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Thread: observing casey non reactions

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousTwo View Post
    Great thread! My overriding thought on this is that regardless of which type of or even IF she truly has any type of "disorder" or "diminished mental capacity," she has enough mental capacity to know right from wrong. My opinion is that she made a conscious choice to do what she did and should pay the price for her voluntary actions.

    I recall that at the start of this, many thought she was extremely smart to have pulled this off so far. But, I don't think she's so smart. If she were, she would at least fake emotions when appropriate as littlemisslegal mentioned. To react to descriptions of Caylee's remains and to the verbalized speculation of how she died, would be appropriate - if she were so smart, she would at least fake reactions. Her love for her own self is her overriding motivation and will be her downfall.
    She almost gave herself away in this video crying in court, shaking her head "no" when JA was describing his theory as to what ICA had done and LKB takes her arm to get her to stop reacting. Apparantly, JA has something wrong in his theory and she knows that's not the way it happened. I do believe she showed emotion here but only out of frustration because she CAN'T tell her version.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Whamjz3XOJ0&feature=player_detailpage[/ame]
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    Quote Originally Posted by K9Snoop View Post
    Something everyone needs to keep in mind is that you should not judge a person's emotions or feelings against your own. If you are use to seeing blood and guts or death or whatever then how you would deal with the situation is going to be different then someone who hasn't. People develop coping mechanisms to maintain their working ability or sanity. Graveyard humor is common in many fields such as medical, LE, fire, etc. as a means of coping and keeping mental stability. While I am not attributing any such behavior to CA, you have to judge CA against CA's "normal" not against your "normal".
    That said sometimes what you look at is not whether something is "Normal" or "Not normal" but whether it is appropriate or not.
    IMO, I'm sorry..I'm a nurse too and I can tell you that I cry when I see murdered or dead children....There is no excuse for coldness when a child in your family is murdered....whether you did it or not. That is called a personality disorder...psychopath, sociopath, narcissistic disorder, or borderline personality disorder. NO FEELINGS when NORMAL people would have them! I am a psychiatric professional for 30 years.

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  5. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solace View Post
    It should be interesting to watch her reaction to their talking about this. Unless Baez has said, we have to do this to save you, we know you are innocent.
    Personality disorders do not constitute a break with reality, that is, they know the difference between right and wrong. Personality disordered persons don't have delusions or hallucinations that lead them to murder an innocent person. They murder because NO ONE matters to them and there is no defense of diminshed capacity.....they know exactly what they are doing and why. IMO of course

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  7. #79
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    i am still perplexed by LA saying i a jail house tape "is this like the last time"?
    wonder if the last time put her over the edge, to have no reaction to what she went on to Caylee and her non reaction now

    jmo

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    Quote Originally Posted by orbison11 View Post
    i am still perplexed by LA saying i a jail house tape "is this like the last time"?
    wonder if the last time put her over the edge, to have no reaction to what she went on to Caylee and her non reaction now

    jmo
    We learned through MHawkins depo, that ICA would withhold Caylee from her parents to punish them or shall I say, to punish CA...no doubt there is a love/hate relationship between those two and the bulk of it was due to Caylee and ICA being a neglectful parent in CA eyes...so, LA asking is this like last time is due to ICA taking Caylee away from the Hopespring Dr. address for a period of time...JMHO

    Justice for Caylee

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  11. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baznme View Post
    She almost gave herself away in this video crying in court, shaking her head "no" when JA was describing his theory as to what ICA had done and LKB takes her arm to get her to stop reacting. Apparantly, JA has something wrong in his theory and she knows that's not the way it happened. I do believe she showed emotion here but only out of frustration because she CAN'T tell her version.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Whamj...yer_detailpage
    Thanks for the reminder video! I wonder what Jose whispers in ICA's ear before she starts to sob:

    "This is the part when your supposed to cry"

    Interesting....

    MOO

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  13. #82
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    u know....watching this again a few things come to mind. Watching her at hearings now, for what seems like forever, there are not many instances of this kind of "emotion". I believe she was told that this was going to happen that day and that she really needed to show some kind of emotion. Unfortunately, since she is not capable of that her acting skills went into hyperdrive and she overdid it. When ashton speaks of being physically restrained she grabs her arm instinctually. When he starts talking about chloroform she looks enraged,as if shes saying,that's wrong!!! When he starts talking about the duct tape she closes her eyes and looks down. I believe she is at that moment visualizing everything and she is horrified that they have her figured out. During the entire describing of what Caylee went through she is hiding her face and looking down. That's actually seems like shame to me. While ICA is trying her hardest to seem overly emotional about her daughters death, her body language screams guilty.
    ETA: and remember this was the hearing seeking the death penalty so she had to lay it on thick to try and save her own keister. Now im convinced more than ever that this was an act. A bad one at that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by belle3 View Post
    u know....watching this again a few things come to mind. Watching her at hearings now, for what seems like forever, there are not many instances of this kind of "emotion". I believe she was told that this was going to happen that day and that she really needed to show some kind of emotion. Unfortunately, since she is not capable of that her acting skills went into hyperdrive and she overdid it. When ashton speaks of being physically restrained she grabs her arm instinctually. When he starts talking about chloroform she looks enraged,as if shes saying,that's wrong!!! When he starts talking about the duct tape she closes her eyes and looks down. I believe she is at that moment visualizing everything and she is horrified that they have her figured out. During the entire describing of what Caylee went through she is hiding her face and looking down. That's actually seems like shame to me. While ICA is trying her hardest to seem overly emotional about her daughters death, her body language screams guilty.
    ETA: and remember this was the hearing seeking the death penalty so she had to lay it on thick to try and save her own keister. Now im convinced more than ever that this was an act. A bad one at that.
    BBM
    Agree with this 100%. I really don't think it was an act, however. I think it was the 1st time she heard someone describe to a "T" what she did and she couldn't handle hearing the truth!

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  17. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by bananarama View Post
    BBM
    Agree with this 100%. I really don't think it was an act, however. I think it was the 1st time she heard someone describe to a "T" what she did and she couldn't handle hearing the truth!
    I agree as well. I believe it started off as an act, but THAT moment, when she bows her head down, is the only thing i have ever seen from her that seemed real??? The rest, though, is for show. What she thinks she should act like if she was a grieving mother, but since she really isnt it comes out all wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baznme View Post
    She almost gave herself away in this video crying in court, shaking her head "no" when JA was describing his theory as to what ICA had done and LKB takes her arm to get her to stop reacting. Apparantly, JA has something wrong in his theory and she knows that's not the way it happened. I do believe she showed emotion here but only out of frustration because she CAN'T tell her version.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Whamj...yer_detailpage
    The only time I have ever seen her show emotion has been when her freedom and liberties are threatened.

    eg-'my whole life has been taken from me...' and various other instances during the jail videos where her folks were talking about all of the things they were able to do that were 'taken' from her.

    She also cried a bit when JB was giving his statement the day KC was finally arrested. He was talking about HER and the people who love HER.

    Then, of course, in this video, where they are discussing the big bad DP.

    She is disgusting. I hate to say 'hate' about a person, but I don't think she is capable of being liked. No one is going to have sympathy for her in the trial.
    The above is my opinion only based on published accounts of the case.

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  21. #86
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    What I noticed was up to the point where JB leans over and says something to KC she was angry to the point where she appeared to be ready to get physical. After JB talks to her a second her expression slowly turns and she hides her face. I still don't get the eye jabs with her fingers. If you are truly crying your fingers are not in your eyes. The tears stream down your face....we never see that with KC. Just an expression as if she were crying and those fingers jabbing at her eye sockets. And she's FOREVER checking her fingers as if she expects to see mascara on them. jmo

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  23. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baznme View Post
    She almost gave herself away in this video crying in court, shaking her head "no" when JA was describing his theory as to what ICA had done and LKB takes her arm to get her to stop reacting. Apparantly, JA has something wrong in his theory and she knows that's not the way it happened. I do believe she showed emotion here but only out of frustration because she CAN'T tell her version.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Whamj...yer_detailpage
    I'm wondering if it was actually one of them - AL or JB saying to her - if you start hyperventilating again like you did at the jail, I am going to smack you - this is your cue to start sobbing!

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    I watched a program last night called "Inside the Mind of Joran Van Der Sloot" and they had a psychiatrist commenting.....I must say, everything he said about Joran being a sociopath, narcissictic personalty, etc. fit ICA to a tee. He talked about these type people (including Ted Bundy) and how they cannot "bond" with anybody, but that for some reason people gravitate toward them. They are often charming, funny etc. but behind the mask they just do not have the same feelings as most people. I know we have talked about all of this before, but it is shocking to me that the exact same correlations can be made from Ted Bundy to ICA.

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  27. #89
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    I saw anger just before JB spoke to her. She may have been crying, but not for Caylee. I think she may be sorry for what she did - not because Caylee is gone, but because she got caught. In hindsight, she may realize it would have been so much easier to give her baby to CA and just take off with Amy's money instead of waiting for TonE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TotallyObsessed View Post
    I watched a program last night called "Inside the Mind of Joran Van Der Sloot" and they had a psychiatrist commenting.....I must say, everything he said about Joran being a sociopath, narcissictic personalty, etc. fit ICA to a tee. He talked about these type people (including Ted Bundy) and how they cannot "bond" with anybody, but that for some reason people gravitate toward them. They are often charming, funny etc. but behind the mask they just do not have the same feelings as most people. I know we have talked about all of this before, but it is shocking to me that the exact same correlations can be made from Ted Bundy to ICA.
    You brought up an interesting thought for me in regard to the bonding. I always thought that was a strange thing for Cindy to say about Casey and Caylee, off bonding. I do think Cindy noticed that Casey was not maternal type mother material from her interactions with Caylee on a daily basis. As a mother Cindy herself had experienced that instinct and noticed it lacking with Casey. I myself see it all too often viewing the various tragedies we read about daily here and even know a few of these type mothers myself.

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  31. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by strach304 View Post
    You brought up an interesting thought for me in regard to the bonding. I always thought that was a strange thing for Cindy to say about Casey and Caylee, off bonding. I do think Cindy noticed that Casey was not maternal type mother material from her interactions with Caylee on a daily basis. As a mother Cindy herself had experienced that instinct and noticed it lacking with Casey. I myself see it all too often viewing the various tragedies we read about daily here and even know a few of these type mothers myself.
    Yes, and it could explain the whole "KC was jealous when Caylee was born and placed in CA's arms, instead of hers".....Perhaps KC recognized that she never felt anything normal for Caylee and she blamed it on not "bonding" with her at the moment of birth. PERHAPS it was something much deeper, like being a sociopath incapable of those feelings.

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  33. #92
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    I wanted to bump this thread. This is disturbing to me. Casey is listening to all this info today about human decomp, it is referrring to her baby. HER BABY ! How can she not be upset ? I am sick over some of the testimony, knowing that Dr. Vass is speaking about little Caylee's decomposing body. Seriously, she is disassociating. How ?? Can meds have this effect ? She is capable of emotion. She LOVED Tony L. How can she turn on and off her emotions, especially when she is listening to the horrors of what happened to Caylee.? But she sheds tears about other issues. Something is not right .

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  35. #93
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    She's a sociopath so I don't expect to see anything remotely normal in her emotions. When she has them, when she doesn't...doesn't seem to correlate with what normal people, like WS posters, would display. Therefore, not seeing her react during testimony that would make any of us cry, doesn't surprise me. She's like a robot. Whatever feelings she has are only for herself.

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  37. #94
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    I wonder if she was always like this . I am over-emotional at times. I cry over oreo commercials. (some of them are so adorable) My oldest daughter is exactly like me. My youngest isn't as emotional as us, but she tries to give all her money to animal shelters. (and our money too ) . But if Casey has been void of feelings, was she ever concerned about it ?

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    Always a sociopath? I'm sure she was. She has a wide variety of emotional behaviors, some being outbursts, but true emotions? Not so much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovi Girl View Post
    I wonder if she was always like this . I am over-emotional at times. I cry over oreo commercials. (some of them are so adorable) My oldest daughter is exactly like me. My youngest isn't as emotional as us, but she tries to give all her money to animal shelters. (and our money too ) . But if Casey has been void of feelings, was she ever concerned about it ?
    Cry over Oreo commercials? Okay, I can see that. How are you during the ones where they show the dogs and cats in the shelters?

    I never cry. But I'm told that's because of Prozac which I have taken for years. But, I do feel sadness and do react to things most sane people would find difficult to face. I certainly don't shug things off. I do believe ICA has always been this way, Jovi Girl. And I think for myself, I see that ICA only seems to react with tears (by sticking her finger in her eye) when it concerns herself. But I also see that when she does cry or act sad, there's always a hint of anger.
    jmo
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  43. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mariah View Post
    Personality disorders do not constitute a break with reality, that is, they know the difference between right and wrong. Personality disordered persons don't have delusions or hallucinations that lead them to murder an innocent person. They murder because NO ONE matters to them and there is no defense of diminshed capacity.....they know exactly what they are doing and why. IMO of course
    ITA with you. Just want to add one thing that my husband and I were told when we were dealing with a relative who had been diagnosed with a personality disorder(by psychiatrist and via use of MMPI test). I can still hear this psychiatrist tell us that once he gets a clear picture of a diagnosis of personality disorder he will advise the family that this is NOT a treatable condition- not with meds or with therapy. He said the reason that a personality disorder is not treatable us that people with personality disorders have absolutely NO insight into their behavior, and insight into one's own behavior is mandatory for improvement/change to occur.

    He also said that the family members who must deal with this person benefit from therapy even though the personality disordered person does not. He further told us that keeping limits, learning not how to be manipulated are key for people who have a personality disordered person in their life.

    Dr. Also made a point of telling us that some psychiatrists previously thought that personality disorders get better as people age, but that is no longer thought. Instead, the Dr. said that people with personality disorders become conditioned to others' responses to them over the years. This causes them to change their behavior because they have learned through experience what has caused people to break away from them, and also because they abandon behavior that does't work, and instead get better at manipulating people in ways that do work. Even at the age of 50, or so, these people have no further capacity for emotion or insight than they did at 20. The difference is the years of experience, and learning from that experience what works and what doesn't. On a purely emotional basis they just do 't get it. This psychiatrist helped us greatly.
    Last edited by Kateyes; 06-06-2011 at 03:52 PM. Reason: Edit for typo

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  45. #98
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    Good thread

    I wish a talented WS member could post a side-by-side collage of screenshots of ICA <WITH JURY PRESENT> versus <WHEN NO JURY IS PRESENT.> The blatant contrast in posture, demeanor, facial expression, energy level, body language, gestures, mood, everything... is like night and day. Unbelievable. What an act.

    KC's bizarre lack of normal human reaction is HUGE, and has been a problem for the defense. It clearly paints her as a sociopath. JB has tried to account for it by attributing it to PTSD or a dissociative reaction to having been "abused." ICA has obviously been coached to keep still and keep a straight face in court. He is counting on this tactic, plus keeping out most of her "prior bad acts." This woman is a monster who has left a wake of destruction, despair, and broken hearts behind her, and simply could not care less.

    Her DT have had witnesses describe KC's lack of reaction, and her "flat affect," and have pointed out her similar demeanor as she sits there at the defense table "on trial for her life." Wouldn't it be something if the State could petition to introduce new evidence in response to this? Because all this jury has seen is KC's silent, pouty boo-boo face, her "oh no" headshake in response to damning evidence, an oddly raised eyebrow, and a few strategic semi-verklempt moments. The tiny little vulnerable defendant, hands in her lap, frumpy and meek and serious... that is what they have seen.

    Can you imagine how eye-opening it would be to show the jury a one- or two- minute video montage of moments captured in court before they are brought in, and once they are safely out of sight? That is when she unleashes the "real" Casey: The animated behavior. The intense rapid nodding and sky-high eyebrow raises, the flashes of anger and disdain and amusement. The toddler-level meltdowns. The jabbing and slicing and expansive gestures with hands and arms. The leaning, the reaching, the poking, the pointing. The come-here finger crooking. The 'I'm in charge' swagger. The flirtatious smile and wide eyes. The giggling. The big grins. The hip-rolling 'I'm a celebrity' strut.

    ICA instantly lights up like a malignant Christmas tree outside the presence of the people who will decide her fate. I wish there was some way for them to see that.
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  47. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capri View Post
    Dissociation may be related to her personality disorders. We haven't heard the psych reports yet, but she's got some definite personality disorders, many of which probably include dissociation. If she feels no guilt, why would she have a reaction? She wouldn't, unless she is immitating someone that she has seen do it in the past, or if she knows that's expected. If she's a psychopath she's emotionally shallow, and just doesn't feel it, rather than dissociating, and trying to separate from the feeling, if that makes sense.
    BBM Yes

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  49. #100
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    I have always felt that Casey is just very cold person and cares for no one but herself. She is all about "ME" all the time. She seems to crave attention and she couldn't get all the attention that she so craved from men because it is really hard to go out partying all the time when you have a small child. She only cries when it is about HER and not Caylee. Caylee was a thorn in her side. Casey is a heartless human being.

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