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Thread: CA - Trabuco Canyon in Orange County - White Male 190UMCA, 15-19, Dec 1996

  1. #1
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    CA - Trabuco Canyon in Orange County - White Male 190UMCA, 15-19, Dec 1996

    This is my first post here. I apologize in advance if any problems in the post/layout.


    CORONER CASE NUMBER: 96-07901-MU
    Doe Network Case File 190UMCA
    SEX: MALE
    RACE: CAUCASIAN
    DATE of DEATH: Between 1/95 and 6/96
    AGE Estimate. LOW: 15, HIGH: 19
    EYES: UNKNOWN
    HAIR: Red or Sandy Brown
    HEIGHT: 64-68
    WEIGHT LBS: 130-160
    LOCATION FOUND: Wilderness area E. of Trabuco Creek Rd., 1.7 miles N. of Trabuco Canyon Road, Trabuco Canyon CA
    DEATH CLASSIFICATION: Undetermined
    PHYSIQUE: Unknown
    FEATURES: Partial skeletal remains found on 12/13/96 in a wilderness area frequented by transients and illegal aliens in Trabuco Canyon, off Trabuco Creek Road. The area is northeast of O'Neill Regional Park. Caucasian with reddish/sandy-brown hair, 15-19 years old, 64-68 inches tall, poor dental care.
    TATTOOS: None noted
    JEWELRY: None
    DENTALS: Available. He had poor dental care and some missing teeth. "O" restoration #19, abscess and caries #14, caries #3). Unerupted wisdom teeth, #30 missing antemortem. #4 retained deciduous molar distal buccal root tip.

    http://egov.ocgov.com/ocgov/Sheriff-...ES/96-07901-MU
    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/190umca.html

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  3. #2
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    I have a suspicion about who this might be, but the date of death would have to be way off. How accurate do you think the date of death for this young man is?

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  5. #3
    Cubby is offline 50K reward, Bob Harrod-Missing: Call Det. Radomski 714-993-8176
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    Welcome to WS and the UID forum Ambercat.

    We've seen the dates off, especially with skeletal remains. My suggestion is go ahead and add a post for the possible match for discussion.

    hth
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  7. #4
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    I thought that 190UMCA might be Angelo Nicola Gatti Jr.

    www.doenetwork.org/cases/517dmca.html
    www.charleyproject.org/cases/g/gatti_angelo.html
    dojapp.doj.ca.gov/missing/detail.asp?FCN=3739221300043

    The demographic information (height, weight, hair color, age) are very similar between Angelo and 190UMCA. San Juan Hot Springs (where Angelo was last seen by his family) and Trabuco Canyon are not really that far apart. The big discrepancy is that Angelo was last seen on July 13, 1974 and 190UMCA estimated date of death is between January 1995 and June 1996.

    I have wondered also if the “Angel” listing on the list found in serial killer Randy Kraft’s car was a referring to Angelo Gatti.

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  9. #5
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    here is the Namus profile for this UID. no rule outs:

    https://identifyus.org/cases/7686

    odd Namus estimates weight but not height. not sure how that is possible.

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  11. #6
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    this kid fits most of the parameters, Blake Pursley. ran away from a youth center in San Bernadino in 1994. was 14 y.o., was 5'5" and had brown hair. the UID had poor dentition and judging by his photo, Blake had oddly shaped teeth. one of his legs was 4" shorter than the other but only scattered skeletal remains were found so we can't tell if they found both legs on the UID:

    https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/1848/0/

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  13. #7
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    Possible matches?

    Two possibles?

    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1177dmca.html

    Burt O'Ryan Dollar
    Missing since July 9, 1995 from Long Beach, Los Angeles County, California.
    Classification: Endangered Missing



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Vital Statistics
    •Date Of Birth: October 9, 1974
    •Age at Time of Disappearance: 20 years old
    •Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'11"; 155 lbs.
    •Distinguishing Characteristics: White male. Blond hair; blue eyes.
    •Marks, Scars, Tattoos: Tattoo of a dog head in dark and tan colored ink on his left, front shoulder; tattoo of a dollar sign on left bicep. Appendectomy scar in abdominal area.
    •DNA: Available



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Circumstances of Disappearance
    Burt Dollar was last seen in Long Beach, CA on July 9, 1995 together with his friend Steven Clark. They were headed to Yosemite, CA or Forest Falls (just south of Yosemite), CA. to go camping.
    Last seen driving an unknown year, white Ford Festiva with Indiana license plates. The vehicle was later located just off Highway 395 near the California / Nevada border.


    or:
    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1178dmca.html

    Stephen Michael Clark
    Missing since July 9, 1995 from Yucaipa, San Bernardino County, California.
    Classification: Endangered Missing


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Vital Statistics

    •Date Of Birth: December 28, 1973
    •Age at Time of Disappearance: 21 years old
    •Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'11"; 165 lbs.
    •Distinguishing Characteristics: White male. Blond hair; blue eyes.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Circumstances of Disappearance
    Stephen Michael Clark was last seen in Long Beach, CA on July 9, 1995 together with his friend Burt O'Ryan Dollar. They were headed to Yosemite, CA or Forest Falls (just south of Yosemite), CA.
    Last seen driving an unknown year, white Ford Festiva with Indiana license plates. The vehicle was later located just off Hwy 395 near the California/Nevada border.


    Stephen looks most like the sketch to me. What do you all think?

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  15. #8
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    Stephen doesn't have the squared jaws like the drawing. His jaws are much narrower.

    Burt looks a little closer, but he doesn't have as wide of a head from eyes-to-temples.

    There's no way to evaluate how accurate the drawing is, but It seems to be carefully done.

    Both Burt and Stephen are much taller than the UID also.

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  17. #9
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    Yes, I did notice the height difference Carl, but given that there were only partial skeletal remains found, I am not sure how accurate the height estimation could be. Just thought I'd put them out there as possibles - we can only try

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  19. #10
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    He does look like Angelo, and the fact Angelo left with a sleeping bag and a revolver fits in reasonably well with him maybe having planned to sleep rough, possibly near or in a transient camp.

    If this guy had been found where I am (half a world away in Australia) I'd be hoping it was Daniel Sheppard.

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  21. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by reasypeasy View Post
    He does look like Angelo, and the fact Angelo left with a sleeping bag and a revolver fits in reasonably well with him maybe having planned to sleep rough, possibly near or in a transient camp.

    If this guy had been found where I am (half a world away in Australia) I'd be hoping it was Daniel Sheppard.
    Angelo's dad (Angelo Gatti Sr) dropped him off on the Ortega Highway near San Juan Hot Springs area (about 23 miles by road/a lot less as the crow flies near where the unidentified young man was found). I wonder if the .22 caliber Smith and Wesson revolver that he was carrying ever surfaced after his disappearance? I know that now, when there is a firearm associated with a missing person the serial number is flagged but I don't know if that was the case in the 1970s.

    I have seen the three other possible matches that people have suggested for the man found in Trabuco Canyon, but I really think that he looks the most like Angelo Gatti Jr. I wonder if this could be similar to Beddie Walraven's case where she was murdered in 1946, yet the Medical Examiner estimated her date of death as being between 1961 and 1971.
    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146577"]http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146577[/ame]

  22. #12
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    I have my doubts about Angelo.

    first of all he was supposedly 5'2", rather short and a couple of inches below the etsimated range of the UID. (not a deal breaker by any shot) second, and more importantly to me, was the poor dental care for the UID. I don't know what Gatti's socioeconomic status was, but lack of dental care implies to me neglect and/or poverty. Was Newport Beach a poorer neighborhood back in the 1970's??

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    Quote Originally Posted by webrocket View Post
    I have my doubts about Angelo.

    first of all he was supposedly 5'2", rather short and a couple of inches below the etsimated range of the UID. (not a deal breaker by any shot) second, and more importantly to me, was the poor dental care for the UID. I don't know what Gatti's socioeconomic status was, but lack of dental care implies to me neglect and/or poverty. Was Newport Beach a poorer neighborhood back in the 1970's??
    LOL -- I don't think Newport Beach has ever been a poorer neighborhood. It is my understanding that he used to go out into the woods for long periods of time -- I am not sure what kind of dental maintenance could be done there.

    Another possibility, since LE said the area was used by illegal immigrants and transients could mean that he is someone who came across the border illegally (maybe he traveled from Europe to Mexico and crossed to the US) and was never reported missing by his family. He also could have also been local and not reported missing for some reason or other.
    Last edited by Ambercat; 09-04-2011 at 05:07 PM.

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    I realized one other thing after I posted my comment. Angelo has dental information available so he had received dental care in the past. somewhat inconsistent with the poor to non-existent dental care for the UID.

    the hair color probably excludes a Latin American illegal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by webrocket View Post
    I realized one other thing after I posted my comment. Angelo has dental information available so he had received dental care in the past. somewhat inconsistent with the poor to non-existent dental care for the UID.

    the hair color probably excludes a Latin American illegal.
    I thought he could be someone who traveled from Europe to Mexico, then crossed the border illegally. There is a small population of Germans and other West Europeans who immigrated to Latin America, so while it is not likely he is from Latin America, it isn't completely impossible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarlK90245 View Post
    Stephen doesn't have the squared jaws like the drawing. His jaws are much narrower.

    Burt looks a little closer, but he doesn't have as wide of a head from eyes-to-temples.

    There's no way to evaluate how accurate the drawing is, but It seems to be carefully done.

    Both Burt and Stephen are much taller than the UID also.
    I think he looks like Burt Dollar. The height on the UID could be off, because of the partial remains.

    The reconstruction looks like someone between 17-19, rather than 15-19. JMO.

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  28. #17
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    It's been 16 years today since this young man's body was found. Hopefully, he will be identified soon.

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    I think Blake Pursley looks very possible...did anyone submit him?

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  31. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC Lady View Post
    I think Blake Pursley looks very possible...did anyone submit him?
    I haven't. There still aren't any rule outs listed on NamUs. It can't hurt to ask if he could be Blake Pursley.

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    I did not submit Blake's name.

  33. #21
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    There are two rule outs listed on NamUs -- Wesley Aaron and Angelo Gatti.

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    Recently, I noticed Shawn Hale who went missing at 19 from Apple Valley in San Bernardino County, CA on November 04, 1994. He is a lot taller than the estimates for the UID, but NamUs isn't even listing his estimated height, so maybe it is questionable? His other characteristics seem within range.

    https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/7546/71

    Also, another rule out has been added for this UID on NamUs -- Benjamin Jimenez-Carlson. I'm not really sure who that is.

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  37. #23
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    Possible Shawn Hale?

    Ambercat,

    Recently a family member of Shawn's contacted me via WS. I sent your info and post regarding Shawn and the Trabucho Canyon UID to that person and they are going to take a look.
    Where is Shawn Hale? (NamUs MP 7546) Missing from Apple Valley CA since 11/4/94.

    Where is Michelle Crawford? (NamUs MP14428-Missing from Lawton OK since 6/8/99.

    Where is Jennifer Lee Schmidt? (NamUs MP4822-Missing From West Lafayette IN(Purdue University) since 08/06/85.

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  39. #24
    carbuff is offline ebook Bad Fairies available from Torridbooks.com, Amazon, B&N
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    Another name added to the ruleouts (as of December 16, 2013):

    Wesley Aaron 1979 Arizona
    Angelo Gatti 1952 California
    Benjamin Jimenez-Carlson Unknown California

    https://identifyus.org/cases/7686
    Opinions expressed are strictly my own (who else would they belong to???)

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