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Thread: IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #9

  1. #26
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    Be a hero first, Get your defense attorney second.

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  3. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by eqh View Post
    Considering that the OD/hide the body scenario is still on the table...

    I’d like to see an investigative reporter examine the use of cocaine and other hard drugs amongst students at IU. I think that could be a big, interesting story and could potentially shed light on this case. The local Bloomington paper wouldn’t do this... I think they have a vested interest in presenting anything having to do with the University or IU students in a positive light.

    Obviously, we don’t know if any of these kids did coke or if drugs are involved with Lauren’s disappearance but the rumor and circumstantial evidence is strong. And unlike a lot of students, these folks had the money and probably the opportunity to get cocaine if they wanted to.

    And think about this: Given the speculation, if I was a lawyer for one of the P.O.I. (particularly JR or CR) I’d eagerly announce that my client was not taking any sort of hard drugs the night of Lauren’s disappearance – if he could pass a drug test (so I’m guessing they can’t).

    There haven’t been a lot of stories about “what is (was) Lauren like,” I know one came around a few days ago, but have you seen anyone close to this circle say something like “Lauren wouldn’t do coke or narcotics” or “these people weren’t into drugs?”
    Cocaine usage at colleges has been widely researched.

    http://www.upiu.com/health/2008/12/1...5961229978516/

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...drug-use_N.htm

    http://www.justice.gov/ndic/pubs0/660/cocaine.htm

    http://www.theindychannel.com/news/11350543/detail.html


    BTW drug usage is NOT a problem of ONLY those with a high Social Economic background in fact until recently the evidence supported the opposite.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2924306/

    Bottom line is why focus on only ONE possible theory? Why not keep an open mind and say what if..

    they were using drugs and it played a role

    OR

    What if they were NOT using drugs


    OR

    What if they were using drugs but it did NOT play a role?

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  5. #28
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    If they were doing drugs how could they NOT have a role?

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  7. #29
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    Yes, if drugs are being used, then they will ALWAYS have a role in what is going on. I don't care how many times they have been used or what types of drugs are used, they have an effect....and I have rarely seen a case where its a positive one.

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  9. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
    Defense lawyer job is to defend/protect their client, not to get to the truth.
    It is not the Defense lawyers job to "get to the truth" that is LE's job.

    If a defense lawyer was to participate in the investigation and did something to incriminate their client then they would have a malpractice suit on their hand.

    Everyone here in America deserves zealous representation whether they are guilty or not.

    It is not up to the defense lawyers to be judge and jury to determine if their client is guilty and thus should be convicted even before a trial.

    What if the lawyer was wrong and read into a "fact"? What if they decided their client was guilty but were mistaken?

    What chance would the client have if their own lawyer was presenting them as guilty?

    I know of a case where a guy confessed to his attorney that he killed someone but the attorney was not allowed to break attorney/client privileged until the person died. The person died and then another crime was solved.

    It does not seem fair but in the big picture it is the only way our legal system can work.

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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyme & Reason View Post
    I could be wrong, but I don't believe that was one of the objects found.

    No jewelry has been found
    . Jewelry she is believed to have been wearing that night has been described and given to searchers.

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  13. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by dmband445 View Post
    If they were doing drugs how could they NOT have a role?
    Maybe they were doing drugs earlier in the evening and they had worn off so what role would they have played if Lauren was walking home and was abducted by a stranger?

    BTW I am a bit surprised that so many here think doing drugs is so much worse than drinking.

    People do not black out when they do cocaine and they do when they are drinking.

    In my book alcohol IS a drug.

    I have been reading about "the boys" disposing of her body if she did drugs they gave her but not if they gave her alcohol.

    Giving either to a minor is illegal.

    One wouldn't call someone who regular buys alcohol for underage kids a "pusher" although they are.

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  15. #33
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    The heat is on

    It seems to me at this point the case is a waiting game. LE knows one (or maybe two) of the POIs are responsible for her disappearance, but they don't have enough hard evidence to make an arrest. They won't release what they know so as to have ammunition for interrogating whoever finally gets named.

    Until they find the body or one of the POIs cracks/makes a mistake, this is a stalemate. No amount of guessing regarding the timeline in this forum will help because we don't know the real timeline, only LE does.

    In the longer term, I think Mama and Papa Spierer are going to make a serious attack in civil court.

    For the one who continues, failure becomes impossible.

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  17. #34
    To a local:

    I was reading that psychic investigation board that was linked here. Not that I believe anything on there but there was some posts about the athletic area between Woodland and 10th.

    What if Lauren started not feeling well and decided to walk to the IU health center (Jordan and 10th).

    It's a hike but maybe she would feel safer heading that way than going to the hospital which is not a great area to walk to.

    It doesn't open until 8 but is there a way to contact someone in an emergency there? Like a house phone?

    I guess my question is have other security cams been looked at outside of the immediate area to see if she was seen elsewhere?

    Another thought maybe she went to walk to JW's house?

    I am pretty sure I read that the Walnut street cams were looked at and I guess past Walnut it is too residential to have security cams.

    Or how about on the way to CVS? It opens at 6 am maybe she went there to get medicine?

    Are there web cams there?

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  19. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
    Defense lawyer job is to defend/protect their client, not to get to the truth.
    I wish I could thank this 100 times!!!

    While it would be nice if POIs would all go on the record with what happened, it is not in their best interest and it doesn't help Lauren as police already have their stories.

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  21. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glaucon View Post
    In the longer term, I think Mama and Papa Spierer are going to make a serious attack in civil court.
    Now that would be interesting.

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  23. #37
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    kemo
    I've been away for a week and haven't really kept up. I've caught up now and it seems the investigation has hit an "impasse".

    Realistically, college students often party hard, stay out late, do drugs and sleep around but they rarely kill each other and those rare killing virtually never involve a conspiracy. I would expect that BPD would have been thinking "sexual predator" early in the game. I suspect there was some reason that they did not believe JR. Were there conflicting statements, did he appear evasive or not credible? Did someone else contradict his version of events? There must be something. Otherwise more effort would be placed on a identifying that "predator" and the account of anyone who last saw her before 4:15 would be pretty much irrelevant now.
    This is just a hunch, but I bet one of the other POI's passed a poly saying JR was the last to see LS, thus ruling out the other POIs, while JR left town and hired his expensive lawyer.

    I also keep thinking about the cars. LE searched CR's car...maybe JR borrowed it in the wee hours of Friday? Maybe they wanted DNA samples to match to hairs they may have found in the drivers seat and/or trunk? Maybe there were blonde hairs in the trunk along with someone elses they needed to match? It would be something if they found LS and JRs hair together....but who knows.
    “I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.”
    ― Franklin D. Roosevelt


    Gabriel Johnson and Sylar Newton. Come home safely Gabriel Johnson! RIP Sweet Sylar.

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  25. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by shockedandappalled View Post
    To a local:

    I was reading that psychic investigation board that was linked here. Not that I believe anything on there but there was some posts about the athletic area between Woodland and 10th.

    What if Lauren started not feeling well and decided to walk to the IU health center (Jordan and 10th).

    It's a hike but maybe she would feel safer heading that way than going to the hospital which is not a great area to walk to.

    It doesn't open until 8 but is there a way to contact someone in an emergency there? Like a house phone?

    I guess my question is have other security cams been looked at outside of the immediate area to see if she was seen elsewhere?

    Another thought maybe she went to walk to JW's house?

    I am pretty sure I read that the Walnut street cams were looked at and I guess past Walnut it is too residential to have security cams.

    Or how about on the way to CVS? It opens at 6 am maybe she went there to get medicine?

    Are there web cams there?
    The IU health center is quite a hike from 10th and College, it isn't 24 hours, and I don't think there's any sort of special phone there. There is a large athletic field at 10th and Woodlawn but if she was walking along 10th street at the University it is a pretty exposed area (and even getting to Woodlawn is a bit of a hike if she was messed up). I agree it is within the realm of possibility that she turned left on 10th street to head somewhere else, though. I doubt she'd be heading to a store since she presumably didn't have any money on her after she lost her purse.

    http://www.bloomingtonsecuritycameras.com/map.html shows no security cameras along 10th past Walnut, that might or might not be accurate. I'd imagine the University buildings would have at least a camera over their main entrances.

    One thing about this area: There's an arboretum next to these athletic fields that used to be the site of a football stadium. An old ticket office remains, it has long been boarded up. Is it possible that a body could be hidden there and not yet found?

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  27. #39
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    Ok, I give up. I have searched everywhere. Does anyone know WHERE JW lived? I can't find it anywhere. I have an address for him for 2010, but these students all move around a lot so I don't know if it is correct.

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    eqh

  29. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmomom View Post
    Ok, I give up. I have searched everywhere. Does anyone know WHERE JW lived? I can't find it anywhere. I have an address for him for 2010, but these students all move around a lot so I don't know if it is correct.
    GREAT question.

  30. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glaucon View Post
    It seems to me at this point the case is a waiting game. LE knows one (or maybe two) of the POIs are responsible for her disappearance, but they don't have enough hard evidence to make an arrest. They won't release what they know so as to have ammunition for interrogating whoever finally gets named.

    Until they find the body or one of the POIs cracks/makes a mistake, this is a stalemate. No amount of guessing regarding the timeline in this forum will help because we don't know the real timeline, only LE does.

    In the longer term, I think Mama and Papa Spierer are going to make a serious attack in civil court.

    That's exactly what I also think. Your analysis makes sense.

    I am also convinced that JW has nothing to do with it and it is silly for some to even suggest so. He was the one who reported LS missing to the police. People who are guilty dont go to the police as he did. He must feel terrible for her disappearance and it is unfortunate that he was even considered a POI (as all boyfriends/husbands do in cases of disappearance), but he is obviously unrelated to the whole thing. Otherwise, he would not have gone to the police or initiate the search, as he did

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  32. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by British View Post
    That's exactly what I also think. Your analysis makes sense.

    I am also convinced that JW has nothing to do with it and it is silly for some to even suggest so. He was the one who reported LS missing to the police. People who are guilty dont go to the police as he did. He must feel terrible for her disappearance and it is unfortunate that he was even considered a POI (as all boyfriends/husbands do in cases of disappearance), but he is obviously unrelated to the whole thing. Otherwise, he would not have gone to the police or initiate the search, as he did
    I don't think it was him either, but you can't rule him out just because he reported her missing. It actually would be a pretty smart move by him if he did do anything.

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  34. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blythe View Post
    Be a hero first, Get your defense attorney second.
    You would never advise your own child to do that. Why would you encourage your kid to put themselves in harms way. It is easy to say 'if my kid was involved, I would do this or make him do that'. Fact is, none of us are in this situation so we can not say with any degree of certainty what we would do other than protect our child.

    An earlier poster mentioned people trying to interject their personal experiences into the decision making process. That is impossible. People like to say that a suspect would never do this or that, but no one knows. Criminals do not think like law abiding citizens. I know I worked with them for nearly 20 years. They are stupid and make illogical decisions that many times put them at risk of getting caught or cause them to get caught.

    I have heard people say regarding the OJ case, 'no one would kill the mother of their child.' RIGHT I had a prisoner from a wealthy family that blew his wife away in the front yard in front of their two children.

    I am not saying these friends intentionally killed her, but they were involved either by supplying her drugs, alcohol or hiding her death and body. The odds of an undetected stranger abduction is very very low. There are very few abduction overall and of those it is rarely a stranger abduction.

    I don't believe folks in Bloomington or anywhere else for that matter should be living in fear. There are no more abduction today than there were 50 years ago. Due to 24 hours news and the internet, it is just covered more.

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  36. #44
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    People who are guilty dont go to the police as he did.
    Really, you believe that? Sociopaths think they are smarter than the rest of us. You would not believe how many of these self absorbed college kids having sociopathic tendancies. I am not saying JW did anything, but to think he is not involved because he reported her missing is very naive. He was covering his @ss.

    He knew if he didn't report her missing that it would look suspicious. Who else other than the roommate would have or should have known she wasn't where she should be?

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  38. #45
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    Observer 33, we have different life philosophies.

    I'm tired of speculating when there is so much information left unsaid. We can speculate for weeks more but it is likely going to take a confession or at least some straightforward responses.

    The Spierers' appeals are right on. "Shame on you". Someone needs to be hero.

    Foremost she must be found. Tick tock.

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  40. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Observer33 View Post

    I don't believe folks in Bloomington or anywhere else for that matter should be living in fear. There are no more abduction today than there were 50 years ago. Due to 24 hours news and the internet, it is just covered more.
    I disagree. And this fall when my daughter goes back to IU the first thing myself and the other moms of the girls in her house are going to do is install an alarm. The landlord said no even though the girls offered to pay. If we have to we will get legal representation.

    There is absolutely no reason why they should not have an alarm installed.

    http://www.areavibes.com/bloomington-in/crime/

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  42. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Observer33 View Post
    Really, you believe that? Sociopaths think they are smarter than the rest of us. You would not believe how many of these self absorbed college kids having sociopathic tendancies. I am not saying JW did anything, but to think he is not involved because he reported her missing is very naive. He was covering his @ss.

    He knew if he didn't report her missing that it would look suspicious. Who else other than the roommate would have or should have known she wasn't where she should be?


    Yes, I absolutely believe that in the particular case. The only way he could be theoretically involved is if he somehow was in rage and went to meet her at 4.30 AM. But if that were the case, he would not have a clear mind to try to hide things like that. This possibility makes no sense and my guess (just my guess) is that he has been already eliminated as a suspect by LE, but they would not report that, as they have no hard evidence against other suspects/POI.

    To me JW is essentially a victim of this case, as he lost his girlfriend for which he apparently cared a lot and then his name came up as POI. There is nothing linking him to the events of that night. He was nowhere near LS that evening based on timeline of events and the recorded videos and there is no evidence of any sort that he met with her at any point. The only thing we know for sure is that he was the one who initiated the search the next AM when he did not hear from her. To me it is obvious that he had nothing to do with the case.

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  44. #48
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    Conclusions:

    Higher adolescent SES [socioeconomic staus], as measured by parental education and household income in adolescence, is associated with higher rates of binge drinking, marijuana and cocaine use in early adulthood.

    This study offers evidence that wealthier students may be at risk for substance use problems in the future, particularly for binge drinking, marijuana and cocaine use. As previous evidence shows that students with more spending money might be more likely to engage in substance use into adulthood, access to allowances and other forms of spending money may be issues that parents can address if they are concerned with the possibility of substance abuse among their children.

    Snipped
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2924306/

    RESULTS:

    The lowest reported levels of average monthly spending money were associated with reduced levels of drinking and getting drunk. Spending money was independently associated with experiencing alcohol-related consequences caused by a student's own drinking, even after the authors controlled for personal drinking behaviors.

    Snipped
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19433396

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  46. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmomom View Post
    Ok, I give up. I have searched everywhere. Does anyone know WHERE JW lived? I can't find it anywhere. I have an address for him for 2010, but these students all move around a lot so I don't know if it is correct.
    there are some addresses found here (monroe) https://mycase.in.gov/default.aspx

    but not sure if it's latest address.

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  48. #50
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    the white truck

    glad they found the white truck, I still suspect something odd about it, glad i dont have to look at it anymore, wondering about the 3:38 witness. LE may have all the pieces set for something and the reason they are winding down the PR campaign...IMO, all POIs have been identified and now it's a just dig in and investigate type situation for them. of course they will still want to look for a body, (i always like to hold on to a hope that someone that is missing could be alive, is possible), but the main suspects are now being combed over.

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