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  1. #766
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    And for me I just can't imagine SG being that close to those other bodies without there being some connection.

  2. #767
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbird View Post
    And for me I just can't imagine SG being that close to those other bodies without there being some connection.
    It does seem to be a very huge coincidence. I'm having trouble imagining they are not connected, too. I suppose it's possible. But probably unlikely, imo.

  3. #768
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chanler View Post
    Hi, KPCrimeNY, there are prostitutes who are controlled by pimps, but Shannan certainly does not fit that bill. She handled her own calls, doled out the money, paid the rent, bought generous gifts for her family and friends, and was working on her exit strategy without apparent interference from her boyfriend, with whom she even went on movie dates. When her driver entered SG's house, he didn't strong-arm her to leave or force payment from the john; he sat down and tried to wait it out. By every account, Shannan was her own boss.

    This is all a far cry from what I saw and have heard about traditional pimps. On my block, I saw some very dominant pimps who kept all the money their girls made, even searching their undergarments for stashed cash; and others who slapped them around for being lazy. Some streetwalkers who spoke little if any English seemed especially vulnerable.

    As for your statement, about the coincidence of Shannan's disappearance and the four burlap-covered bodies, I think that you are right. On her manic run, Shannan was supercharged; by the time, she was overtaken by exhaustion and the realization that she was in the middle of nowhere without a ride home, she could have gone far. It's possible, as old resident Coletti suggested, she might have drowned in the jetties.
    Bold 1: I hear what you are saying. But, to me that fits the bill of the street walking, enslaved, drug addicted (on purpose) and abused girls we hear about. ("prince" Jersey City) Anybody please, I am that wrong thinking that girls that are on CL or any one of the girls in this story can be controlled by pimps? I was reading about Massage Parlors on Backpage today. Are there not pimps in the process there when the money goes to the owner and the tip goes to the girl?

    Bold 2: Besides the gifts which her family said and I believe. I have a hard time believing the rest coming from her ever so loving jaw breaking "boyfriend". When he is interviewed by the papers is he suppose to say something like "nah I don't lover her or miss her she was just one of the many girls I have making me money"?

    Bold 3: I will use one of my favorite quotes from watching to much live coverage of the Caylee case. "Objection your honor. Hearsay!" SUPPOSEDLY he walks in the house and she is on the phone with 911 for some time now. Is he really going to start throwing her around the house? As for sitting it down and waiting it out. I have heard he tried and walked out and sat in the car until she took off running. Another though I have here, whether they are close or he is controlling wouldn't the most sense at this point have been to force her to the car and get the heck out of there? I do believe she may have had a good relationship with MP though. As for SG being the boss, I have yet to hear her quoted saying it so I'm not buying it. Every one of the people that have offered the info of that have everything to hide in my opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chanler View Post
    Hi, GoatHairJones, Jersey City is a big city; one pimp does not control the entire town. And one would imagine that after being arrested, he would have had things on his mind other than killing a woman with whom he has no known connection. Constructing conpiracy theories is the easiest things on earth; you just have to add additional personnel.......
    If this is "Prince" the guy I saw news about today I am thinking in my opinion there is no connection. Again, he seemed like streetwalking, typical pimp everyone thinks of. To me "pimp" in these cases seem more like managers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redbird View Post
    And for me I just can't imagine SG being that close to those other bodies without there being some connection.
    Quote Originally Posted by susan1122 View Post
    It does seem to be a very huge coincidence. I'm having trouble imagining they are not connected, too. I suppose it's possible. But probably unlikely, imo.
    Redbird & Susan,
    I will just lay out my opinions and why I am starting to lean that way.
    1. Driver takes her to JB. SK picked girls up or got them to come alone.
    (Unless the drifter exists or some other party that set her up that night I don't see why JB if SK would have her come to his house)
    2. I have a hard time believing that a SK just got so lucky to find a CL prostitute running around that night after this scene.
    3. 911 supposedly has her being dragged into vehicle. (MP sticks out here)
    4. After SG two more went missing and their bodies were found with the other earlier two. I understand not putting SG where first two went if your the SK but, I don't understand returning with another two after the ruckus caused at JB's that night if you were there and the SK.
    5. AGAIN, sorry to beat a dead horse (no pun) but, the NJ story just recently about the bag of trash in the pipeline in NJ City. The news reported police had wondered if it was the body of SG when they were notified. Why are the NJ police looking for a body connected to SK in Oak Beach in sewers of NJ City? I think also my opinion it is known that SG left OB in a vehicle that night. (I just saw a whole new scene in my head as typing this, a theory of sorts connecting the final call and videos missing from Gate)
    6. I was kinda thinking that the most recent searches of OB were for more SK victims like the GB4. Also thinking that they may have been more of evidence searches as well.

    Other notes:
    Somebody in OB knows whats up as well as somewhere else NJ I believe. Hopefully the new reward gets somebody to speak up.

    Also, I did some searching on Lace Party Girls the escort biz that SG, MP and boyfriend worked for. Easy searches on Google you can find the same I don't want to link inappropriate. First search brought me to a webiste where something about that company had been updated in the last two months? The website on the ad does not exist anymore. So I searched that same company name with Jersey City I believe. Wouldn't you know it existed. New website. With interesting note that they were not excepting any new clients. All seems fishy to me.

  4. #769
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    136
    Body found Dec. 11
    Between Gilgo and Cedar
    Suffolk police found the first body -- later identified as Melissa Barthelemy -- wrapped in burlap while conducting a search for Shannan Gilbert, 24.

    Body found Dec. 13
    Between Gilgo and Cedar
    Megan Waterman, found strangled 1,000 feet east of the first body, also wrapped in burlap.

    Body found Dec. 13
    Between Gilgo and Cedar
    Maureen Brainard-Barnes, found 500 feet east of the first body, also wrapped in burlap.

    Body found Dec. 13
    Between Gilgo and Cedar
    Amber Lynn Costello, found strangled 500 feet west of the first body, also wrapped in burlap

    Body found March 29
    One mile east of original four bodies
    A skull, hands and forearms discovered were identified on May 9, as those of Jessica Taylor, who was killed in 2003. Her torso was found within a week after her death in a wooded area of Manorville near the Long Island Expressway.

    Body found April 4
    Just east of original bodies
    John Doe, believed to be an Asian male, in his late teens or early 20s. Not identified.

    Body found April 4
    Found east of Cedar Beach Park
    Unidentified girl, believed to be 18-24 months old. wrapped in a blanket with no sign of trauma.

    Body found April 4
    Found east of Cedar Beach Park
    Police found a set of remains of an unidentified woman connected to those discovered Nov. 19, 2000 in Manorville.

    Human bones found April 11
    East of Zach's Bay, Jones Beach tower
    Found in a plastic bag less than 40 feet from Ocean Parkway -- 1.5 miles east of the Jones Beach tower.

    Skull found April 11
    West of Tobay Beach
    Found in a wildlife sanctuary at Tobay Beach -- about 4 miles west of original bodies.


    This is from the Newsday map. bolded by me. I'm wondering why it mentions that MW and ALC were strangled, but with MBB and MB, there was no mention of strangulation here..? Could it be that that coudn't be determined? Or did the SK change his ways in between MBB/MB and MW/ALC. Does anyone know if a COD was mentioned anywhere for MBB and MB?

    http://www.newsday.com/long-island/s...ches-1.2541830

  5. #770
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    internetgirl101, Thanks much for transcribing portions of the newsday article! It is so frustrating for me NOT t be able to read them.

    This information confirms my suspicions that the girls accepted car dates. I really think they had had appts with this person prior to being murdered! JMO.

    I have more thoughts but am unable to convey right now.....too much activity around here today to concentrate! I live at the beach and during the summer, visitors seem to come out of the woodwork! Every darn weekend LOL! I actually look forward to Mondays in the summertime!

    wm
    ...and be sure your sin will find you out.

    Numbers,32:23

  6. #771
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    this article states all 4 deaths were due to homicidal asphyxiation

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_16...-10391695.html

    and IIRC, one victim still had something around her neck (I think it was Waterman)

  7. #772
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrsPC View Post
    AC's roommate seems to think she was lured by the $$$ for that last call...

    but heck, if she was earning $7k per week...I'm thinking she was lured by something more...
    I suspect the SK might be easy on the eyes. Someone like Ted Bundy that has looks and charm. Maybe he even employs a father figure type charm to make them feel comfortable. Good looks could help explain their secrecy, and maybe the combination of looks and courting them once or twice is enough for them to break their own safety rules. If SG did get in some random guy's car to get home that morning, maybe his looks helped achieve this? If he did court them, he would have had a very busy summer last year. Which leads me to believe he might be single.

    Reading up on some other SK's I was a little suprised at the amount that have military experience. I can think of 4 offhand.

    If there really is a 2008 gap in murders maybe he was deployed in Iraq or Afghanistan? Rather than a cooling off period or prison. Part of me thinks there was a year gap between murders. The summer of 2010 seems like a binge after a purge.

  8. #773
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    Quote Originally Posted by KAYTOM View Post
    I suspect the SK might be easy on the eyes. Someone like Ted Bundy that has looks and charm. Maybe he even employs a father figure type charm to make them feel comfortable. Good looks could help explain their secrecy, and maybe the combination of looks and courting them once or twice is enough for them to break their own safety rules. If SG did get in some random guy's car to get home that morning, maybe his looks helped achieve this? If he did court them, he would have had a very busy summer last year. Which leads me to believe he might be single.

    Reading up on some other SK's I was a little suprised at the amount that have military experience. I can think of 4 offhand.

    If there really is a 2008 gap in murders maybe he was deployed in Iraq or Afghanistan? Rather than a cooling off period or prison. Part of me thinks there was a year gap between murders. The summer of 2010 seems like a binge after a purge.
    Kaytom,

    That military scenario sounds plausible. I was also thinking that the SK is in law enforcement and the girls knew this. A couple of the girls had mentioned to their families that their clients included cops. Maybe the girls knew this guy was a cop and they had him as a customer a couple of times and they trusted him. That is the only scenario I could fathom that would justify ALC and MW to not take their cell phone with them.

    I really think the key to this case will be determining how this guy persuaded them to leave their cell phone behind. And this is the only justification that I can think of. They knew he was a cop and they trusted him.

  9. #774
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    IMO they would not have trusted a cop and I'll bet they have a few tales to tell about "dating" cops.

    I have been looking over my notes for a pattern and here is what has jumped out at me: All four girls were killed the week after a summer holiday. All four girls, as best I can find, could have set up an all night date and met the SK secretly as Amber did. Shannan does not fit the pattern. It was not a holiday. Her death would have been unplanned. Could she have discovered who the SK is? Could he have planned her for the Memorial day weekend and she got wind of it? Could she have already had one date with him? Could she have been on the phone to the SK that night and he found out where she was and that she knew who he was? (She had more than one phone). Big mystery. I can't believe she wasn't connected to the other girls somehow, but her disappearance and the lack of a body does not fit in. Were any of the Manorville murders committed after a summer holiday?

  10. #775
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    I still can't shake my suspicions of Brewer but I don't think he was a smooth talker or easy on the eyes at all....

    I just don't believe in too many coincidences.


  11. #776
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrsPC View Post
    AC's roommate seems to think she was lured by the $$$ for that last call...

    but heck, if she was earning $7k per week...I'm thinking she was lured by something more...
    Hi, MrsPC, I think that the glory days of seven thousand dollars a week were in the past. I think that Amber lived in the moment and probably wasn't squirreling away great quantities of cash.

  12. #777
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    Quote Originally Posted by KPCrimeNY View Post
    Bold 1: I hear what you are saying. But, to me that fits the bill of the street walking, enslaved, drug addicted (on purpose) and abused girls we hear about. ("prince" Jersey City) Anybody please, I am that wrong thinking that girls that are on CL or any one of the girls in this story can be controlled by pimps? I was reading about Massage Parlors on Backpage today. Are there not pimps in the process there when the money goes to the owner and the tip goes to the girl?

    Bold 2: Besides the gifts which her family said and I believe. I have a hard time believing the rest coming from her ever so loving jaw breaking "boyfriend". When he is interviewed by the papers is he suppose to say something like "nah I don't lover her or miss her she was just one of the many girls I have making me money"?

    Bold 3: I will use one of my favorite quotes from watching to much live coverage of the Caylee case. "Objection your honor. Hearsay!" SUPPOSEDLY he walks in the house and she is on the phone with 911 for some time now. Is he really going to start throwing her around the house? As for sitting it down and waiting it out. I have heard he tried and walked out and sat in the car until she took off running. Another though I have here, whether they are close or he is controlling wouldn't the most sense at this point have been to force her to the car and get the heck out of there? I do believe she may have had a good relationship with MP though. As for SG being the boss, I have yet to hear her quoted saying it so I'm not buying it. Every one of the people that have offered the info of that have everything to hide in my opinion.

    If this is "Prince" the guy I saw news about today I am thinking in my opinion there is no connection. Again, he seemed like streetwalking, typical pimp everyone thinks of. To me "pimp" in these cases seem more like managers.

    Redbird & Susan,
    I will just lay out my opinions and why I am starting to lean that way.
    1. Driver takes her to JB. SK picked girls up or got them to come alone.
    (Unless the drifter exists or some other party that set her up that night I don't see why JB if SK would have her come to his house)
    2. I have a hard time believing that a SK just got so lucky to find a CL prostitute running around that night after this scene.
    3. 911 supposedly has her being dragged into vehicle. (MP sticks out here)
    4. After SG two more went missing and their bodies were found with the other earlier two. I understand not putting SG where first two went if your the SK but, I don't understand returning with another two after the ruckus caused at JB's that night if you were there and the SK.
    5. AGAIN, sorry to beat a dead horse (no pun) but, the NJ story just recently about the bag of trash in the pipeline in NJ City. The news reported police had wondered if it was the body of SG when they were notified. Why are the NJ police looking for a body connected to SK in Oak Beach in sewers of NJ City? I think also my opinion it is known that SG left OB in a vehicle that night. (I just saw a whole new scene in my head as typing this, a theory of sorts connecting the final call and videos missing from Gate)
    6. I was kinda thinking that the most recent searches of OB were for more SK victims like the GB4. Also thinking that they may have been more of evidence searches as well.

    Other notes:
    Somebody in OB knows whats up as well as somewhere else NJ I believe. Hopefully the new reward gets somebody to speak up.

    Also, I did some searching on Lace Party Girls the escort biz that SG, MP and boyfriend worked for. Easy searches on Google you can find the same I don't want to link inappropriate. First search brought me to a webiste where something about that company had been updated in the last two months? The website on the ad does not exist anymore. So I searched that same company name with Jersey City I believe. Wouldn't you know it existed. New website. With interesting note that they were not excepting any new clients. All seems fishy to me.
    Hi, KPCrimeNY, thanks for a thoughtful post. I agree with you about Shannan not being one of the victims of the serial killer.

    Bold face 1. I will limit my comments to Shannan. Unless we're just tossing around the word (and I know that you aren't), pimps mean physical and financial control. According to her sisters (with whom she had frequent contact), Shannan quit escort services and began advertising herself. With her cellphone calls and visits with her family and friends, she obviously wasn't under any one's thumb. And her generosity seems to have been one of her most notable characteristics. Not only that, she was spending substantial sums paying for college courses that would help her transition to a new life. Her boyfriend might have been the dud in the relationship, but he wasn't calling the shots.

    Bold face 2. If you can't believe anything that the boyfriend and the driver say, you're left with creating your own Rorschach from a mostly blank page. The police are able to check their public statements and police interviews with other interviews, phone records, and computer records. I will make no apologies for the boyfriend hitting poor Shannan, but they stayed together for years thereafter and the family, who certainly knew about him, seems to have made no strong assertions on his dark involvement in her death. Given her multiple problems, the duration of their relationship does suggest that they had an emotional bond.

    Bold face 3. According to Pak, he tried to wait out the call, but left frustrated before it was over. As her driver, he would have known that she had even less familiarity with the exact location than he did and as a witness to her inebriated, irrational condition at the time (which seems to be generally agreed upon), he could surmise that the 911 operators wouldn't be overwrought if someone just took the phone away from her. Shannan trusted him and, by all the evidence that we know, he tried to get her safely home.
    Last edited by Chanler; 06-19-2011 at 09:17 PM.

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