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  1. #61
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    Hi all! I've been stalking these boards for a long time, but have never really wanted to get involved in writing until now.

    I'll just jump right in where the conversation currently is. I have a hard time buying that Janelle was unaware that she would be having family coming in from out of town for her graduation. It's graduation, it's important, you remember if Uncle Bob who you haven't seen since Thanksgiving is coming and staying with you. Even if her mom had told her previously and she forgot until that morning, we know based on the Disappeared piece that all the girls went and had dinner with their respective families after the ceremony before getting back together for the parties. If nothing less, Janelle would have been reminded when being with visiting out-of-town guests for dinner that evening. Would she have really forgotten again between dinner and inviting Stacy to stay with her at some point later in the evening?

    The other suspicious thing about her story (well, there are many, but I'll just mention this one for now) is her assertion that when she got to the house and found the purses there and the front door unlocked and the light on, she thought that maybe they had just gone for a walk and so she sat and waited for them. Do any of you know a dog owner who goes for a walk around their neighborhood as a family on a nice summer morning and doesn't take their dog?
    Last edited by Jaya; 04-26-2011 at 02:13 PM. Reason: typo

  2. #62
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    Welcome to WS and the 3MW thread, Jaya.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaya View Post
    Hi all! I've been stalking these boards for a long time, but have never really wanted to get involved in writing until now.

    I'll just jump right in where the conversation currently is. I have a hard time buying that Janelle was unaware that she would be having family coming in from out of town for her graduation. It's graduation, it's important, you remember if Uncle Bob who you haven't seen since Thanksgiving is coming and staying with you. Even if her mom had told her previously and she forgot until that morning, we know based on the Disappeared piece that all the girls went and had dinner with their respective families after the ceremony before getting back together for the parties. If nothing less, Janelle would have been reminded when being with visiting out-of-town guests for dinner that evening. Would she have really forgotten again between dinner and inviting Stacy to stay with her at some point later in the evening?

    The other suspicious thing about her story (well, there are many, but I'll just mention this one for now) is her assertion that when she got to the house and found the purses there and the front door unlocked and the light on, she thought that maybe they had just gone for a walk and so she sat and waited for them. Do any of you know a dog owner who goes for a walk around their neighborhood as a family on a nice summer morning and doesn't take their dog?
    Not only that but a nervous dog left in the home is probably going to have an "accident" which most of us have experienced. The carpet was thoroughly cleaned when Sherill moved in. By all accounts that I believe are reliable, she was a good housekeeper. So would she logically leave the house with the dog unattended? I doubt it.

    What I find most disturbing is that the police for whatever reason didn't see fit to thoroughly document and investigate these stories to see if they held up under repeating questioning. One of the fundamental rules of investigation is that the people one associates with and their last actions are the best clues to determine what actually took place.

    A few years ago there was a video on the internet of her being interviewed and she was not a happy camper because she claimed the cops never talked to one another but asked her the same questions the previous cop asked her. In other words they were a bunch of dipsy doodles who didn't have sense to come in out of the rain to put it in plain terms. It sure would have been nice if at the beginning of this investigation that these stories had all been sorted out and verified. But that was never done. Instead the whole department was sent off chasing wild gooses, ghosts and goblins. It is not a big surprise this case is unsolved. This was a top down investigation run like no other according to the prior prosecutor. There is a cardinal management rule which applies.... "Authority can be delegated by a superior to a subordinate, Responsibility cannot be shifted and is absolute. It flows from top to bottom." This means that little to no authority was granted the experienced detectives to do their jobs. That's a recipe for disaster.
    "Never answer an anonymous letter"

    "I didn't really say everything I said"

    Yogi Berra



  4. #64
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    I would agree that most dog owners would take their dog along if going out for a walk. But it is also well documented that Sherrill had a doggie door installed in the kitchen which was still there recently. So I doubt that the dog had any “accidents” during the time it was left alone in the house to possibly be a sign as to something being wrong. And Janelle was curious as to why the dog was acting so nervous, jumping into her lap and wanting to be held. But that wouldn’t make most people at that point jump to the conclusion that something was majorly wrong here.

    Does the fact that the dog appeared to know Janelle substantiate as fact that the girls’ friendship was more than casual? I think so.
    “Finding the occasional straw of truth awash in a great ocean of confusion and bamboozle requires intelligence, vigilance, dedication and courage. But if we don’t practice these tough habits of thought, we cannot hope to solve the truly serious problems that face us – and we risk becoming a nation of suckers, up for grabs by the next charlatan who comes along.” – Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane View Post
    I would agree that most dog owners would take their dog along if going out for a walk. But it is also well documented that Sherrill had a doggie door installed in the kitchen which was still there recently. So I doubt that the dog had any “accidents” during the time it was left alone in the house to possibly be a sign as to something being wrong. And Janelle was curious as to why the dog was acting so nervous, jumping into her lap and wanting to be held. But that wouldn’t make most people at that point jump to the conclusion that something was majorly wrong here.

    Does the fact that the dog appeared to know Janelle substantiate as fact that the girls’ friendship was more than casual? I think so.
    How would the dog have known Janelle since didn't she say that was the first time she had gone to the home on Delmar? I'm inclined to think the dog was acting out separation anxiety. She was glad to see any human.

    I can remember the first time we went to the animal shelter to get our first Corgi mix. She jumped right up into my lap and she never had seen me before. Then her tail started wagging and she knew she had found the "sucker" to rescue her and take her home. Dogs have personalities like people and I'm convinced they understand language as well. If only they could talk to us. I believe I have read that they have an IQ of a five year old child. I could believe that. Even when we spell out words they understand and if we talk about them their ears perk up.
    "Never answer an anonymous letter"

    "I didn't really say everything I said"

    Yogi Berra



  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missouri Mule View Post
    How would the dog have known Janelle since didn't she say that was the first time she had gone to the home on Delmar?
    I'm inclined to think the dog was acting out separation anxiety. She was glad to see any human.

    I can remember the first time we went to the animal shelter to get our first Corgi mix. She jumped right up into my lap and she never had seen me before. Then her tail started wagging and she knew she had found the "sucker" to rescue her and take her home. Dogs have personalities like people and I'm convinced they understand language as well. If only they could talk to us. I believe I have read that they have an IQ of a five year old child. I could believe that. Even when we spell out words they understand and if we talk about them their ears perk up.
    They didn't just get the dog in April when they moved in. They had the dog since they lived in Battlefield.
    “Finding the occasional straw of truth awash in a great ocean of confusion and bamboozle requires intelligence, vigilance, dedication and courage. But if we don’t practice these tough habits of thought, we cannot hope to solve the truly serious problems that face us – and we risk becoming a nation of suckers, up for grabs by the next charlatan who comes along.” – Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane View Post
    They didn't just get the dog in April when they moved in. They had the dog since they lived in Battlefield.
    Yes, but had Janelle actually visited in the Levitt home? From what I gather, the relationship between Jannelle and Suzie was little to non-existent. Who else refers to her "next best friend" as "the other girl?" Not exactly a ringing endorsement for friendship is it?

    But this is really a sideshow to the bigger questions. The statements being made on that day, later and even today should all coincide. We don't even know who erased the messages now, do we?
    Last edited by Missouri Mule; 04-26-2011 at 07:07 PM.
    "Never answer an anonymous letter"

    "I didn't really say everything I said"

    Yogi Berra



  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missouri Mule View Post
    Yes, but had Janelle actually visited in the Levitt home?
    From what I gather, the relationship between Jannelle and Suzie was little to non-existent. Who else refers to her "next best friend" as "the other girl?" Not exactly a ringing endorsement for friendship is it?

    But this is really a sideshow to the bigger questions. The statements being made on that day, later and even today should all coincide. We don't even know who erased the messages now, do we?

    I have to be blunt. This was one of the most sloppy investigations I have ever heard of. And from what I gather most of the seasoned detectives were fully capable of proper interrogation but sent off chasing "tips" such as men in wing tipped shoes and no less than 11 psychics and following the flight patterns of buzzards in the skies. Seems to me it would have been better spent to have gotten all of the 18 or so people in separate interview rooms and ironed out any discrepancies for there appear to be numerous and conflicting stories that are unreconciable.
    You were the one who said that Janelle had never been to 1717 before that morning. I said there was ample time and reason why the dog would know Janelle because Suzie had the dog going back to when they lived in Battlefield. I think the dog’s actions with Janelle that Sunday morning demonstrates a familiarity with her. The dog didn’t cower in the corner as it might if afraid of strange humans after what it had witnessed that morning.

    You said yesterday that their friendship needed to be investigated. Why not give the Pope back his chair and investigate it then? I would recommend starting with their friends and classmates who knew them best; some of whom you denigrate openly here all the time. The friends and classmates who have come here to help in the past have been turned off and driven away by all the boastful baloney and wrongful accusations that you put out.

    I would also suggest that you interview the boarder who lived in the same household with Suzie and Sherrill for 18 months. She would know who Suzie’s friends were; who was at the house regularly; and how the everyday lives of Suzie and Sherrill were. And ask her why she left there.

    That’s just for starters. The people who know first hand what the daily lives were like for these people. It might just change some of your opinions that you hold so high and mighty.
    “Finding the occasional straw of truth awash in a great ocean of confusion and bamboozle requires intelligence, vigilance, dedication and courage. But if we don’t practice these tough habits of thought, we cannot hope to solve the truly serious problems that face us – and we risk becoming a nation of suckers, up for grabs by the next charlatan who comes along.” – Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane View Post
    You were the one who said that Janelle had never been to 1717 before that morning. I said there was ample time and reason why the dog would know Janelle because Suzie had the dog going back to when they lived in Battlefield. I think the dog’s actions with Janelle that Sunday morning demonstrates a familiarity with her. The dog didn’t cower in the corner as it might if afraid of strange humans after what it had witnessed that morning.
    The "Disappeared" program: "I'd never been to the house before; they had just moved there recently." From the "horse's mouth." Not my words, Sir. We have no way to know if she had ever seen the dog prior to that time do we?
    "Never answer an anonymous letter"

    "I didn't really say everything I said"

    Yogi Berra



  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missouri Mule View Post
    The "Disappeared" program: "I'd never been to the house before; they had just moved there recently." From the "horse's mouth." Not my words, Sir. We have no way to know if she had ever seen the dog prior to that time do we?
    Richard, I got no problem with that statement. I never said she had been to 1717; I never said that she hadn't. You try so hard to jump on people that you don't even bother to read the post.

    Once again, you asked how the dog could know Janelle since she had said that she had not been to 1717. I said that Suzie had the dog before moving there. There is ample reason to believe that Janelle at been around the home in Battlefield, ample reason to believe she had been to the apartment that Suzie and Sherrill lived in for a year after Battlefield. That dog had plenty of previous opportunities to know Janelle. Friends and classmates, the boarder, will all verify that the dog knew Janelle.

    Ever wonder why people don't share information with you and you have to constantly fish?
    “Finding the occasional straw of truth awash in a great ocean of confusion and bamboozle requires intelligence, vigilance, dedication and courage. But if we don’t practice these tough habits of thought, we cannot hope to solve the truly serious problems that face us – and we risk becoming a nation of suckers, up for grabs by the next charlatan who comes along.” – Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection


  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaya View Post
    Hi all! I've been stalking these boards for a long time, but have never really wanted to get involved in writing until now.

    I'll just jump right in where the conversation currently is. I have a hard time buying that Janelle was unaware that she would be having family coming in from out of town for her graduation. Who says she did not know that she was gonna have people coming in from out of town. The only thing that was changing was they were not gonna be there that night because the plans was to go to Branson for the night.
    It's graduation, it's important, you remember if Uncle Bob who you haven't seen since Thanksgiving is coming and staying with you. Even if her mom had told her previously and she forgot until that morning, we know based on the Disappeared piece that all the girls went and had dinner with their respective families after the ceremony before getting back together for the parties. If nothing less, Janelle would have been reminded when being with visiting out-of-town guests for dinner that evening. Would she have really forgotten again between dinner and inviting Stacy to stay with her at some point later in the evening?

    The other suspicious thing about her story (well, there are many, but I'll just mention this one for now) is her assertion that when she got to the house and found the purses there and the front door unlocked and the light on, she thought that maybe they had just gone for a walk and so she sat and waited for them. Do any of you know a dog owner who goes for a walk around their neighborhood as a family on a nice summer morning and doesn't take their dog?
    Yes I know 3 or 4 dog owners that do not take there dogs when walking, the dog gets walked, when it is time. They walk for fitness on their own. What I find about this line of thinking is that people do not put themselves in the shoes of the people at the time. At what point does anyone start to believe something really bad has happened? I personally would not have thought that anything as bad as this could have happened. I would have been concerned and obviously when she was crying in mid afternoon she started to become concerned. Janice McCall did not think anything unexplainable had happened until late that night. This is the difference of looking at the event in hindsight, versus actions at the time.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane View Post
    Richard, I got no problem with that statement. I never said she had been to 1717; I never said that she hadn't. You try so hard to jump on people that you don't even bother to read the post.

    Once again, you asked how the dog could know Janelle since she had said that she had not been to 1717. I said that Suzie had the dog before moving there. There is ample reason to believe that Janelle at been around the home in Battlefield, ample reason to believe she had been to the apartment that Suzie and Sherrill lived in for a year after Battlefield. That dog had plenty of previous opportunities to know Janelle. Friends and classmates, the boarder, will all verify that the dog knew Janelle.
    Is that a fact? Or are you guessing?

    "Ample Reason" doesn't exactly meet the proof test does it?

    Have you interviewed these friends and classmates or are you relying on inside police reports?
    "Never answer an anonymous letter"

    "I didn't really say everything I said"

    Yogi Berra



  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Missouri Mule View Post
    Is that a fact? Or are you guessing?

    "Ample Reason" doesn't exactly meet the proof test does it?

    Have you interviewed these friends and classmates or are you relying on inside police reports?
    I have interviewed them and I am not the only one to do so. As I said you might have to give up some of your strongly held beliefs and convictions in this case.
    “Finding the occasional straw of truth awash in a great ocean of confusion and bamboozle requires intelligence, vigilance, dedication and courage. But if we don’t practice these tough habits of thought, we cannot hope to solve the truly serious problems that face us – and we risk becoming a nation of suckers, up for grabs by the next charlatan who comes along.” – Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection

  14. #74
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    [quote=Missouri Mule;6397260]Yes, but had Janelle actually visited in the Levitt home? Yes she did they knew each other from very early in gradeschool. From what I gather, the relationship between Jannelle and Suzie was little to non-existent. Who else refers to her "next best friend" as "the other girl?" Not exactly a ringing endorsement for friendship is it?

    You got nothing here, the friendship was solid, but not as good as with Stacy, they had a different sets of friends, but to even imply that she had issues with Suzie would be an error.

    But this is really a sideshow to the bigger questions. The statements being made on that day, later and even today should all coincide. We don't even know who erased the messages now, do we?
    Janice McCall erased one message and it was not obscene according to the disappeared video, this was easy to do by accident, on the old style answering machines.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane View Post
    I have interviewed them and I am not the only one to do so. As I said you might have to give up some of your strongly held beliefs and convictions in this case.
    Well, what have we established here? I'm not the only one who finds some of the behavior troubling that day.

    Do you disagree that facts that don't coincide with other facts need to be further examined?

    I can give you an example. Janis McCall stated that her daughter was to spend the night at this location with her girlfriend Suzanne Streeter. Yet Stu McCall stated that she had permission to spend the night at Janelle's but not at Suzanne's.

    How do you square those accounts?

    I'm not sure what you mean by my "strongly held beliefs and convictions in this case." If applying common sense and looking to the facts violates some unwritten rule for police conduct in Springfield I was unaware of that.
    "Never answer an anonymous letter"

    "I didn't really say everything I said"

    Yogi Berra



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