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  1. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by HmmWhoKnows View Post
    It's also a joke that Kathee Baird hasn't publicly shared all her tips and leads on this crime. The police should give her a swift kick in the ass for obstruction of justice for her handling of some of this case and the parking garage nonsense.

    Please Kathee, this is almost 20 years old, DO THE RIGHT THING!
    TELL ME ABOUT IT!!!!

    I am so sick of Kathee not just sharing information about the case better....or just "Piece Mealing" it out. If she is the "Central Repository" for the information, and "Everything" seems to need to be "Cleared" through her......I wish she would ALSO.....help be a better part of the case and devulge the information that she knows. She could have the missing piece of the puzzle and not even know it. Plus its UTTERLY UNFARE to all the rest of us who are serious about this case, and put in hours worth of discussion, but she seldom participates.

    It almost makes me want to launch an ad campaign regarding the case again....only this time run it on an extended basis...put it back into the publics eyes bigger then it ever has been, with a tip line, and a new web site, get bill boards, bags stuffed with flyers at walmart, ads in local papers, mailers, door to door, businesses, etc......And just see what come in. A person could probably got most of the advertisment for free....if not deeply discounted.

    A group of private (US) investigators could be established to field calls, catalog tips, etc. The case is really not out in the publics eye anymore.....I truely feel that if the case WERE out in the publics eye for an EXTENDED DURATION, we might be surprised with the tips that we get that might confirm or dispell what we already know......or more! Just a thought.


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  3. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by monkeymann View Post
    I agree... You would think that if the plan had originally been to stay at a hotel, and if those plans only changed at aprox. 10:30pm(ish) when Stacy called her mother to inform her that they had changed plans and that she was staying at Janelles instead, you'd think that she would have already had a bag packed for the anticipated stay at the Branson Motel. I wonder if it was in the car and was just never made public as part of the investigation, or if it was taken with them for what ever reason, when they abducted the women.
    This is exactly what I was wondering about. Isn't it odd that Suzie had an overnight bag packed according to the media but Stacy did not? Not to create a further tempest in a teapot wouldn't her mother have known if such a bag existed when Stacy left their home that day? The only two alternative explanations I can think of is it being in the car or that it was taken during the abduction. If so, why? It just doesn't seem reasonable she didn't have one packed and ready to go with her. One wonders why the police couldn't address these seemingly insignificant details to remove suspicion from people who are innocent of any part of this crime.

    "The three women's purses were all together, Stacy's sitting on Suzie's overnight bag.
"
    "Never answer an anonymous letter"

    "I didn't really say everything I said"

    Yogi Berra




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  5. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaliMama View Post
    Police use this as a preliminary tool NOT because they have a degree in psychology, but because they need something to guide them initially. I might add, that LE are often very wrong in their assumptions AND I am a daughter of LE...my stepfather used the same tools on me and he was always wrong. Sometimes people are just afraid of being in trouble and all of those red flags start to show themselves.
    They don't need a "Degree" in psychology to utilize Kinetic Body Language as an investigative tool. Police do it every day.....you don't need a degree to know if someone is lying. It also doesn't take a degree in psychology to understand the dynamics of similar behavioral reaction triggers. It also doesn't take a degree in psychology to understand that Kinetic Body Language is a "PROVEN SCIENCE", that when utilized properly, can be a very very effective tool in detecting truthfulness or deception.
    FYI....Patrol Officers rely on being able to read a persons Kinetic Body Language EVERY DAY! Watch a few episodes of Cops, or similar shows, watch how they ALL utilize a series of "Field Interrogation" techniques, many of which involve Kinetic Body Language.
    Don't be so dismissive of it.......No disrespect....BUT Police Rely on it in the field EVERYDAY to solve crimes! And it IS a PROVEN SCIENCE!
    Last edited by monkeymann; 01-02-2012 at 01:57 AM.


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  7. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by monkeymann View Post
    They don't need a "Degree" in psychology to utilize Kinetic Body Language as an investigative tool. Police do it every day.....you don't need a degree to know if someone is lying. It also doesn't take a degree in psychology to understand the dynamics of similar behavioral reaction triggers. It also doesn't take a degree in psychology to understand that Kinetic Body Language is a "PROVEN SCIENCE", that when utilized properly, can be a very very effective tool in detecting truthfulness or deception.
    FYI....Patrol Officers rely on being able to read a persons Kinetic Body Language EVERY DAY! Watch a few episodes of Cops, or similar shows, watch how they ALL utilize a series of "Field Interrogation" techniques, many of which involve Kinetic Body Language.
    Don't be so dismissive of it.......No disrespect....BUT Police Rely on it in the field EVERYDAY to solve crimes! And it IS a PROVEN SCIENCE!
    This will be the end of this argument. I said that it was a preliminary tool for law enforcement. I do not agree that it should be used as a "lie detector". Period. The reason why is because of the reasons that I gave you previously. Period. It is not a proven science or it would be admissible in court. Once it becomes admissible, we can further this discussion. I do want to say that I respect your opinion and dedication and my words and opinions aren't meant to hurt or anger you in anyway. I just disagree. (sorry)


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  9. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by monkeymann View Post
    Yea...He's very quick to get Aggressive....But not so quick to answer the 15+times I've asked what his alibi was, who vouched for him, what his movements were, and who his friends were at the time....JUST so I could eliminate him once and for all, as well as get an idea of who he knew that may have had a connection to others.....Trust Me When I Say....I would love to believe that Bartt had NOTHING to do with this crime. But apparently he'd rather get aggressive with me, than answer a couple simple questions and try and help. And if he was totally eliminated as a suspect.....who does he think did it....I would think if anyone knew who his mother and sister were involved with, hung out with, extended friends were....it would be Bartt. But he won't answer any of questions and would rather just get Aggressive.
    I understand. But what if he really doesn't have an alibi? Does that make him guilty? My husband and I watched Disappeared together the other night. I have no idea what I was doing that night, but that doesn't makeme guilty of anything. And by the way, if I had lived with my brother, oh boy...we would have gotten into some really bad fights too. I am just trying to see things from a practical perspective.


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  11. #351
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    Did you read about what happened to my friend and I in Springfield (Fall of 1989)? If so, do you think that this is a normal experience for 18 year old girls? I am just wondering if other people have ever had this experience; guys and girls. If not, I really would like this avenue to be explored.


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  13. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by _mb_ View Post
    In post #124 of this thread, I posted the school district information. I'm guessing that either Suzie didn't inform the district that she had moved or that they let it slide since she was close to graduation.

    I agree that they were past riding the bus, and this paired with Suzie living out of district, and Janelle not really being friends with Suzie makes me question how J&M knew where the house was. I agree that if Janelle knew the cross streets that the cars in the drive would give it away, I was just saying that based on my experience, loose friends really don't keep tabs on where the other lives, especially if they just moved 3 months prior.
    Thank you and you are right, she was probably allowed to finish out at her previous school district (sorry about that and thank you for the research).

    In high school, I was the kind of girl that was friends with kids from every crowd. I think that Stacy must have had a bond with Suzie that Janelle didn't...I had many friends like that. There were friends that I was close and and then other friends that I hung out with because they were a friend of a friend. It was actually complicated sometimes.

    Their relationship really doesn't really cause me to lose any sleep because I SO remember the same kind of situation when I was a teenager.


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  15. #353
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    I'd like us all to channel our 18 year old selves. Didn't we always know where all of the parties were? Didn't we always know where someone lived if we had to go there? We just knew these things. 1717 Delmar isn't that hard of an address to remember. I think once people take the focus off of this, things will flow more freely.


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  17. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missouri Mule View Post
    This is exactly what I was wondering about. Isn't it odd that Suzie had an overnight bag packed according to the media but Stacy did not? Not to create a further tempest in a teapot wouldn't her mother have known if such a bag existed when Stacy left their home that day? The only two alternative explanations I can think of is it being in the car or that it was taken during the abduction. If so, why? It just doesn't seem reasonable she didn't have one packed and ready to go with her. One wonders why the police couldn't address these seemingly insignificant details to remove suspicion from people who are innocent of any part of this crime.

    "The three women's purses were all together, Stacy's sitting on Suzie's overnight bag.
"
    Gosh one more thing. You guys are going to get tired of me! Girls share a lot of things...clothes, makeup (probably not swimsuits)...so whatever was in Suzie's bag could have also been for Stacy.


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  19. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by HmmWhoKnows View Post
    It's also a joke that Kathee Baird hasn't publicly shared all her tips and leads on this crime. The police should give her a swift kick in the ass for obstruction of justice for her handling of some of this case and the parking garage nonsense.

    Please Kathee, this is almost 20 years old, DO THE RIGHT THING!
    I will side with Kathee. You can not get cooperative interviews and testimony for the record from friends and witnesses of the victims and to events prior without their trust and confidence. Many of these same friends and witnesses have tried to help by coming on these boards anonymously but have been driven off by all the baloney coming from people who have no idea what these victims and friends /witnesses are/were really like. You have to follow evidence. The idea of this big "think tank" just doesn't work.

    Peoples adult lives and reputations are being tainted here by posters who have no evidence what so ever. Why would you ever expect them to cooperate with anyone other than LE?
    “Finding the occasional straw of truth awash in a great ocean of confusion and bamboozle requires intelligence, vigilance, dedication and courage. But if we don’t practice these tough habits of thought, we cannot hope to solve the truly serious problems that face us – and we risk becoming a nation of suckers, up for grabs by the next charlatan who comes along.” – Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection


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  21. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by monkeymann View Post
    I agree... You would think that if the plan had originally been to stay at a hotel, and if those plans only changed at aprox. 10:30pm(ish) when Stacy called her mother to inform her that they had changed plans and that she was staying at Janelles instead, you'd think that she would have already had a bag packed for the anticipated stay at the Branson Motel. I wonder if it was in the car and was just never made public as part of the investigation, or if it was taken with them for what ever reason, when they abducted the women.
    Any Branson plans still in place were dead by 8:30 pm for sure when Suzie and Stacy are looking for a place to spend the night, asking Brian Joy if they can spend it at his house. I think the whole idea of spending the night in Branson was something that came up earlier in the week and the idea was to drive to Branson around 6:30 pm after the graduation ceremonies were over, and party there. When the 4th girl invited could not go and with the idea that there might be parties in Springfield came up, the idea of driving to Branson that night was shelved.
    “Finding the occasional straw of truth awash in a great ocean of confusion and bamboozle requires intelligence, vigilance, dedication and courage. But if we don’t practice these tough habits of thought, we cannot hope to solve the truly serious problems that face us – and we risk becoming a nation of suckers, up for grabs by the next charlatan who comes along.” – Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection


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  23. #357
    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane View Post
    I will side with Kathee. You can not get cooperative interviews and testimony for the record from friends and witnesses of the victims and to events prior without their trust and confidence. Many of these same friends and witnesses have tried to help by coming on these boards anonymously but have been driven off by all the baloney coming from people who have no idea what these victims and friends /witnesses are/were really like. You have to follow evidence. The idea of this big "think tank" just doesn't work.

    Peoples adult lives and reputations are being tainted here by posters who have no evidence what so ever. Why would you ever expect them to cooperate with anyone other than LE?

    I could not agree more with Hurricane on this. I basically only read this board and do not post because of all the nonsense that goes on all in the name of "helping". If Kathee posted everything all her information would of come to a stand still a long time ago. You read on here a lot people calling on different people they have questions about to just tell them what happened. Would you want to do that to just be attacked whether you knew something or not. Almost 20 years of that has got to get to you. I think a lot of new people think just answer me, but don't realize that many have asked them the same thing and after 20 yrs it gets really old and I'm sure in most cases have already told the people that really need to know all that they do know and that is what matters.


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  25. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaliMama View Post
    Gosh one more thing. You guys are going to get tired of me! Girls share a lot of things...clothes, makeup (probably not swimsuits)...so whatever was in Suzie's bag could have also been for Stacy.
    I'm surprised to hear of the sharing of make-up but not being a girl I wouldn't know that. However, it is true that any clothes that Suzie had would not have fit Stacy. Mrs. McCall said that from the outset since Stacy's shorts had been left on the floor.

    This overnight bag business reminds me of an idea I floated a long time ago which I will now discuss. (laugh if you must) It had been suggested to me that Sherrill had been dealing primarily with cash leading up to the abductions that suggested she was trying to keep cash away from her creditors; that is not banking it that would be subject to garnishment since her former husband's creditors were hounding her for his unpaid bills she thought was taken care of by the divorce decree. (the divorce decree does not invalidate the contractual requirements of a loan contract).

    In 1992 there was a young lady I asked who had experience in the hair styling business and I was interested in how much money was possible to earn doing this kind of work. The response from her working Cabool was that $600 a week was fairly typical. If Sherrill was working in Springfield with a more affluent clientele and we know she had well over 200 clients it is possible, if not probable, that she earned well in excess of $600 but more on the order of perhaps $1,000 a week. That's not too shabby, especially for those days in a low cost area like Springfield. Yet, apparently she was living very close to the edge and not a great deal of money was evidently found in any bank accounts. Getting to the point, I have wondered if she had secreted money away in the dozens of shoes in her closet and wind of this "stash" had filtered out somehow and this might be the underlying motive behind this crime.

    Suppose that someone with a "need" for cash came into this knowledge and already had a motive to "settle scores" and decided to undertake a plan to get at this money, if it existed. It's a wild idea but I think a plausible idea. If that house was being surveiled prior to the abductions, exactly what was the purpose except to confirm the comings and goings of when it might be best to gain entry and see what monies were in the home? (of course the "sexual assault" angle must be taken into account) That overnight bag might have been used to carry out any money found. As an aside when my own home was burgled back in the 1970s the "pillow slip" bandits took a pillow slip off the bed to carry out the loot they found. That overnight bag would have worked quite nicely.

    Of course it could have been just a burglary gone bad as some have suggested, but why leave the money in her purse? Typical run of the mill burglars would not have done that.

    I'm just saying, what if?
    Last edited by Missouri Mule; 01-02-2012 at 01:51 PM.
    "Never answer an anonymous letter"

    "I didn't really say everything I said"

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  27. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by HmmWhoKnows View Post
    It's also a joke that Kathee Baird hasn't publicly shared all her tips and leads on this crime. The police should give her a swift kick in the ass for obstruction of justice for her handling of some of this case and the parking garage nonsense.

    Please Kathee, this is almost 20 years old, DO THE RIGHT THING!
    Hmm I havent been on here for a while, but it seems frustration would be driving this statement. Kathee cannot publicly share all her tips or their would not be any tips. Information she gets is confidential and she is good about keeping it that way. I personally believe any good information given should never see an open forum.


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  29. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trooogrit View Post
    Hmm I havent been on here for a while, but it seems frustration would be driving this statement. Kathee cannot publicly share all her tips or their would not be any tips. Information she gets is confidential and she is good about keeping it that way. I personally believe any good information given should never see an open forum.
    Some tips sure. I understand concealing identities. I get that. I guess I admit I have a bitter taste in my mouth towards Kathee because she could still answer questions about Bartt's alibi and who vouched for him. And because the parking garage stuff has taken this case a wrong direction IMO.


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