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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by ynotdivein View Post
    I don't remember Bloise testifying that he cleaned any of the items in the trash bag before laying them out in the drying room? Can anyone provide me a link/time to his testimony about this?
    I agree I would love to see a link or MSM article which states that Bloise cleaned containers. This witness took the stand and swore to tell the truth. His testimony in no way reflected that he cleaned items. Baez can float any theory he wants within limits. That doesn't make it sworn testimony.


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  3. #92
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    gypsyblue is offline this is not what Haleigh would have wanted
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    Quote Originally Posted by thedeviledadvocate View Post
    I'm not accusing GB of destroying evidence intentionally. Under cross examination, JB did basically accuse him of inadvertantly altering evidence. I think that is what happened. I think GB made an error in judgement by clearing off foodstuffs from the items in the white trash bag. His job was to store the evidence. I'm not sure what protocol is for the storing of evidence items that are maggot infested, and could potentially cause bacteria, odors, etc. At the time he received the white trash bag evidence, no one knew how important this piece of evidence would eventually be. I don't believe he was in cover up mode. I do think this issue will be revisited during the defense portion of the trial. I think there were questions that JB couldn't ask him under cross because the state hadn't opened the doors to allow him to ask the questions he wanted to ask. One other thing about the white trash bag, I believe in the defense side of the case, the defense will claim the white trash bag is tainted evidence, because of its time in the dumpster. Any insects in that dumpster prior to the white trash bag being thrown in there, could have infested the white trash bag within the 18 hours it sat there. This fact could bring a lot of doubt to Dr. Haskell's testimony, because coffin flies are often found in dumpsters.

    As always, my entire post is my opinion only.
    bbm... I disagree with the bold.

    All evidence is just that...EVIDENCE.

    Its importance is why it was given to GB to be stored properly without tampering in the first place. I am sure that is why GB holds this crucial position to begin with.

    I do not feel that any (and ALL according to baez) of these 20+ years employees would risk their careers to conspire against casey.... jmooc
    QQQQQQQQQQ~nightmare the cat


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  5. #93
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    The bug expert testified and bolstered the testimony of Bloise. In order for there to have been those bugs in the trunk of the car there would have to be a large amount of organic matter. Add that to the pounds of raw meat testimony of Dr. Vass, and someone eating it with a plastic bag over their head, the trash/garbage theory doesn't hold up. The Organic material would have had to be in very large quantity and raw not processed food. The decomp and pot were on the paper towel.

    I believe a man who served in the Air Force for 12 years as a law enforcement officer, a self made man who has furthered his investigative knowledge and schooling who testified under oath as a member of forensic law enforcement being accused by Baez of tampering with evidence is a blatant lie. If Baez had any evidence to what he was saying he would have continued the questioning and impeached the witness. He did not because it is carp.

    Unfortunately that is how defense attorneys work.

    It is like the old joke "A defense attorney asks the witness on the stand, so when did you stop beating and cheating on your wife". The man never beat or cheated on his wife, says it a million times, but yet the jury still heard it. It doesn't make it any more true, it is a trick to make a witness with very crucial and compelling testimony be less compelling or believable.

    Baez "So you wouldn't intentionally destroy evidence now would you". same as the old joke of beating your wife. Bloise's testimony is a big piece of the puzzle. Baez can't fight the evidence so then he has to take the witness down a few pegs and go after the source of the testimony. Sad but that is how it works.

    Makes me want to Oldest trick in the book.


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  7. #94
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    I strongly considered that Caylee's death could have been an accident (drowning perhaps) and that maybe in ICA sick mind she thought the only solution was to make it look like a kidnapping.

    However, after thinking about it I have come to the conclusion this was no accident and staged kidnapping. First off, I don't think ICA is an idiot and if her intention was to make this look like a kidnapping then the smart thing would be to report the 'kidnapping' as soon as possible. I think the whole kidnapping story was the only story she could come up with in July '08 to make herself look not guilty. If she had reported the kidnapping soon after Caylee's death that would have cut into her partying time.

    The other reason I don't think it was a staged kidnapping after an accident, is if Caylee truly died by accident ICA wouldn't have thrown her daughter out like garbage for animals to eat. This shows a total disregard for her daughter and lacks empathy and love.

    And I don't believe for one minute GA was involved. He would have called 911 immediately, he wouldn't cover up for ICA, ICA wouldn't have taken the fall alone and tell her father at jailhouse visits he's been a wonderful father/grandfather, and he wouldn't have put a heart-shaped sticker and duct tape over Caylee's mouth.


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  9. #95
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    Anyone have an idea of when she put Caylee in the bags. There was only one leg from a blow fly - initial fly that can come within seconds of death - found in the trunk. There were hundreds of coffin flies found on the paper towels.

    I think she killed her around 3 or 4 when she came back to the house on June 16th. She thinks about putting her in the back yard and nixes that. By that time the blow fly finds its way to Caylee.

    From Ashton's questioning I am gleaning that he believes KC put Caylee in the bags immediately and that the black bag was closed tight by now and this kept the initial BLOW flies from getting to Caylee. The coffin flies, however, can get in immediately because they are so small and these flies are not interested after the purging starts which would have been almost immediately because of the heat.


  10. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagull65 View Post
    An increasingly verbal Caylee could have told on anyone. I've always had trouble believing in any motive for Casey to murder Caylee. Caylee was almost 3, one more year and she'd be able to go to public pre-Kindergarten. And Casey had never been hindered by Caylee anyway, she just took Caylee along or left Caylee with her Mom when possible. I can't totally rule out the possibility that Casey could have murdered Caylee, but I find it unlikely. imo
    even if she would go to pre-k in a year that's only during the daytime hours. ICA parties on the weekends and at night. not from 8am-3pm when caylee would be at school. so caylee would still get in the way of her social life b/c she couldn't find a babysitter since CA said she couldn't watch her anymore.


  11. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by thedeviledadvocate View Post
    CA has not had the best memory, nor has she been the most reliable witness, so she could have simply forgot to mention she removed a pooh blanket from the car. She did throw some things in the washing machine, but I don't recall if she mentioned a pooh blanket.

    The bedroom has a pooh bear theme, so it is highly likely that the A's owned more than one pooh blanket.

    As always my entire post is my opinion only.
    i expect to hear more about this blanket because the state did not present a blanket to the witness that could have been what she saw in the car. So from the defence standpoint we have evidence in the car after Casey ditches the car and a witness to seeing it and no mention of the issue from the state and then GA gets the car and the or (a) blanket shows up at the place where Caylee is found.

    If there is a different blanket I do behave the SA would have asked the amscot woman to ID it as the one from thar car ,the defence has enough with that witness to cause a reasonable doubt Casey put the blanket there. I do not think the SA would have left that issue wide open could they aviod it.

    All my opinion we really might never hear about the blanket again.


  12. #98
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    Two different blankets appear in pictures.
    One blanket matches the bedding (same pattern, background and is a comforter style), often seen in pics hanging at the end of the bed/cribside and the other is a fuzzy/softie type that is more beige or yellow in the background. IMO HTH


  13. #99
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    The way the tape was applied fits the theory that it was applied while she was in her car seat, IMO. More tape to one side and leaning downwards somewhat would fit with a child in a car seat with their head turned and downward to try and prevent the tape from being applied. JMO

    ETA: Or even head facing away and upward at an extreme angle, IMO.


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  15. #100
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    I have a question that maybe I missed in Cindy's testimony today. Did anyone hear who Cindy was referring to when she said "we" had replaced the stuffed toy bag(white laundry bag) with the hanging bag and put it a black trash bag in the garage? I would think that only Cindy and who ever killed Caylee would know where and what black trash bag contained that white cloth bag.


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  17. #101
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    I think she toyed with the idea of getting rid of Caylee...but her motivating factor was more than just freedom from motherhood (she could've had that at the drop of a hat--Cindy was already contemplating custody)---it was getting back at the parents. Maybe she plotted a faked kidnapping in order to raise funds...and it went wrong while testing it out (duct tape and choloform don't mix well on a 2=year old). Or in her anger, went off and hit/pushed and caused the death. Or she drugged her and left her somewhere to go with Tony and that did it. I think she didn't care about the risk of whatever it was that she did to the child making it a premeditated act. I think in her fear of getting caught she responded by partying it up and living the beautiful life for as long as she could. Her behavior grew more reckless. I wish the prosecution didn't put forth the duct tape as the choice of murder weapon because I'm still not convinced it was used to keep the body fluids from leaking all over the place. I think the defense should've stuck to the nanny did it....makes more sense than the accidental drowning that George the Molester covered up.


  18. #102
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    I think Casey might have drowned Caylee deliberately on the 16th, although I can't then understand the need for duct tape. I keep remembering a moment in Cindy Anthony's testimony where she said that she and Caylee were enjoying the pool the evening of June 15, and Casey came home and wanted to get in with them, but Cindy told her no - that Caylee had had enough and it was time to get her ready for bed. I thought at the time "uh oh, classic sibling rivalry incident". I also think the nanny story came to be because Casey resented being reduced to being Princess Caylee's Nanny which she desperately wanted not to be. If Cindy had a history of playing with Caylee and then handing her back to her mother Casey with an admonition that playtime was over and duty was calling, that's plenty of motive and could be the trigger.

    Or Casey could just have decided that somebody owed her a pool dip, so she took one the next day, and then didn't bother to put up the ladder because she knew she was "eliminating the child" next so that particular caution was no longer needed.


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  20. #103
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    I have a question about the duct tape. I know this isn't likely the right thread to ask it but I just cannot find one that would be. Was the duct tape wrapped around Caylee's skull or was it just around the facial area?


  21. #104
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    GeekyGirl is offline I rock at Trivial Pursuit, just don't ask me where I left my keys.
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    ***I'll apologize in advance because this is going to be a long one, but I'm hoping some of you who have theories can answer some of my questions.***

    Every time I think I have a grasp on what happened, something comes along to change my mind. The inconsistencies in this case are just mind boggling, even taking into account that Casey and the rest of the family are all CCFCP. The following are what the prosecution has presented as far as theories of her death.

    1. The chloroform theory (with or without duct tape)
    Pros:
    -The Internet searches
    -Casey wanting to sedate Caylee so she could go party
    -Testimony that high levels of chloroform were in the trunk
    Cons:
    -No evidence that she ever made chloroform
    -It's a short acting sedative, 15 minutes or so, so not useful for KC's needs
    -If the death occurred on the night of the 15th, or during the day on the 16th why the need to sedate her?
    -If it was intended to kill her, where'd she do it?
    +If in the car, when? At night? In broad daylight?
    +In the house? Where was the chloroform stored?
    -If it was intended to kill her, and stage an accident, didn't she think it would be detected? KC's no genius, but even laypeople these days know about autopsies... The chick did supposedly watch CSI a lot.
    -If it was intended to kill her, shows major preplanning and might show compassion towards Caylee (wanting a quick painless death) that's contradicted by a lot of what happened after she died.


    My conclusion: A weak case for the use of chloroform, can't rule it out, but I wouldn't say it's likely.

    2. Duct tape only
    Pros:
    -Easy to obtain, KC had access to it
    -Effective, doesn't require much sophistication of thought or preplanning
    -Found in a position that suggests it was applied in a manner that would cause death if applied while Caylee were alive
    -Suggested link to a heart shape sticker similar to the ones KC had
    Cons:
    -Unable to prove it was applied before death
    -Could be argued it was used to stage kidnapping postmortem
    -Is a horrific way to kill someone who is awake. Would be eye to eye with the victim, who would be panicked and struggling.
    -where did it occur? At home? Was the duct tape in the room with KC? Why not just use a pillow if suffocation is the purpose? No eye to eye contact with the victim, probably quicker, just as quiet.
    -where did it occur? The car? When? At night? In broad daylight? Both are extremely risky.
    - could argue that it was done postmortem. Covering the face of the dead can be a way of dehumanizing them to allow for easier acceptance of their disposal for the killer.

    My conclusion: Again, not a slam dunk to me, even trying to consider KC's illogical mindset.

    I realize that some of the evidence might be conflicting because KC herself was conflicted (I.e. Body in trash bags and disposed of casually, but the sticker being placed and comforting items left at the body site) but IMO I just haven't seen the SA make a compelling case that proves that either of these were how Caylee died. My opinion only of course, and maybe I'm missing something.
    Disclaimer:My posts are my opinion only, unless otherwise stated, and I reserve the right to change said given opinion at any point in time.

    Man has such a predilection for systems and abstract deductions that he is ready to distort the truth intentionally, he is ready to deny the evidence of his senses only to justify his logic-Fyodor Dostoyevsky


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  23. #105
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    I think this thread is a fairly good preview of what will go on in the jury room during deliberations. There are a lot of sensible people here that are well informed and there still is not a general consensus as to what happened.


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