK HERE THURSDAYS 8 PM EASTERN FOR THE LINK TO THE SHOW, TO JOIN OUR NEW CHATROOM, AND FOR SHOW ARCHIVES! DON'T FORGET CHAT OPENS THURSDAYS 7:30 EASTERN



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    |





    ************************************************** **************************************

    Tricia Griffith
    tgrif@xmission.com
    6300 N. Sage Wood Drive
    Suite H # 214
    Park City UT
    84098

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  21. #36
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    (This is a repeat of the information from my thread, but I thought it would be good to have it here as well.)
    • Open window
    Could have been left open by the Ramseys:
    JOHN RAMSEY: I don't really remember. I mean, part of what is going on you're in such a state of disbelief this can even happen. And the, you know, the window had been broken out. And you say hah, that's it. But it was a window that I had used to get into the house before. It was cracked and open a little bit. It wasn't terribly unusual for me. Sometimes it would get opened to let cool air in because that basement could get real hot in winter. So it was like, you know, after I thought about it, I thought it was more of an alarming situation how it struck me at the time. It was still sort of explainable to me that it could have been left open.
    John Ramsey, 1998 interview

    • Scuff mark on wall
    Could have been left by John when he “broke in” in the summer of 1996.

    TT: OK. But on the outside you’ve got that kind of skinny narrow window well. Did you have an difficulty sliding into that or sliding down the wall?
    JR: Yeah, well, as I recall, I did it at night and I had a suit on, and I took my suit off and did it in my underwear. But, it’s not easy, I mean you can get in that way, you get dirty, but.
    TT: It’s not a graceful way to get in.
    JR: No, no.
    TT: It’s difficult because of the angles.
    JR: Right.
    TT: All right.
    ST: Tom, let me just ask John this. Do you sit down and slide through, buttocks first if you will, through a window like that or, do you recall how you went through the actual window, John?
    JR: I don’t I mean, I don’t remember. Seems like, I mean, I don’t remember, but I think I would probably gone in feet first.
    ST: Feet first, backwards?
    JR: Yeah.
    ST: And when you went through in your underwear, were you wearing shoes or?
    JR: I still had my shoes on, yeah.
    ST: And were those with a suit, were they business shoes.
    John Ramsey, 1997 interview

    • Suitcase with glass on it
    JR or FW may have put the glass on the suitcase.

    JR: Ah, well, I remember they took me aside, and we sat in John Andrew’s room which is the one next to JonBenet’s and she went through what I should do when we talked to the caller and I must insist that I talk to JonBenet and that we need until 5 o’clock to raise the money. I’d actually called my (inaudible) and arranged for the money. Ah, and I think we had by that time started to wonder if one of the housekeepers might be involved. And there was some activity around that direction. We waited until past 11 and then we, and then I think we were in the living room and Linda said why don’t you take someone and look through the house and see if there’s anything you notice that’s unusual. And Fleet and I, Fleet was standing there and said he’d go with me. And we went down to the basement, went into the train room, which is, you know, the train set is, and that’s really the only window that’s, would let in entrance into he basement. And actually I’d gone down there earlier that morning, into that room, and the window was broken, but I didn’t see any glass around, so I assumed it was broken last summer. I used that window to get into the house when (inaudible) I didn’t have a key. But the window was open, about an eighth of an inch, and just kind latched it. So I went back down with Fleet, we looked around for some glass again, still didn’t see any glass. And I told him that I thought that the break came from when I did that last summer and then, then I went from there into the cellar.
    John Ramsey, 1997 interview

    So I went down to the basement. I went into this room with Fleet. I explained to him that this window had been cracked open and I closed it. That the window was broken, but I think it was broken by me once before. We got down on our hands and knees looking for some glass just to see.
    LOU SMIT: What did you find?
    JOHN RAMSEY: I think we found a few fragments of glass not enough to indicate that it was a fresh break.
    LOU SMIT: What did you do with those fragments?
    JOHN RAMSEY: We might have put them on the ledge, if I remember. It really wasn't much. We had only found one or two. We might have put them up here on the ledge.
    LOU SMIT: Could you have put them on the suitcase?
    JOHN RAMSEY: Ahhhh, it's possible but I don't remember doing that.
    LOU SMIT: Was the suitcase, when you came back, in the same spot it was when you had been?
    JOHN RAMSEY: I think I moved it to see or to look for glass then. But I think it was where I left it, where it was when I was down there before.
    John Ramsey, 1998 interview

    • Fibers inside suitcase consistent with fibers on JonBenet
    Not necessarily.

    While AJ is content to talk about fiber evidence which is questionable enough to cause a dispute between two labs, there is no mention of other fiber evidence, such as the following:
    Q. (By Mr. Levin) Mr. Ramsey, it is our belief based on forensic evidence that there are hairs that are associated, that the source is the collared black shirt that you sent us that are found in your daughter's underpants, and I wondered if you –
    A. B******t. I don't believe that. I don't buy it. If you are trying to disgrace my relationship with my daughter --
    John Ramsey, 2000 Interview

    Q. And CBI had at one point come up with a conclusion that there was a consistency between fibers found on a blanket in the suitcase that matched fibers on JonBenet's body or were consistent with, is that the right term?
    A. I heard Mr. Smit and Mr. DeMuth refer to that but I didn't hear Trujillo ever offer a report or an explanation concerning that.
    Q. But the FBI disagreed with the CBI, didn't they?
    Steve Thomas Deposition (Wolf civil case)

    Q. Was the conflict between the CBI report and the FBI report with respect to those fibers, the fibers that are described here found on the front and back of JonBenet's shirt, on her body in the vaginal area, the duct tape on her mouth, and the hand ligature, to your knowledge, was that conflict ever resolved while you were involved in the investigation?
    A. No.
    Lou Smit Deposition (Wolf civil case)

    FBI analysis: FBI examiners said the fibers on JonBenet came from a source other than the pillow sham and comforter
    Rocky Mountain News, May 4, 2001

    • Unexplained footprints made by a little known brand of boot.
    Hi-Tec is a popular brand in the hiking community and according to Steve Thomas, it is popular in law enforcement circles as well.

    The company currently employs approximately 500 employees and generates global sales of more than US $250 million. Hi-Tec Specializes in light weight hiking footwear and has some of the best technology in the industry. Founded in 1974.

    BTW, I know where I’ve heard this “line” about the rare and exotic Hi-Tec footwear before:
    It has never been made public, but in the Ramsey home in the small cellar where JonBent’s body was left, two different footprints were found. They were made at or near the time of the killing and strengthened suspicions that two people might have been involved. One of the footprints was made by a rare Hi-Tec boot.
    "Who Killed the Beauty Queen, Prime Suspect." Documentary, 2004, Michael Tracey

    • Two different sets of footprints were found in the basement.
    • This unidentified footwear impression is not linked to anyone in the Ramsey family.
    This is meaningless, as the footprints could have been innocently left by any number of people who were in the wine cellar prior to the crime.

    Moreover, the Ramseys could have simply walked out of the home with the footwear that left the impressions in the wine cellar, or the footwear could have been removed by Pam Paugh during her “raid” on the home.

    The Hi-Tec boot print became one of the biggest questions of the investigation. Since Hi- Tecs are popular among cops, a year after the murder I became convinced that a sight-seeing law enforcement officer stepped somewhere he or she shouldn't have on December 26 and didn't want to admit it.
    Detective Ron Gosage had the impossible job of trying to identify the origin of the boot print, a nightmare assignment if there ever was one. He contacted more than four hundred people, even construction workers who had been in the house five years ago, but did not find the matching print.
    I doubted that any member of the Ramsey family would admit to owning a pair of Hi-Tecs, whether they did or not, but Detective Gosage had to ask them. That alerted Team Ramsey, and the defense lawyers and our DA's office soon began insisting that the unknown boot print was left behind by the intruder.
    What they didn't know was that lab technicians had found not just one but three different unidentified shoe prints in that little room-the main print and two less pronounced impressions that overlapped each other. We considered that a positive development, for how likely would it be that three intruders carried the body into the room? And the
    possibilities were great that the print was totally unrelated to the murder. Just because something is found at the site of a murder doesn't mean it is part of the crime.
    JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation, Steve Thomas, page 265

    • The Hi-Tec boot is not linked to anyone in the family.
    Burke owned Hi-Tec footwear.
    “Fleet White came in to talk to me and Beckner,” Koby told Hunter. “White wants you off the case. He says you leaked stuff to one of the tabloids after you met with him last year.” Hunter remained silent. “He’s on the warpath, and he’s threatening to see the attorney general.” Koby said that White refused to cooperate with the police as long as Hunter was still on the case. In one conversation with detectives, White had even teased the officers: “What would you say if I told you the Ramseys owned Hi-Tec shoes?”
    Perfect Murder, Perfect Town, Lawrence Schiller, page 593

    The shoe imprint found near JonBent’s body was the second piece of evidence. Ron Gosage had compiled a list of more than six hundred people who had been in the Ramseys’ house during the six months prior to JonBent’s death. He had gotten in touch with more than four hundred of those people, and not one of them had ever worn or owned that kind of Hi-Tec hiking shoe. The imprint was of the “poon”—the area on the sole at the heel where the brand name is stamped. The size of shoe couldn’t be determined from the imprint, since the poon is the same size in all shoes, the better to advertise brands.
    Perfect Murder, Perfect Town, Lawrence Schiller, page 746

    Q. We have been provided, and again, one of the sources of this information is confidential grand jury material I can tell you in the question, but we have been provided information from two sources that your son Burke, prior to the murder of your daughter, owned and wore Hi-Tec boots that had a compass on them, which makes them distinctive. Do you recall -- if you don't recall that they actually were Hi-Tec, do you remember Burke having boots that had a compass on the laces?
    A. Vaguely. I don't know if they were boots or tennis shoes. My memory is they were tennis shoes, but that is very vague. He had boots that had lights on them and all sorts of different things.
    Q. But you do have some recollection that he had some type of footwear that had compasses attached to them?
    A. I don't, I don't specifically remember them, but my impression is that he did, in my mind, yeah. But my impression was that they were tennis shoes.
    Q. Sneakers?
    A. Sneakers. Yeah. Ask Burke if he remembers it. I said, ask Burke, perhaps he -- well, we could certainly ask Burke.
    John Ramsey, 2000 Interview

    Q. Have you, whether it was before the interview in 1998 or subsequent to the interview in 1998, have you personally made attempts to find possible sources for the Hi-Tec shoe impression?
    A. You mean like ask around if anybody had –
    Q. Pick up the phone and call some friends, for example.
    A. I didn't, no.
    Q. Had you at any time, for example, some of the kids, like the Colby kids ever come over, did you ever go and just pick up the phone or walk across the alley and say, do you guys have Hi-Tec shoes? Did you ever do anything like that?
    MR. WOOD: You are assuming she may have learned about it at the time she still lived there. She told you she wasn't sure when she first learned that.
    THE WITNESS: No, I did not call the Colbys to ask if their children had –
    Q. (By Mr. Levin) Whether it was from Boulder or Atlanta?
    A. Right.
    Q. Okay. Did you sit down and discuss with Burke at any length whether or not he ever had Hi-Tec shoes?
    A. No.
    Q. Did it cross your mind that he might be the source of that, for the Hi-Tec shoes?
    A. No. Because my understanding was that it was an adult footprint. He was nine years old at the time.
    Q. Do you know the source of your belief that it was an adult's foot, footprint?
    A. Whoever told me about it or wherever I learned it in the first place.
    Q. Did you get any details concerning how much of a shoe impression was present?
    A. No. It was just a footprint.
    Q. Did you take that to, to be a full footprint, and by that I mean like a shoe, a complete shoe impression?
    A. That is what I imagined, yes.
    Q. And that, whether you were told that directly or you just assumed that, you believe is the source of your belief that it was an adult's shoe?
    A. Yes.
    Q. You have been asked about whether or not anyone in your family owns Hi-Tec shoes or ever owned Hi-Tec shoes?
    A. Yes.
    Q. And I am not restating a question, Mr. Wood. And do you recall you said no one ever did?
    A. Yes.

    Q. Do you recall a period of time, prior to 1996, when your son Burke purchased a pair of hiking boots that had compasses on the shoelaces? And if it helps to remember –
    A. I can't remember.
    Q. Maybe this will help your recollection. They were shoes that were purchased while he was shopping with you in Atlanta.
    MR. WOOD: Are you stating that as a fact?
    MR. LEVIN: I am stating that as a fact.
    Q. (By Mr. Levin) Does that help refresh your recollection as to whether he owned a pair of shoes that had compasses on them?
    A. I just can't remember, I bought so many shoes for him.
    Q. And again, I will provide, I'll say, I'll say this as a fact to you, that, and maybe this will help refresh your recollection, he thought that -- the shoes were special because they had a compass on them, his only exposure for the most part to compasses had been in the plane and he kind of liked the idea of being able to point them different directions. Do you remember him doing that with the shoes?
    A. I can't remember the shoes. I remember he had a compass thing like a watch, but I can't remember about the shoes.
    Q. You don't remember him having shoes that you purchased with compasses on them?
    MR. WOOD: She will tell you that one more time. Go ahead and tell him, and this will be the third time.
    THE WITNESS: I can't remember.
    Q. (By Mr. Levin) Okay. Does it jog your memory to know that the shoes with compasses were made by Hi-Tec?
    MR. WOOD: Are you stating that as a fact?
    MR. LEVIN: Yes. I am stating that as a fact.
    THE WITNESS: No, I didn't know that.
    Q. (By Mr. Levin) I will state this as a fact. There are two people who have provided us with information, including your son, that he owned Hi-Tec shoes prior to the murder of your daughter.
    MR. WOOD: You are stating that Burke Ramsey has told you he owned Hi-Tec shoes?
    21 MR. LEVIN: Yes.
    MR. WOOD: He used the phrase Hi-Tec?
    MR. LEVIN: Yes.
    MR. WOOD: When?
    MR. LEVIN: I can't, I can't give you the source. I can tell you that I have that information.
    MR. WOOD: You said Burke told you.
    MR. LEVIN: I can't quote it to you for reasons I am sure, as an attorney, you are aware.
    MR. WOOD: Just so it is clear, there is a difference between you saying that somebody said Burke told them and Burke telling you because Burke has been interviewed by you all December of 1996, January of 1997, June of 1998.
    Are you saying that it is within those interviews?
    MR. LEVIN: No.
    MR. WOOD: So he didn't tell you, he told somebody else you are stating as a fact because I don't think you all have talked to him other than those occasions, have you?
    MR. KANE: Mr. Wood, we don't want to get into grand jury information.
    Okay?
    MR. WOOD: Okay.
    MR. KANE: Fair enough?
    MR. LEVIN: I am sorry, I should have been more direct. I thought you would understand --
    Q. (By Mr. Levin) Fleet Junior also says that he (Burke) had Hi-Tec shoes.

    Q. Okay. Is this the first time that you've heard that Burke says that he had Hi-Tec?
    A. Yes, it is.
    Q. This is the very first time?
    A. Yes.
    Q. When you said in your book and then you said at other times too that you didn't own either brand –
    MR. WOOD: Hold on. If you have got a reference of the book.
    MR. KANE: I'm sorry. Page 232.
    MR. WOOD: And then you said at other times, too. Be more specific to it.
    MR. KANE: Okay. Well, I will stick to the book.
    Q. (By Mr. Kane) But I don't think it is any big secret that you've said that a bunch of times.
    16 A. I don't remember –
    MR. WOOD: Okay. What is the question?
    Q. (By Mr. Kane) When you made that statement in your book -- I mean, maybe I ought to authenticate. You wrote this book, is that –
    A. Sure.
    MR. WOOD: We are not asking you to authenticate it. We are just asking you to refer us to the page.
    Patsy Ramsey, 2000 Interview

    Hi-Tec Sports will launch hikers promo
    MODESTO, Calif. - Hi-Tec Sports USA will step up the marketing of its new children's outdoor hiking boot with an incentive campaign centered around the 500th anniversary of Columbus' voyage to the New World.
    The company plans to offer posters, stickers and other amenities as part of a Navigators' Club that children can join when they purchase an item in the new Navigators' series.
    Hi-Tec unveiled an outdoor boot called the Columbus as part of the series. The shoe features a compass tied to the laces. It comes in mochaspruce and navy, priced to retail at $44.95.
    Hi-Tec will coordinate the club membership in Modesto and will send promotional posters with new orders. Details of the promotion will be offered to children in product boxes.
    David Pompel, marketing manager, said he expects the promotion to spur children's sales. He reported company-wide sales for Hi-Tec should grow by 60 percent this year.
    "When the kids get something in the box, they get excited," he said. Pompel added that Hi-Tec's rugged outdoor look is growing more popular as children focus on the environment.
    "We're getting into department stores where the athletic look is dying. We try to make ties to positive values like recycling and the environment."
    Footwear News, July 29, 1991

    The Ramseys denied any connection to Hi-Tec footwear until Grand Jury testimony proved otherwise.

    Then Smit asked the Ramseys about the stun gun. John Ramsey said that they never owned one. Ramsey thought he remembered being given a videotape on self-defense by Spy World, a high-tech security outlet in southern Florida, which might have included a segment on the use of stun guns. The family didn’t wear or own Hi-Tec shoes, he said.
    Perfect Murder, Perfect Town, Lawrence Schiller, page 466

    Notice, however, that years after the Grand Jury concluded, the myth that the Ramseys were not connected to Hi-Tec footwear persisted and was even presented as fact in the Wolf v Ramsey civil case.

    Q. Is there any evidence that any member of the Ramsey family had ever owned a logo Hi-Tec boot or shoe?
    A. There is no evidence that I know of that anyone in that family owned that type of shoe.
    Lou Smit, Deposition (Wolf civil case)

    “Plaintiff, of course, argues that any evidence suggesting an intruder was staged by defendants. Even assuming that all the above evidence could have been staged, however, defendants point to other evidence for which a theory of contrivance by them seems either impossible or highly implausible. First, defendants note the existence of several recently-made unidentified shoeprints containing a "HI-TEC" brand mark were found in the basement imprinted in mold growing on the basement floor. (SMF 151-152; PSMF 151-152.) Defendants do not own any "HI-TEC" brand shoes and none of their shoes match the shoeprint marks. (SMF 153; PSMF 153.) Likewise, another similar partial shoeprint was found near where JonBenet's body was found. (SMF 155; PSMF 155.) The owner of the "HI-TEC" shoe that made the footprints at the murder scene has never been identified. (SMF 154, 155; PSMF 154, 155 n addition, on the wine-cellar door, there is a palm print that does not match either of defendants' palm prints. (SMF 156; PSMF 156.) The individual to whom it belongs has never been identified. (SMF 156; PSMF 156.)
    Of course, the existence of these shoeprints and palm print is not dispositive, as they could have been made prior to the time of the murder, but they are clearly consistent with an argument that an intruder was in the basement
    Carnes - Wolf vs Ramsey Civil Case, 2003

    It’s unfortunate that Jones has also chosen to perpetuate old IDI tenets that have been debunked publically many years ago.

    Investigators have answered two vexing questions in the JonBenet Ramsey case that have long helped support the theory that an intruder killed her, according to sources close to the case.
    The answers, which have been known to investigators for some time but never publicly revealed, could be seen to weaken the intruder theory.
    The two clues are:
    * A mysterious Hi-Tec boot print in the mold on the floor of the Ramseys' wine cellar near JonBenet's body has been linked by investigators to Burke, her brother, who was 9 at the time. It is believed to have been left there under circumstances unrelated to JonBenet's murder.
    Burke, now 15, has repeatedly been cleared by authorities of any suspicion in the 1996 Christmas night slaying, and that has not changed.
    * A palm print on the door leading to that same wine cellar, long unidentified, is that of Melinda Ramsey, JonBenet's adult half-sister. She was in Georgia at the time of the murder.
    ``They were certainly some things that had to be answered, one way or the other, and we feel satisfied that they are both answered,'' said a source close to the case, who spoke on the condition of anonymity.
    Lin Wood, the attorney representing the Ramseys, who now live in Atlanta, doesn't debate the palm print findings. But he contends the police have not answered the Hi-Tec print mystery.
    ``Burke Ramsey does not and has never owned a pair of quote, unquote, trademarked Hi-Tec sneakers that the Ramseys are aware of,'' Wood said. ``I would think they know what shoes he has owned.''
    Wood said the two most important pieces of forensic evidence in the case are unidentified male DNA found in the girl's underwear and the bizarre 2 1/2-page ransom note, whose author has never been determined.
    ``I represent innocent clients,'' Wood said. ``There has been a history since December of 1996 of anonymous law enforcement officials in Boulder, Colorado, leaking information to the media, which, in most cases, turns out to be either false or grossly distorted.
    ``So I would put no weight, whatsoever, on anonymous information coming out of the Boulder Police Department. Zero.''
    But the source said that connecting the palm print to Melinda Ramsey was something that occurred belatedly, only because the first time her print sample was compared with the questioned print, the person making the comparison didn't properly see the match.
    As for the footprint in the wine cellar, the source said, ``We know Burke had a pair of Hi-Tec shoes.''
    JonBenet, a 6-year-old star of child beauty pageants and the youngest of John and Patsy Ramsey's two children, was found murdered in the basement of her family's Boulder home Dec. 26, 1996, about seven hours after her mother reported finding a ransom note demanding $118,000 for her safe return.
    Boulder Police Chief Mark Beckner refused Thursday to discuss any single piece of evidence in the beating and strangling death of JonBenet.
    But he said in the 5 1/2 years since the murder, police have continued to seek solutions to ``a number of evidentiary items'' that represented questions in need of answers.
    ``We have been able to answer questions about many of the pieces of evidence, and we hope that, over time, as we continue to go over them piece by piece, that we will be able to solve the puzzle,'' Beckner said.
    In their book about their daughter's murder, The Death of Innocence, the Ramseys list seven pieces of evidence they consider significant to the case - the palm print and the Hi-Tec print are numbers six and seven. In that book, John Ramsey wrote, ``Next to JonBenet's body, the killer, I believe, left a clear footprint made by the sole of a Hi-Tec hiking shoe, from the area at the heel where the brand name was stamped.''
    Writing about the palm print, John Ramsey concedes it might prove to belong to someone with a benign reason for being in the basement. ``At the same time,'' he adds, ``it could be an important clue.''
    Meanwhile, Wood said that Patsy Ramsey is making progress in her treatment for a recurrence of cancer, diagnosed Feb. 12.
    ``She completed her six-month course of chemotherapy in June, and obviously is still recovering from the side effects of that treatment,'' Wood said.
    ``But all in all, she's doing well. I just saw her today. She looks good. She looks very strong and optimistic, and so far, everything looks good on the follow-up exams.''
    Charlie Brennan, Rocky Mountain News, August 23, 2002

    Carol McKinley, Fox News confirming investigators telling her the shoe print, palm print and unidentified hair are all solved. The shoe print is Burke's, the palm print is Melinda's and the hair found on blanket is Patsy's.
    Fox News, August 23, 2002

    Last edited by cynic; 04-05-2011 at 09:22 PM.

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  23. #37
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    Cynic:
    "This Time We Get it Right!"

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary.
    For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." Stuart Chase

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  25. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by madeleine View Post
    Do you really think she'll care...........

    Journalists don't care about the real thing these days anymore,it's about what sells not about the truth,things have changed 100% in this business,it's just a money making machine...I stopped following the news and reading newspapers long ago in disgust.

    Being a journalist used to be about passion,digging,DISCOVERING.Not anymore.It's just a machine.Don't think we can beat that.

    They KNOW what they are selling.They know exactly that what they are showing is not the real thing.Yes you can remind them how wrong it is but don't think they'll care.Those days are over.They write and publish garbage,don't care about who the source is as long as it sells.

    It's all about the commercials.
    Oh I think she will. WS/Tricia have a proven track record for getting the truth out there. It is one thing for a few people to write a letter to an editor somewhere, it is another for a large web presence to stand up and say enough. Just remember once it gets out, it won't stop at WS. Bloggers will pick it up, podcasters will pick it up, etc.
    JMO.

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  27. #39
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    Cynic,


    Yet another excellent post!!!!!
    There are things that we don't want to happen but have to accept, things we don't want to know but have to learn, and people we can't live without but have to let go.

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    Another myth from Aphrodite Jones:
    • Corroborating DNA evidence under JonBenet’s fingernails
    The origin of this myth is Lou Smit:
    “I think she got a piece of her killer,” Smit said.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/theobserve...res.magazine37

    This is what you will find in criminal cases where there actually was a struggle, where the victim actually “got a piece of her killer:"
    “Ms. McCue submitted blood found under Ms. Adrianza’s fingernails for PCR DNA testing.”
    “Walter believes Lawless tried to escape whoever killed her, judging from the grass on her socks and the blood outside. She also clawed her attacker. Tissue and blood were found under her fingernails.”
    http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0...Mischelle.html

    Where is the tissue and blood under JonBenet’s fingernails that would have indicated she was in a struggle with her attacker?

    The reality is this:
    "When Meyer clipped the nails of each finger, no blood or tissue was found that would indicate a struggle. He used the same clippers for all the fingers, although doing so created an issue of cross-contamination. For optimal DNA purposes, separate and sterile clippers should have been used for each finger. Furthermore, we later learned that the coroner's office sometimes used the same clippers on different autopsy subjects."
    Steve Thomas, "JonBenet, Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation" – Pg. 41

    Also:

    Bill Wise, former first assistant with the Boulder County District Attorney's Office, said that although DNA "absolutely could be one of the biggest things in the case," it could also be nothing.
    Some of the DNA taken from the 6-year-old pageant queen's fingernails and underwear was "degraded," Wise said. He said the tool used to take samples wasn't clean.
    http://www.dailycamera.com/archivesearch/ci_13061689

    Also:

    Bob Grant, a former Adams County DA who helped investigate JonBenet’s death….
    There were also DNA traces found under the child’s fingernails, but they were degraded and tests were inconclusive, Grant said.
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14441778/

    I found the next quote fascinating when I first ran across it. It shows that members of the Ramsey team were aware very early on that the fingernail DNA evidence was worthless, and yet Ramsey PI’s, Lou Smit and a few others continued to regurgitate the myth of its significance for years, and thanks to Aphrodite Jones, even to this very day.

    Here's what Pam Paugh said on WROW 12/30/98
    Question: Does the DNA under those fingernails actually match the DNA that was found in the panties?
    Pam: "Well, from what I know, the DNA under the fingernails, when it was collected, and ummm, I saw JonBenet's body (obviously) -- her fingernails had been removed fairly deeply into the nail bed ummm I would say about, oh on a child about an eighth of an inch from what we would call the half moon... ummm.. and later to find out though that when the fingernails were being removed the instruments that were used were not clean and nor were they taken out of a sealed sanitized package. They actually used previously used clippers and files and so forth so it was not known if THEY contaminated them or what--- so that had to be put aside as not useable.

    The absence of flesh or blood beneath the fingernails indicates that that JonBenet did not scratch or dig her fingernails into anyone.
    The presence of enough severely degraded cells to produce a laughable partial profile beneath JonBenet’s fingernails suggests nothing more than accumulation from the normal activities of a 6 year old child who disliked washing her hands, or as has been suggested above, postmortem contamination.

    DNA quality is reflected in the number of markers that a sample yields. As I have pointed out on other occasions, members of Team Ramsey have erroneously described the fingernail DNA as matching other DNA in the case. There is no innocent reason for making such a claim; it’s quite simply, dishonest.
    Lou Smit in a deposition revealed that the fingernail scrapings from JonBenet’s right hand revealed 2 markers. This means that the DNA was so degraded that it bordered on being completely unusable.
    A full CODIS profile requires that 13 markers be identified, that standard is relaxed somewhat when DNA is obtained from a crime scene, and partial profiles with a minimum of 10 markers are allowed into the database.
    The problem with the fingernail “profile” becomes readily apparent, 2 out of 13 markers hardly qualifies as “profile.” Moreover, a two marker “profile” cannot be honestly said to match another DNA profile.
    Such a “match” is even less relevant than matching one out 6 or 7 required numbers in a lottery, both have no value.
    The perpetuation of the myth that the fingernail DNA is relevant is left to only the most irresponsible and deceptive proponents of the IDI theory. It has never been given credence by any BPD investigator or DA, surprisingly, not even Mary Lacy.
    Last edited by cynic; 04-06-2011 at 09:07 PM.
    It saddens me that 20 years after my sister Nicoles murder, we are still seeing the same crimes, just different names, over and over again.
    - Denise Brown (sister of Nicole Brown Simpson)

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  31. #41
    Yes, Ms. Aphrodite Jones...the DNA under JonBenet's fingernails mean nothing.

    JonBenet last bathed Christmas Eve. On that day/evening...

    JonBenet spent a few hours at her little friend Megan Kostanic's home.
    JonBenet went to Church.
    JonBenet went to eat at Pasta Jays.
    JonBenet went to the White home.

    JonBenet awoke Christmas Day. On that day/evening...

    JonBenet opened her Christmas presents.
    JonBenet helped John make pancakes?
    JonBenet ate breakfast.
    JonBenet changed from her pajamas into her play clothes.
    JonBenet played outside with friends.
    JonBenet played with her jewelry-making gift.
    JonBenet rode her bicycle outside the patio area.
    JonBenet took off her playclothes and dressed herself in her Gap outfit.
    JonBenet had dinner at the Whites.
    JonBenet played with the White children and Fleet and Dad.
    JonBenet fell asleep in the car on her way home.
    JonBenet ate pineapple before being murdered.

    How much foreign DNA could JonBenet have picked up?
    ...We have said to ourselves, look, there is never going to be a victory in this, there is no victory...John Ramsey: 6/24/98

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  33. #42
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    It's not the first case where there was strangulation and then a head bash as overkill....and even a sexual assault with an object. One in particular was a serial child killer in Europe (forget the country). Roy Hazelwood worked on the case and was able to link the deaths by the MO. The perps that were caught, when asked about the overkill said something the victim did made them angry...or that was their rationale.

    The strangulation came first---there were scratch marks on JBR's neck and her eyes had evidence of strangulation......and there looks like two separate rings around her neck. It could have been done slowly. Wecht might have the head bash right---I believe his son is a neurosurgeon. There was only a couple tablespoons of blood in her brain, and no blood outside the large gash. She was probably dead or close to dying when the bash occurred.

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  35. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maikai View Post
    It's not the first case where there was strangulation and then a head bash as overkill....and even a sexual assault with an object. One in particular was a serial child killer in Europe (forget the country). Roy Hazelwood worked on the case and was able to link the deaths by the MO. The perps that were caught, when asked about the overkill said something the victim did made them angry...or that was their rationale.

    The strangulation came first---there were scratch marks on JBR's neck and her eyes had evidence of strangulation......and there looks like two separate rings around her neck. It could have been done slowly. Wecht might have the head bash right---I believe his son is a neurosurgeon. There was only a couple tablespoons of blood in her brain, and no blood outside the large gash. She was probably dead or close to dying when the bash occurred.
    There were NO scratch marks on her neck. Those marks were petechial hemorrhages. The coroner did NOT note any scratches on her neck. There was NONE of her own blood or tissue under her nails.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

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  37. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maikai View Post
    It's not the first case where there was strangulation and then a head bash as overkill....and even a sexual assault with an object. One in particular was a serial child killer in Europe (forget the country). Roy Hazelwood worked on the case and was able to link the deaths by the MO. The perps that were caught, when asked about the overkill said something the victim did made them angry...or that was their rationale.

    The strangulation came first---there were scratch marks on JBR's neck and her eyes had evidence of strangulation......and there looks like two separate rings around her neck. It could have been done slowly. Wecht might have the head bash right---I believe his son is a neurosurgeon. There was only a couple tablespoons of blood in her brain, and no blood outside the large gash. She was probably dead or close to dying when the bash occurred.
    The word "gash" infers her scalp was opened by the head bash. It was not. Her skull was opened by the bash but there was no bleeding or obvious signs of trauma to her head.
    "This Time We Get it Right!"

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary.
    For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." Stuart Chase

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  39. #45
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    • The name of Michael Helgoth was brought up in the documentary.
    Generally, the Ramsey spin regarding Helgoth goes something like this:
    There is a mysterious footprint in the wine cellar near where JonBenet’s body was found and this print was made by Hi-Tec footwear.
    No mention is made of the fact that Burke Ramsey did own at least one pair of Hi-Tec’s.
    Mention is made of Michael Helgoth, from whom a pair of Hi-Tec boots was stolen by a so called friend, (John Edward Kenady,) and eventually turned over to the BPD.
    Usually, it’s also noted that he committed suicide a day after Alex Hunter announced that, "The list of suspects narrows. Soon there will be no one on the list but you."
    Mention is not made of the fact that friends and family of Michael Helgoth believe he committed suicide because his girlfriend broke up with him. (The day that he committed suicide was Valentine’s Day.)

    The cornerstone of the case against Helgoth as depicted by Team Ramsey is definitely the Hi-Tec footprint, and below we see that the boots were tested by CBI. The tests revealed that Helgoth’s boots did not match the footprint in the wine cellar.

    Ramseys give police Hi-Tec boots.
    Among information John and Patsy Ramsey provided to police this month are a pair of Hi-Tec boots obtained by one of the couple's private investigators.
    Colorado Springs private detective Ollie Gray said Wednesday he believes the size 8 leather and nylon boots could be the ones that JonBent's killer wore inside the Ramsey home where the little girl was found dead.
    Gray, who was present during police questioning of the Ramseys this week, said he turned the boots over to police on Aug. 4. He said police asked him questions about the boots in the interviews. Gray said he wants police to compare the soles of the boots to the footprint at the crime scene.
    "There is a good possibility they could match," Gray said.
    Boulder Police Chief Mark Beckner said he ordered the boots to be analyzed at the Colorado Bureau of Investigation lab.
    "If you look at them, they look pretty close," he said. "You really can't tell."
    But Beckner said he is waiting for the lab results before he gets too excited about the possible lead.
    "We've had other boots that looked like they matched as well," he said. The footprint remains one of the mysteries of the unsolved December 1996 beating and strangulation death of JonBent Ramsey.
    Police found a partial footprint with the words "Hi Tec" in the basement of the Ramsey home.
    Police cannot say whom it belongs to or when it was left. The Ramseys did not own a similar shoe.
    Some say the footprint could have been left behind by a construction worker or plumber when the house was under renovation, or inadvertently by a police officer who worked the crime scene. Others, including the Ramseys, have said they believe it could have been from an intruder who killed their daughter.
    Gray said he obtained the boots in the Boulder area in about mid- to late July "in the course of the investigation."
    He said they belong to an individual, whom he would not identify publicly because he said he doesn't want the person to be labeled a suspect until the lead has been investigated. But he said he did give police the full information about where and how he obtained the boots.
    "We don't have the slightest idea of what they have done with it," Gray said.
    In fact, Gray said, the Ramseys have provided police with several pages of reports and possible leads for them to follow up, including information given to them in May. Gray said he evaluates the information first so he doesn't hand over "superfluous" information.
    But he said police never give him feedback on what they have done with the information he provides them.
    Beckner said he shares general information with the Ramseys' private investigators from time to time, but never specifics about evidence.
    "We don't share case information with them because they work for people under suspicion who could be involved in this crime," Beckner said.

    By Christopher Anderson, Daily Camera Staff Writer, August 31, 2000


    Boots not connected to Ramsey case.
    A pair of Hi-Tec boots given to Boulder police in August are not connected to the unsolved 1996 JonBent Ramsey case, Chief Mark Beckner said Monday.
    A private investigator for the girl's parents, John and Patsy Ramsey, gave the boots to police in August believing they could match a partial Hi-Tec footprint found on a basement floor next to 6-year-old JonBent's beaten and strangled body.
    Beckner ordered the boots to be tested at the Colorado Bureau of Investigation. The results came back about two weeks ago.
    "The boots do not match," Beckner said Monday.
    The chief also said DNA tests and interviews with friends and family of the man who owned the boots led police to conclude the man was not involved in the little girl's mysterious killing.
    "There is nothing that ties this guy into the case," Beckner said.
    Ollie Gray, the private investigator who gave the boots to police, said he discussed the test results with Beckner but is not convinced.
    Gray said Beckner did not give him specifics about how the boots were compared to the partial print, what tests were run or who police interviewed.
    "What did they do with the hairs and fiber that were in the boots? Did they compare them?" Gray asked. "I am just not satisfied with what Beckner said."
    Police have repeatedly said they are limited in how much information about the investigation can be released.
    The boots tested at CBI originally belonged to a Boulder County man who committed suicide Feb. 14, 1997, the day after District Attorney Alex Hunter declared at a press conference that investigators were narrowing the list of suspects in the Ramsey case.
    Gray believes the stress of a possible arrest may have caused JonBent's killer to commit suicide. In July, John Edward Kenady, 47, a friend of the dead man, gave the boots to Gray, saying he suspected his friend may have been involved in the killing. Kenady is facing theft and burglary charges relating to other items found in his possession that belonged to his former friend.
    On Dec. 26, 1996, JonBent Ramsey's slain body was found in the basement of her family's home. Her parents remain under police suspicion. Hunter signed an affidavit last month for the Ramseys' attorney stating that JonBent's brother, Burke, was never a suspect in the case.
    The Ramseys have repeatedly denied any involvement in their daughter's death and believe an intruder killed the young girl.
    They point to the unexplained partial Hi-Tec boot print as possible proof of an intruder. Others have said the partial print could have been left behind by a law enforcement officer or someone else working on the crime scene that day.
    By Christopher Anderson, Daily Camera Staff Writer, November 21, 2000
    Last edited by cynic; 04-08-2011 at 01:35 AM.
    It saddens me that 20 years after my sister Nicoles murder, we are still seeing the same crimes, just different names, over and over again.
    - Denise Brown (sister of Nicole Brown Simpson)

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  41. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by cynic View Post
    Colorado Springs private detective Ollie Gray said Wednesday he believes the size 8 leather and nylon boots could be the ones that JonBent's killer wore inside the Ramsey home where the little girl was found dead.
    8 1/2 is rather small, no?

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  43. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by horatio View Post
    8 1/2 is rather small, no?


    We all know what small shoes mean small feet of course.


    All kidding aside, I havent heard anything about shoe size, but I would agree with you H, 8 1/2 is small.
    There are things that we don't want to happen but have to accept, things we don't want to know but have to learn, and people we can't live without but have to let go.

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  45. #48
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    WOW This thread is ROCKIN'. Thanks to the wonderful Websleuth members.

    I had emergency gallbladder surgery so I'm on the mend. The Ramsey curse did not kill. Felt like it was going to but didn't.

    In the next few days I'll get caught up and then we will get this project moving.

    JonBenetRamsey.org is a domain name I own. I would like to put all this info in one place and I'll probably use this domain to make it happen.

    This is just a little thing but it has always bothered me. Why didn't the Ramseys ever guy the JonBenet domains?

    JonBenetRamsey.org was just out there for years and I picked it up. Not sure who owns Jonbenet.org,.com. or .net but I know it's not the Ramseys.

    Again, very small but one of the million things that have nagged me about these people forever.
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  47. #49
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    Tricia, my prayers are with you for a speedy recovery! So glad you had the surgery because, believe it or not, not having the surgery is deadly!
    As for the Ramseys not buying the other JonBenet domains, I think it's pretty simple. Television provided them all the vehicle they needed to promote their spin AND paid them good money to boot. No need for them to spend their money at all.
    "This Time We Get it Right!"

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary.
    For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." Stuart Chase

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  49. #50
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
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    "The truth is on the march and nothing will stop it" Emile Zola
    Posts
    15,708
    In my letter to Ms. Jones I inadvertently sent out broken links. The links have been fixed and I have sent her the updated and corrected links.

    Just fyi.
    `````````````````

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    ************************************************** **************************************

    Tricia Griffith
    tgrif@xmission.com
    6300 N. Sage Wood Drive
    Suite H # 214
    Park City UT
    84098

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