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  1. #331
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    A few posts back, there was talk of evidence and/or lack of evidence. This what compelled me to come here and post my story of what happened to me in Springfield 1989. IF my friend and I had never been seen again after that night, the evidence would have been at a second location...a location that I can't even give you the address for. I do believe that there is a second location in this case...an apt an/or home.


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  3. #332
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    Quote Originally Posted by monkeymann View Post
    Janelle stated in the Discovered Video that came out recently, that they "She and Mike" had never been to the house prior to the two of them going over there at aprox. 12:30pm on 6/7/1992.
    I may be reading too much into this, but how did they know where she lived? I suppose an address could be found in the phone book, but they'd just moved. From what I've seen in interviews, it doesn't seem like janelle cared much for Suzie. And, Suzie & Sherills home was in a different school district, so it seems even less likely that Janelle and/or Mike were riding around the block one day with someone who casually pointed out that Suzie lives there.

    Other than kids who rode the same bus as I did or lived across the street/next door to friends/family, I really had no clue where mere acquaintances of mine in high school lived.


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  5. #333
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    We need to remember that they all still lived in the same school district. Suzie didn't move clear across town. Sherill used to live in a bigger home near the neighborhood where SM and JK lived and everyone knew how to get to certain areas. If Suzie said we live at Glenstone and Delmar, everyone would know where to go.

    These kids were passed riding the bus.


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  7. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missouri Mule View Post
    For some reason I had it in my mind that there was an overnight bag but in rereading some older threads apparently there was not. (So my post #310 is inaccurate) So we have to conclude that her make-up, her medication and other personal effects were in her purse which was left behind.

    I'm sure this was asked and answered previously but wouldn't she logically have had a change of clothing either in her car or in an overnight bag that was not in evidence? She had been out all night and I would think she would not wish to put on soiled clothing, underwear and the like after leaving Branson. If on the other hand, she did have an overnight bag that was inspected and the bathing suit cast aside, one wonders what might have been in the bag, if it existed at all.

    Just seems a little odd to me. When I go to the gym to do a workout I carry along a change of underwear as perspiration becomes uncomfortable. This occurred in June and the temperatures must have been in the 80s or so and I would think she would want to change into clean clothing and underwear. I don't know what, if anything, this tells us.
    I agree... You would think that if the plan had originally been to stay at a hotel, and if those plans only changed at aprox. 10:30pm(ish) when Stacy called her mother to inform her that they had changed plans and that she was staying at Janelles instead, you'd think that she would have already had a bag packed for the anticipated stay at the Branson Motel. I wonder if it was in the car and was just never made public as part of the investigation, or if it was taken with them for what ever reason, when they abducted the women.


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  9. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by monkeymann View Post
    I agree... You would think that if the plan had originally been to stay at a hotel, and if those plans only changed at aprox. 10:30pm(ish) when Stacy called her mother to inform her that they had changed plans and that she was staying at Janelles instead, you'd think that she would have already had a bag packed for the anticipated stay at the Branson Motel. I wonder if it was in the car and was just never made public as part of the investigation, or if it was taken with them for what ever reason, when they abducted the women.
    Ok. In 1992, I had just turned 21 years old. I had been going to SMSU for about 3 years. When I was 18 and still under my parent's roof, I would not have told my mom that I was going out of town to Branson just to sneak out all night long. Why? Because Branson was like an hour or so away. Why not say I am spending the night with so and so. ALL moms would be ok with that. Being a teenager, this wouldn't have been the first time that any of these girls would have wanted to pull one over on their parents. I say that the Branson trip was definitely planned. It wasn't a story to pacify parents. What I want to know is what and/or who chaged these plans...given that the plans were loosely put together in the first place...


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  11. #336
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaliMama View Post
    I have heard a lot about body language over the years and while I agree that body language CAN be a tool to detect deception, I don't believe that it is accurate enough to be used in this manner. IMO, I think that it could be more accurately used with my 12 year old than an adult with many years of baggage.

    I went to SMSU to get a degree in psychology, and during those years, I learned that many of the things that people do unconsciously are aspects of defense mechanisms and learned behavior. I believe that a person's body language may just be the way they handle stressful situations and sometimes this body language may appear to be deceptive, but in many instances that is not the case at all. That is why it is not admissible in court and neither is a polygraph.

    I think that everyone involved in this case probably feels that they need to defend and protect themselves after all of the finger pointing and scrutiny for the past 20 years. This desire would most definitely show up in their body language.
    Without meaning any disrespect I totally disagree.

    1.) All people utilize "Defense Mechanisms" for the sake of self preservation. Defense Mechanisms can be manifested in many ways. One way is Avoidance. One way is Aggression. One way is Denial. One way is Redirection/Displacement....and.....One way is LIEING.

    2.) Comparing Kinetic Body Language Reactions is a much more reliable method of detecting deception, then the polygraph has ever been. That's why using "Body Language" in the course of interrogations is used much more to solve cases than Polygraphs. Also, Polygraphs are an "Investigative Tool", not a means to an end. Much in the same way that utilizing Body Language Analyzation is an "Investigative Tool" but in a different way. They use polygraphs to help detect deception, then they go back in and interigate the person more on the area that the polygraph showed deception in.

    3.) With that said though, Body Language can tell you a lot. Your statement about it being more of a proactive tool on a 12yr old, then an adult with a lot of baggage is true in that a 12yr old may be easier to read right out of the gate. But on the contrary, Law Enforcement utilize Analyzation of Body Language as a MAJOR INVESTIGATIVE TOOL in Adults......every day!!

    4.) The Conscious Mind and Subconscious mind are in a constant battle over truth and lies. The Subconscious Mind ALWAYS knows what the truth is and WILL ALWAYS fight the Conscious Mind if the Conscious Mind is trying to state something that the Subconscious Mind knows isn't true. That's where you get the Body Language from. It is the constant struggle between a person trying to force their body to convey something that their mind knows is not true.

    5.) Micro Expressions are another part of Kinetic Body Language. They are more subtle reactions our body makes to things we know are lies. They can be expressed in Bodily Reactions....They can also be expressed in Verbal Slip Ups, or Tonality. They can be a "Blink" a person makes when they say a certain word....or their blink rate when a certain topic is discussed.

    6.) Its not just the "ONE" expression. Or the "ONE" strange reaction. Its the totality of the reactions, that were observed.

    I know you said that you studied Psychology which is respectable.....but I think you should study the area of Kinetic Body Language more....Its really much much much more than just being able to tell if the 12yr old is lying. A good investigator can spot a lie a mile away based on Kinetic Body Language. And its much harder to lie with out detection....than you think!!


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  13. #337
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaliMama View Post
    Hmmm...am I the only one to notice that Bartt Streeter's post is gone?
    Yea...He's very quick to get Aggressive....But not so quick to answer the 15+times I've asked what his alibi was, who vouched for him, what his movements were, and who his friends were at the time....JUST so I could eliminate him once and for all, as well as get an idea of who he knew that may have had a connection to others.....Trust Me When I Say....I would love to believe that Bartt had NOTHING to do with this crime. But apparently he'd rather get aggressive with me, than answer a couple simple questions and try and help. And if he was totally eliminated as a suspect.....who does he think did it....I would think if anyone knew who his mother and sister were involved with, hung out with, extended friends were....it would be Bartt. But he won't answer any of questions and would rather just get Aggressive.
    Last edited by monkeymann; 01-02-2012 at 12:18 AM.


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  15. #338
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaliMama View Post
    We need to remember that they all still lived in the same school district. Suzie didn't move clear across town. Sherill used to live in a bigger home near the neighborhood where SM and JK lived and everyone knew how to get to certain areas. If Suzie said we live at Glenstone and Delmar, everyone would know where to go.

    These kids were passed riding the bus.
    In post #124 of this thread, I posted the school district information. I'm guessing that either Suzie didn't inform the district that she had moved or that they let it slide since she was close to graduation.

    I agree that they were past riding the bus, and this paired with Suzie living out of district, and Janelle not really being friends with Suzie makes me question how J&M knew where the house was. I agree that if Janelle knew the cross streets that the cars in the drive would give it away, I was just saying that based on my experience, loose friends really don't keep tabs on where the other lives, especially if they just moved 3 months prior.


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  17. #339
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    I find anything surrounding Bartt highly interesting. If Bartt DIDN'T DO THIS, I'm deeply sorry for every thinking it was him as his innocence would show he's been through a LOT. More than I could ever know.

    But for the sake of solving this case, ruling him out would be ABSURD.

    I noticed he's coming on to this site. He's closing down his blog. He's lashing out at Detective Asher (post was deleted but it is archived on Google still). I believe it was Richard who said "contrived indignation" is a dead giveaway. I don't agree with Richard (Missouri Mule) much at all, but he has a good point there.

    There's some things that tell me Bartt or his friends weren't behind this either. The money mainly. But if this was NOT a SEX crime nor a GREED crime, then revenge or jealousy would be next in line. Bartt, with his drinking and erratic behavior in the months prior to June 1992 could show that as a possibility. Regardless, something unexpected happen. It's shown in the way the house was left, and the fact that the girls had just underwear and t-shirts on. Could someone have picked up Sherrill? Then was waiting for the girls to get home?

    Bartt if you find this very disturbing, please, by all means, come answer some questions we have. Otherwise we're not ruling you out. I want to know where exactly you were that night and who vouched for your alibi. And I want to know what questions were asked during your polygraph.


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  19. #340
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    It's also a joke that Kathee Baird hasn't publicly shared all her tips and leads on this crime. The police should give her a swift kick in the ass for obstruction of justice for her handling of some of this case and the parking garage nonsense.

    Please Kathee, this is almost 20 years old, DO THE RIGHT THING!


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  21. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by monkeymann View Post
    Without meaning any disrespect I totally disagree.

    1.) All people utilize "Defense Mechanisms" for the sake of self preservation. Defense Mechanisms can be manifested in many ways. One way is Avoidance. One way is Aggression. One way is denial. One way is redirection. One way is LIEING.

    2.) Comparing Kinetic Body Language Reactions is a much more reliable method of detecting deception, then the polygraph has ever been. That's why using "Body Language" in the course of interrogations is used much more to solve cases than Polygraphs. Also, Polygraphs are an "Investigative Tool", not a means to an end. Much in the same way that utilizing Body Language Analyzation is an "Investigative Tool".


    3.) With that said though, Body Language can tell you a lot. Your statement about it being more of a proactive tool on a 12yr old, then an adult with a lot of baggage is true in that a 12yr old may be easier to read right out of the gate. But on the contrary, Law Enforcement utilize Analyzation of Body Language as a MAJOR INVESTIGATIVE TOOL in Adults......every day!!

    4.) The Conscious Mind and Subconscious mind are in a constant battle over truth and lies. The Subconscious Mind ALWAYS knows what the truth is and ALWAYS is fighting the Conscious Mind if the Conscious Mind is trying to state something that isn't true. That's where you get the Body Language from. It is the constant struggle between a person trying to force their body to convey something that their mind knows is not true.

    5.) Micro Expressions are another part of Kinetic Body Language. They are more subtle reactions our body makes to things we know are lies. They can be expressed in Bodily Reactions....They can also be expressed in Verbal Slip Ups, or Tonality. That's why they also use Voice Stress Recognition as an Investigative Tool.

    6.) Its not just the "ONE" expression. Or the "ONE" strange reaction. Its the totality of the reactions, and the reactions that were used.

    I know you said that you studied Psychology which is respectable.....but I think you should study the area of Kinetic Body Language more....Its really much much much more than just being able to tell if the 12yr old is lying. A good investigator can spot a lie a mile away based on Kinetic Body Language.
    I have a degree in Psychology. I didn't just study Psychology. However, I am intrigued with the Kinetic Body Language. I still think that it isn't a valid tool for assessing deception because human beings are complex creatures...


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  23. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by _mb_ View Post
    I may be reading too much into this, but how did they know where she lived? I suppose an address could be found in the phone book, but they'd just moved. From what I've seen in interviews, it doesn't seem like janelle cared much for Suzie. And, Suzie & Sherills home was in a different school district, so it seems even less likely that Janelle and/or Mike were riding around the block one day with someone who casually pointed out that Suzie lives there.

    Other than kids who rode the same bus as I did or lived across the street/next door to friends/family, I really had no clue where mere acquaintances of mine in high school lived.
    The only way I would think they would have known is that Janelle "Knew the address, or, had Directions" to Susies house. May be Susie gave Janelle her address before she left Janelles house that night? However that does bring up a good point.....If Janelle was suppose to call them in the morning like she says, then why would Susie have given her her address? Unless, the plan was to meet at Susies house.....but we don't know that, because the story begins and ends with Susie/Stacy telling Janelle to call them when she go up.....may be she wrote her phone number down with her address too.


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  25. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaliMama View Post
    I have a degree in Psychology. I didn't just study Psychology. However, I am intrigued with the Kinetic Body Language. I still think that it isn't a valid tool for assessing deception because human beings are complex creatures...
    Well if you have a degree in Psychology I would think you'd be inclined to agree with me. Why do police use it EVERY DAY... from out in the field as a Patrol Officer, to in the Detectives in the Interrogation Rooms, if it wasn't a valid tool for assessing deception. It was the Psychology field that first really studied Kinetic Body Language, Micro-expressions, and the idiosyncrasies of the Brain as it pertains to the battle between the conscious brain and the subconscious brain. Granted, its best utilized when a "Baseline" can be established, but most people give themselves away in one way or another. It might not be admissible in a court of law....but their body language typically gives their truth or lie away every time.

    I will give you this though.....people who have sociopathic tendencies can also be pathological liars that are quite skilled at lying......because they are so detached in the head that they don't necessarily believe the lie, but they don't care. Their brains have a defect that causes it to either not care, or have the ability to consciously or subconsciously shut off the ability of the mind to care about not being truthful. Basically, they don't act like a typically person who lies...acts!! Huge degree of detachment.


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  27. #344
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    [QUOTE=HmmWhoKnows;7479202]I find anything surrounding Bartt highly interesting. If Bartt DIDN'T DO THIS, I'm deeply sorry for every thinking it was him as his innocence would show he's been through a LOT. More than I could ever know.

    But for the sake of solving this case, ruling him out would be ABSURD.

    I noticed he's coming on to this site. He's closing down his blog. He's lashing out at Detective Asher (post was deleted but it is archived on Google still). I believe it was Richard who said "contrived indignation" is a dead giveaway. I don't agree with Richard (Missouri Mule) much at all, but he has a good point there.

    There's some things that tell me Bartt or his friends weren't behind this either. The money mainly. But if this was NOT a SEX crime nor a GREED crime, then revenge or jealousy would be next in line. Bartt, with his drinking and erratic behavior in the months prior to June 1992 could show that as a possibility. Regardless, something unexpected happen. It's shown in the way the house was left, and the fact that the girls had just underwear and t-shirts on. Could someone have picked up Sherrill? Then was waiting for the girls to get home?

    Bartt if you find this very disturbing, please, by all means, come answer some questions we have. Otherwise we're not ruling you out. I want to know where exactly you were that night and who vouched for your alibi. And I ?

    Why do you believe that this was not a sex crime?


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  29. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by monkeymann View Post
    Well if you have a degree in Psychology I would think you'd be inclined to agree with me. Why do police use it EVERY DAY... from out in the field as a Patrol Officer, to in the Detectives in the Interrogation Rooms, if it wasn't a valid tool for assessing deception. It was the Psychology field that first really studied Kinetic Body Language, Micro-expressions, and the idiosyncrasies of the Brain as it pertains to the battle between the conscious brain and the subconscious brain. Granted, its best utilized when a "Baseline" can be established, but most people give themselves away in one way or another. It might not be admissible in a court of law....but their body language typically gives their truth or lie away every time.

    I will give you this though.....people who have sociopathic tendencies can also be pathological liars that are quite skilled at lying......because they are so detached in the head that they don't necessarily believe the lie, but they don't care. Their brains have a defect that causes it to either not care, or have the ability to consciously or subconsciously shut off the ability of the mind to care about not being truthful. Basically, they don't act like a typically person who lies...acts!! Huge degree of detachment.
    Police use this as a preliminary tool NOT because they have a degree in psychology, but because they need something to guide them initially. I might add, that LE are often very wrong in their assumptions AND I am a daughter of LE...my stepfather used the same tools on me and he was always wrong. Sometimes people are just afraid of being in trouble and all of those red flags start to show themselves.


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