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  1. #1

    Work Gloves...used in the crime?

    Has anyone read this part of the interrogation of John? Mr. Levin asks John if he had ever owned work gloves. I know this question was asked of John in a previous interrogation. Do these work gloves have any significance in the murder of JonBenet Ramsey?


    9 Q. (By Mr. Levin) While Mr. Kane is

    10 looking for that on his computer, Mr. Ramsey,

    11 I am interested, and this is concerning

    12 events, obviously, that precede 1998, but it

    13 is based on information developed after the

    14 grand jury was convened. I am interested,

    15 if you would, please tell us what types, if

    16 any, work gloves you own, whether you kept

    17 them in the house, on the plane, in the car,

    18 it doesn't matter, but just identify them by

    19 their location.

    20 A. I don't remember that I owned any

    21 work gloves. I don't normally wear work

    22 gloves.

    23 Q. So just to clarify, you are

    24 saying that your recollection is that you did

    25 not or you are just unsure because of the

    0052

    1 passage of time?

    2 A. I don't remember. I mean, I

    3 don't normally wear work gloves. I've had

    4 work gloves from time to time, but I

    5 don't -- I can't specifically remember that I

    6 had any then or if I did what they were

    7 like.

    8 I had a pair here that were gray,

    9 and I bought those at Home Depot, and God

    10 knows where they are now. So they kind of

    11 come and go.

    12 Q. So it wasn't your routine habit

    13 or practice to keep a pair of work gloves in

    14 your cars if you needed to change a tire

    15 or --

    16 A. (Witness shook head negatively).

    17 Q. -- or on your plane if you needed

    18 to do something where you would kind of get

    19 dirtied up?

    20 A. No. I am not qualified to work

    21 on my airplane, my former airplane
    ...We have said to ourselves, look, there is never going to be a victory in this, there is no victory...John Ramsey: 6/24/98

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toltec View Post
    Has anyone read this part of the interrogation of John? Mr. Levin asks John if he had ever owned work gloves. I know this question was asked of John in a previous interrogation. Do these work gloves have any significance in the murder of JonBenet Ramsey?
    9 Q. (By Mr. Levin) While Mr. Kane is

    10 looking for that on his computer, Mr. Ramsey,

    11 I am interested, and this is concerning

    12 events, obviously, that precede 1998, but it

    13 is based on information developed after the

    14 grand jury was convened. I am interested,

    15 if you would, please tell us what types, if

    16 any, work gloves you own, whether you kept

    17 them in the house, on the plane, in the car,

    18 it doesn't matter, but just identify them by

    19 their location.

    20 A. I don't remember that I owned any

    21 work gloves. I don't normally wear work

    22 gloves.

    23 Q. So just to clarify, you are

    24 saying that your recollection is that you did

    25 not or you are just unsure because of the

    0052

    1 passage of time?

    2 A. I don't remember. I mean, I

    3 don't normally wear work gloves. I've had

    4 work gloves from time to time, but I

    5 don't -- I can't specifically remember that I

    6 had any then or if I did what they were

    7 like.

    8 I had a pair here that were gray,

    9 and I bought those at Home Depot, and God

    10 knows where they are now. So they kind of

    11 come and go.

    12 Q. So it wasn't your routine habit

    13 or practice to keep a pair of work gloves in

    14 your cars if you needed to change a tire

    15 or --

    16 A. (Witness shook head negatively).

    17 Q. -- or on your plane if you needed

    18 to do something where you would kind of get

    19 dirtied up?

    20 A. No. I am not qualified to work

    21 on my airplane, my former airplane[/quote]

    Toltec,
    They probably do. Looks like some gloves were discovered and the investigators are indirectly wanting to eliminate the R's by asking directly, consider the size-12's, did the intruder bring these into the house etc.

    .

  3. #3
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    It wouldn't surprise me to find work gloves at the house even if they didn't belong to JR. They had a gardener/landscaper, didn't they? They had workmen at the house sometimes.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  4. #4
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    snipped and BBM:

    but it

    13 is based on information developed after the

    14 grand jury was convened.


    This part interests me very much. I wonder who would have testified to the GJ about these work gloves? Also, could there have been work glove fibers on or around her body and this was testified to?It would be wonderful to get a glimpse of some of the evidence that we have never seen. I can't help but feel that all the answers are in that evidence and nobody in Boulder has the gumption to go up against the Ramsey dream team. FGS, have a little faith in the judicial system and present this case to a jury! Yes, I know it will never happen because it's almost 5 years too late now.
    "This Time We Get it Right!"

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary.
    For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." Stuart Chase

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeskidbeck View Post
    snipped and BBM:

    but it

    13 is based on information developed after the

    14 grand jury was convened.


    This part interests me very much. I wonder who would have testified to the GJ about these work gloves? Also, could there have been work glove fibers on or around her body and this was testified to?It would be wonderful to get a glimpse of some of the evidence that we have never seen. I can't help but feel that all the answers are in that evidence and nobody in Boulder has the gumption to go up against the Ramsey dream team. FGS, have a little faith in the judicial system and present this case to a jury! Yes, I know it will never happen because it's almost 5 years too late now.
    joeskidbeck,
    Well just as enlightening is:
    grand jury was convened. I am interested,

    15 if you would, please tell us what types, if

    16 any, work gloves you own, whether you kept

    17 them in the house, on the plane, in the car,

    18 it doesn't matter, but just identify them by

    19 their location.
    This more or less confirms they have gloves that link with the crime-scene, note John is never asked basement, your den, maybe your bedroom etc, just general locations.

    This might suggest third party assistance with the staging? Maybe the person who cleaned the flashlight decided to wear gloves but had already touched the flashlight.

    It would make sense whomever carried JonBenet down to the basement should wear gloves, no point in taking forensic risks!


    .

  6. #6
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    We know that Patsy had admitted to keeping latex gloves in the home for when she dyed her hair, so she would not have needed to use work gloves. I think you are right in that work gloves were found somewhere on the property and presented at the GJ. I'd be willing to bet they were brown as JR is pretty quick to point out that he once owned gray ones!
    "This Time We Get it Right!"

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary.
    For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." Stuart Chase

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeskidbeck View Post
    We know that Patsy had admitted to keeping latex gloves in the home for when she dyed her hair, so she would not have needed to use work gloves. I think you are right in that work gloves were found somewhere on the property and presented at the GJ. I'd be willing to bet they were brown as JR is pretty quick to point out that he once owned gray ones!
    size-12?


    .

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeskidbeck View Post
    We know that Patsy had admitted to keeping latex gloves in the home for when she dyed her hair, so she would not have needed to use work gloves. I think you are right in that work gloves were found somewhere on the property and presented at the GJ. I'd be willing to bet they were brown as JR is pretty quick to point out that he once owned gray ones!


    Beck, let us not forget the medical supplies they would still have had in the house, in the drawer, in JAR's room. I would bet the farm, latex gloves were part of those supplies.
    There are things that we don't want to happen but have to accept, things we don't want to know but have to learn, and people we can't live without but have to let go.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeskidbeck View Post
    snipped and BBM:

    but it

    13 is based on information developed after the

    14 grand jury was convened.


    This part interests me very much. I wonder who would have testified to the GJ about these work gloves? Also, could there have been work glove fibers on or around her body and this was testified to?It would be wonderful to get a glimpse of some of the evidence that we have never seen. I can't help but feel that all the answers are in that evidence and nobody in Boulder has the gumption to go up against the Ramsey dream team. FGS, have a little faith in the judicial system and present this case to a jury! Yes, I know it will never happen because it's almost 5 years too late now.

    Weren't unsourced "tan/brown" cotton fibers found on the body? Some theories feel they may be from the tan cotton body of an Amercan Girl doll (specifically, the duct tape thay may have been on the back of the doll's neck). If LE has the work gloves, they also have the ability to test them against the tan/brown fibers. However, they do not have the doll. Those dolls do not come with the duct tape- the parent has to put the tape on the doll over the neck cord knot. If JB's doll had the tape, there would be glue residue on the back of the doll's neck. Could THIS be the reason the new doll was ordered: to replace the doll that had the tape put on? The new doll would have no such residue. But the adhesive on the back of the tape from JB's mouth could have been matches against the adhesive residue on the doll IF LE had the doll. Maybe LE asked for the doll (like they asked for the clothes the Rs were wearing that day). Maybe the new doll was intended to be substituted for the actual doll (like the Rs were thought to have substituted new or laundered clothes for the ones they were wearing that night.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  10. #10
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    DeeDee, I thought I remembered something about tan/brown fibers. Maybe they think the killer was wearing tan or brown gloves while handling the duct tape. I wish Boulder LE would read here. Then maybe they could solve this case!
    "This Time We Get it Right!"

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary.
    For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." Stuart Chase


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeskidbeck View Post
    DeeDee, I thought I remembered something about tan/brown fibers. Maybe they think the killer was wearing tan or brown gloves while handling the duct tape. I wish Boulder LE would read here. Then maybe they could solve this case!
    Maybe they do read here. Hope so. Unless they dislike reading the catalog of incompetence that defined this case.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
    Weren't unsourced "tan/brown" cotton fibers found on the body? Some theories feel they may be from the tan cotton body of an Amercan Girl doll (specifically, the duct tape thay may have been on the back of the doll's neck). If LE has the work gloves, they also have the ability to test them against the tan/brown fibers. However, they do not have the doll. Those dolls do not come with the duct tape- the parent has to put the tape on the doll over the neck cord knot. If JB's doll had the tape, there would be glue residue on the back of the doll's neck. Could THIS be the reason the new doll was ordered: to replace the doll that had the tape put on? The new doll would have no such residue. But the adhesive on the back of the tape from JB's mouth could have been matches against the adhesive residue on the doll IF LE had the doll. Maybe LE asked for the doll (like they asked for the clothes the Rs were wearing that day). Maybe the new doll was intended to be substituted for the actual doll (like the Rs were thought to have substituted new or laundered clothes for the ones they were wearing that night.
    DeeDee249,
    Yes you could be correct. What you suggest is cogent and consistent.

    Also here is an interesting link with the color brown is:
    Patsy's Atlanta 2000 Interview, excerpt
    1 Q. Did you own gardening gloves?
    2 A. I don't think so, no.
    3 Q. Do you recall ever seeing in your
    4 house brown kind of work gloves, cotton?
    5 A. Brown cotton? John had -- I
    6 don't remember brown work gloves.
    7 Q. Can you picture what I am talking
    8 about?

    ...

    1 question was, do you recall ever seeing in
    2 your house brown kind of work gloves, cotton,
    3 and you went brown cotton, and you said John
    4 had, and you said I don't remember brown.
    5 All I want to do is put it in the context
    6 of what she said. Do you remember saying
    7 that?
    8 THE WITNESS: Yes.
    9 MR. WOOD: Now, Mr. Kane, go
    10 right ahead.
    11 Q. (By Mr. Kane) Now that you've
    12 had time to think about it for a minute,
    13 what did John have?
    14 A. What kind of gloves did he have?
    15 Q. What were you about to say? You
    16 said John had.
    17 A. John had ski gloves.
    18 Q. (By Mr. Levin) In addition to
    19 his ski gloves, Mrs. Ramsey, do you recall
    20 John having any kind of work gloves that he
    21 might have kept in the car if he had to
    22 change a tire or anything like that?
    23 A. No.
    24 Q. Just for clarification, for the
    25 record, when you say no, does that mean no,
    0183
    1 you don't recall whether he did or didn't or
    2 no, he did not own any work gloves?
    3 A. I don't recall that he did. You
    4 will have to ask him if he did.
    5 Q. Fair enough. Thank you.
    6 Mr. Morrissey?
    7 Q. (By Mr. Morrissey) What color
    8 were the ski gloves that you were thinking
    9 about?
    10 A. It seems to me like they were
    11 black. I can't be sure, but I think they
    12 were black. They were the puffy kind.
    So if they do not have the gloves but simply the fibers then it may be a line of questioning they are pursuing, thinking the person who placed the tape over JonBenet's lips was wearing gloves?


    .

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by UKGuy View Post
    DeeDee249,
    Yes you could be correct. What you suggest is cogent and consistent.

    Also here is an interesting link with the color brown is:
    Patsy's Atlanta 2000 Interview, excerpt

    So if they do not have the gloves but simply the fibers then it may be a line of questioning they are pursuing, thinking the person who placed the tape over JonBenet's lips was wearing gloves?


    .
    That just really gets to me....why LE would give Patsy an opportunity to think of something to make up.

    She was ready to say John had some work gloves...but then she was cut off. This type of questioning is just totalally inflaming.
    ...We have said to ourselves, look, there is never going to be a victory in this, there is no victory...John Ramsey: 6/24/98

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toltec View Post
    That just really gets to me....why LE would give Patsy an opportunity to think of something to make up.

    She was ready to say John had some work gloves...but then she was cut off. This type of questioning is just totalally inflaming.
    Believe me, my blood pressure skyrockets every time I read those interviews. Not only because of the Rs answers, but because of the way LE drops the ball on nearly EVERY important line of questioning.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

  15. #15
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    this thread reminds me of something I've been thinking about lately.
    I never thought she was assaulted with that paintbrush,her injuries are consistent with digital penetration.the paintbrush would have caused way much more damage AND different kinds of injuries.
    so IMO it was transfer,whoever broke/touched it ,touched JB afterwards.
    but this would mean she was touched down there AFTER the paintbrush was broken.
    how does this fit in the timeline,it's so confusing.again.
    cause she was alive when hurt down there.what was that person who did it doing with the paintbrush BEFORE.
    Ramsey case: "Instead of being the DNA of one person, they have instead created a composite of someone who does not exist. "

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