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  1. #361
    Quote Originally Posted by LongtimeMedic View Post
    The only point I was trying to drive home, was that the witness today told of a case where they retrieved touch dna after 20 years! We know that there was trace dna on the adhesive side at marker 17, the FBI testified to that, so yes, there was dna on the duct tape. But if we're to believe that the tape was affixed to the face so firmly as to cause suffication, there was a lot of dna there at some point, and there could have been more determined had the State contacted Dr Eikelenboom to see if they could have retrieved a full profile. Baez squeezed it in that Dr Eikelenboom had contacted the State and offered his services to them for free but they turned them down. Ashton screamed an objection, and Baez wasn't allowed to pursue that line of questioning. Wonder why Ashton would turn them down???
    Ashton objected to evidence leaving the United States. He consented to evidence being tested at an accredited lab in this county. This WAS done for the shorts and bag with Eikelenboom coming to the U.S and supervising the testing (no DNA results on either). JAC paid. They would have paid for testing the duct tape too. If the defendant had requested it.

    Ashton's objected to sending evidence out of the country and to a not accredited lab. Not to further testing of the duct tape DNA.

    Mr. Baez misspoke. That is why the objection was sustained.


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  3. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeekyGirl View Post
    I've been reading this over and over. I keep coming back to it, because I think you're right, it's the simplest explanation that takes all of the evidence into account, and is consistent with what we know about Casey's behavior. You summed it perfectly, Occam's Razor.That being said, I still tend to think the chloroform is a red herring. I'm not quite to the moral certainty stage, but I think this as close to the truth as we may ever get. I don't know that I would reach this conclusion if I were a juror, but I appreciate all the thought that went into your post, because although it gave me nightmares, it's helped to settle my mind a bit.
    I've clearly turned into a lurker but I'm consistent! I think this theory makes total sense. The only thing I can't wrap my head around are the computer searches. It just points too much to premeditation. Not only that, but I think this happening on Father's Day has some significance.


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  5. #363
    Quote Originally Posted by LongtimeMedic View Post
    Because anything the defense would offer, they would use try to use it to convict her. Baez said it was in the early morning hours... how do we know that doesn't mean anytime after 12:01am?? after all... that's the early morning hours.
    Well, I think the earliest that "early morning hours" could have been was around 7 or 7:30 or whenever Cindy had left for work ... since she is not involved in this [fabricated] DT story.


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  7. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongtimeMedic View Post
    Because anything the defense would offer, they would use try to use it to convict her. Baez said it was in the early morning hours... how do we know that doesn't mean anytime after 12:01am?? after all... that's the early morning hours.
    And he also said the afternoon, and then said NO, morning.

    We pretty much KNOW it was not in the middle of the night. Casey's cell phone and computer usage shows she was up and awake until about 4:30 am.I really doubt that Caylee could have gotten out a locked door at midnight and never be missed until the next day. Even if Casey did not check on the baby Cindy would have. And Cindy got up at 6 ish and got ready for work. She would have seen if the door was wide open.

    AND they all testified that Caylee slept in Caseys bed with her. HOW in the world would the baby go out and drown and Casey not notice she was missing?

    NOPE. They cannot try and make this accident happen while she was supposed to be sleeping with Casey, NOR can they try and make it happen before Cindy leaves for work. They need to narrow the window to 7:30 until George leaves for work.
    “Every day that they don’t find something is good for me.“ Billie Dunn


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  9. #365
    Quote Originally Posted by Jolynna View Post
    Ashton objected to evidence leaving the United States. He consented to evidence being tested at an accredited lab in this county. This WAS done for the shorts and bag with Eikelenboom coming to the U.S and supervising the testing (no DNA results on either). JAC paid. They would have paid for testing the duct tape too. If the defendant had requested it.

    Ashton's objected to sending evidence out of the country and to a not accredited lab. Not to further testing of the duct tape DNA.

    Mr. Baez misspoke. That is why the objection was sustained.
    Very interesting... is there a good link to the documents I can borrow?


  10. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongtimeMedic View Post
    Very interesting... is there a good link to the documents I can borrow?
    You can start with this thread or try the search app at the top of the page.
    If I find the hearing that denied the evidence from leaving the US ,I'll post it,also.But hey,maybe you'll find it before me!

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...uch+DNA+expert
    Always ,just my opinion





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  12. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongtimeMedic View Post
    Very interesting... is there a good link to the documents I can borrow?
    Here's another one.

    http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/...oom-dna-expert


    ETA: Note page 2 ,#4 The State agrees.............

    Order Granting In Part and Denying In Part Motion to Test For DNA Evidence 9-28-2010

    http://www.ninthcircuit.org/news/Hig...20Evidence.pdf
    __________________
    Last edited by MissJames; 06-22-2011 at 12:36 AM. Reason: ETA The Court Order
    Always ,just my opinion





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  14. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongtimeMedic View Post
    I say Caylee got up when GA and Casey were asleep and CA was gone to work, and went swimming as she so loved to do... a fatal mistake made by hundreds of toddlers every year. GA got up first and looked and and saw her missing. He then found her on the bottom of the pool... she may have been there all night. That sure won't look good for the Anthony's if you called 911 and said we found her in the pool, and we're not sure when she got in there, and she's obviously dead. That is when Casey finds out. Lee and George orchestrated the cover-up and tell Casey to just disappear from the family and 'we'll deal with mom when we have to, just don't say anything!!'
    LTM, I appreciate your trying to see all angles--(mod snip)
    The problem with this line of thought for me (as a parent) is that in this theory we have not ONE but TWO people who immediately think of protecting themselves and nothing else in the face of the death of a related, precious little one. It's just such a WEIRD reaction (not saying that it doesn't/didn't happen, but for me it's really weird.) To be THAT concerned about saving face "it won't look good" that a person would go to such lengths to hide the truth from other loved family members (Cindy and others), spend time/money fooling the national public into searching, and forgo a proper burial/memorial is very, very odd. The temporary consequences of looking bad for the accident happening are much less than the permanent consequences of hiding it. It just doesn't seem logical or emotionally what would happen if it were an accident.

    Also, someone (I can't remember who posted this--sorry!) had pointed out that with the narcissistic tendencies in the family, actually reporting the death and getting all that attention and sympathy had it been a real accident might have been more in character.
    Last edited by grandmaj; 06-22-2011 at 01:03 AM. Reason: We don't talk about other posters. Lynch Mob Mentality


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  16. #369
    Quote Originally Posted by MissJames View Post
    You can start with this thread or try the search app at the top of the page.
    If I find the hearing that denied the evidence from leaving the US ,I'll post it,also.But hey,maybe you'll find it before me!

    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...uch+DNA+expert
    Thank you... very helpful.


  17. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongtimeMedic View Post
    Why would Baez narrow the time frame down for the State? So they can use it against his client? No one shows their cards when they don't have to. As for the computer, the defense team did retain a computer expert to translate the searches the State disclosed. The defense doesn't have one retained now due to the fact they brought this up after they presented and finished their CIC last week. JMO
    My understanding is that the State said they would use the information in rebuttal to the George theory of JB's opening statment. The state would not have put the information together before hearing JB's opening. Given that all the attorneys (both sides) are working overtime and weekends, it seems logical that the State, after hearing the opening, went back and reviewed all the evidence to develop a strategy for rebuttal. They have their strategy now and they are informing JB of what will be used. This is well before JB rests. So there should be no whining here. JB now knows where he needs to tighten up his story, if he wants the jury to believe it.

    Salem


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  19. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by katydid23 View Post
    And he also said the afternoon, and then said NO, morning.

    We pretty much KNOW it was not in the middle of the night. Casey's cell phone and computer usage shows she was up and awake until about 4:30 am.I really doubt that Caylee could have gotten out a locked door at midnight and never be missed until the next day. Even if Casey did not check on the baby Cindy would have. And Cindy got up at 6 ish and got ready for work. She would have seen if the door was wide open.

    AND they all testified that Caylee slept in Caseys bed with her. HOW in the world would the baby go out and drown and Casey not notice she was missing?

    NOPE. They cannot try and make this accident happen while she was supposed to be sleeping with Casey, NOR can they try and make it happen before Cindy leaves for work. They need to narrow the window to 7:30 until George leaves for work.
    Then after they narrow that down... they have to explain the two other things.

    Why Anthony or Ricardo heard Caylee when he talked to Casey around 3pm that day. AFTER George is at work.

    WHY Casey called Cindy around 4pm to ask her to BABYSIT Caylee. AFTER George is at work.

    Casey wanted to drop Caylee off at Cindy's job, which she had done before and had no reason to think she would be refused that particular day.

    What did Casey plan to do? Deliver a body to Cindy for babysitting duty?

    There is nothing that makes sense for Caylee to be dead before that phone call to Cindy at 4pm.

    There was no reason to make that call if Caylee was dead. Cindy wasn't expecting it, there was no need to cover her @$$ yet.

    Unfortunately, if Cindy had not been so busy at work and had been able to babysit, Caylee would not have died June 16, 2008.

    I have to say that I have spent so much time trying to find a way for Casey to be innocent. I have been tortured over it. Casey is a lot like me, I don't want to believe she did this.

    No matter how hard I try, no matter how hard I look at the beautiful pictures... I can't even convince myself that she is innocent... and I WANT to believe she is. When I look at ALL the facts... they simply don't support that.


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  21. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by MsFacetious View Post
    Then after they narrow that down... they have to explain the two other things.

    Why Anthony or Ricardo heard Caylee when he talked to Casey around 3pm that day. AFTER George is at work.

    WHY Casey called Cindy around 4pm to ask her to BABYSIT Caylee. AFTER George is at work.

    Casey wanted to drop Caylee off at Cindy's job, which she had done before and had no reason to think she would be refused that particular day.

    What did Casey plan to do? Deliver a body to Cindy for babysitting duty?

    There is nothing that makes sense for Caylee to be dead before that phone call to Cindy at 4pm.

    There was no reason to make that call if Caylee was dead. Cindy wasn't expecting it, there was no need to cover her @$$ yet.

    Unfortunately, if Cindy had not been so busy at work and had been able to babysit, Caylee would not have died June 16, 2008.

    I have to say that I have spent so much time trying to find a way for Casey to be innocent. I have been tortured over it. Casey is a lot like me, I don't want to believe she did this.

    No matter how hard I try, no matter how hard I look at the beautiful pictures... I can't even convince myself that she is innocent... and I WANT to believe she is. When I look at ALL the facts... they simply don't support that.
    bbm

    - Neither Anthony or Ricardo have ever stated they heard Caylee whilst talking to Casey on 16 June - in fact nobody has ever stated that they heard Caylee while talking to Casey at any time that day, let alone after 3pm.

    - Casey told her father she and Caylee were spending the night at Zany's
    - Casey told her mother she and Caylee were spending the night at Zany's
    - If they are spending the night at Zany's and she has advised both parents where they will be this negates the need for a babysitter.
    - There is no proof and no witness testimony that says Casey called her mother to babysit or even wanted her mother to babysit that night. In fact all evidence and witness testimony supports just the opposite.

    - There is a very good reason for Casey to make that call to her mother at 4 pm that day, George had suspicions for some time Casey was not working, he had followed her in his car before, he had gone to the Sports Authority to catch her out, he even said to Cindy that he thought he saw someone in a baseball cap driving Casey's car on Narcoossee Rd sometime between 16-27 June.

    - Why did George call the house then call Casey after he had left for work that day? Did he see her car, was he checking up on her?

    - It makes perfect sense that Casey was covering her butt with her attempts to call Cindy after George had called her on 16 June as she had done in the past and would do later on when George caught her at the house on 24 June. Casey would call her mother to find out what George knew, what George was telling her mother so that she could run interference and to cover her tracks.

    No matter which way you look at it Caylee had to have been drugged, ducted tapped and stuffed in the trunk sometime after 1.14pm and when she left the house at 4.15pm. There is no other time when this could have occurred - unless she made a detour while driving to Tony's and did it on the way but I very much doubt this as it makes much more sense to do this under the cover of total privacy in your own home.


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  23. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by darnudes View Post
    bbm

    - Neither Anthony or Ricardo have ever stated they heard Caylee whilst talking to Casey on 16 June - in fact nobody has ever stated that they heard Caylee while talking to Casey at any time that day, let alone after 3pm.

    - Casey told her father she and Caylee were spending the night at Zany's
    - Casey told her mother she and Caylee were spending the night at Zany's
    - If they are spending the night at Zany's and she has advised both parents where they will be this negates the need for a babysitter.
    - There is no proof and no witness testimony that says Casey called her mother to babysit or even wanted her mother to babysit that night. In fact all evidence and witness testimony supports just the opposite.

    - There is a very good reason for Casey to make that call to her mother at 4 pm that day, George had suspicions for some time Casey was not working, he had followed her in his car before, he had gone to the Sports Authority to catch her out, he even said to Cindy that he thought he saw someone in a baseball cap driving Casey's car on Narcoossee Rd sometime between 16-27 June.

    - Why did George call the house then call Casey after he had left for work that day? Did he see her car, was he checking up on her?

    - It makes perfect sense that Casey was covering her butt with her attempts to call Cindy after George had called her on 16 June as she had done in the past and would do later on when George caught her at the house on 24 June. Casey would call her mother to find out what George knew, what George was telling her mother so that she could run interference and to cover her tracks.

    No matter which way you look at it Caylee had to have been drugged, ducted tapped and stuffed in the trunk sometime after 1.14pm and when she left the house at 4.15pm. There is no other time when this could have occurred - unless she made a detour while driving to Tony's and did it on the way but I very much doubt this as it makes much more sense to do this under the cover of total privacy in your own home.
    It was Jesse that thought he heard Caylee in the background on the 16th... IIRC he later was not sure since it was typical to hear Caylee in the background during phone calls... page 14 line 10



    http://flawebhosting.net/docs092308/jg092308.pdf

    According to this article the call was made at 2:52pm...

    At 1 p.m., Anthony made a 14-minute call to her boyfriend, Tony Lazzaro. At 1:44 p.m., she made a 36-minute call to her then-best friend, Amy Huizenga. At 2:52 p.m., there was an 11-minute call with ex-fiance Jesse Grund. All of the calls used cell towers that can be reached from her parents' home, Pipitone said.
    http://www.clickorlando.com/news/17931576/detail.html


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  25. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harmony2 View Post
    It was Jesse that thought he heard Caylee in the background on the 16th... IIRC he later was not sure since it was typical to hear Caylee in the background during phone calls... page 14 line 10



    http://flawebhosting.net/docs092308/jg092308.pdf

    According to this article the call was made at 2:52pm...



    http://www.clickorlando.com/news/17931576/detail.html
    Exactly - Jesse first thought he heard Caylee on 24 June which he later recanted and then said he couldn't be sure which day it was if it was even that week. So as it stands today, NO ONE will say or testify that they heard Caylee in the background on a call made to Casey on 16 June.


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  27. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongtimeMedic View Post
    Why would Baez narrow the time frame down for the State? So they can use it against his client? No one shows their cards when they don't have to. As for the computer, the defense team did retain a computer expert to translate the searches the State disclosed. The defense doesn't have one retained now due to the fact they brought this up after they presented and finished their CIC last week. JMO
    The DT is functioning on a very poor level by not having all of the facts of June 16th. They gave the date and approx time. They did not have to present a case in OS. They chose too. Now its time to back things up. The jury will expect it. IF the DT wants the jury to believe and accident occurred I would expect them to present a timeline of June 16th. The truth needs to hide from nothing. Who cares if the state knows the time of Caylee's drowing. If it is the truth what good is it to "hide those cards"? A factual timeline from the DT stating everything that went on on the 16th, what ICA did, what GA did ect would go a long way to proving their case. Unfortunately they cannot because it obviously didn't go down as they say it did.


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