1110 users online (206 members and 904 guests)  


Websleuths News


Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 94
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Amongst the beautiful Washington Islands
    Posts
    2,492

    Who thinks Patsy is a normal mom and why?

    Who can defend Patsy? Who thinks she has acted reasonably under the circumstances? Who feels like defending her against the criticisms...even if it's just a "role play" or devils advocate...if you think Patsy is guilty, can you play the other side of your doubts and confront your own conclusions?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,389
    How do you define "normal"? Do you mean "typical"?

    We all bring our own personalities, standards and experiences into motherhood. We're all different. I censored tv programmes when my kids were small and I imposed stricter curfews on my kids than their friends' parents did. I don't think that makes me a better parent. There are other areas where I think I fall down as a parent. I can't "come down" to a child's level very naturally and little children don't warm to me. I get on much better with teenagers (which is just as well since I spend the vast majority of my time working with them!).
    This is only my opinion

    Let the focus be on Madeleine




    Together we can make a difference





    Alert Viewer in Scotland

    Member of Websleuths since April 2000

  3. #3
    WasUpGuest
    Quote Originally Posted by Fran Bancroft
    Who can defend Patsy? Who thinks she has acted reasonably under the circumstances? Who feels like defending her against the criticisms...even if it's just a "role play" or devils advocate...if you think Patsy is guilty, can you play the other side of your doubts and confront your own conclusions?
    I see what you are saying Fran Bancroft - yet, I ditto what Jayelles says on the mark!

    In all honesty, regarding Patsy's actions and words, and the ransom note, no I can't role play the other side of my doubts. The entire situation was "questionable" from day one and this is something that's never left the rational side of my doubts.

    Sorry I couldn't expand anymore on your thoughts Fran - even though I've tried many times over in the past when questions like this would arise, I kept coming back to the family, Patsy, John and Burke. The times I rule out Burke, others make note of certain situations, and then I rule him back in.
    The only person I've never been able to rule out is PATSY.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    under the bridge
    Posts
    101
    Of course Patsy was a normal mother and her reaction that morning was exactly what a normal mother would do.

    Just to name a few things:

    She called for the police and she called most of her friends, wouldn't you?

    She never woke Burke up to ask him if he had heard anything, wouldn't you let your 9 yr old child continue to sleep?

    She never once (that we heard about) checked through the house or went to the door to check outside, afterall, she did have the ransom note.

    She never questioned why the "kidnappers" did not call at 10:00. Afterall, they were probably busy doing something else.



    Thank god I'm abnormal.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    2,384
    Quote Originally Posted by WasUp
    I kept coming back to the family, Patsy, John and Burke. The times I rule out Burke, others make note of certain situations, and then I rule him back in.
    The only person I've never been able to rule out is PATSY.

    Bravo!



    I cant speak for Patsy's parenting before the murder (although I do frown upon pageants ) but after the murder her behavior differes from what Ive seen of (non guilty) mothers of murdered/missing(?) and their behavior and what I myself would do..............thats my
    The saints are the sinners who keep trying...

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    3,053
    Quote Originally Posted by Fran Bancroft
    Who can defend Patsy? Who thinks she has acted reasonably under the circumstances? Who feels like defending her against the criticisms...?
    Fran, I can.

    Patsy Ramsey, along with John, Burke, the rest of the Ramsey family, the district attorney, the court, and other selected Boulder officials, are all in the same boat. They all know who killed JonBenet, but they can't tell. They have to continually lie and make up stories to hide the truth.

    IMO the grand jury solved the killing of JonBenet in 1999, very young children (under 10) were involved, and the Colorado Children's Code and the court gag order prevents them from speaking out under penalty of criminal prosecution, loss of their jobs, and other unwanted horrors happening to them.

    JMO

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    514
    Do you mean 'normal' as in mentally healthy? Or do you mean 'typical' as in a typical mom?
    I think Patsy was basically a social-climbing snob. I think this attitude came directly from her snobbish mother Nedra. (You know, the one who can't mention simply that Burke had a computer laptop, but had to add that it was "the best that money could buy." And that kind of b.s.)
    I think Patsy was loving and kind to those in HER social circle and who could do something for her or her family - but that she thought she was better.
    I think she indulged her children (which is a form of child abuse by the way). JonBenet was said by Nedra to be "incorrigible" and housekeepers (who see the REAL sides of people) said that the kids and especially JonBenet were "bratty." This is not their fault. At those young ages it is a clear reflection on their upbringing and the "messages" sent to them by their mother and father.
    I think Patsy loved her children dearly. But I think she had a real problem with what is called "enmeshment" in psychology. She had trouble knowing where she left off and her children - particularly JonBenet - began. Boundaries. "Like Mother, Like Daughter" she titled a whole chapter in her book. She lived her life and dreams THROUGH JonBenet. This set up a very dangerous potential not only for disappointment but more serious problems.
    Patsy was extreme and over the top in anything she did. This can be a real asset and can also be a sickness. Deep seated need that nothing is ever "good enough" (like her redecorating over and over, christmas tree in EVERY room, spending $30,000 on a luncheon for John, ... and ... the over the top ransom note).
    I think she felt driven to have the best, look the best, and therefore be known as the best - or "better" than others. This is what is behind the competition in her beauty pageant life and that of the one she thrust her tiny daughter into when just in pre-school. The goal was not "to have fun" - the goal was to groom her to become Miss America.
    I think Patsy was not a "typical" mother by any means. How can you say that when she lived in a 6,800 sq ft. mansion and bought her daughter an antique rocking chair that cost "thousands of dollars?"
    But I think she was fairly "normal" in the circles she ran in - to an extent.
    I think she turned people off with her taking charge of things all the time like at the kids' school. At first they appreciated it - but later when it became obvoius that her efforts were more dramatic or involved than necessary - it became an annoyance.

    I think Patsy loved her children, her husband and her friends the best way she knew how. She was, as we all are to a great extent, a product of HER upbringing.
    This post is my opinion.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Amongst the beautiful Washington Islands
    Posts
    2,492
    Well, I was hoping to see anyone who "defends" Patsy or in the case of one who doesn't, a devil advocates position. I personally think that when we challenge our own ideas, we broaden our perspectives.

    Unfortunately, this seems to be another Patsy bashing thread, and has thus far failed the intention of broadening one's perspective.

    Re: "normal" you interpret.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    230
    K777angel- I think you summed up Patsy quite well. I think she was exactly that type of person. But I still don't think that type of person necessarily killed her child. Would she cover up for her other child? I think she would. But I have a lot of doubts about their son being responsible as well. I don't see the evidence there pointing to Burke having done this. I have a real hard time being convinced with the ransom note too. If I didn't see so many similarities in other handwritings as well, I may be convinced. I do not see any similarities other than things that can be similar in many handwritings, mine included.

    Great assessment! I think you are right on the mark on this one.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    230
    Quote Originally Posted by Fran Bancroft
    Well, I was hoping to see anyone who "defends" Patsy or in the case of one who doesn't, a devil advocates position. I personally think that when we challenge our own ideas, we broaden our perspectives.

    Unfortunately, this seems to be another Patsy bashing thread, and has thus far failed the intention of broadening one's perspective.

    Re: "normal" you interpret.
    I hope you don't take my view to be bashing Patsy. I am not. I think K777angel had a very accurate assessment of her. I don't think that makes Patsy a bad person. She loved her kids and I don't think for a minute she had anything at all to do with this. I do think she was a bit of a snob. I have a sister who is the same way. I love her dearly but she is a bit over the top and it is all about being one up on everyone else and showy. Some people are just that way. I, however, don't put importance in material things as my sister does and she may look down on me or others who don't see things her way, but that is her purogative. I know one day she will see how absolutely ridiculous and what a real waste of time it was to be that way, as I suspect Patsy learned the hard way.

    So, yes I think Patsy was a good mother in the sense that her children knew they were loved, but as for parenting skills that teach children to know the real values in life, maybe not such a good mother. But, being that I don't know her personally it is really hard to say. This is just an observation from how things look on this side of the fence.


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    226
    Quote Originally Posted by Fran Bancroft
    Well, I was hoping to see anyone who "defends" Patsy or in the case of one who doesn't, a devil advocates position. I personally think that when we challenge our own ideas, we broaden our perspectives.

    Unfortunately, this seems to be another Patsy bashing thread, and has thus far failed the intention of broadening one's perspective.

    Re: "normal" you interpret.

    From my perspective, Patsy did not kill JonBenet.


    I think Patsy was indeed a good mother. Whats wrong with a mother entering her daughter in Beauty and modeling Pagents? She also entered for the talent.

    Patsy kept JonBenet clean and did every thing to make her happy. JB had a nice place to sleep, plenty of food to eat. A good life. Her grandparents loved and gave her lots of attention. Her Dad traveled alot but, always called at night to check on his family and express love. She traveled and went to plays in New York.

    If Patsy were a wefare mother would the press made this a media Circus? No way, it would have been on the nightly news one night, and maybe not then, and be unheard of til the sentencing.

    The reason for the Patsy bashing is because this is a RDI forum. Here most get bashed for having a non-Ramsey opinion.

    Thanks,
    Tressa

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    maryland
    Posts
    1,832
    She appears to have parented quite well, allowing for socializing and sports times for her kids, a truly selfish parent makes themselves unavailable, she knew ,too ,to earn those "parent points" that keep our kids from being "the invisible students". She seemed a little "ditzy", but that could have been the visible effects of post murder drugs. In nothing I've heard or read, have I seen anything that would take Patsy outside of the set of normal. I am an aquarian and can change with the wind, so I think I would have enjoyed her as a friend, I may have bought myself one of those studding guns and glittered up my jeans, I do so hate birkenstocks (they make me think I'm growing toe hairs..)that a little pair of studded denim heels would have worked great for me, even in Boulder.
    My child ,being far more gorgeous, may have taken some pressure off of Jonbenet,however I doubt we would have been competing, we went for geography bees and such. I'm not above pageants, my family has had a few contenders, a current one just missed Miss Maryland, and the money she logged in over the years PAID for her college,(she earned her degree in May 2003!) Would I have ever let my child spend the night in that house? NO!
    That is where we differ, I do not like open living, where other people have access to my children, no priests, no gardeners, no one unless I am "right there", not even distanced by the front yard. Patsy didn't kill her child, no Ramsey did, I see the killer was allowed access, clearly too many had it!
    IMO

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    226
    [QUOTE=twizzler333

    So, yes I think Patsy was a good mother in the sense that her children knew they were loved, but as for parenting skills that teach children to know the real values in life, maybe not such a good mother. But, being that I don't know her personally it is really hard to say. This is just an observation from how things look on this side of the fence.[/QUOTE]


    We must also understand Patsy had Stage 4 cancer during the early formative
    Years. Nedra stayed with the children thru most of the illness.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Amongst the beautiful Washington Islands
    Posts
    2,492
    I think we're getting on track more...

    I so far, find no fault with Patsy. I would admit that "access" should be limited, "wisely" however, one can't take that to mean that Patsy is "faulted".

    I don't buy in to the mother being "enmeshed". I would argue that she was involved, loving, concerned and made personal sacrifices to benefit her talented daughter.

    I would suggest that someone who knew the family, was jealous and envious was also sexually hung up on JB and that this person is the guilty one.

    I don't think the pineapple was related to the killer or Patsy in anyway. I think it is something that has been made too much of...it's as simple as this was something JB was hungry for, liked, and ate.

    I would caution, that in LE efforts to "fish" many public statements were made, not necessarily "factual" but were made to lure the killer-whom they presumed to be Patsy...so these statements were directed at Patsy. If LE's theory was correct, then long ago, they would have gotten Patsy.

    So, back to the point here...who can defend the positions for Patsy for which she has been attacked? What is the most compelling attack against Patsy that you know-now, play the other side...

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    709
    I cannot defend Patsy because of the recorded police interviews were she was so mouthy and irritable – I oddly do not have a lot of sympathy. Having said such an insensitive thing please indulge me as something has bothered me all along.
    If confronted by the fact that my daughter has been kidnapped one of my first actions would be to get an expensive, burly team of privately trained bodyguards up stairs to my other child’s room. Sending my private plane to pick them up if necessary. If he were mine Burke would not have made a move without an armed security guard beside him AND he would not leave my home unless it was for another area heavily secured by my new security team.
    Please correct me if I’m wrong but Patsy showed no fear for Burke’s safety. Why?

Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 ... LastLast