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  1. #31
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    One in the same. he is gone.
    tybee
    Welcome to the World Baby Caleb!!!

  2. #32
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    EUGENE MARTIN also Des Moines, IA missing since 12 Aug 1984

    A very closely matching crime to the Johnny Gosch kidnapping is that if the abduction of Eugene Martin, also a newsboy, also of Des Moines, Iowa. Eugene was on his paper route early in the morning of 12 August 1984. He was seen talking to a white male who was "about the age of his father". There was nothing suspicious about it, but in a matter of twenty minutes, Eugene disappeared and has not been seen since.
    Usually, Gene delivered the papers with his older stepbrother, but on this occasion, he was alone.
    Eugene got up that morning at 4:30 and left the house at 5:00. Between 5:45 and 6:05, he was seen folding papers and talking to a man on teh corner only a few blocks from his house. Between 6:10 and 6:15, the bag was on the ground with 10 folded papers in it and Eugene was gone. When calls came in to the paper manager that people were missing their morning newspapers, the manager went out, found the bag and delivered the papers. He did not start looking for Eugene again until 8:40AM. Classic case of someone finding something obviously wrong, but not thinking it was important enough to mention.
    Some investigators feel that the two cases (Gosch and Martin) are connected, but there is no physical evidence to link the two.

    ------------------
    EUGENE MARTIN
    Non-Family Abduction
    DOB: Aug 17, 1970
    Missing: Aug 12, 1984
    Age at time missing: 14
    Age Now: 34
    Sex: Male
    Race: White
    Hair: Brown
    Eyes: Brown
    Height: 5'0" (152 cm)
    Weight: 110 lbs (50 kg)
    Missing From: DES MOINES, IA, United States

    Eugene was last seen between 5:30-6 a.m. as he was delivering newspapers. A paper bag was found outside of Des Moines with papers still inside. He has a scar on his right knee and has had a broken right wrist.

    ANYONE HAVING INFORMATION SHOULD CONTACT
    National Center for Missing & Exploited Children
    1-800-843-5678 (1-800-THE-LOST) or
    Des Moines Police Department (Iowa) - Missing Persons Unit - 1-515-283-4864 Or Your Local FBI

    Link
    http://www.missingkids.com/missingki...archLang=en_US

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by tybee204
    One in the same. he is gone.
    tybee
    Thanks tybee. I don't mind if we all disagree here. We can disagree AND RESPECT eachother's opinion at the same time. Being so frustrated and getting angry doesn't help to get our opinions across. I'm guilty of getting too emotional on WS at times, but I hope I never step over the line of slamming someone's opinions for the sake of stating mine.

    Johnny Gosch is an interesting and sad story. There was one other boy that was linked to being the same kidnapper. I cannot remember his name. Also there was one that was never linked. I'll see if I can pull up the particulars on them. Very tragic all around. If these were my children; I could only wish them to be in a better place "heaven"; rather than tortured for their entire lives. Nothing could be worse.

    EDITED: As I was contemplating the names; I see Richard has posted the one "linked" child so I will look for the others.

  4. #34
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    Aug 2003
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    You may want to read this link as well. AN OPEN LETTER TO NOREEN:
    http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin...mes;read=37115

    http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin...mes;read=37118

    SOUNDS like some credible people attempting to help her. I understand the email's in Johnny's site no longer work. Maybe Noreen is starting to realize that she may have been used. Who knows.

    HERE'S ANOTHER MISSING IOWA CHILD THAT WASN'T CONNECTED. I'D BET HE IS:

    http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/34dmia.html

    Johnny missing 1982; Eugene 1984; Marc 1986 all from Des Moines; Polk County Iowa. Makes me mad that they LE; have not connected all 3 of these boys. All 3 boys caucasian; brown hair parted on the side. All from same area. Some freak taking boys every 2 years. Wonder if there is another pattern somewhere else in the states; every 2 years with missing young caucasian boys... this guy could have set up shop somewhere else.

  5. #35
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    I see a possible link between the 3. Maybe someone can look at surrounding states too. Blueclouds, your links seem to say it all about this Gundersen character. Poor Noreen Gosch, as if she hasn't been through enough. I will say a prayer for her.

  6. #36
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    Marc Allen missing Des Moines, IA 1986

    Quote Originally Posted by blueclouds
    HERE'S ANOTHER MISSING IOWA CHILD THAT WASN'T CONNECTED. I'D BET HE IS:

    http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/34dmia.html

    Johnny missing 1982; Eugene 1984; Marc 1986 all from Des Moines; Polk County Iowa. Makes me mad that they LE; have not connected all 3 of these boys. All 3 boys caucasian; brown hair parted on the side. All from same area. Some freak taking boys every 2 years. Wonder if there is another pattern somewhere else in the states; every 2 years with missing young caucasian boys... this guy could have set up shop somewhere else.
    An interesting case that does seem to have similar elements to the disappearances of Johnny and Eugene. The Doe Network file only states that he went to visit a friend and was never seen again. Unlike Johnny and Eugene, he was not seen with an older man or men - at least not according to the very short write-up in the Doe file.
    It is odd that the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children (NCMEC) does NOT have Marc listed in their data base. Anybody know why that is? It would be nice to know more about his case.
    If the perpetrator of each of these crimes is the same person, it would seem a bit odd for the spacing to be two whole years apart, unless jail time intervened. Perhaps a careful look at similar victims in other states in and around that time would show a pattern. While some pedophiles will go for only one sex, race, size, and age range, others are not as particular.
    It is of note that Johnny and Eugene were taken on paper routes, which are very predictable and regular and in the early hours. An abductor can simply wait his chance anywhere along the route. It is likely that the abductor or abductors watched these boys for a long time before they were taken. Could that have been the case with Marc as well? Did he make a regular trip to his friend's house? If so, a house along that route may have been the residence of the perpetrator.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by tybee204
    One in the same. he is gone.
    tybee
    AHA!!! How did BC and I know??
    Thats some websleuthing!!!!!!!!!!!



    Quote Originally Posted by BlueClouds
    I don't mind if we all disagree here. We can disagree AND RESPECT eachother's opinion at the same time. Being so frustrated and getting angry doesn't help to get our opinions across. I'm guilty of getting too emotional on WS at times, but I hope I never step over the line of slamming someone's opinions for the sake of stating mine.
    I agree and I think we all should try to follow that(I know I do! Ok I at least TRY to! )


    Seriously,I agree Johnny's abduction is very likely connected to other abductions in the area and Im more than happy to pursue that and learn more but I just want to keep the conspiracy"black helicopter" stuff out of it!!
    The saints are the sinners who keep trying...

  8. #38
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    Richard; there are many cases of kidnapped children that are not in NCMEC databank. I understand the procedure is that LE has to send in the file. I also understand RE: Suzanne Davis/Tonya and a possible link of "Jennifer Klein" - that Jennifer Klein is not in the database of NCMEC as well.

    I wish all cases of abduction were listed in there. There is very little information regarding Marc's disappearance all around. I am speculating that his case was not "connected" to the two other boys as not to cause a panic in the community. It was probably dealt with quietly as most child kidnapping cases were back prior to 1990 or so.

    Frustrating to say the least.

    BTW: Messiecake; I wonder what gave it away hummmm?!!! I agree that we keep the MIB's out of the conversation. I believe that would be for another more "eclectic" message board.

  9. #39
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    Oct 2004
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    I just wanted to follow up with some of the questions in regards to Johnny visiting his mother 14 years after his abduction. I have located court transcripts from Paul Bonacci's case in which he was awarded I believe a Million Dollars from Larry King for sexual abuse ( Franklin Cover-Up Larry King, not CNN personality). In this transcript Noreen talks about the visit and says that she asked to see the boy in questions chest. Her son Johnny had a large birth mark on this chest, and after showing this mark she was convinced it was indeed her son. This thing just keeps going folks, so much information and terrible things that happened to these kids. Johnny still can't come home because his life and his families lives are in great danger. I have made requests for this story to be done in a televised forum. HOpefully something good can come from all these terrible things.

  10. #40
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    I have since heard as well Miles that this Franklin King guy is a professor in Utah. I believe it's the same one. or maybe it was another guy who was part of all this crap. Either way; I cannot believe a college hired some pervert like that.

    Something like a birthmark can be faked. There was a case with that Amy woman who went missing on a cruise ship. The "investigator" took the family for over 250,000 grand after supplying a "fake" picture of Amy & her tattoo sitting on a beach. It was a scam.

    I don't believe that any of these boys are alive any longer. There are many SAFE PLACES he could go to if he was. Many people would protect him. The fact that this is the one and only time she saw this person leaves me skeptical. I think Johnny is dead; as sad as that is.

    Conspiracy's are just that. A conspiracy. VERY few children that are kidnapped remain alive for any amount of time.

    Very sad all around.


  11. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by miles_draken
    Johnny still can't come home because his life and his families lives are in great danger. I have made requests for this story to be done in a televised forum. HOpefully something good can come from all these terrible things.
    I think what bothers me most is that if Johnny is so scared he cannot come home, and other people have been silenced, why would he risk his whole family's lives by talking to his mother at all? If other people have been silenced, why hasn't his mother been silenced? The scenario make no logical sense if Johnny is in such danger (as he would be if he had been involved with slavers). That would mean the scenario goes like this:
    "I am so scared I will be killed if the slavers find out where I am and what I am doing. I'll go visit my mother, who will write all about my story, because she loves me and wants me to be safe and home, and she will be in no danger at all from that."


    Or can someone come up with something that actually does make sense that I'm just not seeing here? Why would anyone in fear of his life knowingly endanger his entire family, then leave?

    Did his mother think "I'll write all about my meeting Johnny. The slavers who kept him imprisioned and under their control for the past 20 years won't think anything of it, then my whole family will be safe, and Johnny can come home."
    Just the facts, Ma'am.

  12. #42
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    Johnny came to see his mother in the early morning hours out of the blue with no prior contact and stayed only an hour and a half. He was there primarily to give her names, which she in turn took to the police and claimed to get form an informant, they did nothing. I can understand this story is a bit unbelievable, but I recently read the testimony transcript in the Paul Bonacci civil trial in which he was awarded 1 million from Larry King. If you know about the Franklin Credit Union Scandal then you know what I'm talking about. I'll try to get the link for the transcript, it's worth the read and pertains directly to this case as Noreen testifies. If more of us accept this is going on in our country the harder it is going to be for these sort of perpetrators to continue their evil ways.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostwheel
    Did his mother think "I'll write all about my meeting Johnny. The slavers who kept him imprisioned and under their control for the past 20 years won't think anything of it, then my whole family will be safe, and Johnny can come home."
    I think Ghost; that his mother SO WANTED TO BELIEVE in anything. THEN when the "conspiracy groupies" got ahold of her, she fell into their trap. I have worked with NUMEROUS parents of missing & murdered children. Trust me; at their lowest point - you can make them believe anything because they so desperately want to believe. It gives them a piece of their child back. I'm so positive that Johnny & the other 2 boys (or more) from Iowa are dead that I'd bet my home & worldly possessions on it.

    There are more good guys than bad in the LE, FBI etc that they would know about a slave group out there.

    UHHHGGGGGG very frustrating and very sad. Just wish his body was found so this can be put to rest.

  14. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by miles_draken
    I'll try to get the link for the transcript, it's worth the read and pertains directly to this case as Noreen testifies.
    I would like to read that. Thank you for the effort.
    Just the facts, Ma'am.

  15. #45
    Either senario- whether Johnny is alive or not is pretty horrific, under the circumstances............. I would be interested to read the transcript though.

    What baffles me about the whole thing is the conviction of Johnnys mother. Whatever happened, she REALLY BELIEVES she saw her son after all that time and that he is in some kind of trouble. She has written books about it, appeared on endless talkshows, given seminars and testified under oath in court. It is such a lot of effort for something that is untrue, yet it sounds so far-fetched.

    I don't know what to think............

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