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Thread: TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #2

  1. #526
    Oriah is offline Verified Expert/Professional in SAR and K9SAR
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emeralgem View Post
    Were there two callls or just one? I would think both calls would be on dispatch. Didn't MP report her missing also? Does anyone know who called 911 first? Was it MP or Gail's sister, Diane? Do we know?
    Does anyone know if they both called the SMPD? If Gail's sister called directly and so did MP then yes there should be two.

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  3. #527
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    Quote Originally Posted by Columbo View Post
    bolded by me.

    You know--the birth control idea may not be all that funny. If she did take birth control pills, it is a regular medication that she probably would want to keep taking. If she used other forms of birth control (assuming she needed to--i.e. no hysterectomy) and DID take them or it with her, that could point to her meeting up with a male friend. I really, really doubt this, but it's something to think about.

    And what about any other meds she might have taken on a daily basis? Thyroid medication, for example. I'm only guessing but she would need to take these things with her if she were really going away.
    Exactly-sorry if my post was obscure. Did she leave with anything other than her keys and cellphone (TY Oriah for clarifying for me) that she might depend on? I mean she took nothing with her with which she could transact her day to day business other than her cell phone and her keys?

    Or am I mistaken?
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  5. #528
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    Quote Originally Posted by fbx View Post
    When she is found, the only laughing from her friends will be from uncontrollable and intense relief, no matter how angry she may be...but I've never heard Gail raise her voice in anger (not to say she doesn't)...firm, emphatic, no-nonsense, frustrated...but not mad as hell and the fury that implies...

    I don't know all you said due to the snipping, but the main problem is that he didn't look for her, let a supposedly crazed woman drive off with his kids, lawyered up with a CD lawyer, made out of context statements on a court order to make his wife look bad, and just implied in a PC he was doing everything possible to find her. ( he would be rolling into bed at midnight exhausted from talking to everyone he could and passing out fliers and on facebook etc....he hired a PI yes, but what is the PI doing exactly...?).

    Matt is indeed very smart, but how does he think this makes him look.....how do you even really explain this? These are not smart-"bereaved" husband actions, they seem more like smart "guilty" husband.

    Honestly Confused, he's brought all this speculation down upon his own head. I like Matt, and his mom is lovely. I hatewhat's happening and just want to find Gail, because running can't possibly be the resolution to their problems. The people looking for her just want to find her...not to accuse and gossip about Matt. But he makes it so HARD!

    If the kids refused to go with Gail, then it can be for so very many reasons...none of them logical...and none meaning they don't want to be with her...been there, so I do know something about this.
    Refusing to go, can be a power play to make her stay...and in so much turmoil, home is a huge magnet because home has mom (and dad) in it and until one is gone, they have no way to measure how un-homelike an place can turn out to be....

    For Matt to collaborate with the search effort is all it would take...but by now he's managed to spread so much suspicion, it would be very awkward for him to do so...but it truly is "never too late".
    Well, this sums it up nicely.

    Matt doesnt care what a board of people who discuss MP and crime think...who would when they are in a situation like this? I cant believe with his spare time he is sitting around cataloging comments made about him either here, or in the comment sections of the media.

    At least at WS we have very particular rules about posting-in the general media, as we have seen, it is a free for all. *shrug*
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oriah View Post
    Should be on dispatch, I would think. At least the call from Diane to the SMPD.
    It WOULD be on the dispatch log,
    but since we don't have access to that,
    was hoping that someone would find out from Diane.

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    So for clarification of the time line

    we would like to know the date and time of the calls to report Gail missing and the time of her last phone call to her sister-is this correct?

    Can anyone fill any of this in for us?
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  11. #531
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forums4Justice View Post
    It WOULD be on the dispatch log,
    but since we don't have access to that,
    was hoping that someone would find out from Diane.
    That would be much easier than FOIA, that's for sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by believe09 View Post
    Well, this sums it up nicely.

    Matt doesnt care what a board of people who discuss MP and crime think...who would when they are in a situation like this? I cant believe with his spare time he is sitting around cataloging comments made about him either here, or in the comment sections of the media.

    At least at WS we have very particular rules about posting-in the general media, as we have seen, it is a free for all. *shrug*
    Well, for what it's worth, someone seems to care what people online say about Matt, even if what is said is relatively benign. I've seen comments trashing Gail, such as the comments left here and here. It could be the usual internet running-at-the-mouth problem that comes up with every topic, or it could be something more concerning.

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    To me he looks like a man who really doesn't know what to do next. He is sitting in a really weird spot, and I would assume that he doesn't know what to do or what to say. People who he probably thought were his friends have begun rumors and said nasty things-think neighbors. He's pretty much damned if he does (everyone will pick apart every word he utters and make more out of any statement, look, twitch) AND damned if he doesn't (being quiet is making the rumor mill take off).
    I'm not saying that either of them are in the wrong or right. It just seems that many instantly jumped to the conclusion that he is an evil demon. The big, rich man who got rid of his trouble making wife... There is no evidence to prove that. There's no evidence period! Just rumors.
    While I do think that Matt and the police and even Gails siblings should be searching for her, I don't think that any of us others really have the right to interfere. If we want to watch for her jeep, great<modsnip>
    As for proving you wrong, I would love to do that. Doing so would not only take suspicion off of Matt and his family, but would mean that we knew where Gail is and what she is up to. I would love to be able to do that, but I can't. I don't know what happened or what is going on. None of us on this forum do. I don't think Matt does. That is exactly why it bothers me so much when the nasty senarios are posted. Once they are out there, they can't be taken back. Example, if Gail showed up tomorrow and said all was well and she and Matt made up... there is always that suspicion. It never goes away. People meeting them 10 years from now will think... Palmgren- isn't that those people who???
    You can never know what someone is capable of, but my knowledge of Matt Palmgren doesn't let me believe that he has done anything to harm Gail. He is a friendly, personable, fun loving type. He is a concerned and involved father - coaching ball teams, etc. He isn't the type to own a lake house for the prestige of it, but to have a great place to take the kids for the weekend. He's the type to take an afternoon off from work to take his mother to the Dr., or take a flight 100's of miles to go to the funeral or wedding of a friend. He's far from perfect, but I would never have imagined that he would be in the present situation. I am not in any way saying that people shouldn't be searching for Gail - I look for her jeep everywhere I go, and if there is an organized community search, I will be there. <modsnip comments about members> With the lack of true facts, we need to be open minded and searching for the truth, not focused on creating senarios that point to Matt.
    thank you for that. I have said before, i will be floored if MP really is involved in this in a sinister way, even though I only have met him a few times. I have always liked him, from the time I met him. I too think he is in a tough spot. I DO think there is more he could be doing, and should be doing, like helping with the searches, or posting more flyers, or more televised heart-felt pleas, but that is only MOO, and there may be reasons unbeknownst to us as to WHY he is not. And maybe too much time had past in their marriage where there was any real love involved, I don't know. But she still is the mother of his children, that alone should induce a bit more outward-appearing compassion, if only for their sakes.

    I pray for all of them.

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    MP may seem like the underdog to you, but to many of us here, he has his house, his kids, his money, and his safety, and GP- we cannot be sure she has any of those.
    exactly. at this point, she MUST come first.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oriah View Post
    I own several reidences in different states. I register vehicles where ever taxes are cheapest. Since I split time between all residences, neither my insurance nor the DMV has an issue with the registrations.
    On my DL, however- I have to state a 'primary residence.' I just choose whichever one has the lowest taxes.

    I asked earlier if anyone knew if she purchased the Jeep outright, if it was a lease, or a loan? Anyone know?
    Just wanted to mention... I wouldn't think that it would be for that reason. The taxes in AL when you register a vehicle and get your license is not cheap at all. I have family that lived in Baldwin Co, AL and they always complained that the taxes were so high. In TN however, it only costs about $24 to renew your tags every year and the registration cost is based on the price of the vehicle. I should clarify, this is for Hamilton/Sequatchie Co. Each county is slightly different in cost.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kikidee View Post
    thank you for that. I have said before, i will be floored if MP really is involved in this in a sinister way, even though I only have met him a few times. I have always liked him, from the time I met him. I too think he is in a tough spot. I DO think there is more he could be doing, and should be doing, like helping with the searches, or posting more flyers, or more televised heart-felt pleas, but that is only MOO, and there may be reasons unbeknownst to us as to WHY he is not. And maybe too much time had past in their marriage where there was any real love involved, I don't know. But she still is the mother of his children, that alone should induce a bit more outward-appearing compassion, if only for their sakes.

    I pray for all of them.
    Agreed. And perhaps, at the end of the day, he is not sad that she is gone. Maybe he is relieved that she is out of his life.

    Which does NOT mean he caused it to happen.

    But, it still doesnt explain to me why he didnt at least go through the motions...the custody thing still makes no sense whatsoever to me, and I think it was an atty advised thing to position him for a civil divorce action. JMVHO.
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    I've been thinking a lot about ways to find the jeep. I have Sirius satellite radio in my car. We pay extra for something called Sirius Travel Link. It is an extra feature that can show me weather, accidents along a route I have entered, etc. It also shows me the nearest intersection. I wonder if Sirius also has a way to access that information whether or not she had a subscription. We let our subscription lapse and all I had to do to reconnect it was contact Sirius, make sure my car was not in the garage at a certain time, and they sent the signal to the car. I wonder if Sirius could send a signal to locate the car?

    Another thing I have found is that in 2010 the Jeep Rubicon came with the option of UConnect phone and/or Web. It allows you to do the bluetooth calls if she paired her phone with it AND it makes your car a mobile hotspot. Sooo, we don't know if she upgraded to this option. We need to find out because if she did have it, there is a FindMyCar App.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irish_Eyes View Post
    What those kids know is the clue to everything in this case. They know what Gail's mental state was like on that long drive to the lake. If she talked to anyone on her cell during that drive, they heard it. How was she on the way back? When did her and Matt have the conversation about her bringing the kids back? Did she unpack the car? Was it really only ten minutes or so between the time she left and he got home? After he got home and realized she wasn't there, did he try to call her? Did he reach her? Did he leave the house at any point after that? Or the next day? How did her family come to believe she was missing? Were they trying to reach her? Or did he call them and say he hadn't heard from her in x days?
    yes, this is driving me crazy! WHAT DO THOSE KIDS KNOW!! I understand not grilling them during this horrible time, but they must know something, and they have surely told their dad. And has he told the LE? 'Cause he hasn't told G's family, correct?

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    http://genuinechryslerwarranty.com/n...consumers.html

    www.autonetmobile.com

    http://www.autonetmobile.com/apps/apps.html

    I would think this is an upgrade that most people would pass up, but there are several options that came on my car that I didn't want or need but they came in a package that was cheaper overall. I bet she didn't have the FindMyCar App but if she did have the UConnect web why couldn't the app be downloaded now?? You download it by setting up an online account. It appears you don't have to have the car to do it! Please please let this be!

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    Just FWIW, on this 'Gail was dillusional' thing. This is a common ploy an abuser will use. Turn the tide on the victim. IF all else fails, they say "See what you made me do."

    Obviously Gail found out about the other woman as revealed by the neighbor. As there had been recent dv 911 calls answered to the home, it appears to be a matter of a spouse finding out their spouse cheated and trying to deal with the betrayal. I'm am pretty confident there were many more discussions, and most likely angry discussions about his betrayal. It's not beyond believing there were even personal threats and intimidation to get the discussion off the guilty party (meaning the cheater).

    I'm not saying the husband did anything, but he COULD have threatened to , which was why Gail was scared and concerned for her safety. She MAY have been followed as backed up by the neighbor who said she DID see a strange car in the neighborhood several times at the time Gail said she was being 'followed.' We don't know the true answer except speculation, at this time.

    It's also not unusual for an abuse victim, whether just verbal or physical too, to tell others. We just finished a case where the wife told several people of mental abuse, yet the abuser claimed all those people were lying and he was really a good guy. Course, the wife was permanently silenced, so she was not able to give her first hand statement as to the truth of the matter.

    Interesting that several people, between LE (said no evidence of mental problems), friends, neighbors, family of the victim, all say Gail was not mentally unstable yet we're taking the husband's word for it, she was. Of course she was, NOT! imho..............He wants you to believe she was unstable and she is missing because she wants to be gone. It's NOT his fault. Move along, nothing to see here, {poof!} MISSING WITHOUT A TRACE, never to be seen again.

    IMHO, LE SHOULD be investigating this as a crime. For although there's no {proof!} there's been foul play here, there's ALSO circumstantial {proof} that there has been foul play and Gail isn't missing because she wants to be.

    JMHO
    fran


    PS...............like they say, "You never know what goes on behind closed doors."



    http://verbalabusejournals.com/verba...azy-making.php
    Verbal Abuse Journal

    Abusers accomplish crazy-making in a variety of ways. For example, s/he may say one thing and then swearing they said the opposite or didn't say it at all, "talk the talk" but not walk the walk, claim that you are crazy, unbalanced, forgetful, out to get them, etc.



    http://www.justicewomen.com/help_family_law.html
    Beware Family Court:What Victims and Advocates Should Know

    B. In Family Court an Abuser can Launch Free Ranging Counterattacks against the Victim.
    In Criminal Court, Counterattacks by the Abuser Are Forbidden or Tightly Restricted.


    It's at that next court date that the abuser so often comes into court fully armed not only to shoot down her accusations, but also to launch his own set of unrestricted accusations against the victim. True or untrue, he piles it on: 'she uses drugs', 'hits the kids', 'neglects the kids', 'drives drunk', 'is crazy', 'won't get a job.' 'works all the time,' 'is mentally ill', "spends the rent money," and whatever other rant comes into his abusive head.




    http://www.naffoundation.org/Gaslighting.htm
    First stage: abuser-victim gaslighting attempts

    They convince the victims that nobody will believe what the victims say about the abusers (often, this is true).

    They convince the victims that their intuition and judgment are faulty.

    They enlist help from gullible or abusive family members, neighbors, religious peers, and more to convince the victims that they are crazy, delusional and/or mentally ill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Columbo View Post
    bolded by me.

    Was ADT at their home? Where did this info come from? Thanks!

    Columbo
    It came from me....ADT was there when everyone was gathering at Walmart on Monday.
    I've never noticed an alarm before, but they may have one. Also...they park on the driveway....no idea what's in the garage or why they don't use it for their cars

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    Quote Originally Posted by jd3223 View Post
    I've been thinking a lot about ways to find the jeep. I have Sirius satellite radio in my car. We pay extra for something called Sirius Travel Link. It is an extra feature that can show me weather, accidents along a route I have entered, etc. It also shows me the nearest intersection. I wonder if Sirius also has a way to access that information whether or not she had a subscription. We let our subscription lapse and all I had to do to reconnect it was contact Sirius, make sure my car was not in the garage at a certain time, and they sent the signal to the car. I wonder if Sirius could send a signal to locate the car?

    Another thing I have found is that in 2010 the Jeep Rubicon came with the option of UConnect phone and/or Web. It allows you to do the bluetooth calls if she paired her phone with it AND it makes your car a mobile hotspot. Sooo, we don't know if she upgraded to this option. We need to find out because if she did have it, there is a FindMyCar App.

    I hadn't thought of the blue tooth in the car thing until someone else mentioned it a few posts back. They also said it's POSSIBLE that's why the phone pinged the day of 5/02, because the phone was in the car as it changed towers, or something like that.

    Anyway, that's a good thought. I wish we knew what her cell phone said on where the phone was from 12:15 p.m. 4/30 to say, 6 p.m. 5/02.

    Where was Gail AND Matt and the kids, between 4/30 to 5/02?

    Where is Gail?

    JMHO
    fran

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  35. #543
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    Quote Originally Posted by fran View Post
    Just FWIW, on this 'Gail was dillusional' thing. This is a common ploy an abuser will use. Turn the tide on the victim. IF all else fails, they say "See what you made me do."

    Obviously Gail found out about the other woman as revealed by the neighbor. As there had been recent dv 911 calls answered to the home, it appears to be a matter of a spouse finding out their spouse cheated and trying to deal with the betrayal. I'm am pretty confident there were many more discussions, and most likely angry discussions about his betrayal. It's not beyond believing there were even personal threats and intimidation to get the discussion off the guilty party (meaning the cheater).

    I'm not saying the husband did anything, but he COULD have threatened to , which was why Gail was scared and concerned for her safety. She MAY have been followed as backed up by the neighbor who said she DID see a strange car in the neighborhood several times at the time Gail said she was being 'followed.' We don't know the true answer except speculation, at this time.

    It's also not unusual for an abuse victim, whether just verbal or physical too, to tell others. We just finished a case where the wife told several people of mental abuse, yet the abuser claimed all those people were lying and he was really a good guy. Course, the wife was permanently silenced, so she was not able to give her first hand statement as to the truth of the matter.

    Interesting that several people, between LE (said no evidence of mental problems), friends, neighbors, family of the victim, all say Gail was not mentally unstable yet we're taking the husband's word for it, she was. Of course she was, NOT! imho..............He wants you to believe she was unstable and she is missing because she wants to be gone. It's NOT his fault. Move along, nothing to see here, {poof!} MISSING WITHOUT A TRACE, never to be seen again.

    IMHO, LE SHOULD be investigating this as a crime. For although there's no {proof!} there's been foul play here, there's ALSO circumstantial {proof} that there has been foul play and Gail isn't missing because she wants to be.

    JMHO
    fran


    PS...............like they say, "You never know what goes on behind closed doors."



    http://verbalabusejournals.com/verba...azy-making.php
    Verbal Abuse Journal

    Abusers accomplish crazy-making in a variety of ways. For example, s/he may say one thing and then swearing they said the opposite or didn't say it at all, "talk the talk" but not walk the walk, claim that you are crazy, unbalanced, forgetful, out to get them, etc.



    http://www.justicewomen.com/help_family_law.html
    Beware Family Court:What Victims and Advocates Should Know

    B. In Family Court an Abuser can Launch Free Ranging Counterattacks against the Victim.
    In Criminal Court, Counterattacks by the Abuser Are Forbidden or Tightly Restricted.


    It's at that next court date that the abuser so often comes into court fully armed not only to shoot down her accusations, but also to launch his own set of unrestricted accusations against the victim. True or untrue, he piles it on: 'she uses drugs', 'hits the kids', 'neglects the kids', 'drives drunk', 'is crazy', 'won't get a job.' 'works all the time,' 'is mentally ill', "spends the rent money," and whatever other rant comes into his abusive head.




    http://www.naffoundation.org/Gaslighting.htm
    First stage: abuser-victim gaslighting attempts

    They convince the victims that nobody will believe what the victims say about the abusers (often, this is true).

    They convince the victims that their intuition and judgment are faulty.

    They enlist help from gullible or abusive family members, neighbors, religious peers, and more to convince the victims that they are crazy, delusional and/or mentally ill.
    In the section about "gaslighting" one of the things the abuser does is threaten to destroy the victim's belongings, should the victim attempt to leave. Not that this is necessarily what is happening here, but we do have Gail distributing some of her belongings to neighbors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Columbo View Post
    In the section about "gaslighting" one of the things the abuser does is threaten to destroy the victim's belongings, should the victim attempt to leave. Not that this is necessarily what is happening here, but we do have Gail distributing some of her belongings to neighbors.
    Now, understand, I am NOT saying the husband in this case is abusive, he may not be. Or may not have been until his wife found out about the alleged affair. But these things go in patterns. It's an MO, if you will.

    Another thing the abuser uses against the spouse, is the 'kids.' We've seen this over and over and over in previous cases. Because abusers know it CAN force the victim to stay, and, or, they are one of their possessions. Therefore, that MAY BE why Gail returned the children and then fled. She knew if she left the kids he MAY leave her alone. She may have not felt danger for the kids in his hands, but knew SHE felt danger and wanted to distance herself.

    Again, I am NOT saying this happened here, but it is a possibility that should be looked at by LE.

    No stone should be unturned, IMHO. No clues anywhere else, so the last place she was before she disappeared was the home. Step 1.

    JMHO
    fran

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    Quote Originally Posted by kikidee View Post
    thank you for that. I have said before, i will be floored if MP really is involved in this in a sinister way, even though I only have met him a few times. I have always liked him, from the time I met him. I too think he is in a tough spot. I DO think there is more he could be doing, and should be doing, like helping with the searches, or posting more flyers, or more televised heart-felt pleas, but that is only MOO, and there may be reasons unbeknownst to us as to WHY he is not. And maybe too much time had past in their marriage where there was any real love involved, I don't know. But she still is the mother of his children, that alone should induce a bit more outward-appearing compassion, if only for their sakes.

    I pray for all of them.
    In my experience, there are always signs beforehand which point to the propensity for premeditated violence - i.e. inappropriate comments @ inappropriate times, preoccupation w/outward appearances, controlling behaviors, inappropriate flares of anger @ unusual times, etc... But, the thing is, you have to be around the person in question enough to see/recognize them. Unfortunately, meeting a person on a couple of ocaissions in a social situation(s) would not give someone the opportunity to make an accurate assessment.

    In my opinion, if Matt did something heinous to Gail, there would be certain personality traits which would point in that direction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fedfan4life View Post
    In my experience, there are always signs beforehand which point to the propensity for premeditated violence - i.e. inappropriate comments @ inappropriate times, preoccupation w/outward appearances, controlling behaviors, inappropriate flares of anger @ unusual times, etc... But, the thing is, you have to be around the person in question enough to see/recognize them. Unfortunately, meeting a person on a couple of ocaissions in a social situation(s) would not give someone the opportunity to make an accurate assessment.

    In my opinion, if Matt did something heinous to Gail, there would be certain personality traits which would point in that direction.
    bolded by me.

    That is so right--Matt is acting hinky in a lot of ways now, but no one has stepped forward to say, "hmmm...you know I always got a weird vibe from him" or anything to that effect. Of course, people could be thinking this and not stepping forward! Several posters have said they'd be floored if he had done anything sinister. So ?????? the mystery continues.

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  43. #547
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    Quote Originally Posted by fran View Post
    Now, understand, I am NOT saying the husband in this case is abusive, he may not be. Or may not have been until his wife found out about the alleged affair. But these things go in patterns. It's an MO, if you will.

    Another thing the abuser uses against the spouse, is the 'kids.' We've seen this over and over and over in previous cases. Because abusers know it CAN force the victim to stay, and, or, they are one of their possessions. Therefore, that MAY BE why Gail returned the children and then fled. She knew if she left the kids he MAY leave her alone. She may have not felt danger for the kids in his hands, but knew SHE felt danger and wanted to distance herself.

    Again, I am NOT saying this happened here, but it is a possibility that should be looked at by LE.

    No stone should be unturned, IMHO. No clues anywhere else, so the last place she was before she disappeared was the home. Step 1.

    JMHO
    fran
    bolded by me.

    fran, I do understand you aren't saying there was any abuse.

    Re the bolded: That is right, the HOUSE needs to be searched, actually both homes--and if the police had searched there, we'd know about it...unless they disguised themselves as ADT and did a search in disguise??
    Last edited by Columbo; 05-19-2011 at 11:57 AM.

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  45. #548
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThoughtFox View Post
    That might work in some places, but not with the Tennessee or Alabama State Patrols. Seriously, she would know that.

    Plus as many have stated here, Signal Mountain is known as a speed trap where they pull people over for any little thing. Not having a DL on you is just going to get someone a large fine and possibly a day in traffic court.

    I can see no reason why a woman who just drove home four hours from Alabama would dump her DL and her purse and then drive away. This strikes me as a classic case of someone not leaving on their own, and maybe whoever left the stuff behind didn't think about how it would look to LE. JMOO

    It's a bit like the Hailey Dunn case in which we are supposed to believe that young teenage girl would leave behind not only her purse and her brand new iPod, but her coat and shoes on a cold day in winter. It makes no sense.
    I spent a night in jail over it. That's the SMPD for you.

  46. #549
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janeumayer View Post
    OK, Please don't throw rocks at me but another reason someone would leave personal items with other people would be because they are contemplating suicide? JMOO MOO
    i'm jumping off your post I snipped, jane.......

    the cops were at her house 2 weeks in a row and no arrests.

    i think gail may have originally planned on leaving matt and the fact that he was allowed by the officer to stay at their house may have tipped her over the edge. she may have thought terrible thoughts and may have followed through with them.

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  48. #550
    http://underwatercriminalrecovery.com/default.aspx not sure how much it would cost to have them search a mile of river with radar or metal detection (they have a giant boat towed metal detector?), but if I was family I think I would ask...

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