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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seaslug44 View Post
    Since I seemed to have woke up this morning dialed-in with an accurate hunch that the Manorville cases are linked to the ones in Gilgo (if you noticed, I actually posted this hunch and started this thread hours before the news broke), I'm hoping to take advantage of this mysterious state of awareness and post my next gut-feeling;

    I strongly feel like these murders are not the work of a serial killer but the work of an organized crime organization.

    Not the Mafia... Nope, don't feel it. But yes, an organized crime organization like a gang, a sex-slave ring, a wanna-be crime family, etc... There seems to be a very large presence of Asian, Hispanic as well as Russian sex-trade rings in the NYC, Queens, Brooklyn & Long Island area. Some specialize in prostitution, some in exotic dancers, and some in hostels disguised as massage pallors or run inside night clubs. Then of course, there are many girls who declare themselves. "independents".

    With the tough economy, competition surely is intense in all industries (legal or illegal). Turf wars surely must exist. So does disloyalty, stealing, cheating, scamming, etc... IMO, these murders are the result of an organized crime group taking lives as a method of enforcing their rules, punishing those who break them, and possibly eliminating the competition. I now understand "the loop" that we charted and discussed in another thread. It is clear to me that the ****s responsible for the murders of the girls dumped in Manorville came from the West (most likey Brooklyn, Queens or maybe Nassau). On route back home they crossed over to Ocean Parkway and literally threw the heads, hands and feet out the window near Gilgo. This pattern was repeated at least twice.

    The presence of the two male bodies that were dumped in that same stretch as well as the discovery of a head in a pond nearby also suggests an organized crime ring dumping ground.

    The taunting phone calls to one of the victim's sisters suggest to me that one of the criminals responsible for the murders is a sick puppy who gets his kicks from that kind of sadistic behavior.
    BBM

    I figured you'd get it eventually.

    As for the rest of your post, I posted nearly the same exact thoughts on another thread. Makes complete sense to me, especially since we also have reports of dead pitbulls and headless chickens also dumped in Manorville. Manorville, imo, is a dumping ground for business liabilities.
    People seldom do what they believe in. They do what is convenient, then repent. ~ Bob Dylan

  2. #32
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    Could it be that the SK who killed the GB4 had inside knowledge of the Manorville murders and knew that those cases were not very seriously investigated. Could he have decided GB would therefore be a good place to carry out his fantasies?

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain_Kat View Post
    BBM

    I figured you'd get it eventually.

    As for the rest of your post, I posted nearly the same exact thoughts on another thread. Makes complete sense to me, especially since we also have reports of dead pitbulls and headless chickens also dumped in Manorville. Manorville, imo, is a dumping ground for business liabilities.
    Found this--- http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/loc...Long-Island-NY

  4. #34
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    Sep 2010
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    Remy's Angels

    Thought I would bring this post over here as well...
    Quote Originally Posted by goathairjones View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bodhi93 View Post
    I just did a search for Remy's Angels and found this site (link). Seems to have a few pitbulls around... and check out the logo...
    bodhi93,

    Great Link! Wow! More "coincidences" in this case. It's enough to drive you crazy!!!

    OK, so Remy's Angel could be linked to a Pit Bull Breeder and JT had that tattoo on her body. Also, there was a guy from West Islip that recently went missing along with his Pit Bull on July 18, 2010.

    Pit Bulls are notoriously popular with drug dealers and I think we have some drug angles in this case. I wonder if we could connect the dots and come up with a suspect.

    Good find, bodhi!

  5. #35
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    nugzter thank you for the article link you posted.
    a lot of various criminals have pitbulls as pets and also have them for fighting and the birds are a cockfighting thing that people bet on.
    poor pitbulls get a bad rep since they are raised wrong by bad people who treat them badly so that they can fight. it seems to be a trend brought about by dogfighters and drug dealers to own pitbulls. it's been reinforced in rap videos. so a lot of gangbangers own them, yet not all make them fight, some might have them for protection. if my wife and i are driving through any hood around here it's not uncommon to see peeps walking pitbulls down the street.

    being that the manorville victims were dismembered and torsos were put in manorville or elsewhere in suitcases etc. the remainder of the body parts in jt's case were found near the other clusters of victims.

    it's possible that there are 2 different killers. one dismembers his victims and goes to extremes postmortem to try to prevent identification.

    the other killer buries them without any personal effects in burlap.

    the males and the toddler could or could not be related to one of the killers, they could be from completely different killers altogether.


    anything is possible i guess, yet a sk who actually cuts up and dismembers his victims is very different than one who disposes of them buck naked in burlap. the one who dismembers has time and a place to do this as it's not so easy to dismember someone. it's also very messy so this person has to be very comfortable with doing that task.

    the gilgo girls were buried in burlap stripped of all personal effects, which is quicker than dismembering. it's possible that killer doesn't have the time to dismember them, or the location, or maybe even it's possible the thought of it disturbs him. (granted he is already seriously disturbed) yet every sk is different.

    the dumping of the victims is also part of the ritual to the sk. serial killers are very ritualistic and like to stick to a routine for whatever reason. this may not always be the case, yet it tends to be in a lot of cases.

  6. #36
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    i would love to know who the victim from 2000 is. the odd thing is that half of each of taylor and the doe have been found in manorville, the other parts near gilgo.

    what i said above aside, i tend to sit on the fence undecided on certain things.

    would a sk change his mo? would he experiment with different methods of disposal? or are there 2 different sks?
    things can cause an sk to change his mo, such as aging or physical health problems, loss of access to physical abilities or areas he's used in the past. even getting married.

    given the highly concentrated population of the tri state area, nyc and surrounding it's very likely that there are 2 different killers. yet parts of taylor and the doe being found near the other victims is a little too uncanny.

    when dealing with sk's they tend to kill and dump where they are comfortable. if the sk lived in a city he would kill his victims and leave them there.

    we know that whether or not there is one or two serial killers, both are mobile in that they own vehicles and can access disposal spots for their victims. they dispose of them in areas that they are comfortable with. imho, i think the sk(s) are from long island, have lived or live in long island and are very comfy with where they put their victims.

    to dump at least 8 victims lined up practicly on a stretch of highway and then to keep going back after even the first one to dump more takes a lot of confindence in that area that the sk will not be caught while dumping the victim.

    areas tend to change over time, so the sk is likely a local to those areas or has lived there yet returns frequently enough to notice any changes in the areas.

    as for manorville, imo i don't think a sk lives there. i think he has been familiar with manorville for whatever reason and only used it to dump.

  7. #37
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    I think the Manorville ladies were killed in or near Manorville. There he disposed the torsos first to get rid of them ASAP after trying to make them difficult to identify. He would have felt more comfortable driving further with the hands and head. I think that after years passed with noone finding the whole remains on OP, he felt it was safe to leave others there. First only one, again years passed, then more. MOO

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by chemcopout View Post
    would a sk change his mo?

    http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/c...k_myths/9.html

    Method of operation (modus operandi/MO) has been another rather distressing concept in the investigation of serial killers. Perhaps when criminals commit other crimes they stay fairly consistent. For crimes you commit on a regular basis, say a couple times a week or maybe daily, it would be rather silly to reinvent your method of committing the crime each time you set out to do it again. If you found a good way to burgle a house, it makes sense to bring the same tools and repeat the previous steps.
    Serial killers, however, dont kill very often. Really, they dont. Some wait years in between crimes and so when they do cross that line again they may fix something that didnt work last time or didnt feel right last time or didnt give enough of a thrill last time. A serial killer may decide to change from stabbing to strangling because last time he cut himself and he got too much blood in the car. He may decide he wants more time with the victim so he moves from an outside location to an inside location. He may decide to tie up the victim this time because the last one was hard to handle and it really ticked him off.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by stillwatersc View Post
    http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/c...k_myths/9.html

    Method of operation (modus operandi/MO) has been another rather distressing concept in the investigation of serial killers. Perhaps when criminals commit other crimes they stay fairly consistent. For crimes you commit on a regular basis, say a couple times a week or maybe daily, it would be rather silly to reinvent your method of committing the crime each time you set out to do it again. If you found a good way to burgle a house, it makes sense to bring the same tools and repeat the previous steps.
    Serial killers, however, dont kill very often. Really, they dont. Some wait years in between crimes and so when they do cross that line again they may fix something that didnt work last time or didnt feel right last time or didnt give enough of a thrill last time. A serial killer may decide to change from stabbing to strangling because last time he cut himself and he got too much blood in the car. He may decide he wants more time with the victim so he moves from an outside location to an inside location. He may decide to tie up the victim this time because the last one was hard to handle and it really ticked him off.
    Very true. But if you look at the ritualistic aspect of the GB4, he sticks to his MO to a tee. (At least based on the info LE have released)

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by stillwatersc View Post
    http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/c...k_myths/9.html

    Method of operation (modus operandi/MO) has been another rather distressing concept in the investigation of serial killers. Perhaps when criminals commit other crimes they stay fairly consistent. For crimes you commit on a regular basis, say a couple times a week or maybe daily, it would be rather silly to reinvent your method of committing the crime each time you set out to do it again. If you found a good way to burgle a house, it makes sense to bring the same tools and repeat the previous steps.
    Serial killers, however, dont kill very often. Really, they dont. Some wait years in between crimes and so when they do cross that line again they may fix something that didnt work last time or didnt feel right last time or didnt give enough of a thrill last time. A serial killer may decide to change from stabbing to strangling because last time he cut himself and he got too much blood in the car. He may decide he wants more time with the victim so he moves from an outside location to an inside location. He may decide to tie up the victim this time because the last one was hard to handle and it really ticked him off.
    Thank you stillwatersc! I think that if one finds extremely similar mo's it is more likely that that one sk is involved. But, on the other hand sk's can and do change their mo's from all that I've read, and it is for a varitey of reasons...some of which pasted above.


  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by nugzter View Post
    Very true. But if you look at the ritualistic aspect of the GB4, he sticks to his MO to a tee. (At least based on the info LE have released)
    I totally agree that the gb4 screams of one sk and that the others may have similarities but clearly have differences. That may be one reason why le is not so quick to state that they think one sk is good for all of the crimes. But, what we don't know is that he may have changed his mo concerning the earlier group of victims. I do think there are enough differences that indicate that there is more than one killer, but I wouldn't rule it out yet that only one sk is responsible.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by relay View Post
    I totally agree that the gb4 screams of one sk and that the others may have similarities but clearly have differences. That may be one reason why le is not so quick to state that they think one sk is good for all of the crimes. But, what we don't know is that he may have changed his mo concerning the earlier group of victims. I do think there are enough differences that indicate that there is more than one killer, but I wouldn't rule it out yet that only one sk is responsible.
    Absolutely! But there has to but some reasoning from going from dismembering bodies to "preserving" them almost trophy like. He has had to "wash" them of any trace DNA evidence. And there is a ritualistic process involved in this so he doesn't miss anything. I personally believe this is part of his "thing". He is taunting LE in this way. Saying "look, I'm good and you ain't gonna find anything". He can make the calls to the family. Sure the murders are sexually motivated. But the way he plans them, carries them out, and prepares to discard them is also a large factor of his taunting LE. Sex, and death alone are not his only motivations. IMO

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seaslug44 View Post
    Since I seemed to have woke up this morning dialed-in with an accurate hunch that the Manorville cases are linked to the ones in Gilgo (if you noticed, I actually posted this hunch and started this thread hours before the news broke), I'm hoping to take advantage of this mysterious state of awareness and post my next gut-feeling;

    I strongly feel like these murders are not the work of a serial killer but the work of an organized crime organization.

    Not the Mafia... Nope, don't feel it. But yes, an organized crime organization like a gang, a sex-slave ring, a wanna-be crime family, etc... There seems to be a very large presence of Asian, Hispanic as well as Russian sex-trade rings in the NYC, Queens, Brooklyn & Long Island area. Some specialize in prostitution, some in exotic dancers, and some in hostels disguised as massage pallors or run inside night clubs. Then of course, there are many girls who declare themselves. "independents".

    With the tough economy, competition surely is intense in all industries (legal or illegal). Turf wars surely must exist. So does disloyalty, stealing, cheating, scamming, etc... IMO, these murders are the result of an organized crime group taking lives as a method of enforcing their rules, punishing those who break them, and possibly eliminating the competition. I now understand "the loop" that we charted and discussed in another thread. It is clear to me that the ****s responsible for the murders of the girls dumped in Manorville came from the West (most likey Brooklyn, Queens or maybe Nassau). On route back home they crossed over to Ocean Parkway and literally threw the heads, hands and feet out the window near Gilgo. This pattern was repeated at least twice.

    The presence of the two male bodies that were dumped in that same stretch as well as the discovery of a head in a pond nearby also suggests an organized crime ring dumping ground.

    The taunting phone calls to one of the victim's sisters suggest to me that one of the criminals responsible for the murders is a sick puppy who gets his kicks from that kind of sadistic behavior.
    I enjoyed your post and theory, but who is to say that it is not a person with some experience in LE framing it to look like just an organized crime dump scene? There are some very smart sick and sadisctic people out there. I would not put it past someone to do this. If that person knew where those places were, why not just dump victims there so LE would be thrown off the trail?

  14. #44
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    it looks like an organised dump scene because our killer is organized...very methodical...have they even found a hair?

  15. #45
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    Two different perpetrators, with a chance, that Manorville has a team or pack. At least, that's my bet, based on different victimology and MO.
    Sometimes, being a squirrel can be a real nutjob!

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