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Thread: Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #8

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by eleni777 View Post
    Geekygirl.. I concur. Casey is NOT A PLANNER...she flies by the seat of her pants. If she planned to kill Caylee and made chloroform, she would have also had found a better place to permanently hide her body, where she would never be found. The lies, the way the baby was dumped so close to home all indicate she had no plan.

    I believe the chloroform was an accidental by product of all the chemicals the Anthony's threw in the trunk to clean it out and get rid of the smell and whatever else they found in the trunk when they picked it up.
    I honestly always thought the chloroform searches were because she was either planning on getting rid of caylee and using the kidnapper story or she was going to pretend she was kidnapped to get money from her parents, and she was researching how people had been kidnapped before.

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  3. #152
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    I think Casey killed Caylee out of rage. However, let's pretend it actually was some sort of accident. I still think Casey deserves the death penalty for her behavior after her daughter's death and the horrid way she disposed of her baby, and the way she lied to authorities, ruined thousands of lives, and wasted so many resources. Fry her.
    No female, no matter how drunk, drugged, or provocatively dressed they may be, deserves to be ogled, harrassed, raped, or murdered. So stop the ignorant insinuations.

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  5. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by grandmaj View Post
    I agree I would love to see a link or MSM article which states that Bloise cleaned containers. This witness took the stand and swore to tell the truth. His testimony in no way reflected that he cleaned items. Baez can float any theory he wants within limits. That doesn't make it sworn testimony.
    I think Tony's apartment might have had a garbage disposal and there was NEVER any "food" in the trash bag... MOO
    "Curiosity killed the cat, but for a while I was a suspect." Steven Wright

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  7. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeekyGirl View Post
    Good point, but I would be asking myself if that's the most logical conclusion given the evidence or if I'm trying to interpret the search in the way that best fits my conclusion. Not saying that's what you're doing, just how I tend to evaluate my speculations.
    After learning that there were kidnappings involving duct tape reported around that time (can't remember exactly where I saw that) -- and assuming ICA would have been aware of same-- I was thinking that suggestible ICA might have included that tidbit in her scenario... along with neckbreaking, ruptured spleen, and household weapons. IMO she could have been boning up on convincing stories for LE if/when she did go through with a fake kidnapping turned murder... JMO.
    "Curiosity killed the cat, but for a while I was a suspect." Steven Wright

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  9. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by susan1122 View Post
    The chloroform could also be from decomposition. That was said at the trial, right? It is just the looking it up 84 times (84?) which would lead me to believe she tried it, at least.....but maybe not.

    I think she may not have bothered to throw Caylee in the pool. Did the dogs find decomposition in the pool? I know there was some in the back yard. Maybe she was going to bury her there and ran out of time. Moo
    I'm thinking at this point, the truth is sometimes the most simple. I think she may have actually drowned the baby in the pool in the afternoon of the 16th and knew at the time she did it she was going to blame it on her mother by leaving the ladder up and the gate open. The chloroform probably came about from the array of cleaning products CA used in the cleaning of the trunk and had nothing to do with the death. The computer search may have been an idea but I don't know that she ever acted on it. The duct tape I believe went on afterwards as the water was leaking from Caylee's nose and mouth. She grabbed the pooh blanket, wrapped her in it and put her in the trunk. Two days later, she went back to the house and wrapped her in the bag. The black bags supposedly didn't come from the house, so where did she get them from? If they could find that out, it might be the smoking gun.

    She dumped the body and went on her merry way. Over the next month, she had time to plan her alibi as I do believe she didn't know what she was going to tell her family and she knew she had to tell them something. The rest is what we have today. No matter how you look at it, she didn't want Caylee. Not when she found out she was on the way and not 2 years and 10 months later.
    Last edited by Baznme; 06-17-2011 at 11:18 PM. Reason: grammar
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  11. #156
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    I've always thought there was an abduction/car jacking plot, or at least a simple abduction and something went wrong or she waited too long not wanting to give up a night with Tony and the vehicle. Maybe she didn't want to injure herself or make herself the victim just yet. Anyone who can lie that well and go so far as to have elaborate stealing, make up a phony address book, send self emails, and zanny stories is capable of anything. I've also always thought chloroform might have been sprayed into the trunk due to her allegedly searching inhalation. Now I'm thinking it may have been sprayed in the trashbag and the trunk. I'll never believe that someone like Vaas who has studied decomposing bodies for 20 years would make such a mistake with a drowned decomposing body. A little toddler body at that. If Caylee did drown or suffocate, then Huntington must be correct that more flies would have been in the bag. He was right, there were flies in that bag, just not enough. Something disrupted their attraction and I believe it was loads of chloroform displacing the molecules in the trunk, or however it was that attempted to explain it, but didn't really get the chance. He said that flies would find a way to penetrate and get in, and they should have gotten into the trunk. If a few got in, then thousands should have gotten in. If Caylee wasn't in a trashbag, then there should be more carpet evidence. If she was in a trashbag from the beginning there should be more flies.

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  13. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIXIECAT View Post
    After learning that there were kidnappings involving duct tape reported around that time (can't remember exactly where I saw that) -- and assuming ICA would have been aware of same-- I was thinking that suggestible ICA might have included that tidbit in her scenario... along with neckbreaking, ruptured spleen, and household weapons. IMO she could have been boning up on convincing stories for LE if/when she did go through with a fake kidnapping turned murder... JMO.
    But given that fact, couldn't one argue that she could have been aware of them, and then when some sort of accident did happen, she recalled the stories and used the duct tape to stage a kidnapping scenario in order to escape ANY responsibility what so ever? Or point out that since there's not any way to determine if she did or not know about the kidnappings, and did research them at that time, that it may not even be a consideration? Again, not discounting your opinion, just pointing out how different people could interpret the same piece of information.
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  15. #158
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    Casey seems to make herself a victim, so if Caylee drowned it would seem like she'd have said she only got out of the pool for a minute to sit on the patio then had one of those seizures or passed out only to awake to Caylee drowned. She could have even called Jesse up and pretended to have one. Something like that would still have made her a victim and excused any neglect. She's capable of cooking something up if would have worked.

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  17. #159
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    Thumbs down Nancy Grace

    I can't stand her, and I hate the title "Tot Mom." It's disgusting. She doesn't know anymore than anyone else what happened to Caylee. But she loves publicity.

    For all those blaming the mother and/or other members of the family, I recall the same stuff was said over and over about JonBenet's family. Some even blamed the little brother. In that case, they never even had enough evidence to go to trial. Yet they were blamed everywhere and on all the forums and those loony newspapers. The family was excoriated! I never believed it. Now they think new evidence (which they missed last time-what a surprise) shows it may have been an intruder.

    It's a good thing they caught that nice next door neighbor, Westerfield in the Danielle Van Dam trial. He wasn't even suspected, but something gave him away. Cause they put the mother through the meat grinder and blamed her.

    Nobody knows what happened to poor little Caylee. I find it very difficult to believe anyone in the family did it. I haven't heard any motives strong enough for murdering a little child. I don't think that the police have done much of an investigation, concentrating only on Casey and possibly her dad or brother. While families are often involved, it's not proven that's always the case. Often as not, it's a stranger, neighbor or even a friend.

    Nancy Grace is disgusting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silmarion View Post
    I can't stand her, and I hate the title "Tot Mom." It's disgusting. She doesn't know anymore than anyone else what happened to Caylee. But she loves publicity.

    For all those blaming the mother and/or other members of the family, I recall the same stuff was said over and over about JonBenet's family. Some even blamed the little brother. In that case, they never even had enough evidence to go to trial. Yet they were blamed everywhere and on all the forums and those loony newspapers. The family was excoriated! I never believed it. Now they think new evidence (which they missed last time-what a surprise) shows it may have been an intruder.

    It's a good thing they caught that nice next door neighbor, Westerfield in the Danielle Van Dam trial. He wasn't even suspected, but something gave him away. Cause they put the mother through the meat grinder and blamed her.

    Nobody knows what happened to poor little Caylee. I find it very difficult to believe anyone in the family did it. I haven't heard any motives strong enough for murdering a little child. I don't think that the police have done much of an investigation, concentrating only on Casey and possibly her dad or brother. While families are often involved, it's not proven that's always the case. Often as not, it's a stranger, neighbor or even a friend.

    Nancy Grace is disgusting.
    BBM

    Statistically that is not true. According to homicide trends compiled from 1976-2005 by the US Department of Justice -
    Of all children under age 5 murdered:

    31% were killed by fathers
    29% were killed by mothers
    23% were killed by male acquaintances
    7% were killed by other relatives
    3% were killed by strangers

    http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/children.cfm
    "Emotional abuse isn't calling someone a name; it isn't simply raising your voice at someone you're meant to love...it's a concerted effort, a campaign, designed with the sole purpose of destruction. Your destruction. Emotional abuse crushes your spirit. It steals a piece of your soul. It changes everything about you and how you interact with others. You are never the same having survived it. In its wake, you question everything you ever thought you knew. You wonder what's wrong with you. You believe you aren't worth loving. You doubt yourself - constantly. And you learn to live with scars no one sees."


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  21. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by olive View Post
    I think Casey killed Caylee out of rage. However, let's pretend it actually was some sort of accident. I still think Casey deserves the death penalty for her behavior after her daughter's death and the horrid way she disposed of her baby, and the way she lied to authorities, ruined thousands of lives, and wasted so many resources. Fry her.
    I totally agree.
    Don't murder in Kentucky! My thread here.

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    A proud happy people, we were here long before the white man came. Stalking along meadow paths, we were used to hunting every day. The rivers gave us fish, The woods even gave us deer and other wild game. Here upon this land, we built our homes, and raised our families. Love was free and natural, as we moved swiftly among the trees. This was a country, It was here that we lived for centuries. Oh I want peace with my soul again. Oh I, I want peace with my soul again. Everyday was new love,. Our village was filled with smiling faces.

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  23. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by BritsKate View Post
    BBM

    Statistically that is not true. According to homicide trends compiled from 1976-2005 by the US Department of Justice -
    Of all children under age 5 murdered:

    31% were killed by fathers
    29% were killed by mothers
    23% were killed by male acquaintances
    7% were killed by other relatives
    3% were killed by strangers

    http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/children.cfm
    Where's the other 7% ?
    Don't murder in Kentucky! My thread here.

    http://websleuths.com/forums/showthr...n+lisa+tackett



    A proud happy people, we were here long before the white man came. Stalking along meadow paths, we were used to hunting every day. The rivers gave us fish, The woods even gave us deer and other wild game. Here upon this land, we built our homes, and raised our families. Love was free and natural, as we moved swiftly among the trees. This was a country, It was here that we lived for centuries. Oh I want peace with my soul again. Oh I, I want peace with my soul again. Everyday was new love,. Our village was filled with smiling faces.

    All credit from the quote above, goes to Tom Bee, and XIT! The first Rock Native American band.

    Thank you Tom!!

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  25. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tulessa View Post
    Where's the other 7% ?
    Good question. Perhaps unsolved cases? It isn't referenced in that table but this is a different one that breaks it down both by year and relationship to victim.

    http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/hom...kidsreltab.cfm
    "Emotional abuse isn't calling someone a name; it isn't simply raising your voice at someone you're meant to love...it's a concerted effort, a campaign, designed with the sole purpose of destruction. Your destruction. Emotional abuse crushes your spirit. It steals a piece of your soul. It changes everything about you and how you interact with others. You are never the same having survived it. In its wake, you question everything you ever thought you knew. You wonder what's wrong with you. You believe you aren't worth loving. You doubt yourself - constantly. And you learn to live with scars no one sees."


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  27. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by txsvicki View Post
    Casey seems to make herself a victim, so if Caylee drowned it would seem like she'd have said she only got out of the pool for a minute to sit on the patio then had one of those seizures or passed out only to awake to Caylee drowned. She could have even called Jesse up and pretended to have one. Something like that would still have made her a victim and excused any neglect. She's capable of cooking something up if would have worked.
    I don't think she'd bother getting in the pool with her. Just put her in and walk away.
    My posts are my opinion only.....

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  29. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by txsvicki View Post
    Casey seems to make herself a victim, so if Caylee drowned it would seem like she'd have said she only got out of the pool for a minute to sit on the patio then had one of those seizures or passed out only to awake to Caylee drowned. She could have even called Jesse up and pretended to have one. Something like that would still have made her a victim and excused any neglect. She's capable of cooking something up if would have worked.
    That's a really good point that I hadn't considered before. If Casey wanted to murder Caylee and planned it for any length of time, you'd think she could have come up with something better than the story she gave. Something like what you've outlined above--I could definitely see her doing something like this.

    Nothing makes sense with this case. I can't quite accept the prosecution's case exactly as they've laid it out, but I definitely don't buy the defense's story at all. I think there's got to be more to it that we'll just never be able to figure out. I mean, I could accept it was an accident--a drowning or something--if not for her total lack of grief and the outrageous lies used to cover it up. I could accept that it was premeditated with chloroform, if not for the fact that there are so many variables involved in that scenario (such as successfully making chloroform!) that I don't think Casey was capable of handling. I could accept that she killed her in a fit of rage, if not for the fact that a "soft kill"--whether with chloroform or duct tape--is an oddly slow way to kill someone in a fit of rage. (Aren't rage murders usually shooting, stabbing, or beating?) I guess I could buy that she drowned her purposefully, but then there's the duct tape . . .

    And then, if it was premeditated, why?!! It was a terrible plan if she meditated on it for any length of time; her lies about the nanny reek of desperation, as if she didn't expect to have to explain to her mother where Caylee was so soon, and that's the best she could come up with on the fly. It's simply not a logical story to explain why your child has been missing 31 days and you haven't shown any signs of distress.

    So, I guess I'm just stuck: I have no idea what happened to Caylee. I do think Casey was solely responsible, but I still have so many questions and uncertainties about the details.

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  31. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by txsvicki View Post
    Casey seems to make herself a victim, so if Caylee drowned it would seem like she'd have said she only got out of the pool for a minute to sit on the patio then had one of those seizures or passed out only to awake to Caylee drowned. She could have even called Jesse up and pretended to have one. Something like that would still have made her a victim and excused any neglect. She's capable of cooking something up if would have worked.
    I think the key, for me, is that I think she'd want to be excused of any responsibility whatsoever. Even now, in the face of the DP she isn't willing to say that she had anything to do with it. The defense would have had a much stronger case if they just stuck to the drowning scenario.
    Disclaimer:My posts are my opinion only, unless otherwise stated, and I reserve the right to change said given opinion at any point in time.

    Man has such a predilection for systems and abstract deductions that he is ready to distort the truth intentionally, he is ready to deny the evidence of his senses only to justify his logic-Fyodor Dostoyevsky

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  33. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelroy View Post
    That's a really good point that I hadn't considered before. If Casey wanted to murder Caylee and planned it for any length of time, you'd think she could have come up with something better than the story she gave. Something like what you've outlined above--I could definitely see her doing something like this.

    Nothing makes sense with this case. I can't quite accept the prosecution's case exactly as they've laid it out, but I definitely don't buy the defense's story at all. I think there's got to be more to it that we'll just never be able to figure out. I mean, I could accept it was an accident--a drowning or something--if not for her total lack of grief and the outrageous lies used to cover it up. I could accept that it was premeditated with chloroform, if not for the fact that there are so many variables involved in that scenario (such as successfully making chloroform!) that I don't think Casey was capable of handling. I could accept that she killed her in a fit of rage, if not for the fact that a "soft kill"--whether with chloroform or duct tape--is an oddly slow way to kill someone in a fit of rage. (Aren't rage murders usually shooting, stabbing, or beating?) I guess I could buy that she drowned her purposefully, but then there's the duct tape . . .

    And then, if it was premeditated, why?!! It was a terrible plan if she meditated on it for any length of time; her lies about the nanny reek of desperation, as if she didn't expect to have to explain to her mother where Caylee was so soon, and that's the best she could come up with on the fly. It's simply not a logical story to explain why your child has been missing 31 days and you haven't shown any signs of distress.

    So, I guess I'm just stuck: I have no idea what happened to Caylee. I do think Casey was solely responsible, but I still have so many questions and uncertainties about the details.
    I'm in the same boat. And that's why I'm glad I'm not a juror in this case. If this forum is a fair representation of how the jury is seeing the case, my fellow jurors would not like me very much.

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  35. #168
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    Something CA said on the stand is making me rethink the how Caylee died. CA said that the Pooh blanket disappeared like a week before Caylee did. So I asked myself why.

    One thought goes to something else that CA said on the stand - that there were back yard stones as the floor in Caylee's playhouse. So what if, instead of ICA leaving Caylee in the trunk of her car while she did her thing, she had put the Pooh blanket on the ground in the playhouse, drugged Caylee up, and then left her sleeping in the playhouse.

    If the family thought Caylee was with ICA, then no one would look in the playhouse for any reason. And because of all the issues she seemed to always have running out of gas, I think ICA wouldn't have chanced leaving Caylee in the trunk if she needed assistance getting more gas.

    It's JMHO, but my best theory guess at the moment is that after George left for work the last day he saw Caylee, ICA drugged her, left her in the playhouse and then left to see TL. Because of the heat, Caylee quietly passed in her sleep in her playhouse, and ICA came back to the house to find Caylee died. She might have intended to tell CA that Caylee was playing in her house, and fell asleep, but that when she went back to check on her, she found her dead - which would explain the attempted phone calls to CA. But when she couldn't reach her mother, she decided to just leave Caylee there and come back after seeing TL for the night.

    ICA came back to try to bury Caylee in the backyard and borrowed the neighbor's shovel to dig Caylee's grave. She put Caylee's body on the ground next to the playhouse, to try to remove the stones from under the playhouse to bury Caylee underneath. When she found it too difficult to dig a grave, she taped up Caylee's mouth and nose to stop the fluids, changed her clothes into fresh, dry ones, put Caylee into a garbage bad, and put her back into the playhouse until she could figure out where to put her body. Within a day or two, she remembered her old animal burial grounds, and decided to leave Caylee there. After dumping Caylee's body, she came back another day, and scrubbed the playhouse to get rid of any fluids - not realizing that some of the fluids had seeped into the ground next to the playhouse where she had laid her body, which is why the dogs "hit" next to the playhouse and not in it.

    I'm now thinking the decomp in the trunk actually came from Caylee's clothes she was wearing when she died being thrown into the trunk by ICA in a hurry to go and get rid of them.

    Not a complete thought yet, but I'm still marinating on the details....
    Last edited by artsy1; 06-18-2011 at 05:18 PM. Reason: forgot part

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  37. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelroy View Post
    Nothing makes sense with this case. I can't quite accept the prosecution's case exactly as they've laid it out, but I definitely don't buy the defense's story at all. I think there's got to be more to it that we'll just never be able to figure out. I mean, I could accept it was an accident--a drowning or something--if not for her total lack of grief and the outrageous lies used to cover it up. I could accept that it was premeditated with chloroform, if not for the fact that there are so many variables involved in that scenario (such as successfully making chloroform!) that I don't think Casey was capable of handling. I could accept that she killed her in a fit of rage, if not for the fact that a "soft kill"--whether with chloroform or duct tape--is an oddly slow way to kill someone in a fit of rage. (Aren't rage murders usually shooting, stabbing, or beating?) I guess I could buy that she drowned her purposefully, but then there's the duct tape . . . .
    What a great summary as to why this case is so interesting. It just doesn't make sense. But, if had to choose - I go with rage killing

    An accident - she would have loved all the attention surrounding it and, there being no prior history of abuse and her parents on her side, she would not have been blamed.

    Premeditated murder - she doesn't seem capable of thinking that far ahead; plus, she would have thought about how to dispose of the body - it would not have been in her trunk. What if she had traffic accident or stop?

    That leaves rage killing. She had already been thinking about killing Caylee for her own reasons; so she had ideas about it. I don't think she struck at Caylee. She was angry at her mother, the baby, her life and finally just did it. It was the result of long-term tension and strain associated with Caylee and living with her parents and some trigger on June 15th.
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  39. #170
    If it was a rage killing, then she would get manslaughter, is that correct?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tulessa View Post
    Where's the other 7% ?
    Imaginary nannies


    Justice Denied

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  42. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Shoat View Post
    What a great summary as to why this case is so interesting. It just doesn't make sense. But, if had to choose - I go with rage killing

    An accident - she would have loved all the attention surrounding it and, there being no prior history of abuse and her parents on her side, she would not have been blamed.

    Premeditated murder - she doesn't seem capable of thinking that far ahead; plus, she would have thought about how to dispose of the body - it would not have been in her trunk. What if she had traffic accident or stop?

    That leaves rage killing. She had already been thinking about killing Caylee for her own reasons; so she had ideas about it. I don't think she struck at Caylee. She was angry at her mother, the baby, her life and finally just did it. It was the result of long-term tension and strain associated with Caylee and living with her parents and some trigger on June 15th.

    I vote for premeditated. She had a HOT date planned with TL and Cindy couldn't babysit

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  44. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by BG4pip View Post
    I'm in the same boat. And that's why I'm glad I'm not a juror in this case. If this forum is a fair representation of how the jury is seeing the case, my fellow jurors would not like me very much.
    They wouldn't like me much either, but I'd appreciate having you on *my* jury if I ever needed one.
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    Man has such a predilection for systems and abstract deductions that he is ready to distort the truth intentionally, he is ready to deny the evidence of his senses only to justify his logic-Fyodor Dostoyevsky

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    Quote Originally Posted by Linda7NJ View Post
    I vote for premeditated. She had a HOT date planned with TL and Cindy couldn't babysit
    Jumping from "Cindy can't babysit" to murder seems like a huge leap to me. I just can't past the thought that she seemed to view herself as a masterful manipulator, why not try getting someone else to watch Caylee before resorting to murder? I'm not saying you're wrong, because goodness knows her mind was so twisted, maybe this did seem logical to her, but I guess that's the biggest problem in this case, that we don't really understand how her mind works. MOO
    Disclaimer:My posts are my opinion only, unless otherwise stated, and I reserve the right to change said given opinion at any point in time.

    Man has such a predilection for systems and abstract deductions that he is ready to distort the truth intentionally, he is ready to deny the evidence of his senses only to justify his logic-Fyodor Dostoyevsky

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  48. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silmarion View Post
    I can't stand her, and I hate the title "Tot Mom." It's disgusting. She doesn't know anymore than anyone else what happened to Caylee. But she loves publicity.

    For all those blaming the mother and/or other members of the family, I recall the same stuff was said over and over about JonBenet's family. Some even blamed the little brother. In that case, they never even had enough evidence to go to trial. Yet they were blamed everywhere and on all the forums and those loony newspapers. The family was excoriated! I never believed it. Now they think new evidence (which they missed last time-what a surprise) shows it may have been an intruder.

    It's a good thing they caught that nice next door neighbor, Westerfield in the Danielle Van Dam trial. He wasn't even suspected, but something gave him away. Cause they put the mother through the meat grinder and blamed her.

    Nobody knows what happened to poor little Caylee. I find it very difficult to believe anyone in the family did it. I haven't heard any motives strong enough for murdering a little child. I don't think that the police have done much of an investigation, concentrating only on Casey and possibly her dad or brother. While families are often involved, it's not proven that's always the case. Often as not, it's a stranger, neighbor or even a friend.

    Nancy Grace is disgusting.
    How do you explain the evidence? Particularly the decomp in Casey's car? I am not being ugly I sincerely want to know what you think.

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