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  1. #1
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    Sep 2009
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    FL - Sorrento, WhtFem 412UFFL, 25-35, distinctive earrings, Dec'91

    I checked for the UP and the MP and did not find another thread for either. My apology in advance if this is posted in wrong place.

    Just a note for those who may get frustrated by having to hunt for information in a post. (Count me in !) For religious reasons I must consult with my rabbi prior to putting out information for speculation. The purpose is weighed against the possible personal harm to the family and yes, even to the victim if untruthful or damaging speculation results.

    Any thoughts on this one?
    NamUs UP Case Number: 6031
    Missing person Cathy Jo McCoy
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 03-28-2013 at 06:15 PM. Reason: title/merge

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
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    Mensch,

    Your discretion is commendable.

    I recently was confronted by a family member of a missing person, and I was gently reproached for lacking tact in my speculation.

    The family of a missing person is naturally going to want to protect the reputation of their loved one, as speculation/assumption can morph into rumor/gossip and have a devastating effect socially on the family-- especially if they are from an orthodox background.

    I am certainly determined to use more discernment in the future.

    With respect,

    Tamar
    "Wherever she went, including here, it was against her better judgment."~ Dot Parker

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    El Segundo, California
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    7,854
    I believe that this is the UID to which you are referring:

    The Doe Network:
    Case File 412UFFL
    http://doenetwork.org/cases/412uffl.html
    NamUs UP Case 6031 WARNING: POSTMORTEM PHOTO AT LINK: https://identifyus.org/cases/6031


    Sketch by Barbara Martin

    WARNING: POSTMORTEM PHOTO AT LINK:
    http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/...00x600Q851.jpg

    Unidentified White Female

    * The victim was discovered on December 7, 1991 in Sorrento, Lake County, Florida
    * Estimated Date of Death: Within 12 hours of discovery
    * Cause of Death: Homicide by Strangulation

    Vital Statistics

    * Estimated age: 25-35 years old
    * Approximate Height and Weight: 5'4" to 5'5"; 120-125 lbs.
    * Distinguishing Characteristics: Brown hair with blonde tips; hazel eyes. No scars or tattoos.
    * Dentals: Available; teeth natural and in good repair.
    * Clothing: Hooded sweatshirt. Blue and pink shirt, jogging type bra; unusual gold colored earring with stars and hearts.
    * Fingerprints: Available
    * DNA: Available; CODIS.

    Case History
    The victim was located on CR 433 in Sorrento, Florida on December 7, 1991. She was nude below the waist and was the subject of brutal rape and torture.
    A subject was convicted of sexual battery on victim. Subject denies knowing victim's identity.
    Victim has given birth to at least one child and possibly two children.
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 10-11-2012 at 02:41 AM.

  4. #4
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    Nov 2009
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    7,854
    Mensch:

    Do you know what Cathy McCoy's Date of Last Contact (DLC) is? It is not mentioned on the MP poster.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
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    It looks good match. She was missing on 12/7/91 in WV then, the UID was discovered on same day in FL. The estimate date of her death was 12 hrs prior.

    Could the killer transport her from WV to FL in less than 12 hrs for dispose purpose?

    I agreed with Mensch for lack of info from the missing person's family. It's worth to submit her name with Case File 412UFFL.

  6. #6
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    my first question is that while I can understand the convict not knowing her identity, did he ever say where he picked her up? he is not named in the flyer so it is not so easy to figure out who he was and where he may have operated.

    in terms of her appearance she has a very WASP look to her.

  7. #7
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    Nov 2009
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    The resemblance is pretty close. Ears are very similar (their earlobes are drooped). Eyebrows, while thicker on the MP, are the same shape. They are very similar in the width and upturn of of the bottom of the nose.

    The only things I can see that seem to be different are (1) Cathy's chin seems slightly larger and her jawline narrower (although sometimes this may be the result of unclinched teeth) (2) The bridge of Cathy's nose appears to be narrower. (But this may be the result of lighting).

    I agree with KLCD620 on the timeline. Unless it is a situation where they mistook the DLC for the date that the MP report was filed, that would seem to be logistically implausible. It's approximately 750 miles from WV to Lake County FL. With time for gasoline stops, that's at least a 13-14 to hours. And BTW, I know from experience that you don't even want to go 5 MPH past the speed limit through Georgia.

  8. #8
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    Sep 2009
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    432
    It's a fine line Tamar. I have been away for about a month or more trying to get clear on exactly what I can put out for the public. There are certain cases I cannot put out without question. That is a real problem. There are many great researchers and "eyes" and mind for this kind of work right here and other sites. But I cannot solicit help which lessens the chances of identifying. The ones I am allowed to post I must do so with minimal information to either inform others there is a successful resolution, the case is being reviewed, or there was not a match. This in the hope the case stays alive and generates other researching. The transition from former cop to orthodoxy is more stressful than my anything I have encountered. Thanks for the support. I cannot give up searching if there is any way I can do it in an acceptable way.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarlK90245 View Post
    The resemblance is pretty close. Ears are very similar (their earlobes are drooped). Eyebrows, while thicker on the MP, are the same shape. They are very similar in the width and upturn of of the bottom of the nose.

    The only things I can see that seem to be different are (1) Cathy's chin seems slightly larger and her jawline narrower (although sometimes this may be the result of unclinched teeth) (2) The bridge of Cathy's nose appears to be narrower. (But this may be the result of lighting).

    I agree with KLCD620 on the timeline. Unless it is a situation where they mistook the DLC for the date that the MP report was filed, that would seem to be logistically implausible. It's approximately 750 miles from WV to Lake County FL. With time for gasoline stops, that's at least a 13-14 to hours. And BTW, I know from experience that you don't even want to go 5 MPH past the speed limit through Georgia.
    There is an "ify" date, but there is definitely a lag in reporting that would leave the driving time a non-issue. It is not clear of the location picked up. I am with you on the time of driving and I agree with you on the drive through Georgia. I prefer using the air space over that state to driving!

    Okay, I see what you mean by the clinching the mouth. Do you think there is enough of a difference or how much do you contribute to angle and/or lighting?As to the Cathy's nose appearing more narrow, that can be explained by the nature of the passing.

    Generally speaking, I do not consider time lines, meaning distances missing from and when found but this one is a problem for me. I think it is important to know where the UP was picked up and at what point she was left. How far did this man drive before deciding he was dropping off a passenger?

  10. #10
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    Sep 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by webrocket View Post
    my first question is that while I can understand the convict not knowing her identity, did he ever say where he picked her up? he is not named in the flyer so it is not so easy to figure out who he was and where he may have operated.

    in terms of her appearance she has a very WASP look to her.
    This is one case I really want to know the details but dare not wander off in that area. The long trip makes absolutely no sense to me unless he picked her up just before getting to the destination. If so, then perhaps she had a specific location she was headed. It is difficult to comprehend the evil in such cases.


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by KLCD620 View Post
    It looks good match. She was missing on 12/7/91 in WV then, the UID was discovered on same day in FL. The estimate date of her death was 12 hrs prior.

    Could the killer transport her from WV to FL in less than 12 hrs for dispose purpose?

    I agreed with Mensch for lack of info from the missing person's family. It's worth to submit her name with Case File 412UFFL.
    There is very little available on the MP. That alone is hard for me to understand. I agree with you on the time last seen and the report. If the time given is 12 hours postmortem, then I am assuming this information was from a pathologist and I trust that information to be correct far more than any le report at any time.

  12. #12
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    The NAMUS entry has a post-mortem photo that looks even more like Cathy than the sketch does. It also has a photo of the dead woman's earring. It's not identical to the one Cathy is wearing in her photo, but it's a similar style, large and a bit flamboyant. I would say it's too close not to call in -- especially since we don't know how firm or accurate Cathy's last-seen date is.
    Opinions expressed are strictly my own (who else would they belong to???)

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by carbuff View Post
    The NAMUS entry has a post-mortem photo that looks even more like Cathy than the sketch does. It also has a photo of the dead woman's earring. It's not identical to the one Cathy is wearing in her photo, but it's a similar style, large and a bit flamboyant. I would say it's too close not to call in -- especially since we don't know how firm or accurate Cathy's last-seen date is.
    I sent in the Namus file with the poster to the coroner, MP agency and recovering agency. This is the first I have seen of the sketch. I did not send and would not use it. Too much is left to personal drawing style and interpretation in an artist rendition and my goal is always to get the file past the first people looking at it.
    Just an example, I did get the opportunity to speak with a sketch artist and inquired about a certain UP. I asked if he compensated for all the restoration work and were there any scars that were there prior to death. His reply: "What restoration?!" The photo of the UP clearly shows a face that took a genius to restore, either digitally or by hands on repair but the artist only captured the shape of the head shape and jaw line. Since there are approximately fifty one facial shapes (variations not counted) then the UP could have been absolutely anyone. There was not any background info on the UP so getting the UP identified depended solely on the artist and he should have known every inch of that UP's face if he wanted her identified. One reason this case is so "ify" is that the UP has had extensive facial trauma that is evident on enhancement of photo but as you say carbuff, it does appear close.

  14. #14
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    Sep 2009
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    According to a state investigator, the date of McCoy's disappearance is unknown to him and at a much later date (unknown) a female family member (also unknown) was to have submitted a swab for mtDNA comparison to be entered in CODIS. It is also unknown if this actually happened and on what date. He did say the resemblance was "sriking" and that he would contact the the ME office (I gave him contact and phone#) and advise me of the outcome of his findings. Probable wait time? Unknown.

    What I knew for a long time was actually confirmed today (among other issues) is that many LE agencies cannot access urls in email. Neither can they access from their computers "social sites" which include Doe, NamUS and other such sites. To the extent they actually SEE and compare these submissions is depentdent on their agency policy for computer access. Niiiice.

    I will follow up via another route and post as I know more.

  15. #15
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    Mar 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mensch View Post
    This is one case I really want to know the details but dare not wander off in that area. The long trip makes absolutely no sense to me unless he picked her up just before getting to the destination. If so, then perhaps she had a specific location she was headed. It is difficult to comprehend the evil in such cases.
    Could it be possible she made it to the city nearest to the area she was found in, alive and under her own steam, possibly by plane? And then met someone who killed her soon after arrival.

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