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Thread: MI - Exeter Twp, WhtFem, 45-56, Denture-Golden Eagle Bar TShrt, Dec'86 *Ruth Hoffman*

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    MI - Exeter Twp, WhtFem, 45-56, Denture-Golden Eagle Bar TShrt, Dec'86 *Ruth Hoffman*

    Unidentified white female found in wooded area of Exeter Twp, MI. Approximate age 45-56 years old, estimated height 63 inches.

    Deceased was found wearing the following clothing (photo of clothing available on NamUS):

    Silk tank top, black, with lace edging with "Golden Eagle Bar" Sumpter, MI
    Black with Gray pinstripe jogging shorts-"Justine" Brand Size Lg.
    White panties
    Size 9 black flat sandals with one strap across toes and an ankle strap

    2 pierced earrings
    metal clear stone necklance


    Complete upper denture was recovered with body (photo on NamUs)

    https://identifyus.org/cases/8380
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 09-12-2013 at 03:28 PM.

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    From the Monroe Evening News archive July 26, 2006:

    Article titled "Thirty Years of Monroe County Bodies" (I had to purchase the archived article, so there is no link, but here is the portion that pertains to this UID):

    December, 1986 - Remains of a still unidentified woman found off Hivon Rd. near Rawsonville Rd. in Exeter Township. She had a muscular build, delivered at least one child and suffered a broken jaw and broken bone in her arm trying to prevent blows to the head. Cause of death had not been determined.


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    Its interesting to note that this woman was one of 3 bodies found in Monroe County in a relatively short time frame. She was found less than 2 miles from one of the other men. (A black male - I haven't yet been able to determine whether he was ever identified. He doesn't have a NamUs profile though.)

    The other body was a white male who does have a NamUS profile and a Websleuths thread:

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132742"]http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132742[/ame]


    All 3 of these individuals are mentioned in the following archived Toledo Blade article dated 12/27/1986:

    http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...d+monroe&hl=en

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    I would assume that she was either local or had spent a lot of time in the area, due to the tank top with the local bar on it. This wouldn't appear to be a randomly dumped body from another area.

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    Located an address for the Golden Eagle Bar - 17400 Savage Rd.

    That bar is exactly 13 miles from where her body was found, which reinforces my thought that she may have been from the area.

    Which leads me to wonder how no one ever identified her? They have a facial reconstruction, partial dentures, dental charting, etc. I wonder if a sketch or composite was ever shown to the people at the Golden Eagle Bar - it seems like the kind of place that would have had a regular crowd.

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    The property at 17400 Savage was recently for sale, and there are quite a few photos of the building available here. (The photos are circa 2009, but it still reinforces my thought that this was sort of a dive bar.)

    http://www.trulia.com/property/photo...ville-MI-48111

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    "Unidentified white female found in wooded area of Exeter Twp, MI. Approximate age 45-56 years old, estimated height 63 inches."

    Looking at the clothes and keeping in mind the approximate age... maybe she was a working girl.

    Just a thought.

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    I am thinking this is Ruth Hoffman. Still waiting to hear back from LE.

    https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/821/4/

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtrooper View Post
    I am thinking this is Ruth Hoffman. Still waiting to hear back from LE.

    https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/821/4/
    Despite the significant height difference, it looks like a good to me.

    Upper denture - prior childbirth - possible prior injuries from car accident (although not specifically cited). Age is right. Timeline is good. Facial shape is reasonably consistent.

    Last edited by CarlK90245; 10-09-2012 at 08:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarlK90245 View Post
    Despite the significant height difference, it looks like a good to me.

    Upper denture - prior childbirth - possible prior injuries from car accident (although not specifically cited). Age is right. Timeline is good. Facial shape is reasonably consistent.


    Have you seen the other picture of Ruth that her daughter posted on her Myspace?

    http://www.myspace.com/ruthhalls/pho...2%3A9293526%7D
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 10-09-2012 at 08:02 PM.

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    Interesting theory.

    Also, I'm not sure that Ruth had actually been listed as a missing person yet by the time the body was found, even though she was last seen in July 1986. If I recall correctly, it seems like I remember reading that her daughter had a hard time getting her listed as a missing person.

    Oh wow...Ruth Hoffman had full dentures on top, and so did the UID. What are the odds of that?

    Please let me know if you have a hard time hearing back from law enforcement. I have a family member in the Monroe County Sheriff's department, but I'd rather follow regular channels first. (Only want to play that card when absolutely necessary, so that I don't wear out my welcome. Know what I mean?)

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    I was looking at for Carroll Lou Viau from Ontario for an entirely different case previously. Some things fit rather well in comparison to this UID, though the circumstances of her disappearance give me the impression that the answers for her may be closer to Thunder Bay then Michigan.

    What do you think?

    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/744dfon.html

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    MI - UID Female, Monroe County, 1986 to: PA - Agnes Ann Young, Long Branch, 1986

    Hi there, I was wondering if anyone has any thoughts on these two as a possible match.
    Agnes Anne Young dissapears in about 1985-1986 from Pennsylvania. She has unnamed injuries from a car accident in her teens which caused her to be classified as disabled.


    The Doe Network:
    Case File 1877DFPA


    Agnes Ann Young
    Missing since approximately 1986 from Long Branch, Washington County, Pennsylvania
    Classification: Endangered Missing



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Vital Statistics
    •Date of Birth: about 1943
    •Age at Time of Disappearance: 43 years old
    •Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: Est. 5'5"; Est 120 lbs.
    •Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Brown hair; brown eyes.
    •Medical: Mental health records indicated Young attempted suicide three times.




    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Circumstances of Disappearance
    Young was last seen in Long Branch, Pennsylvania around 1986.

    On May 8, 2002 a special agent of the U.S. Office of the Inspector General, contacted state police at the Belle Vernon barracks, and learned that that Agnes Young had not been seen by anyone for at least 10 years. However, her Social Security checks had been cashed on a monthly basis from 1991 to September 2001. He spoke with the woman's relatives and friends, but he could not find anyone who had seen her in a decade.

    Her husband never filed a missing persons report, but someone did file a missing persons report on October 1, 1986.
    Social Security officials terminated Agnes Young's benefits and still attempted to contact her.

    Agnes Young's sister was told by Agnes' husband that Agnes was moved to a mental institution in upstate New York, and she had not seen Agnes in 10 years. Agnes Young's brother last saw his sister in 1985. The husband told him Agnes Young was unavailable when he attempted to visit her. Agnes's sister-in-law was told Agnes Young was transferred to New York after the mental institution in Pittsburgh burned down.

    Police could not find records of recent residence for Agnes Young in mental institutions in Ohio, Pennsylvania nor New York. However, mental health records indicated Agnes Young attempted suicide three times. Her name also was absent from records at the Bureau of Vital Statistics in New Castle.

    Jane Doe from Munroe County seems to resemble Agnes Young. Also she is said to have had unhealed fractures which could fit in with a car accident. The age is slightly out and the Agnes page does not mention her having dentures. The height is also slightly out but Agnes page does specify the height is an estimate

    The Doe Network:
    Case File 792UFMI

    Reconstruction of Victim

    Unidentified White Female


    •The victim was discovered on December 26, 1986 in Monroe County, Michigan
    •Estimated Date of Death: Months prior
    •Skeletal Remains

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Vital Statistics

    •Estimated age: 45-56 years old
    •Approximate Height and Weight: 5'3"
    •Distinguishing Characteristics: Brown hair. Muscular build, especially the lower body. May have complained of lower back pain during life. Old well-healed fracture of the left wrist (distal ulna with possible damage to growth plate of radius during the late teens). Old well-healed fracture of the nasal bones. Had at least one childbirth-scarring suggests it may have been difficult. May have experienced Eagle's Syndrome-associating orofacial pain.
    •Clothing: Clothing associated with the body included a blank silk tank top with "Golden Eagle Bar" Sumpter, MI printed on it. She also had black with grey pinstriped jogging shorts on, "Justine" Brand, Size Large. A pair of flat black strappy sandals with ankle straps, size 9. Two pierced earrings; metal, clear stone necklace.
    •Dentals: Available. Upper denture with acrylic base and full compliment of porcelain teeth. Staining on the palate of the denture is consistent with excessive smoking.


    Shoes & Clothes

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Case History
    The victim was located in a wooded area, off Hivon Road near Rawsonville Road in Exeter Township.

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    Here are the links for the UID and for Agnes Ann Young:

    NamUs UP Case 8380 https://identifyus.org/cases/8380
    DoeNetwork Case 792UFMI http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/792ufmi.html


    Agnes Ann Young http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/y/young_agnes.html



    The height difference is not that significant for skeletal remains. Monroe County Michigan is about 300 miles from Long Branch PA. Agnes' cheekbones don't appear to be as broad, and there are a few apparent discrepancies (e.g., the dentures) but she might worth a look anyway.

    BTW, there is already a thread for this UID.
    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6679878#post6679878"]MI MI - Monroe County - White Female (NamUs #8380), 45-56, Dec 1986[/ame]
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 10-09-2012 at 08:02 PM.

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    Thanks for the link for the unidentified thread Carl. I did search for a previous thread but didn't find one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtrooper View Post
    Have you seen the other picture of Ruth that her daughter posted on her Myspace?

    http://www.myspace.com/ruthhalls/pho...2%3A9293526%7D
    I think the other photos they have of her on this myspace account look more like the UID.
    Ruth's "daughter reported that she said that she had been raped the night before and was going to confront the suspects in the rape. She was never seen again." She was last seen wearing "Red midriff half T-shirt-Sz. Small
    Blue "Gloria Vanderbilt" jeans size 9-10, white Nike athletic shoes, and a Brown leather mid-length coat."
    This UID was found with entirley different clothing...? Ruth was last seen in July and I am assuming that she wouldnt have been wearing a leather mid-length coat. I am assumming it was colder weather when this UID was killed and wouldnt be wearing a long jacket...? Just my opinion..?

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    Any news back from the LE? I independently was researching another case and came across this possible match.

    The dentures seem like a match, age and timeline....
    'Nothing clears up a case so much as stating it to another person.'

    Sherlock Holmes

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    Which match do you mean, kpdx?

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    kpdx is offline Jane Doe was discovered Aug. 14, 1977 outside of Everett WA
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    Ruth and the Monroe Jane...
    'Nothing clears up a case so much as stating it to another person.'

    Sherlock Holmes

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    MTrooper, any word? the more I look at it the better the match is with Ruth Hoffman. besides the obvious thing like the denture plate, the UID is dressed in a manner consistent with a summertime death. Ruth was last seen on July 7, 1986.

    (the clothing Ruth was supposedly wearing at the time of her disappearance makes no sense. on July 7, Ruth left her home wearing jeans and a brown leather mid-length coat?)

    while they did not specify where in Monroe County the remains were found, Wayne County, where Ruth lived is adjacent to Monroe County so there is no great distance involved here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by masnitram View Post
    I was looking at for Carroll Lou Viau from Ontario for an entirely different case previously. Some things fit rather well in comparison to this UID, though the circumstances of her disappearance give me the impression that the answers for her may be closer to Thunder Bay then Michigan.

    What do you think?

    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/744dfon.html
    I came across this lady too Masnitram and thought she looked like a good possible and it is not too huge a distance. In my humble opinion she should be considered at least.

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    Quote Originally Posted by belfastgirl73 View Post
    I came across this lady too Masnitram and thought she looked like a good possible and it is not too huge a distance. In my humble opinion she should be considered at least.
    I doubt that possible match. I can't figure out where the psychiatric patient from Thunder Bay, ON would wind up with a t-shirt from a Michigan bar that just happened to be 13 miles from where the body was found.

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    Stranger things have happened!

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    Quote Originally Posted by webrocket View Post
    I doubt that possible match. I can't figure out where the psychiatric patient from Thunder Bay, ON would wind up with a t-shirt from a Michigan bar that just happened to be 13 miles from where the body was found.
    I wouldn't see it as a problem, her psychiatric patient status is pretty much irrelevant when it comes to the t-shirt IMO. If Jane Doe was Ms. Viau she might have traveled to Michigan and got the t-shirt in any of the ways non-psychiatric patients usually get theirs. Bought a souvenir, worked at a bar and got it as part of uniform (although I hope that would have been checked), got it from somewhere that sells used clothing locally etc. Salvation Army maybe? She was spotted in one before she disappeared. There is more than a year after her last date of contact in Sept 1985 and the body being found in December 1986 and the estimated postmortem interval is months which gives her time to get a t-shirt in a number of ways IMO. If she happened to have some contact to the area prior to disappearing she might even have had the t-shirt before disappearing.

    According to DN she was a voluntary patient who checked herself in the psychiatric hospital for a nervous breakdown and mental confusion. They don't say how severe her situation was but the way her diagnosis is phrased it does not sound like a stable state. A nervous breakdown could be triggered by some kind of a life crisis and one can get better or be cured altogether, at least be functional enough to be able to obtain a t-shirt one way or another. Nothing too implausible required imo.

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    Sorry,

    NO real update. I was told the investigator at the ME's office was working on it..I am going to try a different route. Any inside help would be appreciated.

    Thanks

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