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  1. #1
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    Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #15

    Starting a new thread here and updating the rules of engagement. From this point forward TOS and posting policies will be enforced.

    Please do a review of the rules here: The Rules - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

    and pay particular attention to this thread: Best Practices Dealing with your fellow posters - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

    If you have any questions or concerns, let me or one of the other mods know.

    Thank you for your cooperation and may this appeal be concluded soon

    Salem

    ETA: Please thank this post to indicate you have reviewed the rules before posting in this thread.
    Last edited by KateB; 05-18-2015 at 02:12 AM. Reason: repair url tag.

  2. #2
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    While searching for these flip-flops, I found this again:

    Mr Bonassi also told the court that on two separate occasions in October an intruder was seen in the garden of the house they all shared, once by Ms Kercher and once by a male flatmate. They were unable to identify him.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...d-1622481.html

    I remember the last time I mentioned this, no one really talked about it. It's possible that RG was stalking the girl, if this is true. I mean, his being friends with the folks downstairs and his NON-mention of MK's boyfriend in his diary kind of mean something. Just don't know what.
    "If Jodi's lips are moving...if her pen is moving...then she lie, lie, lies!"

  3. #3
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    This flip-flop stuff might be like the bleach receipts, but while searching the mot. report, I found this:

    It was not possible, however, to ask Rudy any questions or receive any reply from him.
    [389] Rudy, who had been asked to testify, refused to reply and the defence [teams] of the defendants did not consent to giving testimony.
    The recording fragment of a conversation produced by Raffaele Sollecito’s Defence and which apparently took place with a certain Debenedetti gives evidence of the
    364
    acquaintance between Rudy and Meredith and the presence of the former in the house when Meredith was killed; in that conversation mention is made of the blood and of the glass in Romanelli’s room which Rudy claims not having seen that night. These references however are vague and, lacking in confirmation and details, seem to be of little use. There remains, however, the fact that Rudy, around 23.00 pm on 1 November 2007 was in the house on Via della Pergola 7 and was there because Amanda and Raffaele, closely united and together, had allowed him to enter.


    This must be a reference to the skype call. It's amazing how the judge makes the 3 hour skype call sound insignificant. if it is reference to the skype call, that is.
    "If Jodi's lips are moving...if her pen is moving...then she lie, lie, lies!"

  4. #4
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    "If Jodi's lips are moving...if her pen is moving...then she lie, lie, lies!"

  5. #5
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    So I read more of the Messai report and now I'm interested in all the footprint stuff.

    So they think RS's left foot was on the pillow (in shoes), and his bloody left foot was on the bathmat (no shoes). (both lefts correct?)

    They say Amanda was in the bathroom, and all evidence in the bathroom comes from recent activity including the dried blood on the faucet which could only come from her pierced ears since she had no cuts on her body. (and since she said she had an infected ear she addressed that morning).

    How big was that bloodspot? Because I've never, ever seen an ear bleed enough to drop blood on a faucet. If it was teeny tiny I guess I could believe it. But it seems to me that smore likely to be old blood.

    As for the footprints... if they were luminol positive as the result of showering I would expect both feet to show up, which they don't. Only the right one floursced, correct? (Please fact check) I know they said the flourescense was quite weak. If it was a result of becoming bloody by being at the murder scene I would expect there to be more evidence in the murder room.

    The report states that Amanda washed her foot in the bidet to rid it of blood as meredith's blood was in the bidet. They say DNA evidence could only have occurred there with quite a lot of cells, so she must have really scrubbed her feet in there. (however, using the bidet as it was intended would by it's nature leave a lot of cells).

    If the belief is blood was washed off into the bidet, and there is a bloody male footprint there... then it seems to me that it is more likely that someone was washing blood off their leg, or pants, and took off their shoe (so their shoe would not get wet), putting the foot in diluted bloody water, then putting the foot down and leaving the bare foot mark. This could be said of Rudy or Raf. Amanda could have had blood on her leg and rinsed it off in the bidet as well, then her foot would begin to weakly flouresce at that point.

    However, if we are saying you can leave dimly flourescent footprints from having your foot in diluted bloody water, then it also makes sense that someone taking a shower in a room where a killer cleaned themselves of blood, could have unknowingly put their foot in highly diluted bloody water, leaving only a few footprints.


    I find bloody and cleaned up footprints the least likely scenario because how could they not have noticed the bloody footprint on the bathmat? If you have 7 hours to clean up a murder scene (starting your day by playing itunes at 5:35 to get ready to do so), one would expect you to be quite thorough. If you weren't done and didn't want to be interrupted, then don't call Filomena.

    If they were caught WITH a mop and bucket by the postal police... why call Filomena before you have completely hidden all evidence that you were cleaning up the murder scene?

    Lastly, can anyone point me to WHEN Raf's dad made the statement to the police about the sink? When that statement was first logged?

  6. #6
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    Also, the mystery intruder is very interesting.

    I don't know if I said this already, but I would expect a bunch of young people who were all smoking pot to be quite worried about the police coming to their house. I would expect all of them to be concerned about the police finding their contraband and the ramifications of that.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by wasnt_me View Post
    Yes, that is very clearly Guede due to the jacket. And you can see how close his appearance is to MK's. Thanks! To me, this strongly supports the time/circumstances of Hendry's Lone Wolf Guede. I wish the appeal would take this video into account.....

    Guede has told police he was waiting for Meredith on the night of her brutal murder because they had an appointment.
    But the images broadcast by Italian TV news programme Studio Aperto reveal that they arrived home together.
    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...#ixzz1Q6Tidffy

  8. #8
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    @ NOVA:

    Found this new piece this a.m. interviewing Knox's friend, Madison Paxton: and she makes the same point you have made repeatedly:

    As for the prosecution’s sex game crime theory, which paints Amanda as the instigator and the two young men as mere pawns, Madison points out: ”Rudy doesn’t speak English, Amanda didn’t speak much Italian, and Raffaele didn’t speak English. How did Amanda orchestrate this and convince them to do it? Was this the most macabre charade ever? How did she pull that off? Because she could not.

    “I’ve been here seven months. I can order food. I can get around. I could never express my deeper feelings in Italian. I couldn’t possibly convince somebody I’ve known only six days (ndr. as Amanda knew Raffaele) to rape and murder somebody, but that’s the prosecution theory.”
    http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/20...her-innocence/

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by emyr View Post
    So I read more of the Messai report and now I'm interested in all the footprint stuff.

    So they think RS's left foot was on the pillow (in shoes), and his bloody left foot was on the bathmat (no shoes). (both lefts correct?)

    They say Amanda was in the bathroom, and all evidence in the bathroom comes from recent activity including the dried blood on the faucet which could only come from her pierced ears since she had no cuts on her body. (and since she said she had an infected ear she addressed that morning).

    How big was that bloodspot? Because I've never, ever seen an ear bleed enough to drop blood on a faucet. If it was teeny tiny I guess I could believe it. But it seems to me that smore likely to be old blood.

    As for the footprints... if they were luminol positive as the result of showering I would expect both feet to show up, which they don't. Only the right one floursced, correct? (Please fact check) I know they said the flourescense was quite weak. If it was a result of becoming bloody by being at the murder scene I would expect there to be more evidence in the murder room.

    The report states that Amanda washed her foot in the bidet to rid it of blood as meredith's blood was in the bidet. They say DNA evidence could only have occurred there with quite a lot of cells, so she must have really scrubbed her feet in there. (however, using the bidet as it was intended would by it's nature leave a lot of cells).

    If the belief is blood was washed off into the bidet, and there is a bloody male footprint there... then it seems to me that it is more likely that someone was washing blood off their leg, or pants, and took off their shoe (so their shoe would not get wet), putting the foot in diluted bloody water, then putting the foot down and leaving the bare foot mark. This could be said of Rudy or Raf. Amanda could have had blood on her leg and rinsed it off in the bidet as well, then her foot would begin to weakly flouresce at that point.

    However, if we are saying you can leave dimly flourescent footprints from having your foot in diluted bloody water, then it also makes sense that someone taking a shower in a room where a killer cleaned themselves of blood, could have unknowingly put their foot in highly diluted bloody water, leaving only a few footprints.


    I find bloody and cleaned up footprints the least likely scenario because how could they not have noticed the bloody footprint on the bathmat? If you have 7 hours to clean up a murder scene (starting your day by playing itunes at 5:35 to get ready to do so), one would expect you to be quite thorough. If you weren't done and didn't want to be interrupted, then don't call Filomena.

    If they were caught WITH a mop and bucket by the postal police... why call Filomena before you have completely hidden all evidence that you were cleaning up the murder scene?

    Lastly, can anyone point me to WHEN Raf's dad made the statement to the police about the sink? When that statement was first logged?
    good points; hope someone can answer your last question....(edited to "good" points, did not mean to write "goof"!!!)
    Last edited by SMK; 06-23-2011 at 12:21 PM.

  10. #10
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    Not sure what good this will do, but I like these pictures of Amanda:

    Amanda Knox benefit July 8 to feature three bands at Showbox at the Market

    By Steve Shay
    http://www.westseattleherald.com/201...three-bands-sh




  11. #11
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    You know, as an aside, I watched a documentary about Clarence Gideon in high school, and I remember how much it changed my perspective about bad luck. This is the case that gave public defenders to all the indigent. There was very damaging circumstantial evidence convicting Gideon, but then it ended up that there were good reasons for all the evidence convicting him. Between that and the proven stories of false confessions, as well as the Lindy Chamberlain (dingo case), I try to be much more careful making snap judgements. The dingo case is a very intersting one b/c the scientific evidence "proved" that Lindy cut open her daughters neck with a metal piece of the car (blood spatters found in car and on metal). Her husband began to believe she was guilty. Then they found the same piece of metal with the same "blood splatter" in all the other cars (it was rust I think). And they realized the other blood evidence was actually breast milk.

    And then there's that recent death row (and execution) case of the man who was convicted based on the scientific evidence of arson. They recreated the scene and the recreation supported his statements in it's entirety. They still executed him.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by emyr View Post
    You know, as an aside, I watched a documentary about Clarence Gideon in high school, and I remember how much it changed my perspective about bad luck. This is the case that gave public defenders to all the indigent. There was very damaging circumstantial evidence convicting Gideon, but then it ended up that there were good reasons for all the evidence convicting him. Between that and the proven stories of false confessions, as well as the Lindy Chamberlain (dingo case), I try to be much more careful making snap judgements. The dingo case is a very intersting one b/c the scientific evidence "proved" that Lindy cut open her daughters neck with a metal piece of the car (blood spatters found in car and on metal). Her husband began to believe she was guilty. Then they found the same piece of metal with the same "blood splatter" in all the other cars (it was rust I think). And they realized the other blood evidence was actually breast milk.

    And then there's that recent death row (and execution) case of the man who was convicted based on the scientific evidence of arson. They recreated the scene and the recreation supported his statements in it's entirety. They still executed him.
    Yes I recall the dingo case and many in the public were on a witch hunt for her, as she represented something different from the feminist agenda at the time. The more you see of these cases gone wrong, the less you trust that justice is objective. Not a pleasant feeling, to have lost much of one's faith that the system works well most of the time.

  13. #13
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    Here's a different You Tube site that purports to show MK walking home:

    YouTube - ‪Meredith Kercher's arrival home at 8:51 p.m. Nov 1, 2007‬‏



    I don't know if this is the same as wasn't_me's link to The Sun above. That link gave me a "too busy" message when I tried it.
    Last edited by KateB; 05-18-2015 at 02:12 AM. Reason: repair url tag.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nova View Post
    Here's a different You Tube site that purports to show MK walking home:

    YouTube - ‪Meredith Kercher's arrival home at 8:51 p.m. Nov 1, 2007‬‏



    I don't know if this is the same as wasn't_me's link to The Sun above. That link gave me a "too busy" message when I tried it.
    This one has the MK part without the RG part. thanx

    ETA:I have seen this one several times, and it is indeed the one which media have pointed out as being "Meredith's last walk home". But 2 things irritate me: 1. they say they know it is MK from the clothes, but I see no color nor distinct type of clothes, just a hood. 2. To me, the figure seems to be slouching toward the left, but moves toward the right. Just always looked odd to me.
    Last edited by SMK; 06-23-2011 at 02:12 PM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMK View Post
    Yes I recall the dingo case and many in the public were on a witch hunt for her, as she represented something different from the feminist agenda at the time. The more you see of these cases gone wrong, the less you trust that justice is objective. Not a pleasant feeling, to have lost much of one's faith that the system works well most of the time.

    I actually think this explains more the earlier discussion about trusting or distrusting juries. My family is in law, and after seeing liar after liar after liar, it is easy to become jaded and think every accused person is guilty. Especially if the initial evidence points to their guilt. The frustration of seeing so many cases of the obviously guilty go free makes you listen less to others when they protest their own innocence. The opposite also holds true. When you then see innocent people found guilty you become jaded in the opposite manner.

    I've seen it go both ways, so I hope I'm open minded. Personally (as I said before) I find eyewitness testimony very problematic, both for proving innocence and guilt. That's why I'm interested in when Raf's father talked about the sink. It's also why I don't put much stock in people's opinions that Amanda and Raf's behaviour wasn't correct.

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