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  1. #46
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    173
    Quote Originally Posted by robin55 View Post
    i think casey sounds more like diane downs story.Diane downs also calmed sex abuse but after few years clamed it was a lie about her father
    exactly. in fact psychologists apparently diagnosed her as narcissistic, including antisocial personality disorders. sounds pretty familiar imo.

    also worth mentioning: while it's true that far too many fall victims to sexual child abuse, i think the frequency of incest, especially paternal incest, is often overstated (or over-sensationalized). according to available stats, 15%-25% of u.s. females are sexually abused before 18 years of age. however, family members make up only 30% of the sexual abusers while acquaintances and strangers make up the 70% balance.

    so assuming the high end of women that are sexually abused before age 18 (25% as opposed to 15%), this would mean that 7.5% are abused by family members. this percentage drops even lower when one considers that siblings, cousins, uncles, etc. are included in the family member total of 30%. in short, the percentage of females under the age of 18 that are sexually abused by their fathers is relatively low. most likely less than 5%. is kc one of the 5%? or is she a diane downs, a narcissistic, antisocial liar? i'm guessing the latter...

  2. #47
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    Texas
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    1,806
    I don't think they got the idea from that case but they came up with "whatever" they could possibly say to get Casey off the hook. They were just reaching for anything.

  3. #48
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
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    321
    Regarding the Menendez brothers (a case I have studied), one thing I will say is that their father was a monster. Their mother was an emotionally unstable, and dependent personality who refused to divorce her philandering, controlling husband.

    Of course, it doesn't warrant murder, but I believe this case is more complex than it appears on the surface.

    For starters, you have to look at Jose's background. He was the only son; his mother spoiled him tremendously and refused to discipline him. From an early age he was a bully, biting his playmates when he was younger and punching them when he was older. He grew up believing that he was better than everyone else and carried this into adulthood. While he worked hard to rise up in the ranks, he was very much disliked by many for his ruthless drive for success and he expected his sons to be just like him. Mary Louise, known as Kitty, Jose's wife and mother of their two sons, frequently witnessed her father beating her mother as a child and after her parents' divorce her mother became a withdrawn alcoholic who became dependent on her children to take care of her. She was distant and moody, and Kitty, the youngest child, particularly felt neglected and unloved. Unfortunately, both of them repeated these cycles with Lyle and Erik.

    Jose didn't view his sons as individuals, but as extensions of himself. They were not valued as human beings. Perfection was expected, both in athletics and in school. In fact, Jose taught his sons that winning and being the best was most important. Do anything, even lie, cheat or steal - just don't get caught. Kitty often did their homework for them, and Jose would intimidate their teachers into giving them higher grades. That they might have had learning disabilities was a possibility Jose refused to consider. The boys' teachers and coaches called them "the parents from hell". Even when the boys were small, Kitty was very neglectful - she'd have them wearing dirty diapers all day long and later would leave them unattended for hours at a country club in New Jersey. Lyle and Erik were very immature for their age, something that their teachers noted. They both showed signs of disturbance and behavioral issues; coaches and family members witnessed Jose hitting his sons and berating them for not winning a tennis match. Lyle wet the bed until he was 14; he slept surrounded by stuffed animals, even as a teenager. Erik was so fearful as a child that he frequently checked his closet, under his bed etc., for "monsters". Both of them had stuttering problems; Erik's was so severe that he went to a speech therapist. Kitty said more than once, in the presence of others, that "children can drive a wedge between their parents". Her friends noticed her jealousy of her sons, especially Lyle, for taking her husband away from her. More disturbing are photos taken of the boys when they were in elementary school; in the shower, and in most photos, the focus was on the lower half of their bodies.

    Here is a photo (I apologize that it isn't better quality) that is often shown in documentaries and books about the case, but is almost always cropped so that we don't see that Jose has his hand on Lyle's crotch:



    We'll never know whether they were sexually abused or not or if it was a real factor in the killings. I suspect that greed was a part of it, but not all. What can be said is that the Menendez family was NOT normal by any means and the brothers never lived in reality, but rather a world that they were born into. Sexual abuse, particularly incest, is often referred to as "psychological murder", and it's clear that they were disadvantaged at an early age, despite the wealth and privilege they experienced. No real world experience, just the unreal world where violence was tolerated and winning was everything. That they came to resent that is not surprising, but of course, they had a choice in what they did, now they must live with the consequences.

  4. #49
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
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    321
    Quote Originally Posted by LBshrink View Post
    I actually believed the Menendez brothers abuse claims. I watched that trial diligently and thought they showed expected symptoms, had a strong defense, etc. I think they rightfully were found guilty. Sexual abuse explains behavior and personality---it does not excuse criminal behavior.
    Yes, I agree. People think I'm crazy for believing the Menendez brothers' claims of abuse, but really, both of them exhibited many of the signs of sexual abuse, and physical and verbal abuse was backed up by several family members (who were not permitted to testify during the second trial). Having grown up in an abusive household, I can usually spot the characteristics of abuse victims. I do think there was some prejudice against them because they were "rich kids" and they certainly lived up to that, but given how they were raised, it's not really surprising that they thought money was important. Lyle really seems to have bottled up his emotions; his father viewed emotion as weakness, and Lyle being his oldest son and namesake (his first name is Joesph, an Americanized version of Jose) was expected to follow in his father's footsteps. I will also say that Lyle has sociopathic tendencies. He didn't seem bothered by the murders at all whereas Erik, by contrast, was haunted by nightmares, lost weight and was very distraught at times. This is what ultimately led him to confess to the crime.

    As much as I sympathize with them regarding their terrible upbringing, they chose to commit murder.
    Last edited by Noirdame79; 10-28-2016 at 10:01 PM.

  5. #50
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    321
    LIVE Entertainment, the company of which Jose Menenndez was CEO, actually distributed child pornography. Before the second trial, a letter surfaced that Erik had written when he was 15 years old to cousin. He stated that he was afraid of his father coming into his room at night and that it was "getting worse". He didn't elaborate, but it was enough to suggest that something was going on. Judge Stanley Weisberg not only didn't allow the the letter to be entered into evidence, but he also didn't allow the defense witnesses from the first trial who corroborated that Jose and Kitty mistreated their sons to testify.

    Just some more food for thought.
    Last edited by Noirdame79; 10-29-2016 at 03:26 PM.

  6. #51
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    478
    I'm enjoying your posts Noirdame79.
    Lots of info I've never heard or read before.

    Thank you.

  7. #52
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
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    321
    Quote Originally Posted by Quiet Time View Post
    I'm enjoying your posts Noirdame79.
    Lots of info I've never heard or read before.

    Thank you.
    You're welcome. I posted some more info in this thread, feel free to check it out:

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...2#post12899672

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