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Thread: TX - Orange County - White Female 72UFTX, 13-18, Jan 1984 - previous braces

  1. #76
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    1200+ miles away - not where I thought they'd find Mindi

    Wish they'd prove it one way or the other.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irish_Eyes View Post
    From what I understand of mtDNA, it's passed on from a mother to all of her children. So the relatives of Mindy that would have the same mtDNA are her full siblings, mother, full siblings of mother, maternal grandmother, her full siblings, and any of maternal grandmother's sister's children, etc., etc.

    Wish I still had my ancestry.com account. Are we sure that somewhere in time there is no living female relative of the same mtDNA line? Even if it is someone farther up in the family tree who may not have known Mindy? From what I understand, the rate of mutation for mtDNA is not rapid....is it not entirely possible that some fourth cousin could have the same mtDNA profile as Mindy?
    I find it hard to believe that there are no living maternal relatives at all. however, unless we knew what Mindi's mother's maiden name was then we have no way of trying to figure out who they were.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarlK90245 View Post
    The article is incorrect. It should have said that DNA from a maternal blood relative would tell for sure.

    They were unable to extract nucDNA from the unidentified remains. All they have is mtDNA. Mindy's mother died when she was a baby, and they are unable to locate anyone on the maternal side of Mindy's family. Without a maternal relative they cannot do a mtDNA comparison.

    Mindy's aunt and half-sister are both from the father's side of the family, and their nucDNA is entered in CODIS. However, samples from paternal relatives will enable CODIS to compare to UID's for whom they have developed nucDNA profiles.

    Therefore, they are at a standstill. They can't find dental records for Mindi. They can't find any of Mindi's maternal relatives to do a mtDNA comparison. And they don't have a nucDNA sample on the UID to do a nucDNA comparison to her paternal relatives.
    Carl, I found Mindi's mother's maiden name I have a decent shot at contacting someone from Mindi's mother's family. She had at least one sister (who might be deceased) but who are we looking for? ANYONE related by blood to Mindi's mother or only females related by blood to the mother? does it matter how far removed (i.e. any cousin from the mother's side)?

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  5. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by webrocket View Post
    Carl, I found Mindi's mother's maiden name I have a decent shot at contacting someone from Mindi's mother's family. She had at least one sister (who might be deceased) but who are we looking for? ANYONE related by blood to Mindi's mother or only females related by blood to the mother? does it matter how far removed (i.e. any cousin from the mother's side)?
    Potential FRS contributors for Mitochondrial DNA could include (though not all-inclusive):
    * Siblings - M or F, as long as they have the same mother (we already know that there are none)
    * Maternal Aunts or Uncles - (i.e., Any of her mother's siblings (M or F) whose mother is also Mindy's grandmother)
    * Maternal Grandmother
    * Cousins (M or F) on the mother's side - (i.e., Any children of her mother's sister whose grandmother is also Mindy's grandmother would qualify - However, children of her mother's brother would not qualify)
    * 2nd Cousins (M or F) (i.e., Any children of the female cousins above)
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 08-19-2012 at 04:25 PM.

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    there is reference in a link to a news item that tied Mindi to the UID to a maternal relative named Kali Smith living in FL. so LE must know that a maternal relative exists, the question is whether they realize the significance of it.

    how does this email sound?

    Dear Sir or Madam,

    I am a private citizen and I have followed to some extent the missing persons case of Mindi Chambers. I believe it is your case # 1995-1070-353.

    As I understand it, the only DNA that is available for Mindi is nuclear DNA from her father's family and that your office has no DNA sample from any of Mindi's maternal relatives. To your knowledge has anyone requested a family reference sample from a maternal relative?

    Mindi's mother's name was M--- ----- Chambers. (see link which as articles about her death).

    [omitted here]

    I have ascertained that she has two living sisters, K------ Smith and [redacted], both of whom live in Florida. K------, nicknamed Kali, resides at [redacted] . her phone number might be either [redacted] .

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  9. #81
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    Instead of your second paragraph, you might want to say something like the following:

    Authorities have not been able to verify the possible connection of Mindi to the skeletal remains found in Orange County TX on 01-Jan-1984 (NCIC #U-159371356). As I understand it, it is because they are unable to locate any suitable maternal relatives from which to construct a Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) profile, and the University of North Texas has been unable to construct a nuclear DNA (nucDNA) profile on the skeletal remains to compare to the nucDNA of her paternal relatives.

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  11. #82
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    the UID is NOT Mindi Chambers.

    I got word back from the Mesa, AZ PD that they have mtDNA from Mindi's maternal aunts as well as the nucDNA from a step-sibling and this particular UID has been ruled out as Mindi on DNA grounds.

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  13. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by webrocket View Post
    the UID is NOT Mindi Chambers.

    I got word back from the Mesa, AZ PD that they have mtDNA from Mindi's maternal aunts as well as the nucDNA from a step-sibling and this particular UID has been ruled out as Mindi on DNA grounds.
    Frankly, I don't believe them. The aunts are paternal, not maternal.

    I do know that they collected DNA from her father's sisters. She was living with relatives on the father's side of the family in Mesa AZ. If they had also collected DNA from maternal aunts, then they would have said that they had DNA from the step sibling, and from aunts on both sides of the family.
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 08-23-2012 at 06:10 PM.

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  15. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarlK90245 View Post
    Frankly, I don't believe them. The aunts are paternal, not maternal.

    I do know that they collected DNA from her father's sisters. She was living with relatives on the father's side of the family in Mesa AZ. If they had also collected DNA from maternal aunts, then they would have said that they had DNA from the step sibling, and from aunts on both sides of the family.
    I gave them the married names of Mindi's mother's sisters who are in FL. I found an address for one of them conveyed that and the officer said he had their names, addresses and that they had both given mtDNA samples.

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  17. #85
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    I was just looking at the dental chart in the Jane Doe's NamUs casefile:

    https://identifyus.org/en/cases/4573

    In the comments, it says "mandible not recovered"

    Then in the chart, all the lowers are marked "N" for "natural tooth with no filling". Obviously they goofed on the dental chart.

    If this UID did have any fillings, missing teeth, or restorations on her lower teeth, the system will not be able to match her up on dentals. Any MP with fillings on her lower teeth will be ruled out based on "irreconcilable inconsistencies".

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  19. #86
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    by the way, Mindi's parents were extremely good looking. there is a picture of the three of them (with some other child in the pic) at this link. I am assuming Mindi is the smaller of the two children.

    http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg...&PIpi=60453432

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  21. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarlK90245 View Post
    That's not entirely true that there is zero chance for a definitive match-up.

    In the event that this UID was not Mindi, there is still the chance that the UID and Mindi could be matched up to their correct counterparts.

    The UID has mtDNA available but no nucDNA. Mindi has familial nucDNA from paternal relatives available and in CODIS. But no maternal relatives are available to provide a mtDNA sample.

    The two DNA types are incompatible for comparison, but if this is not Mindi, the UID could be matched up if a MP case with mtDNA from maternal relatives was input to CODIS. And Mindi could be matched up to a UID with nucDNA available.

    However, since this UID is probably Mindi, the above is all academic.
    And failing all that, couldn't they exhume Mindi's mother's body and collect DNA from her if they really wanted to put this thing to rest?
    I can't complain but sometimes I still do. Life's been good to me so far. - Joe Walsh

  22. #88
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    I contacted Melanie Schramm of TXDPS. She has nothing in her records to indicate that Mindi Chambers has ever been ruled out. But she will check with Mesa PD to see what they have.

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  24. #89
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    kpdx is offline Jane Doe was discovered Aug. 14, 1977 outside of Everett WA
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    Has Marie Ann Blee been compared against Orange County Jane? http://doenetwork.org/cases/219dfco.html

    I realize the distance is by no means close, and there are several years in between LKA and UID's suggested time of death but here is why I like the potential:

    *Marie was last seen in a V neck, Jane had a V Neck
    *Height close
    *Hair color off, but hairstyle close
    *Facial features close
    *Marie had braces removed three months before disappearance

    i agree mindi seems like a likely match, but i also believe it never hurts to look outside the box
    'Nothing clears up a case so much as stating it to another person.'

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    There are two OC TX Jane Does found on the same day with similar age ranges:
    Namus 4573, case 84-0003 and Namus 4574, case PA84-0009. How is it possible that two teen girls with brown hair around the same age were discovered on the same day in the same county, and the info isnt referenced in each case? There appear to be two different ME's.

    If 4573 isnt Sondra Rambler, maybe it is more reasonable that 4574 is. There was still soft tissue attached to the 4574 remains. The mandible was missing from this set as well.

    ETA:

    Link to 4574 https://identifyus.org/en/cases/full_report/4574
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  27. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by believe09 View Post
    There are two OC TX Jane Does found on the same day with similar age ranges:

    Namus 4573, case 84-0003 and Namus 4574, case PA84-0009. How is it possible that two teen girls with brown hair around the same age were discovered on the same day in the same county, and the info isnt referenced in each case? There appear to be two different ME's.
    I was just looking at these two cases, trying to figure out if they are the same girl and if someone has royally screwed up the data entry. I think this is in fact one UID with two different entries on NamUs, and here's why:

    http://www.harriscountytx.gov/CmpDoc...01-01-0009.pdf

    This Unidentified Decedent Notice from Harris County gives a HCME case number of PA84-0009 and a police agency number of Orange County SO 84-0003, thus the origin of two different case numbers.

    As far as the two different MEs, one is the Harris County Institute of Forensic Sciences and the other is the Orange County Justice of the Peace. Many smaller jurisdictions in Texas routinely forward cases to Harris County for more advanced examination.

    There are, however, other discrepancies that concern me:

    Doe #72UFTX gives a height estimate of 4'11" to 5'2" with shoulder-length hair (per sketch)
    NamUs #4573 gives no height estimate at all, no hair length specified
    NamUs #4574 gives a height estimate of 54", which would be 4'6" tall, hair was 2" long
    The Harris County ME's case report gives a height estimate of 5'6" tall, hair was 2" long

    So this girl could be anywhere from 54" to 66" tall. I tend to think that the info coming directly from the Harris County ME's office would be the most accurate, so I'm gonna take a wild leap here and say that this UID was 5'6" tall with very short brown hair.

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    I have long wondered if this UID (or the other one found the same day) could be Amy Yachimec missing since Nov 1981 from Pheonix AZ?

    Here is Amy's thread.

    [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44529"]AZ AZ - Amy M. Yachimec, 13, Phoenix, 6 Nov 1981 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

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  30. #93
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    I never heard anything about Amy having previous braces though...

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    AMY YACHIMEC:

    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/y/yachimec_amy.html

    CLOTHING: a blue terry cloth short-sleeved shirt Amy has no DNA available.
    Attached Images Attached Images
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  33. #95
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    If Amy ever did have braces, it is very doubtful that she would have been done with them at 13 years old.

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    ME from Harris County will be looking into the duplicate entry in NamUs and why the sketch has not been posted. So hopefully by the end of the month (Oct 2013) some of this confusion can be cleared up.
    For I the Lord thy God will hold they right hand, saying unto thee, Fear not; I will help thee. ~Is 41:13

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  36. #97
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    About braces: train tracks cause a shortening of the roots of teeth, because they are being forced against the bone and it erodes them. Perhaps an x-ray showed her roots were short? Or maybe she had a combination of extremely straight teeth with some of her pre-molars missing, as these are the teeth usually pulled for orthodontics. Or it could be that there were traces of the adhesive still left on her teeth, along with "craze lines" - minor cracks that appear in the surface of the enamel after train tracks are removed (having one train tracks removed is very painful by the way!). When I had train tracks, I didn't have any teeth removed as I didn't have crowding, but I still have traces of glue which makes my teeth feel rough and craze lines years later from the removal. Apparently this is normal. My teeth look perfectly normal and healthy, it's only me that can see it when I look very close up or feel them with my tongue.

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  38. #98
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    The duplicate NamUs should be removed now. Here is the link for the updated:

    https://identifyus.org/en/cases/4574

    Note on her image it says her hair may be shorter. Thanks Dr. D. ME
    For I the Lord thy God will hold they right hand, saying unto thee, Fear not; I will help thee. ~Is 41:13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Houston Mom View Post
    The duplicate NamUs should be removed now. Here is the link for the updated:

    https://identifyus.org/en/cases/4574

    Note on her image it says her hair may be shorter. Thanks Dr. D. ME
    Can you clarify for me (tired brain tonight). The 2 NamUs profiles mentioned above, found the same day, were in fact only ONE set of remains?

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    Quote Originally Posted by airplanelamp View Post
    Can you clarify for me (tired brain tonight). The 2 NamUs profiles mentioned above, found the same day, were in fact only ONE set of remains?
    Yes, just one, and although she is drawn with long hair ME recorded 2 inches in length.
    For I the Lord thy God will hold they right hand, saying unto thee, Fear not; I will help thee. ~Is 41:13

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