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Thread: NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - #21

  1. #1
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    NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - #21

    Please continue here.


    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7...ing-Utahn.html


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    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93679"]Thread #1[/ame] [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4682718"]Thread #2[/ame]

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    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96496"]Thread #7[/ame] [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4932786"]Thread #8[/ame]

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    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5075705"]Thread #11[/ame] [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5140467#post5140467"]Thread #12[/ame]

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    Last edited by SheWhoMustNotBeNamed; 05-12-2011 at 08:05 PM.
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  3. #2
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    What happened to the link in the Laytonian's signature line and all the info?
    Speaking of mysteries - billions of people past/present, how on earth did I get be on earth and self-aware?

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  5. #3
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    Bringing this post over from SouthWestHiker:

    A few points on my mind:

    The Sacramento thing has been glossed over IMO. Why did he say he was going to Sacramento when visiting Ruby Valley? Because its a city in that direction to explain his visit? Why didn't he say Reno or San Jose or San Francisco? It seems he had no ties at all to Sacramento so why that one? Just random or a slip of his mind on a crazy random trip when it seems he was trying to grab unto something from his old life?

    I dont know why there is such strong pushback to any discussion of an off the grid escape... Look at what we know of his emails and how he conducted his job search. Completely old style, using the internet in the way I would think someone in their 50s or 60s would use it. Obviously, there wouldnt be any trace of any interactions online about that.

    I have no ties or friends among the LDS community but some people here do... how would you connect to some of the more remote, "conservative" elements? Would those people show up once or twice a year at "regular" LDS events or meetings trying to see if they can find people to join their communities? Do they go door to door? There has to be some networking or meetings.


    That passport found in a box month later... Was it neatly stacked away? Could Steven also have considered it missing and obtained a new one?


    Steven would have been late if he was in SCA for a meeting at noon... but it could well have been a casual type of meeting like "come by anytime between 12 and 1pm"... If I was desperate for a job like he was, I would be there at 12:02 then, but certainly not before 12 to avoid looking desperate. House cleaning job? moving job? pills and supplements needing to be counted and separated before hitting the road later in the afternoon?


    Steven seems so restless in that last month with those trips all over the place, meetings, gifts left in the car. It looks like someone unable to keep steady waiting for something to happen.


    Someone Steven talked to in the last few days before his disappearance has the clue.
    ~~~Cynical Optimist~~~

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  7. #4
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    [quote=Fairy1;6475152]Bringing this post over from SouthWestHiker:

    A few points on my mind:

    The Sacramento thing has been glossed over IMO. Why did he say he was going to Sacramento when visiting Ruby Valley? Because its a city in that direction to explain his visit? Why didn't he say Reno or San Jose or San Francisco? It seems he had no ties at all to Sacramento so why that one? Just random or a slip of his mind on a crazy random trip when it seems he was trying to grab unto something from his old life?

    I don't believe it's been "glossed over." I have always understood Steven's telling AN's parents he was going to Sacramento as either, "I'm on my way to Sacramento now," or as a way to explain why he was there. We KNOW he didn't go to Sacramento that day because we KNOW he went back to St. George. Sacramento is far north of Henderson - farther north than it is from St. George. Why would he drive two hours south and then head to Sacramento? And without a vehicle?

    I dont know why there is such strong pushback to any discussion of an off the grid escape... Look at what we know of his emails and how he conducted his job search. Completely old style, using the internet in the way I would think someone in their 50s or 60s would use it. Obviously, there wouldnt be any trace of any interactions online about that.

    I don't think there's strong push-back to this theory. I have been a proponent of it, which is why I continue to look for Steven wherever I go. For those who may not be aware, we have a large network of underground tunnels in Las Vegas which are inhabited by a good number of homeless folks. The author who wrote about those tunnels, Matthew O'Brien, continues working with those folks, trying to help them get the services they need. Laytonian contacted him last year and asked if he had seen Steven, which he hadn't. But he said he would keep an eye out. I don't think it's impossible to live off the grid for a good amount of time. It's been a long while since Steven's missing posters were distributed among the places the homeless would turn up. It's possible his posters are no longer where they were placed or that his appearance has changed enough that he would not be recognized.

    I have no ties or friends among the LDS community but some people here do... how would you connect to some of the more remote, "conservative" elements? Would those people show up once or twice a year at "regular" LDS events or meetings trying to see if they can find people to join their communities? Do they go door to door? There has to be some networking or meetings.

    If you're referring to the FLDS folks, read up on the Lost Boys. Those factions are banishing their young men so the old men can have the girls. They are not looking for 30-year-old men to "join up." This was one of my theories early on, but it doesn't really make sense.

    That passport found in a box month later... Was it neatly stacked away? Could Steven also have considered it missing and obtained a new one?
    I don't believe it was in a box but one of Steven's drawers. And IIRC, it had been renewed fairly recently.

    Steven would have been late if he was in SCA for a meeting at noon... but it could well have been a casual type of meeting like "come by anytime between 12 and 1pm"... If I was desperate for a job like he was, I would be there at 12:02 then, but certainly not before 12 to avoid looking desperate. House cleaning job? moving job? pills and supplements needing to be counted and separated before hitting the road later in the afternoon?

    Okay. But THEN what happened?

    Steven seems so restless in that last month with those trips all over the place, meetings, gifts left in the car. It looks like someone unable to keep steady waiting for something to happen.

    Restless, maybe. But he was obviously short on funds, so was he just passing the time or was there a purpose to those trips? I wish I knew the answer to that question!

    Someone Steven talked to in the last few days before his disappearance has the clue.

    I agree. And if I had the power to question some of those folks, it would have been done long ago. All we can hope is that someone who does have the power is connecting the dots.
    Last edited by Fairy1; 05-12-2011 at 11:16 PM.
    ~~~Cynical Optimist~~~

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  9. #5
    Laytonian mentioned something in one of her posts. I am paraphrasing, but she said something to the extent that his computer was examined and his phone records were examined and there was nothing shown on his computer or phone tying him to that neighborhood.

    One thing that does occur during a recession is that some employers advertise for jobs by saying, "apply in person, no phone calls please." If Steven Koecher was in that area and happened to pick up a local newspaper to scan the classified, he very well could have run across an ad that advertised a job that stated something similar. The ad could very well have stated the address and the time to apply and to apply in person. Then there would be no record of a phone call.

    In the past when I was looking for employment, I did use the computer to search for work but I would also pick up a paper and scan it. What might be useful is to find out if there is a newpaper or some other type of magazine in that area that advertises jobs and find out if there was an ad placed in the paper the week that Steven Koecher disappeared and see if it is in that neighborhood.

    Also just because there is no phone number tied to that neighborhood doesn't mean that he didn't call someone. Frequently people keep cell phones with phone numbers that are not connected to the area that they live in. My girlfriend is from New York and kept her cell phone number for about two years with a 212 area code and we live in Southern California.

    I have always gone on the premise that he went to that neighborhood to go on some kind of interview for a job. I believe that what he is carrying in his arm is a resume or application for a job.

    I don't believe that he was mentally ill or that he was delivering drugs or walked away on his own or suffered from disassociative fugue. I don't think there is any weird explanation or anything I think that Steven Koecher was a guy looking for a job, probably didn't access his mother's money to pay for the rent because he either didn't like where he lived and was planning on moving out and using the money for another place to live or just had other stuff on his mind. Was he stressed out? Probably so, to an extent.

    When people are stressed about a job and bills they don't always make the best decsions, like driving around to take their minds off of their troubles. Heaven knows I have done very similar things in my younger days.

    I don't believe John Riggs at all. I don't believe that he and his wife and friend saw STeven Koecher at all. At best he saw someone who looked like Steven Koecher and came up with this bogus story. If I am wrong then I will be the first to apologize, but I doubt it.

    If and when the facts come out and anyone finds out what happened to Steven Koecher I believe that he met with foul play and that he just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    For three years there was tons of speculation into the disapearance of Denise Huber who disappeared on the 73 freeway in Orange County California. Her car was parked on the side of the road, there was no evidence of a struggle. She was coming home from a concert and got a flat tire. She pulled over between 2:00 A.M. and 2:30 A.M. and the 73 freeway is always fairly well traved into Newport Beach at that time on a Saturday morning. However, nobody reported seing a thing, accept for one lady who saw the car on the side of the freeway at that time.

    When she disappeared, speculation came out that she ran off, had amnesia, needed time away, was involved with drugs. There were conspiracy theories galore. Pscyhics called and bothered the family with the most idiotic ideas and predictions. There were multiple sitings of Denise Huber by people who swore up and down that they saw her. They all turned out to be bogus.

    Three years later by pure accident a couple called in to the police in Arizona to complain that a man had a Ryder truck in front of his house and the couple thought that the truck was being used as a meth lab.

    When the police checked out the truck they found a freezer in it and in the freezer was the body of Denise Huber.

    Sometime after she pulled over with a flat tire John Famalero pulled up in a big white van, knocked her out and kidnapped her. She had walked out of her car to used a call box to call the police and she was told that there was a service station two blocks away. That was at about 2:00 a.m. The woman who drove by and saw Denise Huber's car said that she saw the car at about 2:30. So this happened very quick and again nobody reported seeing the van pull over.

    John Falamaro who had no police record, and as far as they have ever been able to determine never committed this type of crime in the past. He has never talked about it and nobody knows why he did it. A very good friend of mine who worked for the Costa Mesa police department at the time worked this case and spoke with me about it.

    Denise Huber's case was a crime of opportunity and I believe this is what may have happened to Steven Koecher. It's rare but it happens.

    If someone lives in that area and can find out if there is a local newspaper or some kind or magazine that advertises local jobs then maybe a copy of that week can be obtained to see if a job was advertised in that neighborhood that week.

    Kelly

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  11. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelly_Robinson View Post
    Laytonian mentioned something in one of her posts. I am paraphrasing, but she said something to the extent that his computer was examined and his phone records were examined and there was nothing shown on his computer or phone tying him to that neighborhood.

    One thing that does occur during a recession is that some employers advertise for jobs by saying, "apply in person, no phone calls please." If Steven Koecher was in that area and happened to pick up a local newspaper to scan the classified, he very well could have run across an ad that advertised a job that stated something similar. The ad could very well have stated the address and the time to apply and to apply in person. Then there would be no record of a phone call.

    In the past when I was looking for employment, I did use the computer to search for work but I would also pick up a paper and scan it. What might be useful is to find out if there is a newpaper or some other type of magazine in that area that advertises jobs and find out if there was an ad placed in the paper the week that Steven Koecher disappeared and see if it is in that neighborhood.

    Also just because there is no phone number tied to that neighborhood doesn't mean that he didn't call someone. Frequently people keep cell phones with phone numbers that are not connected to the area that they live in. My girlfriend is from New York and kept her cell phone number for about two years with a 212 area code and we live in Southern California.

    I have always gone on the premise that he went to that neighborhood to go on some kind of interview for a job. I believe that what he is carrying in his arm is a resume or application for a job.

    I don't believe that he was mentally ill or that he was delivering drugs or walked away on his own or suffered from disassociative fugue. I don't think there is any weird explanation or anything I think that Steven Koecher was a guy looking for a job, probably didn't access his mother's money to pay for the rent because he either didn't like where he lived and was planning on moving out and using the money for another place to live or just had other stuff on his mind. Was he stressed out? Probably so, to an extent.

    When people are stressed about a job and bills they don't always make the best decsions, like driving around to take their minds off of their troubles. Heaven knows I have done very similar things in my younger days.

    I don't believe John Riggs at all. I don't believe that he and his wife and friend saw STeven Koecher at all. At best he saw someone who looked like Steven Koecher and came up with this bogus story. If I am wrong then I will be the first to apologize, but I doubt it.

    If and when the facts come out and anyone finds out what happened to Steven Koecher I believe that he met with foul play and that he just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

    For three years there was tons of speculation into the disapearance of Denise Huber who disappeared on the 73 freeway in Orange County California. Her car was parked on the side of the road, there was no evidence of a struggle. She was coming home from a concert and got a flat tire. She pulled over between 2:00 A.M. and 2:30 A.M. and the 73 freeway is always fairly well traved into Newport Beach at that time on a Saturday morning. However, nobody reported seing a thing, accept for one lady who saw the car on the side of the freeway at that time.

    When she disappeared, speculation came out that she ran off, had amnesia, needed time away, was involved with drugs. There were conspiracy theories galore. Pscyhics called and bothered the family with the most idiotic ideas and predictions. There were multiple sitings of Denise Huber by people who swore up and down that they saw her. They all turned out to be bogus.

    Three years later by pure accident a couple called in to the police in Arizona to complain that a man had a Ryder truck in front of his house and the couple thought that the truck was being used as a meth lab.

    When the police checked out the truck they found a freezer in it and in the freezer was the body of Denise Huber.

    Sometime after she pulled over with a flat tire John Famalero pulled up in a big white van, knocked her out and kidnapped her. She had walked out of her car to used a call box to call the police and she was told that there was a service station two blocks away. That was at about 2:00 a.m. The woman who drove by and saw Denise Huber's car said that she saw the car at about 2:30. So this happened very quick and again nobody reported seeing the van pull over.

    John Falamaro who had no police record, and as far as they have ever been able to determine never committed this type of crime in the past. He has never talked about it and nobody knows why he did it. A very good friend of mine who worked for the Costa Mesa police department at the time worked this case and spoke with me about it.

    Denise Huber's case was a crime of opportunity and I believe this is what may have happened to Steven Koecher. It's rare but it happens.

    If someone lives in that area and can find out if there is a local newspaper or some kind or magazine that advertises local jobs then maybe a copy of that week can be obtained to see if a job was advertised in that neighborhood that week.

    Kelly

    The reason I don't think it was a "don't call" type of ad is only bc these are people's homes. people generally don't want random strangers showing up at their house. even those who ran a business out of their home, it is not like a place with set hours that would really welcome strangers just coming in I don't think without knowing who they are and what time they are coming. HOWEVER I do think STILL that the job theory is a strong possibility. The mom said she was able to easily identify all the calls except for one, which was just the parent of some girls who Steven found locked out of their house. But she wouldn't know it was a suspicious phone call if someone he knew, led him there. He also could have met someone face to face or responded to a craigslist ad with a different email account at the library.

    He could have met this person a LONG time ago and had a reason for just dropping by that we don't know about, kind of like he just "dropped by" AN's parent's ranch.

    As far the Sacramento theory, I admit I think it's a long shot as well but who knows? His last cell phone pings indicated his phone was north of Henderson (someone could have abandoned it on the way to somewhere else?) However, if Steven planned his disappearance to Sacramento, it would make no sense, to tell people he was going there and disappear. If you want to disappear you don't tell people where you are going. Unless he planned on going and something bad happened to him. To me, I think he was just trying to explain a reason why he was near Ruby Valley but who knows??

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  13. #7
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    Laytonian: We miss your timeline!! (or at least some of us do -can't see it anymore.)

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  15. #8
    Staying off the grid? Extremely easy! Undocumented/illegal immigrants are able to do it for their entire lives successfully. Do work under the table, get paid in cash or if you're paid with checks sign it over to someone legit who can then cash it for you, and then live with other people who have houses or apartments in their name. Don't forward your mail from your last address. Get a pre-paid cell phone and you also have your technology/communication needs met. All completely off the grid, no work history, no bank accounts, no rent/lease/mortgage records, and no utilities in your name; plus you are still living a lifestyle with some degree of comfort and only mild inconveniences.

    This is also how people avoid bill collectors and avoid being apprehended on warrants.

    Or, there's always the more extreme degree of living off the grid of being homeless.

    How far would you have to go to be able to be unrecognized if you were a "missing person." Not far. Hiding in plain sight can sometimes be the best place to hide. SK could be living in SLC, Provo, Springfield, Nephi, Vernal, etc. Anywhere that the search efforts are not concentrated or focused upon is a viable place to hide. And, as the news coverage dwindles and the missing posters fade, it's much easier to hide in plain sight without detection. An extreme example, but demonstrates the simplicity of this phenomenon, is the Elizabeth Smart case.

    Getting a new identity? Rather difficult and you generally need to know people who have done it successfully and/or have connections. This is again a more frequent occurrance with undocumented immigrants, a bit uncommon for an adult caucasian male.

    There is an informal, but well established, secretive underground railroad for women and children escaping violent relationships, that gets these victims to the opposite of the country with new identities, but I am unaware of one for men.

    How easy would it be to live somewhere and not hear about your own father's death? Easy. Death notices/announcements are published for only a few days at best and only with in the relevant city/cities that the person was a resident of. Miss that particular news day or that issue of the newspaper that had the obituary, and you'd never know that you had missed something that you weren't even looking for. Death notices are usually spread through the family and friends by word of mouth, not reliant upon the actual obituary.

    Why would SK even be looking for his father's death notice? It was an unexpected death and who would be able to alert SK so that he would be aware of it? His cell phone was long gone by the time that his father passed and the news coverage outside of Utah regarding his father's death would have been little to none.
    Last edited by Lady LEO; 05-13-2011 at 01:57 PM.

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  17. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady LEO View Post
    Staying off the grid? Extremely easy! Undocumented/illegal immigrants are able to do it for their entire lives successfully. Do work under the table, get paid in cash or if you're paid with checks sign it over to someone legit who can then cash it for you, and then live with other people who have houses or apartments in their name. Don't forward your mail from your last address. Get a pre-paid cell phone and you also have your technology/communication needs met. All completely off the grid, no work history, no bank accounts, no rent/lease/mortgage records, and no utilities in your name; plus you are still living a lifestyle with some degree of comfort and only mild inconveniences.

    This is also how people avoid bill collectors and avoid being apprehended on warrants.

    Or, there's always the more extreme degree of living off the grid of being homeless.

    How far would you have to go to be able to be unrecognized if you were a "missing person." Not far. Hiding in plain sight can sometimes be the best place to hide. SK could be living in SLC, Provo, Springfield, Nephi, Vernal, etc. Anywhere that the search efforts are concentrated on is a viable place to hide. And, as the news coverage dwindles and the missing posters fade, it's much easier to hide in plain sight without detection. An extreme example, but demonstrates the simplicity of this phenomenon, is the Elizabeth Smart case.

    Getting a new identity? Rather difficult and you generally need to know people who have done it successfully and/or have connections. This is again a more frequent occurrance with undocumented immigrants, a bit uncommon for an adult caucasian male.

    There is an informal, but well established, secretive underground railroad for women and children escaping violent relationships, that gets these victims to the opposite of the country with new identities, but I am unaware of one for men.

    How easy would it be to live somewhere and not hear about your own father's death? Easy. Death notices/announcements are published for only a few days at best and only with in the relevant city/cities that the person was a resident of. Miss that particular news day or that issue of the newspaper that had the obituary, and you'd never know that you had missed something that you weren't even looking for. Death notices are usually spread through the family and friends by word of mouth, not reliant upon the actual obituary.

    Why would SK even be looking for his father's death notice? It was an unexpected death and who would be able to alert SK so that he would be aware of it? His cell phone was long gone by the time that his father passed and the news coverage outside of Utah regarding his father's death would have been little to none.
    If Steven is alive and in his right mind- neither of which are known- I think he would know his family is looking for him. If I had disappeared on purpose I'm sure I wouldn't be able to resist googling my own name and seeing the articles, websites, etc. So if the first two conditions exist, I would think he knows his father has passed away. Computers are not hard to find even without a library card or your own computer, if you want to find one and use one all you need is a few bucks, or a friend.

  18. #10
    Disregard...incomplete post. See post 12
    Last edited by Lady LEO; 05-13-2011 at 03:02 PM.

  19. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady LEO View Post
    Has anyone here personally gone to a job interview on a Sunday afternoon at a private home or knows someone first hand who has?

    If so, what type of business was it?
    that's an extremely specific question. no but I've never had a job passing out fliers or driven a flexfuel car, so it doesn't mean people don't do it. there are lots of possibilities, like portuguese or guitar lessons, yardwork etc., that wouldn't be like a formal job.

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  21. #12
    Has anyone here personally gone to a job interview on a Sunday afternoon at a private home or knows someone first hand who has?

    If so, what type of business was it?

    What do most people do on Sundays?

    Why would someone be going to a private residence at a specific time?

    How do we know that the time was specific to an appointment? Could have been coincidence. He stopped in unannounced at a private residence in the middle of the day during the work week just days prior.

    The presumption that SK was going to a job interview doesn't ring true to me. The day of the week and the location just aren't right. Interviews on Saturdays are pretty rare, let alone Sunday afternoons.

    I have heard of weekend retreats/conferences/get-aways/seminars/events/or holiday festival/concerts that will be conducted on Saturday and Sundays. This was the second week of December when it would be reasonable that holiday events would be well into their schedule. Also, there are those 2 day "get rich quick" conferences that will occur on Saturdays and Sundays, frequently w/o a cost for admission. Knowing that SK was struggling for a job, this type of conference may have interested him and possible even gotten him excited about his future new business prospects, this could have been viewed as his big break. If he had been planning on attending an event of this nature, this may be why he sounded up-beat in the days prior, because he was excited about the opportunity to turn thing around.

    Not to mention that Vegas is a hot spot for conferences or large scale events.

    The Overton ping on Saturday could have been the outbound journey to Henderson, spent the day at the event, with the Mesquite ping representing the return trip.

    The start time for the Sunday sessions will sometimes be later in the morning or after the lunch hour and will be restricted to the afternoon hours before concluding. Cell phones off during the time spent in the event, cell phone back on after the retreat is over, thus the ping on Sunday evening.

    SK may have met people at the retreat/conference who offered to let him ride with them the next day. Because of gmith's input here on WS, we know that when possible, SK would prefer to have other people drive because he didn't want to spend money on gas, even if it was just short trips or just two friends hanging out.

    So, Saturday night, SK returns to St. George to his apartment, is seen for only 30 mins before he is observed by the neighbor leaving again, and he returns to Henderson, but sleeps in his car which is why the pillows and blanket and toiletry bag are in the back seat and more items aren't packed or missing from his home.

    Next morning, maybe he runs a few errands, pays cash for breakfast, and then joins up with the people in the SCA area who he may have visited with the day before and parked in their driveway in the SCA neighborhood. Since he now knows the neighborhood, he parked his car out of the way, walks to their home or the home they are staying at, and rides along with them to the event.

    Or, he might never have been to that neighborhood before but the people drew a map on the back of a piece of paper he had with him. Once he made it to the neighborhood, he would have just had to turn left and travel down SS to the cul-de-sac. Depending on the quality of the map they drew, they may have indicated where to park and then walk to the house he was going to, which might not have been on EL, but on one of the other streets. He would have been walking with his head down while covering ground knowing that he wouldn't need to look up and be aware of the house numbers until he was at the end of EL. This would have appeared comfortable and purposeful, he was a missionary, he wasn't unaccustomed to being in unfamiliar neighborhoods locating addresses.

    The folder that SK was seen carrying could have very well been issued at the event and contained the schedule and/or training materials, and if he was provided with a map, it is probable he had it with him so that he could open the folder and reference the map. The extra 4 minutes spent in the vehicle could easily have been that he put the map he had been looking at while driving into the folder, double checked his walking path on the map before closing the folder, reviewed the event schedule for the day, made sure he had everything he need, checked his appearance in his mirror, and then gotten out and started walking towards the house.

    Depending on the event, people might have only been in town only for the event, then returned home. If the people he met up with were only in town for the event and were staying w/friends or family in the SCA area for convenience, they would have been gone by the time police started canvasing the neighborhood asking questions. Also, if they were waiting in their vehicle, ready to go, SK may never have gone into the house and the home owner may not have ever seen SK or had any knowledge that he was even there. The people he was joining could have just told the home owner that someone that they had met at the event was going to ride with them, but not even mentioned his name and this wouldn't have raised suspicion.

    Depending on the type of event, i.e. "get rich quick", SK may not have wanted the scrutiny or appearance of being desperate enough to attend one which he why did didn't mention the reason he was there when he spoke on the phone with his fellow church members. But, he could have skipped the second day of the event if "needed" to return for church services.

    An event of this nature would have been advertised and a phone call may not appear suspicious or even needed in order to attend. He would not necessarily have made or received phone calls from people he met at the event, and the event materials may have been in the folder which is why there wasn't anything found in his vehicle mentioning the event. Or, it is possible that an advertisement for the event was found in the vehicle, but overlooked because it didn't seem relevant at the time.

    No harm may have come to him at anytime during the event or from the people that he may have met. But, something might have interfered with his ability to get a ride back to his vehicle. That is maybe where the trail warms up....


    Has anyone checked to see if any of the above events were occurring over that weekend besides the rodeo finals?
    Last edited by Lady LEO; 05-13-2011 at 02:57 PM.

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  23. #13
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    [QUOTE=Lady LEO;6478671]Has anyone here personally gone to a job interview on a Sunday afternoon at a private home or knows someone first hand who has?

    If so, what type of business was it?[/QUOTE

    The only type of job where I could see this happening is if someone was going to do landscaping work, housework, babysitting, etc. for a person, not an actual established business. I could see someone saying “stop by my house this weekend and we’ll talk, you can take a look at the house, yard, etc.” Jobs like this are usually found via Craigslist, ads in local papers or by word of mouth. In Steven’s case, I am leaning towards the later two, ad in a local paper or by word of mouth. We already know that Steven searched for jobs through newspapers. If Steven was led to a job interview via word of mouth, we haven’t heard about it, which would mean someone hasn’t told everything they know….

    Personally, I think he was led to SCA to do manual labor on vacant homes or something to that effect by someone he knew. I believe the only piece of evidence that would contain this info was destroyed – voicemail message.

  24. #14
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    If Steven were meeting someone at SCA for an appointment I'd think that it would be job related vs. avocational related. From what his friends and family say it would have to be something like that to miss church. The reason I mention this is just for focus in our sleuthing.

    That being said, I can easily see him responding to something outside of the norm -a local newspaper ad for some private tutoring, etc. since he already had one of those kinds of jobs -passing out flyers. The only thing is: Wouldn't St. Geoge have something like that? I know the LV area is significantly larger, but I'd wonder about there not being anything that he'd be qualified for available in St. George. Any kind of money he could make from most of those types of jobs would likely be consumed largely by the gas to get there and back. (Admittedly, I don't know anything about flexfeul -I guess it's less expensive, still....)

    One thing I've wondered about for a while and have mentioned it, but perhaps no one thinks it's significant: On the 9th Steven attends church until about 8pm; then goes shopping for, apparently, "regular" things for his kitchen. He receives a call from his father while shopping- about the landlord's call- and very shortly later starts driving like crazy. Could the two be connected?

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  26. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by fridaybaker View Post
    If Steven were meeting someone at SCA for an appointment I'd think that it would be job related vs. avocational related. From what his friends and family say it would have to be something like that to miss church. The reason I mention this is just for focus in our sleuthing.

    That being said, I can easily see him responding to something outside of the norm -a local newspaper ad for some private tutoring, etc. since he already had one of those kinds of jobs -passing out flyers. The only thing is: Wouldn't St. Geoge have something like that? I know the LV area is significantly larger, but I'd wonder about there not being anything that he'd be qualified for available in St. George. Any kind of money he could make from most of those types of jobs would likely be consumed largely by the gas to get there and back. (Admittedly, I don't know anything about flexfeul -I guess it's less expensive, still....)

    One thing I've wondered about for a while and have mentioned it, but perhaps no one thinks it's significant: On the 9th Steven attends church until about 8pm; then goes shopping for, apparently, "regular" things for his kitchen. He receives a call from his father while shopping- about the landlord's call- and very shortly later starts driving like crazy. Could the two be connected?
    I think they are! it set him off somehow. but off to do what??? just drive? think? visit someone other than the n family?

  27. #16
    Leaping Lizards!

    A quick internet search of Las Vegas conferences/seminars/trainings/events/etc for Dec 2009 shows a huge amount of results, some on the possible dates in question, with space for 3000 attendees.

    The harder ones to track down are the fly-by-night "get rich quick seminars." Wealth building, Rich Dad-Poor Dad, etc. are plentiful but difficult to track actual schedules with this amount of time removed from the dates being looked at.

    Another thing that I learned doing this quick internet search is that for some of the more "legitimate" looking scams, if one person has paid the registration fee they can bring a guest for free. If they bring a guest, half of their registration fee is reimbursed so there is an incentive to finding a guest to attend with them. SK would have been a pretty good person to entice since he was actively looking for work and/or encountered people while he was handing out flyers and was offered the opportunity to be a guest.

    May SK was invited to be a guest and this was what he was may have been excited and up-beat about. It might also be why his actions prior to that weekend were almost anxious in nature, perhaps he thought that this was his big break and he wanted to let AN know about it because there is some speculation that she may have been the "one that got away." But, if he thought he had a good job waiting for him and wanted to let AN know so that this might make him appear as if he was an up and comer with more to offer a prospetive wife, the impromptu trip starts to make some sense.

    Many of these seminar scams are 1-3 days in length and as most of us know, they play to your emotions, letting it build so that at the end of the final day, they then hit you with the fee for investing or getting started and people are so reveved up they buy in. They've also been soothed into a false believe in the legitimacy of the seminar because they have received a lot of freebies including DVD, handouts, intro to training material to encourage the build up to the buy in.

    With all of the individual scammers and the larger ones like the John Beck Free & Clear Real Estate Program or Rich Dad Poor Dad, it would take a great deal of work to track down all of the seminars that could have been scheduled during that weekend in December plus the sheer number of venues that Vegas has that can accommodate these seminars.

    The good news is...if we could track down some of the most likely seminars that SK may have been lured too, Vegas has unrivaled surveillance systems and they keep them for years at a time to track players who maybe trying to scam the house, document crimes, etc.

    If we could pursue this, we might be able to narrow down the venue/Casino and could encourage a review of their cctv footage. Lots of work, a bit of a long shot, but might pay off.

    Another thought is that several of my probationers tried to or actually did go to Sacramento to sell security systems, all for the same company, that hired you on the spot, regardless of work history, criminal record, etc.

    The company promised that if you could relocate to Sacramento at your own expense, that you could sell their product and that the market in Sacramento was hot, claiming that some of their sales reps were making $10,000 or more a month. It was strictly commision base. I checked back on my case files and the probationers that did go to Sacramento went in Fall/Winter of 2009-2010 after having attended a training seminar that this company conducted.

    The way they hired people was you just showed up to their offices, you handed them your resume, if you had ever had a job or anything like a sales job, you then had a "mock" interview, then they would tell you at the end of the interview that you were "hired."

    It sounded like they put on a good show of making it appear as though they were discerning on who they would hire, but anyone who didn't look like they were a homeless person would get hired. If you were well groomed, you got the "you're exactly the type of person we're looking for" encouragement speech followed by a relatively believable dissertation about how successful "someone with your talents" will be.

    They then instructed you to come to their 2 day training for all new employees, 20-60 people at a time. They explained that due to the high demand and how hot the Sacramento market was, they were hiring only the best people and had a goal of getting them all trained and out making money ASAP, thus explaining away why there were such a high number of people being trained all at once.

    The beauty of it, is that it required an exceedingly small investment up front from the employees. Just a $200 deposit for the briefcase that contained an operating demo of the security system. It wasn't strictly cold-calling, but luke warm leads that the sales reps would respond to. The "sales reps" were also sharing apartments as roommates as part of the company's temporary "relocation plan." All the more enticing.

    Though some of my probationers did make money from this company, and it wasn't exactly a scam by the strictest of definitions, it was shady and it didn't deliver as promised. But if you weren't making the money you thought you would be, it was attributed to you "just need to hang in there are try harder."

    All of their "sales reps" were considered to be "independent contractors" so they were not actually employed by the company and the company didn't have to withhold taxes, pay worker's comp, offer health insurance, and so forth. But, the company took a huge chunk of the person's earnings...up to 40% to cover their operating costs. The idea of being an independent contractor is sometimes presented under the guise of "being in business for yourself, being your own boss, setting your own hours" and so forth.

    If SK thought that he had been hired by a business like this or this exact business, that would explain the comment about Sacramento, the trip to see AN to tell her maybe let her know that he had more to offer and find out if she would be interested in dating him when he returned after he had accummulated some success/money, and then the trip back to St.G and onto Henderson for the actual "training event." He might have believed that if he was able to make $10k the first month, that he could pay the landlord and also prove to his family that he was successful.
    Last edited by Lady LEO; 05-13-2011 at 05:16 PM.

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  29. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady LEO View Post
    Leaping Lizards!

    A quick internet search of Las Vegas conferences/seminars/trainings/events/etc for Dec 2009 shows a huge amount of results, some on the possible dates in question, with space for 3000 attendees.

    The harder ones to track down are the fly-by-night "get rich quick seminars." Wealth building, Rich Dad-Poor Dad, etc. are plentiful but difficult to track actual schedules with this amount of time removed from the dates being looked at.

    Another thing that I learned doing this quick internet search is that for some of the more "legitimate" looking scams, if one person has paid the registration fee they can bring a guest for free.

    May SK was invited to be a guest and this was what he was may have been excited and up-beat about. It might also be why his actions prior to that weekend were almost anxious in nature, perhaps he thought that this was his big break and he wanted to let AN know about it because there is some speculation that she may have been the "one that got away." But, if he thought he had a good job waiting for him and wanted to let AN know so that this might make him appear as if he was an up and comer with more to offer a prospetive wife, the impromptu trip starts to make some sense.

    Many of these seminar scams are 1-3 days in length and as most of us know, they play to your emotions, letting it build so that at the end of the final day, they then hit you with the fee for investing or getting started and people are so reveved up they buy in. They've also been soothed into a false believe in the legitimacy of the seminar because they have received a lot of freebies including DVD, handouts, intro to training material to encourage the build up to the buy in.

    With all of the individual scammers and the larger ones like the John Beck Free & Clear Real Estate Program or Rich Dad Poor Dad, it would take a great deal of work to track down all of the seminars that could have been scheduled during that weekend in December plus the sheer number of venues that Vegas has that can accommodate these seminars.

    The good news is...if we could track down some of the most likely seminars that SK may have been lured too, Vegas has unrivaled surveillance systems and they keep them for years at a time to track players who maybe trying to scam the house, document crimes, etc.

    If we could pursue this, we might be able to narrow down the venue/Casino and could encourage a review of their cctv footage. Lots of work, a bit of a long shot, but might pay off.

    Another thought is that several of my probationers tried to or actually did go to Sacramento to sell security systems, all for the same company, that hired you on the spot, regardless of work history, criminal record, etc.

    The company promised that if you could relocate to Sacramento at your own expense, that you could sell their product and that the market in Sacramento was hot, claiming that some of their sales reps were making $10,000 or more a month. It was strictly commision base. I checked back on my case files and the probationers that did go to Sacramento went in Fall/Winter of 2009-2010 after having attended a training seminar that this company conducted.

    The way they hired people was you just showed up to their offices, you handed them your resume, if you had ever had a job or anything like a sales job, you then had a "mock" interview, then they would tell you at the end of the interview that you were "hired."

    It sounded like they put on a good show of making it appear as though they were discerning on who they would hire, but anyone who didn't look like they were a homeless person would get hired. If you were well groomed, you got the "you're exactly the type of person we're looking for" encouragement speech followed by a relatively believable dissertation about how successful "someone with your talents" will be.

    They then instructed you to come to their 2 day training for all new employees, 20-60 people at a time. They explained that due to the high demand and how hot the Sacramento market was, they were hiring only the best people and had a goal of getting them all trained and out making money ASAP, thus explaining away why there were such a high number of people being trained all at once.

    The beauty of it, is that it required an exceedingly small investment up front from the employees. Just a $200 deposit for the briefcase that contained an operating demo of the security system. It wasn't strictly cold-calling, but luke warm leads that the sales reps would respond to. The "sales reps" were also sharing apartments as roommates as part of the company's temporary "relocation plan." All the more enticing.

    Though some of my probationers did make money from this company, and it wasn't exactly a scam by the strictest of definitions, it was shady and it didn't deliver as promised. But if you weren't making the money you thought you would be, it was attributed to you "just need to hang in there are try harder."

    All of their "sales reps" were considered to be "independent contractors" so they were not actually employed by the company and the company didn't have to withhold taxes, pay worker's comp, offer health insurance, and so forth. But, the company took a huge chunk of the person's earnings...up to 40% to cover their operating costs. The idea of being an independent contractor is sometimes presented under the guise of "being in business for yourself, being your own boss, setting your own hours" and so forth.

    If SK thought that he had been hired by a business like this or this exact business, that would explain the comment about Sacramento, the trip to see AN to tell her maybe let her know that he had more to offer and find out if she would be interested in dating him when he returned after he had accummulated some success/money, and then the trip back to St.G and onto Henderson for the actual "training event." He might have believed that if he was able to make $10k the first month, that he could pay the landlord and also prove to his family that he was successful.
    I've never even considered him attending something like this, good idea!

    I don't know alot about these types of businesses, but I did recently watch an episode of Disappeared where a young woman was part of a group that was paid to travel from city-to-city selling magazine subscriptions door-to-door. The whole business was kind of shady and it sounded like they would hire anyone that had a clean appearance. Steven would definitely be the "type" these businesses would look for.

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  31. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by fridaybaker View Post
    If Steven were meeting someone at SCA for an appointment I'd think that it would be job related vs. avocational related. From what his friends and family say it would have to be something like that to miss church. The reason I mention this is just for focus in our sleuthing.

    That being said, I can easily see him responding to something outside of the norm -a local newspaper ad for some private tutoring, etc. since he already had one of those kinds of jobs -passing out flyers. The only thing is: Wouldn't St. Geoge have something like that? I know the LV area is significantly larger, but I'd wonder about there not being anything that he'd be qualified for available in St. George. Any kind of money he could make from most of those types of jobs would likely be consumed largely by the gas to get there and back. (Admittedly, I don't know anything about flexfeul -I guess it's less expensive, still....)

    One thing I've wondered about for a while and have mentioned it, but perhaps no one thinks it's significant: On the 9th Steven attends church until about 8pm; then goes shopping for, apparently, "regular" things for his kitchen. He receives a call from his father while shopping- about the landlord's call- and very shortly later starts driving like crazy. Could the two be connected?

    I think if he was really desperate for money, he would consider almost any job. He went from being a journalist to passing out flyers for window washing, so I don’t think that Steven looking for manual labor type of work is out of the question. In this economy, many people are finding themselves working in jobs that they never would have considered before. I know people with Master’s degrees that are waiting tables right now because that’s all they can find. Sometimes something is better than nothing.

    As far the phone call and his driving, I think they are definitely connected. I think Steven was already stressed out and the phone call with his father just pushed him further over the edge. I don’t know if he was driving to blow off steam or to seek someone out though.

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  33. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by fridaybaker View Post
    Laytonian: We miss your timeline!! (or at least some of us do -can't see it anymore.)
    Wonder what happened?
    Speaking of mysteries - billions of people past/present, how on earth did I get be on earth and self-aware?

    Rule-of-Three (click to visit blog)

    Red Flags When Spouse Goes Missing (click to visit blog)

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  35. #20
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    hollyblue is offline It may be the cock that crows, but it is the hen that lays the eggs.
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    What type of job interview or inquiry...if it was scheduled, would allow him to return to take over for GW that day in SG and skip? ....if we are to believe the conversations as given.

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  37. #21
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    This just in on the news::
    Human Skull, Bones Found SW Of Vegas http://dlvr.it/Rf66D #vegas

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  39. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady LEO View Post
    Has anyone here personally gone to a job interview on a Sunday afternoon at a private home or knows someone first hand who has?

    If so, what type of business was it?

    What do most people do on Sundays?

    Why would someone be going to a private residence at a specific time?

    How do we know that the time was specific to an appointment? Could have been coincidence. He stopped in unannounced at a private residence in the middle of the day during the work week just days prior.

    The presumption that SK was going to a job interview doesn't ring true to me. The day of the week and the location just aren't right. Interviews on Saturdays are pretty rare, let alone Sunday afternoons.

    I have heard of weekend retreats/conferences/get-aways/seminars/events/or holiday festival/concerts that will be conducted on Saturday and Sundays. This was the second week of December when it would be reasonable that holiday events would be well into their schedule. Also, there are those 2 day "get rich quick" conferences that will occur on Saturdays and Sundays, frequently w/o a cost for admission. Knowing that SK was struggling for a job, this type of conference may have interested him and possible even gotten him excited about his future new business prospects, this could have been viewed as his big break. If he had been planning on attending an event of this nature, this may be why he sounded up-beat in the days prior, because he was excited about the opportunity to turn thing around.

    Not to mention that Vegas is a hot spot for conferences or large scale events.

    The Overton ping on Saturday could have been the outbound journey to Henderson, spent the day at the event, with the Mesquite ping representing the return trip.

    The start time for the Sunday sessions will sometimes be later in the morning or after the lunch hour and will be restricted to the afternoon hours before concluding. Cell phones off during the time spent in the event, cell phone back on after the retreat is over, thus the ping on Sunday evening.

    SK may have met people at the retreat/conference who offered to let him ride with them the next day. Because of gmith's input here on WS, we know that when possible, SK would prefer to have other people drive because he didn't want to spend money on gas, even if it was just short trips or just two friends hanging out.

    So, Saturday night, SK returns to St. George to his apartment, is seen for only 30 mins before he is observed by the neighbor leaving again, and he returns to Henderson, but sleeps in his car which is why the pillows and blanket and toiletry bag are in the back seat and more items aren't packed or missing from his home.

    Next morning, maybe he runs a few errands, pays cash for breakfast, and then joins up with the people in the SCA area who he may have visited with the day before and parked in their driveway in the SCA neighborhood. Since he now knows the neighborhood, he parked his car out of the way, walks to their home or the home they are staying at, and rides along with them to the event.

    Or, he might never have been to that neighborhood before but the people drew a map on the back of a piece of paper he had with him. Once he made it to the neighborhood, he would have just had to turn left and travel down SS to the cul-de-sac. Depending on the quality of the map they drew, they may have indicated where to park and then walk to the house he was going to, which might not have been on EL, but on one of the other streets. He would have been walking with his head down while covering ground knowing that he wouldn't need to look up and be aware of the house numbers until he was at the end of EL. This would have appeared comfortable and purposeful, he was a missionary, he wasn't unaccustomed to being in unfamiliar neighborhoods locating addresses.

    The folder that SK was seen carrying could have very well been issued at the event and contained the schedule and/or training materials, and if he was provided with a map, it is probable he had it with him so that he could open the folder and reference the map. The extra 4 minutes spent in the vehicle could easily have been that he put the map he had been looking at while driving into the folder, double checked his walking path on the map before closing the folder, reviewed the event schedule for the day, made sure he had everything he need, checked his appearance in his mirror, and then gotten out and started walking towards the house.

    Depending on the event, people might have only been in town only for the event, then returned home. If the people he met up with were only in town for the event and were staying w/friends or family in the SCA area for convenience, they would have been gone by the time police started canvasing the neighborhood asking questions. Also, if they were waiting in their vehicle, ready to go, SK may never have gone into the house and the home owner may not have ever seen SK or had any knowledge that he was even there. The people he was joining could have just told the home owner that someone that they had met at the event was going to ride with them, but not even mentioned his name and this wouldn't have raised suspicion.

    Depending on the type of event, i.e. "get rich quick", SK may not have wanted the scrutiny or appearance of being desperate enough to attend one which he why did didn't mention the reason he was there when he spoke on the phone with his fellow church members. But, he could have skipped the second day of the event if "needed" to return for church services.

    An event of this nature would have been advertised and a phone call may not appear suspicious or even needed in order to attend. He would not necessarily have made or received phone calls from people he met at the event, and the event materials may have been in the folder which is why there wasn't anything found in his vehicle mentioning the event. Or, it is possible that an advertisement for the event was found in the vehicle, but overlooked because it didn't seem relevant at the time.

    No harm may have come to him at anytime during the event or from the people that he may have met. But, something might have interfered with his ability to get a ride back to his vehicle. That is maybe where the trail warms up....


    Has anyone checked to see if any of the above events were occurring over that weekend besides the rodeo finals?
    When I was young yes I went on an interview on Saturday, Sunday and every other day of the week. I have interviewed at someone's home for a typist job when I was young and I did not call the person who was hiring. I was sent over by the Youth Employment Agency. The agency called the person but I didn't.

    The kind of jobs that I interviewed on Sunday was at a retail store. So it is very possible.

    Kelly

  40. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by guitar3 View Post
    This just in on the news::
    Human Skull, Bones Found SW Of Vegas http://dlvr.it/Rf66D #vegas
    Do they as a routine announce the findings to the public?

    Kelly

  41. #24
    What happened to Laytonian and her time line? Is there a break in the case? I can't imagine why she would take it down.

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  43. #25
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    I don't think Laytonian's been here since the 11th and her timeline has disappeared as well. I just tried to get onto the ForSteven website and it seems to be down also. ??

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