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Thread: OH - Dobbstown "Belle In the Well" WhtFem (UP6259), 30-60, In Cistern, Apr'81

  1. #26
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    IIRC Ashland and Huntington are very close together. Like 15 miles or something like that.

    ETA: I can't find dobbstown OH in google maps either but the article CarlK posted said it was the area "Greasy Ridge Rd & McKinney Creek Rd" which is about 118 miles I think from Ashland. (area is south of there is described as Dobbstown). At least as far as I can tell.

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  3. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donjeta View Post
    The ruleouts list has changed from Kat's post. Paulette Jaster has been removed and Ellen Akers added.
    Looks like there are 193 or so rule outs now.

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  5. #28
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    Just north of Chesapeake, OH there is a McKinney Creek Road...which I'm guessing more or less follows McKinney Creek, the area near where she was found. If you look on the map, Huntington, WV and Chesapeake, OH are right across the Ohio River from each other....just a quick trip across the bridge. I am thinking that she used that train ticket, got to Huntington, and then met with trouble there. But Ashland, KY is really close to this general area too. The problem is, I can find NO one who makes a whole lot of sense to be this person, from OH, KY, TN, IN, WV, or VA. Wondering if 1) she wasn't ever reported missing, or 2) She was from further away and the train ticket was from only one leg of a much longer journey.

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  7. #29
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    Ashland, Kentucky to Huntington, West Virginia is 15 miles and about a 30 minutes drive.

    You can go across the Ashland Bridge into Ohio to get on US Route 52 to get to Huntington. Or you can take US Route 23 in Ashland to Catlettsburg and either take US Route 60 or Interstate 64 to Huntington.

    From 1974 to 1998, there used to be an Amtrak station on US Route 23 in Cattletsburg, Kentucky. The Catlettsburg Amtrak station is now abandoned and Amtrak moved the station to Ashland in 1998.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashland...Amtrak_station)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilltopper_(Amtrak)

    There still is a Greyhound Bus Station in Ashland, Kentucky today.

    I believe the Huntington Herald Dispatch article said that the unid had a bus ticket from Ashland to Huntington and a key to a locker at the Huntington Greyhound Bus Station.

    But it is possible that the unid victim could have taken either the bus or train between Ashland and Huntington.

    I also want to point out that Ashland and Huntington are near Interstate 64. So the unid victim could have come from anywhere.

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  9. #30
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    Question Could this be her?

    A trucker by the name of Edward A. Surratt confessed to the murder of Linda June Hamilton in 2007 while living in FL. She has been missing since September 20, 1977 from Beaver Township, Mahoning County, Ohio. I wonder if he took I77 south heading towards I64 and disposed of her. He declared in an interview that Linda Hamilton's and "Ranee Gregor's bodies "another victom", were "unrecoverable by anybody's standards".

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  11. #31
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    A new article on this case...

    http://www.irontontribune.com/2012/0...E2%80%99-case/


    Leads followed in ‘Belle’ case
    Published 9:22am Tuesday, May 15, 2012

    Clay model sparks interest

    Law enforcement continues its detective work as it tries to find the identity of the woman now referred to as the “Belle in the Well.”

    In 1981 the remains of a woman was pulled from a cistern near Dobbstown, her body weighted down with concrete blocks tied to her with panty hose. An autopsy performed at the time showed that the body could have lain in the cistern as long as 1979.

    Since no one came forward at the time her body was found authorities surmised she was homeless. The body was found with a bus ticket and a key to a Greyhound Bus Terminal locker. Two years ago, County Coroner Dr. Kurt Hofmann put the data from that autopsy into National and Missing Unidentified Persons System to see if there would be a match with any missing women listed. In June the woman’s body was exhumed to take DNA samplings to add to that data.
    The article mentions they are looking at Sheila Gail Wears Pierce who went missing from Point Pleasant in West Virginia on 24th June 1978. I could not find Sheila on Doe Network or NAMUS however there a picture and details here on the West Virginia Police website - http://www.statepolice.wv.gov/missin...px?personid=17


    Sheila Pierce
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 10-09-2012 at 11:25 PM. Reason: Replaced image with retouched version

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  13. #32
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    She doesn't fit too closely to BITW's description. She is too young, too tall, and doesn't appear to have buck-teeth.

    But it's interesting to see new cold-case MP's not listed in the usual MP sites.

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  15. #33
    I am curious about the amount of clothing this woman was wearing:

    Dark pullover sweater covered with a lightweight shirt. On top was a heavy red cable-knit sweater.

    Gray slacks (although I've also seen it reported as blue jeans)

    Light-colored lightweight sock on right foot covered by heavyweight red sock.


    Doesn't that seem like a lot of heavy clothing? It makes me think this person was expecting to be outdoors and wanted to stay warm. Dressing in layers like that makes sense if you intend to strip off layers as the day gets warmer.

    Maybe this could be a clue to the time of year when this woman disappeared - cold enough for layers of clothes, but not cold enough for a coat or jacket?

    FYI, there are now 231 rule outs on NamUs for this woman.
    Last edited by Marilynilpa; 06-11-2012 at 11:52 AM.

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  17. #34
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    interesting. at the documents section of the UID's namus profile is the death certificate. I don't remember seeing that on any of these cases, but I can't say I've looked for it particularly.

    at the time of her autopsy, the coroner's office estimated the date of her death to be November 1979.

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  19. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by webrocket View Post
    interesting. at the documents section of the UID's namus profile is the death certificate. I don't remember seeing that on any of these cases, but I can't say I've looked for it particularly.

    at the time of her autopsy, the coroner's office estimated the date of her death to be November 1979.
    I was surprised to see the death certificate also.

    Usually when I check the "documents" on NamUs, there aren't any. The death certificate is a helpful tool, I wish it was included on all the unidentifieds.

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  21. #36
    One of the articles posted here mentions that at one time LE thought Belle might have been affiliated in some way with a motorcycle group/gang because of the rubber bands on her arms. They said that motorcyclists sometimes use rubber bands to keep their sleeves from flapping around.

    This made the wonder again about the amount of clothing this woman was wearing. If she had been riding on a motorcycle, that might account for the layers. If she had hitched a ride with someone on a motorcycle, she might have worn layers to keep warm.

    I wonder if there were any motorcycle gatherings, rallies, etc. in the area during the time period Belle wound up in the cistern.

    Motorcycles are more mainstream now, but in the 70's and early 80's there were a lot of unsavory motorcycle clubs.

    On different note - was it ever mentioned who owned the property on which the cistern was located?

    What are the chances that someone just stumbled upon a cistern while looking for a place to dispose of a body?

    Also, one article mentioned the two girls saw something floating in the cistern, and this led to Belle's discovery. I wonder if the cistern was open, or if the two girls opened it.

    I think I'm overthinking the whole cistern thing!
    Last edited by Marilynilpa; 06-13-2012 at 12:15 AM.

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  23. #37
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    I am curious about the bus ticket and locker. Was the locker ever checked or looked into? I have never ridden Greyhound or know about their rates (ie per mile, per destination, etc) but I had always thought they were the type you would take from, say Chicago to Atlanta. Not a way you would take to get across town to work.
    These towns are all VERY close. A friend (who apparently hadn't gotten around much) was super-excited that we were in three different states within about 15-mins. We're from KY and crossed the Sandy to Huntington (WV), then the Ohio IMO Chesapeake (OH).
    That is why I don't understand why you would get a Greyhound (I thought to be a long-distance service) ticket for such a tiny distance. But if the locker was not checked then, it would be impossible to know what she/whoever had in it. That info would likely lead to her identity, or at least provide more clues.
    Last edited by bflocket; 06-14-2012 at 07:46 PM. Reason: Spell

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  25. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarlK90245 View Post
    Sandra Flynn Fisher was last seen only 20 miles away in Russell Spring KY. (I can't find a Dobbstown OH in Google Maps, but Chesapeake OH is the city listed in NamUs).


    http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/...er_sandra.html
    https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/2236/1

    Her listed height (5'4") is within an inch of the 5'3" estimate, and her listed weight 150 is within the 130-150 lb "Living weight" estimate (In the Circumstances Section of the NamUs UP casefile).
    Although S Fisher is pictured wearing earrings, they look like clip- ons - her hair is dark but dyed blonde which often fades to reddish,could this be Buckskin girl?

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  27. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by dotr View Post
    Although S Fisher is pictured wearing earrings, they look like clip- ons - her hair is dark but dyed blonde which often fades to reddish,could this be Buckskin girl?
    No way, IMO. Her head is too wide at the cheeks, her nose is too small, and her chin too strong.

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  29. #40
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by bflocket View Post
    I am curious about the bus ticket and locker. Was the locker ever checked or looked into? I have never ridden Greyhound or know about their rates (ie per mile, per destination, etc) but I had always thought they were the type you would take from, say Chicago to Atlanta. Not a way you would take to get across town to work.
    These towns are all VERY close. A friend (who apparently hadn't gotten around much) was super-excited that we were in three different states within about 15-mins. We're from KY and crossed the Sandy to Huntington (WV), then the Ohio IMO Chesapeake (OH).
    That is why I don't understand why you would get a Greyhound (I thought to be a long-distance service) ticket for such a tiny distance. But if the locker was not checked then, it would be impossible to know what she/whoever had in it. That info would likely lead to her identity, or at least provide more clues.
    I was thinking the same thing about the bus and wondered about the locker myself. Why hold on to the key to an empty locker??? I would only hold on to it if I left my suitcase or other belongings in there!! Greyhound is used to travel around here, not for small commutes between area cities!!
    Where are they and how do we get them home? The smallest bit of information can make all the difference in the world!!

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  31. #41
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    Thoughts on Belle in the Well

    On the death certificate, the coroner estimated that death occurred 18 months to 2 years prior to the body being found April 1981 in the cistern.

    If the coronerís estimate is correct, it would place the death having occurred between April 1979 to November 1979.

    During the 1960ís and 1970ís, a lot of LE agencies back then didnít take a missing person report if the missing person was an adult. LE agencies simply told folks reporting a missing adult that the missing person was an adult that can go anywhere they want and LE couldnít do anything about that situation.

    I took a look at the DeLorme map of the Ohio back roads. According to the map, Greasy Ridge Road & McKinney Creek Road is a rural curvy back road deep in the hills of Southern Ohio.

    I think itís doubtful that a semi truck would travel on a curvy rural backwoods county road away from a main highway.

    I also think itís doubtful someone from outside the area would be looking for a cistern deep in the backwoods to dispose of a body. I believe it had to be someone who was familiar with that area, and probably lived or worked in that area.

    There have been thoughts by LE that the victim was a homeless person or was a member of a motorcycle gang based on the clothing that was worn.

    Two thoughts concerning the bus ticket and the locker key comes to mind.

    One thought is that the victim could have been a drug courier that came from somewhere else. Another thought is that the victim could have been escaping from an abusive relationship and/or was a victim of domestic violence.

    That could explain why the body was found weighted down in the cistern and the dentals in Namus regarding the facial trauma.

    Also, the Jerry Falwell commemorative coin that was found was found with the victim could indicate the victim may have come somewhere from the Bible Belt region in the United States.

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  33. #42
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    in all probability this UID is NOT Linda Hamilton. I rechecked the profiles and Linda now has DNA on file (does not say where though) and the UID has both nucDNA and mtDNA with the Univ of Texas so I would venture a guess that these were not a match.

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  35. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by webrocket View Post
    here is an interesting possibility although the weight is off.

    Jeanne Marie Scrima was last seen near Erie, PA in March 1980, was 5'3" and weighed 118 lbs. this interesting narrative is found in the DN profile:

    Scrima's light blue 1977 Lincoln Continental was discovered abandoned several weeks after she was reported missing. It was seen in Ohio, and it passed through several hands in Ohio and ended up abandoned in Michigan on October 5, 1980.

    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/947dfpa.html

    here is her namus page:

    https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/5498/0/

    no reference to her having an overbite or buck teeth, although her front top teeth are visible in the DN page.
    Webrocket - Do you know if Jeanne ever submitted? I don't see her on the list of rule outs.

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  37. #44
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    I never submitted Jeanne. if you care to, be my guest!

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  39. #45
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    There's a new computerized reconstruction of Belle on NamUS: https://identifyus.org/en/medias/full/18922

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  41. #46
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    Those eyes look creepy.

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  43. #47
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    the eyes are poorly done.... no eyelashes & no crease in the eyelid makes for a very odd effect.
    Last edited by tamar; 05-07-2013 at 04:00 AM.
    "Wherever she went, including here, it was against her better judgment."~ Dot Parker

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  45. #48
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    Talk about "Dead eyes!"

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  47. #49
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    What about Juanita Reedy from West Virginia. Height and weight are slightly off but her features look similar, though it is kind of hard to tell with the blurriness of the photo.
    https://www.findthemissing.org/en/ca...=circumstances

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  49. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marilynilpa View Post
    One of the articles posted here mentions that at one time LE thought Belle might have been affiliated in some way with a motorcycle group/gang because of the rubber bands on her arms. They said that motorcyclists sometimes use rubber bands to keep their sleeves from flapping around.

    This made the wonder again about the amount of clothing this woman was wearing. If she had been riding on a motorcycle, that might account for the layers. If she had hitched a ride with someone on a motorcycle, she might have worn layers to keep warm.

    I wonder if there were any motorcycle gatherings, rallies, etc. in the area during the time period Belle wound up in the cistern.

    Motorcycles are more mainstream now, but in the 70's and early 80's there were a lot of unsavory motorcycle clubs.

    On different note - was it ever mentioned who owned the property on which the cistern was located?

    What are the chances that someone just stumbled upon a cistern while looking for a place to dispose of a body?

    Also, one article mentioned the two girls saw something floating in the cistern, and this led to Belle's discovery. I wonder if the cistern was open, or if the two girls opened it.

    I think I'm overthinking the whole cistern thing!


    I submitted Julie Ann Derouin

    http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2319dfab.html

    as a possibility for this doe.

    She is an exact match in height - 5'2" (or 63 inches)
    She disappeared sometime in 1979 or early (January) 1980

    I think she is a good possible match mostly because of her affiliation with the Ghost Rider Motorcycle Club. As mentioned by Marilyn (above) LE thought the UID was affiliated with a motorcycle club based on the two bands found on her arms.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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