IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #2

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Btown

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Hope these pics come out ok.

Standing at the side street beside Smallwood, looking up the alley toward the boys appartments.
1551e8y.jpg


Moved forward approx. 1/2 block closer toward his apt. area.
15v809.jpg


Another 1/2 block (approx.)closer to his apt. area.
In the below pic, there is a photographer in the middle of the alley at the top of the hill near the boys apartment pointing his camera my way. I didn't want to go further.
alley2r.jpg


Looking back at Smallwood.
smwd.jpg


There are very few street lights in this alley. The lights that are there are focused on apt. parking areas, not the alley.
 
257055720-08091055.jpg

http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-laur...r-missing-iu-student-20110608,0,1261306.story

Bloomington Police search for missing 20 year old woman
Lauren Spierer, age 20.
She is a white female, 4 feet 11 inches tall, slender build, has blue eyes and long blonde hair. She is listed as a student according to IU Bloomington's website.
Spierer was last seen walking south on College Avenue from 11th Street on her way back to her apartment in Smallwood Plaza, located on College Avenue.
She did not arrive to her apartment and video footage does not show her entering the apartment complex.
Spierer was wearing a white tank top with a loose, light colored button shirt over it and full length black stretch pants. She was not wearing shoes.


Thread #1

Please continue here...
 
IMO things presently look completely different than how they looked earlier in this case..

Earlier, Jesse was in no way involved(appeared this way).. Hardly even part of the case, or so it seemed.. He only becoming part of the case the following day when having texted his girl several times, claiming he was just waiting on Laurens text to say come on over and let's hang out at my apt.. He finally after gEtti g no response contacts LS roomate who says you can come by my class and get apt key to go and see if Lauren's there( don't know the exact specifics of the exchange btwn these two but IMO would be something similar).. Her roomate adored JW.. Thought he was a very loving and caring boyfriend toLS and I'm sure wasn't hesitant to give him the key to their apt..

All seemed well and good as far as JW was concerned and I felt sympathy for his not k owing that his girl was out to early dawn morning hours with another guy, and possibly even another after CR passed out.. Originally I thought JW hadn't a clue most likely what exactly or who exactly Lauren was with..

Now things look so very different IMO WHERE JW is concerned.. Without even so much as a shadow of a doubt that JW was made fully aware of who his girlfriend was with..that this other guy had accompanied LS back to her apt where there was an obvious amount of I appropriate PDA taking place of this other guy with his girlfriend..

You can bet your bottom dollar that if not before,then immediately after his friends got a few licks in on this other guy in the lobby of his girlfriends apt that Jesse knew every detail.. The who.. The where.. The what..

You take that info just learned by a twenty something year old college guy that his number 1 priority in his
Life not only had brought this guy home to her apt.. But *that even after his boys had knocked this other guy around for being out with their best buds girlfriend but she has now left out with the guy and en route to his apt!!!!!

I think anger and humiliation would equal a level of livid thT males ones blood boil and literally shake with overwhelming emotions all at peak force.. Then I'm fairly certain that cell records might show a flurry of calls from JW to LS cell. That unbeknownst to JW Laurens cell is locked up tight at Kilroy's bar.. All JW knows at that moment is this news from his buds about his girl and that she had left with him and now she would not even answer her phone???

I ask now with that info known who all believes that JW kicked back, relaxed and went on to sleep at nearly 3am of that Friday morning?? NOT I! If for no other reason than his pride I do not believe that JW just stayed where he was.. Content to wait til the next day to do or say anything to LUren about what had happened.. The humiliation alone would be plenty enough to spur JW to be outta his apt and en route to where they were.. He could not ne made such a fool of and in front of his buds this to have all happened..nope, not for a moment do I believe that JW did not head out of his apt to where his buds had told him his girl was.. Again his girl that was with another guy that had been seen inappropriately touching Hos girlfriend In public..

Taking it even a step farther I'd say there's a good chance that either by their own choice or possibly after telling JW immediately after the fight about LS/CR leaving together that JW told them to make sure and see where it is the two of them were going.. IMO the likelihood that not only these friends watched LS/CR go 3 blocks to CRs apt but that JW either came there as well or at the very least had direct knowledge of where it was that LS/CR went and were at..

IMO it only seems plausible that JW would have waited to at the very least speak with his girlfriend about what all happened that nite.. He showed up after he learned of the fight. *There is just no way he didnt .

So that leads me all the way back to what it was we first knew of JW.. His saying he'd texted his girl and was waiting to hear back and for the invite ovER to hang at her apt..

IMO now looking at these actions they seem altogether misleading. As In setting the stage for a scenario of his just learning of Laurens late night before...

As I originally stated the moment the altercation came to light.. The answer lies with one of those males that was involved In that fight.. Separate them and grill them til one of them breaks and the beans start spill.. Am not saying one of these boys is directly responsible for what happened to LS but their is atleast one of them thT knows enough to crack the case wide open leading to what hAppened to Lauren and where she was disposed of..

Jmo, tho!
Wow. This makes a lot of sense.

The boyfriend's story suddenly do NOT click at all. How come he was only worried about Lauren on the afternoon?? We all know that his friends DID get into a fight with Rossman. So he KNEW Lauren was with another guy in that early morning. How come he only worried about her ON THE NEXT DAY?

The only way for his story to make sense is if his friends did NOT tell him about CR and Lauren on that night, but waited until the other day to tell him.

But where was the BF? We have not heard his alibi or whereabouts that night. LE would not talk about it either, yet said he was "certainly" a POI.

If LE knew the boyfriend hadn't been with Lauren that night, he would not be a POI. Hinky.

On the other hand, we have two other guys lawyering up.
 
Wow. This makes a lot of sense.

The boyfriend's story suddenly do NOT click at all. How come he was only worried about Lauren on the afternoon?? We all know that his friends DID get into a fight with Rossman. So he KNEW Lauren was with another guy in that early morning. How come he only worried about her ON THE NEXT DAY?

The only way for his story to make sense is if his friends did NOT tell him about CR and Lauren on that night, but waited until the other day to tell him.

But where was the BF? We have not heard his alibi or whereabouts that night. LE would not talk about it either, yet said he was "certainly" a POI.

If LE knew the boyfriend hadn't been with Lauren that night, he would not be a POI. Hinky.

On the other hand, we have two other guys lawyering up.

I totally agree with the above statements. However, I posted something earlier today that I'll paraphrase.

Yesterday, I told my boyfriend the theory about JW's friends telling him what had happened and JW freaking out.

My boyfriend, a former frat brother, completely disagreed with my theory. He told me it's a "man code" to wait until the next day to tell your friend if his girlfriend is cheating on him (or suspecting such). That way cooler heads prevail. He seemed fairly confident that most of the guys he knows would agree.

Personally, I'd think to the contrary, but hey, I'm not a guy!
 
Since I'm local, I went looking for the "Alley Cam" that shows Lauren at 3am. This is the last location that she can be proven to have been.

Actually there are several camera's. All of them are at 10th & the alley. 3 of them have tinted covers. You can't tell where they point, or if they are real. 3 of them are old school "box" camera's.

2 of the box cameras point directly at the alley. If you go up the alley there is no way to avoid them.

This is 1 block before they "got to the boys apt."


2 Box cams center, circled in red are unavoidable if your walking up the alley. I did not circle the box cam to the right, since it points toward College.
There is no way to tell where the tinted camera on the left is pointed.
2jcu0pl.jpg


Tinted cameras probably point at the fenced in pool, but there is no way to know if they are real, or where they point.
r2jiab.jpg
 
Her keychain was found the next day near an alleyway behind a building about
100 yards from Rossman’s building.

IU student AJ Amin, 19, told The Journal News Friday that he saw a small
purple pouch with a gold key shortly before 3 am that morning on the
sidewalk near that building. He said he left it there and that a friend of
his put it on a railing when he saw it there a few hours later.

“I didn’t know they were hers,” said Amin, who had not yet given his account
to police.

http://www.lohud.com/article/20110610/NEWS02/106100365/Rossman-missing-Lauren-Spierer-not-last-person-her-?odyssey=nav|head
 
...Also, if his friends DID wait until the next morning to tell him, that would explain how persistent he was in looking for Lauren.

Just a theory! (And not one I necessarily agree with!)
 
I totally agree with the above statements. However, I posted something earlier today that I'll paraphrase.

Yesterday, I told my boyfriend the theory about JW's friends telling him what had happened and JW freaking out.

My boyfriend, a former frat brother, completely disagreed with my theory. He told me it's a "man code" to wait until the next day to tell your friend if his girlfriend is cheating on him (or suspecting such). That way cooler heads prevail. He seemed fairly confident that most of the guys he knows would agree.

Personally, I'd think to the contrary, but hey, I'm not a guy!

I remember reading that from you and that's why I said maybe they waited! But, they were drunk... who knows.
 
IMO things presently look completely different than how they looked earlier in this case..

Earlier, Jesse was in no way involved(appeared this way).. Hardly even part of the case, or so it seemed.. He only becoming part of the case the following day when having texted his girl several times, claiming he was just waiting on Laurens text to say come on over and let's hang out at my apt.. He finally after gEtti g no response contacts LS roomate who says you can come by my class and get apt key to go and see if Lauren's there( don't know the exact specifics of the exchange btwn these two but IMO would be something similar).. Her roomate adored JW.. Thought he was a very loving and acting boyfriend toLS and I'm sure wasn't hesitant to give him the key to their apt..

All seemed well and good as far as JW was concerned and I felt sympathy for his not k owing that his girl was out to early dawn morning hours with another guy, and possibly even another after CR passed out.. Originally I thought JW hadn't a clue most likely what exactly or who exactly Lauren was with..

Now things look so very different IMO WHERE JW is concerned.. Without even so much as a shadow of a doubt that JW was made fully aware of who his girlfriend was with..that this other guy had accompanied LS back to her apt where there was an obvious amount of I appropriate PDA taking place of this other guy with his girlfriend..

You can bet your bottom dollar that if not before,then immediately after his friends got a few licks in on this other guy in the lobby of his girlfriends apt that Jesse knew every detail.. The who.. The where.. The what..

You take that info just learned by a twenty something year old college guy that his number 1 priority in his
Life not only had brought this guy home to her apt.. But *that even after his boys had knocked this other guy around for being out with their best buds girlfriend but she has now left out with the guy and en route to his apt!!!!!

I think anger and humiliation would equal a level of livid thT males ones blood boil and literally shake with overwhelming emotions all at peak force.. Then I'm fairly certain that cell records might show a flurry of calls from JW to LS cell. That unbeknownst to JW Laurens cell is locked up tight at Kilroy's bar.. All JW knows at that moment is this news from his buds about his girl and that she had left with him and now she would not even answer her phone???

I ask now with that info known who all believes that JW kicked back, relaxed and went on to sleep at nearly 3am of that Friday morning?? NOT I! If for no other reason than his pride I do not believe that JW just stayed where he was.. Content to wait til the next day to do or say anything to LUren about what had happened.. The humiliation alone would be plenty enough to spur JW to be outta his apt and en route to where they were.. He could not ne made such a fool of and in front of his buds this to have all happened..nope, not for a moment do I believe that JW did not head out of his apt to where his buds had told him his girl was.. Again his girl that was with another guy that had been seen inappropriately touching Hos girlfriend In public..

Taking it even a step farther I'd say there's a good chance that either by their own choice or possibly after telling JW immediately after the fight about LS/CR leaving together that JW told them to make sure and see where it is the two of them were going.. IMO the likelihood that not only these friends watched LS/CR go 3 blocks to CRs apt but that JW either came there as well or at the very least had direct knowledge of where it was that LS/CR went and were at..

IMO it only seems plausible that JW would have waited to at the very least speak with his girlfriend about what all happened that nite.. He showed up after he learned of the fight. *There is just no way he didnt .

So that leads me all the way back to what it was we first knew of JW.. His saying he'd texted his girl and was waiting to hear back and for the invite ovER to hang at her apt..

IMO now looking at these actions they seem altogether misleading. As In setting the stage for a scenario of his just learning of Laurens late night before...

As I originally stated the moment the altercation came to light.. The answer lies with one of those males that was involved In that fight.. Separate them and grill them til one of them breaks and the beans start spill.. Am not saying one of these boys is directly responsible for what happened to LS but their is atleast one of them thT knows enough to crack the case wide open leading to what hAppened to Lauren and where she was disposed of..

Jmo, tho!
This has been my thought ever since we heard she had a BF. Something def does not add up. Seems awfully convenient for him to say "I texted her in the morning" to cover his butt and make it seem like he hadn't heard/seen her at all. Like I posted earlier...why would her not responding to a text make him so suspicious that it was urgent for him to go get the roommate's key to the apartment while she was in class. How does he know she's not just sleeping off the booze? I want to know if he is seen coming and going from the apt in the videos that day.

Perhaps he could be totally innocent, but something seems hinky.

Does anyone local know the approx area of where Lauren's BF lives?
 
...Also, if his friends DID wait until the next morning to tell him, that would explain how persistent he was in looking for Lauren.

Just a theory! (And not one I necessarily agree with!)

That makes a lot of sense. I guess it's a "either or" scenario... Maybe the boyfriend had something important the next day and his friends didn't want to disrupt him during the night.
 
Did you guys see photos of the boyfriend though? And of Lauren and him together? They seemed SO happy. I hate to be suspicious of him... he REALLY looks like a good guy. That "teddy bear" type guys... So sad for everyone involved.
 
I saw a report that Carl had turned in his video to the police.

I just took a walk to 10th & College. His camera's don't point at the street. They point at his parking lot, on the other side of the street than she should have been.

I took pics of the apts. & businesses at 10th & College. I looked closely for cameras in them. There is one camera. Its on the outside of the businesses, not pointed at the street. I'll post pics momentarily.

I have not walked the alley looking for video yet. Give me time...

Apts. @ 10th & College. Looking from the Law Office of Carl Saltzman. Just out of site behind the guy is a security camera.
5edcwh.jpg


Security Camera at 10th & College.
20qx6gz.jpg


View of what the camera would see. Looking up toward the direction Lauren would be coming from.
2rc8ug3.jpg


10th & College apts and business looking down toward 10th & College. This is the (reported) direction Lauren would have been walking when last seen.
33wwshi.jpg

Hope these pics come out ok.

Standing at the side street beside Smallwood, looking up the alley toward the boys appartments.
1551e8y.jpg


Moved forward approx. 1/2 block closer toward his apt. area.
15v809.jpg


Another 1/2 block (approx.)closer to his apt. area.
In the below pic, there is a photographer in the middle of the alley at the top of the hill near the boys apartment pointing his camera my way. I didn't want to go further.
alley2r.jpg


Looking back at Smallwood.
smwd.jpg


There are very few street lights in this alley. The lights that are there are focused on apt. parking areas, not the alley.


I brought these over from the other thread because they're too good to leave behind. Thank you, Btown. ;)
 
OK, stupid question - Has LE confirmed that ALL apartments and public spaces (i.e. broom closets, equipment rooms, etc...) in the area have been thoroughly searched? I ask because I recently watched an episode of the new TV series, 'First 48: Missing Persons'. In the program, a college student who had been out late at night drinking went missing (it was Illinois University @ Chicago). Long story short, he was found approximately 1-2 weeks later (cannot recall exactly how long) in one of the dorm rooms/apartments on campus, having died from alcohol/drug intoxication.

With this gal's medical condition, I am thinking that this is a plausible scenario. Perhaps she went somewhere yet unrevealed and fell asleep, but never woke-up.

Personally, I could not believe that someone would be missing within a dorm/apartment complex for that period of time because I assumed that all areas were searched thoroughly. But, it apparently wasn't in the UIL case.
 
I have had the same thoughts as CuriousGirl.
The news and known facts point in that direction.

Based on the 4 out of 10 POI, this is what I'm understanding and thinking(please correct or fill in the details or loose ends):

1) Corey Rossman
a) CVS Witness says Rossman seemed to be groggy but no visible signs of being punched. So is Rossman exagerrating his injuries and memory loss? If so, why?
b) Was Rossman aware that LS's phone was left at Kilroy's?
It seems VERY odd to me that she left it there. Today a cell phone is a continuous lifeline for young ladies... a break in communication is immediately a red flag. Someone maneuvering to separate a woman and her phone would be a premeditated act.
c) His roomate is Mike Beth Correct? Is this the Young Man that "put him to bed?" According to the CVS witness Mike Beth sounds like a follower that would conspire to protect Rossman. I agree about separating all POI's and grilling them for inconsistencies. Having a Lawyer should not interfere with a police investigation.

2) Mike Beth
a) Why did police refer to this person as "Young Man" instead of by name?
b) Why isn't Beth's statements about LS leaving very extensive or public?
c) Why didn't Beth walk LS to her apt? Who in their right mind would let a drunk 100lb 4'11" woman walk alone in the middle of the night even in barefoot hoosierville?
d) Everyone is pussyfooting around about "drugs" if they had pot or other substances, who was using what? Did MB, CR and LS smoke up at CR/MB's apt?

3) Jay Rosenbaum
a) I've seen references that JR was good friends with CR. Has this been verified? If so, it would seem his statements about LS leaving would be highly suspect. The theory of a conspiracy between CR/JR/MB (even if not to cover up what happened to her, to simply protect themselves) seems to be a high probability. Is there anything to refute this?
b) Why did LS stop at JR's? I've not seen him disclose the reasons... to talk? Sex? drugs?
c) Was JR in CR's apartment the same night that LS disappeared? This could be another reason for DNA - to place who was where that night.
d) Why did JR also not walk LS home?
e) Did MB and JR see each other when LS went from CR's to JR's?

4) Jesse Wolff
a) Who is / are JW's friends that stopped and punched CR at smallwood?
b) Why was JW not with LS on such a night after classes had just ended in this small college town if they were so close? Some have said and assume there was a fight, but I have seen no official statements about that.
c) LE would have a very clear pattern of calls and texts between JW and LS.
was the pattern broken?
d) LE would have the texts between JW and LS and between JW and his friends and others that night - these texts should lead somewhere.
e) GPS coordinates of JW's phone, and phone tower pings for JW and everyone else could also show movements of anyone conspiring to either cover up evidence, withhold information or be in the vicinity of where Lauren was last seen on video.
f) Exactly how long is the time gap between when LS was last seen and
when someone first reported her missing?
g) (I'm assuming it was JW that first reported her missing - is that true?)

5) JW's friends who confronted CR at smallwood
a) Did JW's Friends those friends contact JW after that incident in any form?
b) Did they see LS?
c) Apparently these friends are not on the blacklist at smallwood... so do they live there? Do they work there? Do they have access to videos? Are they security?
d) How many of these JW friends were there?

Other loose ends...
1) I've heard it said now a few times that there was PDA's between LS and CR. Is there an official statement about that?


The most common motives for murder are emotional. The love triangle thing is very high, if not tops on the list. My gut feel is that JW should be the prime suspect here because given the information and facts released so far (and as observed by CuriousGirl who seems to understand the typical 20 something male brain pretty well) point to JW jumping conclusions and possibly overreacting. If JW has friends that would punch someone in the face, he too could easily be violent. On the other hand, if CR is lying about the extent of the altercation, what would be his motive? If CR/MB/JR had something to do with LS's demise they might try to cover it up by making more out of the altercation than actually occurred such that JW's friends or JW could be implicated. The very odd fact remains that CR claims no memory, MB and JR didn't walk her home, MB is silent, and JR is the last one claiming to see her alive.

Then, there is the body. What would anyone do with the body in this short time interval? If it was JW he would have plenty of time. If he had friends involved they could ditch the body while he develops a concrete alibi. The friends could say they were with each other. If CR/MB and/or JR were with her at death they clearly have it all worked out and would have had hours to do something with the body. In any case... what woudl anyone do with a body that small and not wanting to have much time missing? I think it's highly likely that the body is within a 1/2 hr of where she was last seen. Being so small it could have been put into a bag, backpack, box, suitcase, etc... It is possible because of it's size that it's still very close by. People immediately start searching lakes and such, but something like this could very easily be buried or hidden in plain site and possibly at risk of being moved later. obviously car trunks, lockers, storage rooms, under a tarp, etc... 100 lbs is very small and even smaller after bodily fluid loss.

The car snatch theory and other stranger abductions seem unlikely giving the people and events of this night. I'm leaning 80% to one of these POI is directly involved and 20% that it's someone connected to them. Less than 1% chance of a stranger involved in this one. Thanks for your help clearing my questions and/or correcting any details I may have wrong.
 
If one of the POI's is involved, it seems unlikely that they would have access to a place to keep Lauren alive...

I hope that having lawyers does not = stop talking to police, in this case.
 
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