View Poll Results: who molested/abused JB?

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  • JR

    118 27.83%
  • BR

    109 25.71%
  • JAR

    22 5.19%
  • a close family friend

    25 5.90%
  • a stranger/stalker a la JMK

    16 3.77%
  • PR-it wasn't sexual abuse,it was corporal punishment

    73 17.22%
  • she wasn't previously abused/molested

    61 14.39%
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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by madeleine View Post
    I always had the impression that the old lady had no idea what she was talking about,maybe she didn't even had a clue what molestation really means....but imo was the kind of person who always HAS to have an answer or opinion...?
    Nedra wasn't THAT old. And I cannot imagine her (or any adult) not knowing what molestation means. She knew exactly what she was talking about, IMO. She was trying to "play down" any allegations of sexual abuse. The way I see it was she was also trying to play it down because she was protecting someone- her grandson maybe. As if to say it wasn't "serious" sex.
    I think it may have occurred in her own family with her daughters.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.


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  3. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
    If you look at the pageant reality shows like "Toddlers & Tiaras" you'll see that seductive poses and moves and overtly flirtatious behavior is encouraged. These little girls are taught to move, dance, and engage the judges in an outright sexual way, in the name of being "precocious". It isn't cute and isn't precocious. It's just WRONG. Not to mention that a TRULY pretty and talented child doesn't need to be sexual to impress judges.
    JB started the pageants around age 3 or at least after Patsy's cancer was in remission. As she grew from a toddler (3-4) to a little girl (5-6) the dance lessons and coaching continued, with Patsy taking an aggressive part in the "making of JonBenet". Patsy's eye was on the Miss America crown prize for JB, and everything she did was to that end.
    Some children are more naturally flirtatious than others, and they do not put a sexual spin on it. It was Patsy who encouraged JB's pageant behavior to reflect a more "adult" persona.
    I understood what you meant when you put "little bit" in quotes. I used the quotes myself when mentioning Nedra's comment.
    most daddy's will come unglued if anyone looks at his 5 yr old daughter in a sexy way. i've seen some not even want their daughters to play dress-up and put on make-up just there in the house.


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  5. #153
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    I'm still thinking it was BR. Why a garrote? Because BR didn't have the strength, after she was laying there dying BR picked up the flashlight and smashed it over her head.

    I believe BR was exposed to porn, or movies, and played it out what he saw, that and possibly the early sexual exploration.

    The Ramsey's knew it was BR and started the cover up.

    I do know in my heart of hearts and common sense that someone in that family did this. If it was PR after her death why not just come out with it to put it all to rest?

    I can see PR and JR going to the extreme to protect BR.

    Again though I'm not an expert on this case whatsoever so i will defer to them.


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  7. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lera213 View Post
    I'm still thinking it was BR. Why a garrote? Because BR didn't have the strength, after she was laying there dying BR picked up the flashlight and smashed it over her head.

    I believe BR was exposed to porn, or movies, and played it out what he saw, that and possibly the early sexual exploration.

    The Ramsey's knew it was BR and started the cover up.

    I do know in my heart of hearts and common sense that someone in that family did this. If it was PR after her death why not just come out with it to put it all to rest?

    I can see PR and JR going to the extreme to protect BR.

    Again though I'm not an expert on this case whatsoever so i will defer to them.
    Lera213,
    BDI is entirely possible. Its the slightly more consistent theory, but imo it lacks a smoking gun aspect.

    Everything that occurs after the Ramsey's arrived back from the Whites, seems to be a normal family night, topped off with a pineapple snack.

    So whatever happened was unexpected. I reckon, after her snack, JonBenet headed off to someone elses bedroom, given prior events it was probably Burke's bedroom. Her bedclothes from a previous stay were likely still deposited there. There has never been any mention of JonBenet's pink pajama bottoms.

    Prior to her death somone sexually assaulted JonBenet. So either she had her throat compressed and her head whacked to silence her, but since sharing a bed with Burke was not unknown, why does he need to visit violence upon her, also the extent of the violence exceeds that I would attribute to a nine-year old boy!

    Why does Burke need to kill his sister? This is where a BDI falls down for me.


    .


  8. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by UKGuy View Post
    Lera213,
    BDI is entirely possible. Its the slightly more consistent theory, but imo it lacks a smoking gun aspect.

    Everything that occurs after the Ramsey's arrived back from the Whites, seems to be a normal family night, topped off with a pineapple snack.

    So whatever happened was unexpected. I reckon, after her snack, JonBenet headed off to someone elses bedroom, given prior events it was probably Burke's bedroom. Her bedclothes from a previous stay were likely still deposited there. There has never been any mention of JonBenet's pink pajama bottoms.

    Prior to her death somone sexually assaulted JonBenet. So either she had her throat compressed and her head whacked to silence her, but since sharing a bed with Burke was not unknown, why does he need to visit violence upon her, also the extent of the violence exceeds that I would attribute to a nine-year old boy!

    Why does Burke need to kill his sister? This is where a BDI falls down for me.


    .
    I thought maybe Burke was very jealous of his sister because she got all the attention. Think of the time, money, effort that goes into each pageant JB was in. I mean it could be any one of the 3. Perhaps mommy was showing JB how to be sexy for the judges, gosh maybe she even had her watch some not so clean movies to show JB how to be sexy. I mean the mind can just go anywhere with this.

    I do think that the effort and money that this family spent to derail an investigation proves they have much to hide.


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  10. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Lera213 View Post
    I'm still thinking it was BR. Why a garrote? Because BR didn't have the strength, after she was laying there dying BR picked up the flashlight and smashed it over her head.

    I believe BR was exposed to porn, or movies, and played it out what he saw, that and possibly the early sexual exploration.

    The Ramsey's knew it was BR and started the cover up.

    I do know in my heart of hearts and common sense that someone in that family did this. If it was PR after her death why not just come out with it to put it all to rest?

    I can see PR and JR going to the extreme to protect BR.

    Again though I'm not an expert on this case whatsoever so i will defer to them.
    what makes you say he was exposed to "porn or "movies" and played it out"?? where is there any evidence whatsoever that he was exposed to porn??

    If you read up on the injuries suffered by JonBenet you will note the extreme force used to produce the head injury imo not something a weedy little 9 year old like Burke could possibly have done.

    There is no evidence he was jealous to the extend he would have killed her. Most siblings will be jealous of each other over various things but there is no evidence here that Burke was that bothered about JonBenet getting the attention at pageans mostly he probably viewed it as "girls stuff" and was probably happy that his mum was putting the pressure on his sister to be perfect rather than him!

    Have you looked at the many photos of Burke and JonBenet together? they are natural , happy photos of a brother and sister who clearly love each other imo.


  11. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
    Nedra wasn't THAT old. And I cannot imagine her (or any adult) not knowing what molestation means. She knew exactly what she was talking about, IMO. She was trying to "play down" any allegations of sexual abuse. The way I see it was she was also trying to play it down because she was protecting someone- her grandson maybe. As if to say it wasn't "serious" sex.
    I think it may have occurred in her own family with her daughters.
    maybe they all knew about BR and JB playing doctor or something and never took it serious....I mean in this case we can't really talk about abuse nor molestation but maybe this is what she was thinking of,kids playing,nothing serious.....
    but IMO if JB was really molested before the murder it wasn't the kids playing doctor,it was more serious hence such a cover-up.(redressing-I don't think she was wearing those longjohns and shirt she was found in when it happened ,whipping the body off,changing the panties,RN,etc)


  12. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by FairM View Post
    what makes you say he was exposed to "porn or "movies" and played it out"?? where is there any evidence whatsoever that he was exposed to porn??

    If you read up on the injuries suffered by JonBenet you will note the extreme force used to produce the head injury imo not something a weedy little 9 year old like Burke could possibly have done.

    There is no evidence he was jealous to the extend he would have killed her. Most siblings will be jealous of each other over various things but there is no evidence here that Burke was that bothered about JonBenet getting the attention at pageans mostly he probably viewed it as "girls stuff" and was probably happy that his mum was putting the pressure on his sister to be perfect rather than him!

    Have you looked at the many photos of Burke and JonBenet together? they are natural , happy photos of a brother and sister who clearly love each other imo.


    FairM, About those loving photos. Of course the pictures of the two of them together would show naturally happy children. Who takes photos of children when they are fighting, or hitting at each other or being cruel to one another? And then, present these hate photos in a family album or pass them on to friends. Family photos don't have to be posed, but I've rarely seen ones taken when the children were not getting along.
    Just pointing out that photos of JonBenet and Burke together isn't positive evidence of how they regarded each other. jmo
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  14. #159
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    BR certainly didn't "need" to kill his sister. IF he did, it was unintentional. If he was molesting her a little too vigorously (enough to cause the bleeding we know happened) she may have screamed and he whacked her with the flashlight to shut her up.
    The housekeeper claimed to have found them under the covers in BR's room on more than one occasion. I do not recall her mentioning a flashlight, but it isn't hard to picture the kids under the covers with a flashlight, exploring each other.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.


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  16. #160
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    Angry

    Quote Originally Posted by stilettos View Post
    As an incest survivor...there is no "a little bit" molested. Fondling is molested, sex in front of a child...abuse, sexually inappropriate content exposed by the perp...abuse. No little bit to it. It is all abuse...and it is hell for children.
    I totally agree!!! A recent poster tried to suggest it was...
    Please help locate Mark Dribin http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...ht=Mark+Dribin and Ilene Misheloff http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sho...lene+Misheloff and bring them home.

    I'm a Helicopter Parent- I know where my child is, and she's no less intelligent or creative for it.


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  17. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by azwriter View Post
    [/B]

    FairM, About those loving photos. Of course the pictures of the two of them together would show naturally happy children. Who takes photos of children when they are fighting, or hitting at each other or being cruel to one another? And then, present these hate photos in a family album or pass them on to friends. Family photos don't have to be posed, but I've rarely seen ones taken when the children were not getting along.
    Just pointing out that photos of JonBenet and Burke together isn't positive evidence of how they regarded each other. jmo
    I am not clear about what point you are trying to make here but quite obviously people don't take photos of children fighting or hitting each other!!!

    I was stating MY opinion of what I see in those photos , I don't always see that type of affection in other photos of children, I recognise genuine love and affection when I see it.


  18. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDee249 View Post
    BR certainly didn't "need" to kill his sister. IF he did, it was unintentional. If he was molesting her a little too vigorously (enough to cause the bleeding we know happened) she may have screamed and he whacked her with the flashlight to shut her up.
    The housekeeper claimed to have found them under the covers in BR's room on more than one occasion. I do not recall her mentioning a flashlight, but it isn't hard to picture the kids under the covers with a flashlight, exploring each other.
    As you already mentioned this is pure Speculation.

    My speculation IF they were seen by the housekeeper under the covers it does not mean Burke was molesting JonBenet or that they were exploring each other, perhaps they were just playing an innocent game as children do that had nothing whatsoever to do with molestation, ! they may even have used a flashlight to read a book under the covers as children often do.


  19. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lera213 View Post
    I'm still thinking it was BR. Why a garrote? Because BR didn't have the strength, after she was laying there dying BR picked up the flashlight and smashed it over her head.

    I believe BR was exposed to porn, or movies, and played it out what he saw, that and possibly the early sexual exploration.

    The Ramsey's knew it was BR and started the cover up.

    I do know in my heart of hearts and common sense that someone in that family did this. If it was PR after her death why not just come out with it to put it all to rest?

    I can see PR and JR going to the extreme to protect BR.

    Again though I'm not an expert on this case whatsoever so i will defer to them.
    I agree with your post! I'm sure the family was going to do everything they could do to try and protect Burke.


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  21. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by FairM View Post
    As you already mentioned this is pure Speculation.

    My speculation IF they were seen by the housekeeper under the covers it does not mean Burke was molesting JonBenet or that they were exploring each other, perhaps they were just playing an innocent game as children do that had nothing whatsoever to do with molestation, ! they may even have used a flashlight to read a book under the covers as children often do.
    Yes, of course that could be the case, as well as my theory. BUT- we do have a dead little girl whose corpse had evidence of sexual molestation.
    While we do not know who the molester was, again, ALL present in the home that night must be considered.
    Sexual exploration in children is common, especially among siblings. Rarely results in the death of one of the children. But...it can happen. especially if another older sibling was also a participant. In this case, there IS an older male sibling, and although he claimed not to be in Boulder that night, a neighbor saw him going into the house that day. And his mother in another state, with whom he was alleged to have spent that day, was immediately given a lawyer to prevent any questioning along that line or providing of photo evidence, etc.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.


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  23. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lera213 View Post
    I thought maybe Burke was very jealous of his sister because she got all the attention. Think of the time, money, effort that goes into each pageant JB was in. I mean it could be any one of the 3. Perhaps mommy was showing JB how to be sexy for the judges, gosh maybe she even had her watch some not so clean movies to show JB how to be sexy. I mean the mind can just go anywhere with this.

    I do think that the effort and money that this family spent to derail an investigation proves they have much to hide.
    Lera213,
    I thought maybe Burke was very jealous of his sister because she got all the attention.
    You could be right, just depends on how mature Burke was for his age. Personally I doubt Burke was that bothered by his 6-year old sister doing pageants and receiving lots of attention. At his age pageants would be of little interest to him, he would likely view it all as girly stuff.

    I mean the mind can just go anywhere with this.
    Sure can. We also have the autopsy report and Coroner Meyer's verbatim remarks regarding digital penetration and sexual contact. So we can be fairly certain just prior to her death JonBenet snacked some pineapple, was then sexually molested, followed by a head injury and asphyxiation!

    Her head injury may or may not have preceded her initial asphyxiation, or they may both run together one being the consequence of the other. Which is a position I favor.

    Unless it was deliberate why would anyone in the house want to whack JonBenet on the head with some heavy object? Would they do this with JonBenet standing up, lying down, whats the percentage in this for a relative?

    I think whoever was molesting JonBenet tried to silence her by compressing her throat, she then fell onto the floor or hit some object on the way down.
    I think it was the abuse position that likely contributed towards her head injury?

    I do think that the effort and money that this family spent to derail an investigation proves they have much to hide.
    Yes lots to hide. Think of all the officials that received brown envelopes, the friends who were offered improved positions.



    .


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