1048 users online (209 members and 839 guests)  


Websleuths News


Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 53
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Laguna Beach, CA
    Posts
    8,862

    Parents keep child's gender secret

    http://www.parentcentral.ca/parent/b...-gender-secret

    The neighbours know Witterick and her husband, David Stocker, are raising a genderless baby. But they don’t pretend to understand it.

    While there’s nothing ambiguous about Storm’s genitalia, they aren’t telling anyone whether their third child is a boy or a girl.

    The only people who know are Storm’s brothers, Jazz, 5, and Kio, 2, a close family friend and the two midwives who helped deliver the baby in a birthing pool at their Toronto home on New Year’s Day.

    “When the baby comes out, even the people who love you the most and know you so intimately, the first question they ask is, ‘Is it a girl or a boy?’” says Witterick, bouncing Storm, dressed in a red-fleece jumper, on her lap at the kitchen table.

    “If you really want to get to know someone, you don’t ask what’s between their legs,” says Stocker.
    much much more at the link

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Laguna Beach, CA
    Posts
    8,862
    I get wanting to not have your child pegged into a specific role....but I don't get making your child(ren) into a social experiment.

    I think it's setting up all the kids for the parents identity issues.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    4,983
    Sounds like the parents have, ahem, problems to me.

    My opinion only

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    46,808
    They are just creating problems for this child where there wouldn't be any normally. imoo
    “Every day that they don’t find something is good for me.“ Billie Dunn

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    36,310
    I have spent the last two minutes staring at this little white box trying to express my thoughts on this one.

    I cannot even form the thought I am having.

    I totally get parenting in such a way as to not try to assign gender roles to their child.

    This is not that. This is more than sort of odd to me. This going to backfire and that poor kid is gonna be the one that pays.
    Last edited by tlcya; 05-23-2011 at 07:47 PM.
    Websleuths now on Facebook

    Welcome to all new members. Thank you for joining the conversation. Please take a moment to become familiar with the TOS and rules, etiquette and information.

    mni wiconi - Lakota for Water is Life.

  6. #6
    Lexiintoronto's Avatar
    Lexiintoronto is online now Behind every successful man is a woman rolling her eyes.
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    2,098
    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie09 View Post
    I hope that their experiment turns out well. I sort of understand their point, but they seem to be taking it to the oposite extreme by being too ridgid. My view is if little Louis wants to wear pink and carry a barbie doll, let him and be happy. Of course we expect certain behaviours depending on gender, certain traits are hard-wired depending on the child's sex.

    My friend's sister is a psychiatrist, and she allowed her children to make their own decisions as soon as they were able to voice their opinion. One of the child's decisions at 6 year's old was that she didn't want her uncle (my friend) and his family over for Christmas (she didn't really have an opinion as to why she didn't want them there, she just didn't). The mother complied and my friend was crushed. The 6 year-old kicked and screamed all Christmas because 'no one came for Christmas'.

    The mother let the child navigate their own decisions to the point that school authorities had to step in. Guess who turned out inable to follow rules in school?

    The sister apparently is regretting her decision and the young adult is in therapy to help with impulse control, respecting authority and just the basics on how to compromise.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    2,910
    lol, for lack of a better word, this idea sounds ridiculously stupid and will most likely not last past the age of 2 or 3, but certainly not past pre-k or kindergarten.


    "Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler".

    Albert Einstein


    “The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated”.

    Mahatma Gandhi

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    19,247
    I read another article about parents with similar ideas and they took it a bit further. They got even mad at a nurse who referred to their baby as whichever sex it was. They didn't call themselves mom and dad but had chosen gender neutral animal names for that role. IMO it is a great idea to be more supportive of behaviors that transcend the traditional gender roles but I'm not sure about the secretiveness. It could work against the general purpose and instead of making it irrelevant it could make a HUGE deal for everyone about what's between his/her legs. I mean, look at the neighbor mentioned in the story. She's not interested in anything else about the baby, apparently. That's probably the only thing many people ever think about when meeting that baby. Is it a boy? Is it a girl? Does it exhibit girly behaviors? Boyish behaviors? Getting hung up on not knowing the sex could be an obstacle in getting to know the child's personality.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    46,808
    By 'not knowing' the gender it is like putting a huge question mark in NEON LIGHTS over the kids genital area. It will be all people will be thinking about in their interactions just because it is forbidden.
    It is like my friend's mom, when we were little kids. The mom put a huge padlock on the downstairs pantry and locked away all of the snacks and sweets. None of the family were over weight , not at that time anyway. She just wanted to save money she said. By the time my friend was in high school she was bulemic. The thought of hoarding food and gorging herself was always on her mind.
    Anytime you try and keep a secret or try and deny anything, it becomes bigger and bigger and takes on a life of it's own.
    “Every day that they don’t find something is good for me.“ Billie Dunn

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    19,247
    Another thing I'm a little worried about is making little children keep secrets. I don't know about the baby's little brothers but my children can't keep secrets, they always inevitably blurt it out if they've been told not to say something. It's like it builds pressure and out it comes, and they would probably not even have been interested in talking about some of the things if they hadn't been told not to. There could be some feelings of guilt for the children if they accidentally let it slip even though the parents said not to.

    Another aspect of making children keep secrets is that the secret thing may develop an aura of awed shame. Whatever the baby's genital equipment is may become That Thing Which Cannot Be Named and the children may learn to associate being a boy or being a girl as something to be ashamed of and to be hidden away.


  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    46,808
    Quote Originally Posted by Donjeta View Post
    Another thing I'm a little worried about is making little children keep secrets. I don't know about the baby's little brothers but my children can't keep secrets, they always inevitably blurt it out if they've been told not to say something. It's like it builds pressure and out it comes, and they would probably not even have been interested in talking about some of the things if they hadn't been told not to. There could be some feelings of guilt for the children if they accidentally let it slip even though the parents said not to.

    Another aspect of making children keep secrets is that the secret thing may develop an aura of awed shame. Whatever the baby's genital equipment is may become That Thing Which Cannot Be Named and the children may learn to associate being a boy or being a girl as something to be ashamed of and to be hidden away.
    THANK YOU. That was the essence of what I was trying to say in the above post, but you said it much clearer. Having the older sibs keep the 'secret' can become shameful and toxic. It creates tension which builds a life of it's own. This whole thing is bothering me because it is an 'experiment' being done on a living child. And it may well affect his/her sexual identity for yrs to come. imoo
    “Every day that they don’t find something is good for me.“ Billie Dunn

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    19,247
    Quote Originally Posted by katydid23 View Post
    THANK YOU. That was the essence of what I was trying to say in the above post, but you said it much clearer. Having the older sibs keep the 'secret' can become shameful and toxic. It creates tension which builds a life of it's own. This whole thing is bothering me because it is an 'experiment' being done on a living child. And it may well affect his/her sexual identity for yrs to come. imoo
    Possibly the siblings as well, IMO.

    Supposing the new baby is a boy:
    The older boys are, well, boys. Then a new baby comes along and it's a huge secret that it's a boy. It Cannot Be Talked About. The children are too little to understand gender neutral parenting so they're going to wonder why. Is it wrong for the baby to be a boy? My parents don't want to talk about it. But hey, I'm a boy. Is it wrong for me to be a boy?

    Supposing the new baby is a girl:
    The older boys are allowed to be boys. They're referred to as "he", "boys", "brothers". Then a new sibling comes along and it's a girl. Suddenly it's a huge secret and she may not be referred to as "she" without brackets, "girl" or "sister". Its girlhood has to be concealed. It is very easy for the boys to conclude that it's wrong to be a girl, that girls are somehow inferior and if you're a girl it's something you need to keep a very low profile about. How is that going to influence their relationships with girls later?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Laguna Beach, CA
    Posts
    8,862
    I don't buy into gender neutral human beings. The more I think about this, the angrier it makes me.

    We can surgically alter ourselves to be something different than created, but the very essence of our DNA will always betray any secret we try to keep.

    I think realistically and in a healthy manner they could concentrate less on whatever roles are pre-supposed for the kids, and instead celebrate that "our children are healthy and get to choose to be whatever they wish to be without us deciding for them."

    I am in total agreement with what I think is not expressed well in this article, that we lock step our kids into herd mentality sometimes unwittingly - I'm even ok with unschooling to some degree - but I think the potential is there for great damage to these kids because they will be so different there is no way to form relationships same sex or opposite sex because simple boundaries and social norms are ignored. And seriously, do you want to explain to a four year old what gender neutral means? I don't - I want my daughter to love everything that being a girl has to offer, and appreciate that a boy is different and wonderful and both are necessary in our world!

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    19,247
    Yes, with the secrecy thing there seems to be very little room for the children being proud of being boys and girls, which they are.

    I admire the courage and the realization that children don't benefit from being stuck in a too small box based on their gender but eliminating gender altogether seems unfeasible in practice. We should work on finding flexible ways for children to express their own personality as a boy/girl and expand the idea of what a boy/girl can do because the majority of children will continue to be born as either in the future.


    “If you really want to get to know someone, you don’t ask what’s between their legs,” says Stocker.
    This premise doesn't really work with me because usually it's not necessary to ask, we just know, and IMO it doesn't prevent most people from wanting to know at least some other people well.

    If I want to really get to know someone why would I want to be ignorant of something that could mean a lot for the person's identity? Just look at all the people who want to change their sex and then say it's not important at all...

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Laguna Beach, CA
    Posts
    8,862
    Quote Originally Posted by Donjeta View Post
    Yes, with the secrecy thing there seems to be very little room for the children being proud of being boys and girls, which they are.

    I admire the courage and the realization that children don't benefit from being stuck in a too small box based on their gender but eliminating gender altogether seems unfeasible in practice. We should work on finding flexible ways for children to express their own personality as a boy/girl and expand the idea of what a boy/girl can do because the majority of children will continue to be born as either in the future.




    This premise doesn't really work with me because usually it's not necessary to ask, we just know, and IMO it doesn't prevent most people from wanting to know at least some other people well.

    If I want to really get to know someone why would I want to be ignorant of something that could mean a lot for the person's identity? Just look at all the people who want to change their sex and then say it's not important at all...
    I'm still giggling at the simplicity and truthfulness of this statement.

    Yes, gender matters, not for boxing in purposes but who we are.

Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 ... LastLast


Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 70
    Last Post: 12-13-2015, 04:57 PM
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-26-2011, 10:26 AM
  3. Mel Gibson's Secret Love Child
    By Floh in forum Celebrity and Entertainment News
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 12-24-2006, 12:21 AM