Is Casey A Skillful Liar?

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aeneas1

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it's amazing to me that the talking heads, and media in general, continue to refer to casey as a skillful, adept and convincing liar - i just don't get it. casey is a pathological liar, not a skillful liar, big difference. in fact she has to be one of the least capable and clumsiest liars i've ever heard of.

sure, she fooled those that believed in her and cared about her, such as family and friends, but that was easy, the deck was stacked in her favor, love is blind. but the moment she tried a different audience on for size, i.e. law enforcement, when her lying skills were put to the test, she failed miserably, epochly, not even close. heck, her lies were so poorly developed one would think they were the brainchild of a preteen. comical if not so sad.

in fact casey is not only an ineffective, clumsy liar but she is also an ineffective, clumsy crook as evidenced by the manner in which she stole from amy, her grandparents and her parents - thefts that could easily be detected.

what makes casey unique is not that she's adept at lying or stealing, because she's not, not even close, she's actually bad at it. what makes her unique is that she couldn't care less if she gets caught. at worst, getting caught to casey is nothing more than a temporary inconvenience. at best it's something she can talk her way out of, something that will blow over, or something that she might even get away with. sitting at the defense table, cuffed, she still thinks the same. she's in for a rude awakening.
 
IMO, her lying isn't the issue. She's been caught. It's her inability to tell the truth.
 
Baznme said:
IMO, her lying isn't the issue. She's been caught. It's her inability to tell the truth.
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and her inability to accept responsiblity for her actions/inactions..JMHO

Justice for Caylee
 
Listening to her lie on the fly in her taped interviews, it amazes me that she can remember and keep them straight.
 
Ricki said:
Listening to her lie on the fly in her taped interviews, it amazes me that she can remember and keep them straight.
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I think that's exactly why the talking heads call her skillful. Yeah, those taped conversations and interviews are actually what drew me into the case--I couldn't believe how she came up with such believable details to bolster what were, on the whole, unbelievable lies. I mean, you tell someone a nanny took your kid but you don't know her phone number? That's unbelievable. You tell them the nanny is 5'2", 140 pounds, doesn't have a tattoo because you've seen her in a swimsuit, changed her name when her mother remarried, and lent you her hair straightener? (And all the other details I can't remember . . .) Well, I think it takes some skill to come up with that level of detail on the fly.

I mean, obviously the big lie itself wasn't a great one; of course the police dispelled it quickly. But if I knew Casey or was related to her, I'd probably find it hard to believe she'd made all this stuff up, too. Actually, I know I would--I'd be thinking, "well, it looks like Casey doesn't have a job, but she just spent an hour telling me what she did today, what the receptionist was wearing, and what her coworker was talking about in the break room. There's no way she's lying!" I may be gullible, though.
 
LiveLaughLuv said:
and her inability to accept responsiblity for her actions/inactions..JMHO

Justice for Caylee
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And also, IMO, by the time she stole Amy's checks she just didn't give a dam* anymore. She was living in the moment and didn't care/or didn't fathom that there would be consequences. I mean she had already done something much much worse by then---kill Caylee. So who cares, I'll just start stealing my friend's money.
 
I don't even give out that much info and I tell the truth.

The amount of detail was crazy.
 
fla*mom said:
I don't even give out that much info and I tell the truth.

The amount of detail was crazy.
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I kind of think that is what liars do though-- give a lot of detail because they think that if they give details, their lies will seem more believable.
 
She makes mistakes in the consistency of her stories, but she is very good at changing courses on a dime.
Things like (this is not a real quote)
"I'm at Starbucks with Jane."
"But I was just there and didn't see you."
"I didn't mean we're in Starbucks. We're next door picking some clothes out for Jane's sister Susan. Then we're headed to Starbucks."
"The clothing store next to Starbucks closed last month."
"Oh, I know. We're just sitting in my car looking at a catalog Jane brought. My coworkers Jill and Betty just walked by and waved."
"I didn't see your car in the parking lot."
"That's because I'm driving a company car. It's a Honda."

She contradicts herself all the time, but comes up with something really quickly that makes it very hard to keep track of exactly what she had said before. I bet she hates to see any of her statements written out on paper.
 
aeneas1 said:
it's amazing to me that the talking heads, and media in general, continue to refer to casey as a skillful, adept and convincing liar - i just don't get it. casey is a pathological liar, not a skillful liar, big difference. in fact she has to be one of the least capable and clumsiest liars i've ever heard of.
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Agree. Plus she's typicle of a bad liar in that she thinks adding 'detail' to a lie makes it believable. It doesn't. At least, in my personal expierience, once you realize a person is a pathological, cunning, devious lier, you can diferentiate between lies & truth by the amount of detail provided.
Something else that annoys me is how she is constantly refered to as 'intelligent'. She's not. She's stupid. Extremely stupid. What she is, is devious. A person can be both stupid & devious at the same time.
 
davehead21 said:
I kind of think that is what liars do though-- give a lot of detail because they think that if they give details, their lies will seem more believable.
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You are right about that. And when listening to it all in the beginning and then hearing CA retell it when she was on the stand it kinda sucked you in and I had to keep reminding myself "These are all lies! These people don't even exsist!"
 
I remember reading on a statement analysis site that the more detail that is inserted is usually an indication of a lie. ICA is sure big on the details.
 
STEADFAST said:
She makes mistakes in the consistency of her stories, but she is very good at changing courses on a dime.
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This is a great example! She also throws a temper tantrum or says the equivalent of "But you don't LOVE me!" to distract/change the subject.

But, I also think her lies are easily disproven (isn't this a word--why are the red squiggles under it??) (by anyone wishing to investigate-which LE did immediately). "I work here." "The nanny lives in THIS apartment." That's why her lying isn't so skillful.
 
STEADFAST said:
She makes mistakes in the consistency of her stories, but she is very good at changing courses on a dime.
Things like (this is not a real quote)
"I'm at Starbucks with Jane."
"But I was just there and didn't see you."
"I didn't mean we're in Starbucks. We're next door picking some clothes out for Jane's sister Susan. Then we're headed to Starbucks."
"The clothing store next to Starbucks closed last month."
"Oh, I know. We're just sitting in my car looking at a catalog Jane brought. My coworkers Jill and Betty just walked by and waved."
"I didn't see your car in the parking lot."
"That's because I'm driving a company car. It's a Honda."

She contradicts herself all the time, but comes up with something really quickly that makes it very hard to keep track of exactly what she had said before. I bet she hates to see any of her statements written out on paper.
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well done, exactly.

Ricki" said:
I remember reading on a statement analysis site that the more detail that is inserted is usually an indication of a lie. ICA is sure big on the details.
Click to expand...
yes she is... from her first interview:

q: she (juliette) in your sim card? (very simple question posed by ocso deputy):

a: no she's not. some of them are recent numbers. her number changed because she just moved back up north. she... within the last two months has finished moving up to new york. she's sub-leasing her apartment.

she tacks "sub-leasing her apartment" onto the rest of her mumbo-jumbo, classic. of course casey had also just finished telling the deputy that juliette is her co-worker at universal, that they are in the same department, both event coordinators. caught cold in yet another lie... it goes on and on. nothing particularly skillful or impressive about what she spews imo...
 
Item 1 on the BRACE Character Profile:

1. Lies easily, but ineptly --- easy to catch in a lie. Uses simple denial to avoid consequences, generally one lie on top of another without considering the inconsistencies and contradictions; lies are unconvincing, poorly organized and poorly interrelated.

0 = Rarely, Slightly, or Not Characteristic at All
1 = Somewhat, Sometimes, Mildly Characteristic
2 = Often or Frequently or Strongly Characteristic
3 = Very Often or Very Strongly Characteristic
4 = Consistently, Extremely, Core Characteristic
X = No knowledge.

IMO, Casey’s rating: 4

Russell
 
Skilled? No. Extensive? Yes. She never had to develop honed lying skills..her family accepted whatever she said as fact. Her friends even said she would tell fibs that they knew were fibs but they just let it go.
 
I guess that ability to fluently adapt the lie is what seems like a skill to many of us. If I lied to someone about being in Starbucks, and that person said "But I was just in Starbucks, and you weren't there," my response would be "oh, uh, all right, I'm actually still at home in my pjs but didn't want to admit it." I'm intelligent, but I wouldn't be able to quickly think up all these new explanations and stories, and I certainly would never be able to keep track of all the imaginary relationships Casey invented.

And to those of us who are not good at thinking these things up, the details in Casey's lies make them seem more believable. If I was Cindy, and hearing this long, involved story about Zanny's accident and medical care, I'd be inclined to believe it because I couldn't have made something like that up out of thin air!!

I realize having followed this case now for a long time that I should view these over-abundant details with more suspicion, but that certainly wouldn't have been the case for me in the past. See, you can learn a lot in Websleuths.

Tink
 
Casey was a pathological liar, but not an intelligent person at all, IMHO. She was only effective at lying to those that didn't challenge her lies or knew that she was lying but never directly CONFRONTED her about her lies. This would apply to her family, her ever changing friends and random co-workers. She used Caylee as a pawn with her parents, so they didn't put her a&$ in check when they should have because they were afraid she would take Caylee and leave their household.

But the minute that she came up against those light years smarter than she was, (LE) it was as apparent as the sun in the sky that she was just a liar. A pitiful, defiant, narcissitic, dumb and scheming liar. There was nothing special about her as a liar. Just a run of the mill, now murdering liar. Plain and simple.
 
My opinion is that, while the talking heads are calling her lies "skillful," what they are usually alluding to is her commitment to the lies that is astounding. To literally be at the end of the hallway at Universal before admitting that she doesn't work there shows a level of commitment that even the most practiced liars would probably admire.

She does have the ability to change her lies "on the fly," but they are not usually effective lies, just more brazen.
 
pip said:
Skilled? No. Extensive? Yes. She never had to develop honed lying skills..her family accepted whatever she said as fact. Her friends even said she would tell fibs that they knew were fibs but they just let it go.
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And this is exactly why we are where we are today. CA and GA accepted her lies as truth. I believe they "suspected" Casey was lying about her job, etc since her "job" at Universal would keep her stealing money, and gas to run around with. Casey had so many different "boyfriends" and anyone to get her out from under her parents' "rule."

Let's talk about Amy. Amy thought Cindy was "crazy", based on what Casey told her about her mother. I think, Cindy was on to her, and the fights started when Cindy realized the monster she was. The more Cindy wanted Casey to "grow up", the "Crazier" Casey thought Cindy was. In Casey's mind, I don't think she understood why Cindy, after all this time, is calling her on the BS NOW!! Hence the jealousy over Caylee.

If Casey was a "skilled", liar she would have used the lies, as she was looking for a "job". Skilled liars use lies to get what they want, before they actually do the work. Casey was a "lazy liar", she wanted people to believe her, without any work.
 
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