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Thread: IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #11

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    IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #11

    Who's Who in the Lauren Spierer case

    Btown's map





    http://www.lohud.com/article/20110615/NEWS02/106150373

    Re: the photo released Wednesday, 06-15-2011, of Lauren leaving Smallwood Apartments the evening of June 2, 2011.

    http://www.idsnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=81929



    http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-laure...,1261306.story

    Bloomington Police search for missing 20 year old woman
    Lauren Spierer, age 20.
    She is a white female, 4 feet 11 inches tall, slender build, has blue eyes and long blonde hair. She is listed as a student according to IU Bloomington's website.
    Spierer was last seen walking south on College Avenue from 11th Street on her way back to her apartment in Smallwood Plaza, located on College Avenue.
    She did not arrive to her apartment and video footage does not show her entering the apartment complex.
    Spierer was wearing a white tank top with a loose, light colored button shirt over it and full length black stretch pants. She was not wearing shoes.


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    Last edited by bessie; 06-26-2011 at 11:52 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garden Variety View Post
    The LoHud article states that Mrs. Spierer believes only one of Lauren's friends has come forward with info to give LE.

    Wow. I'm frankly stunned by the sheer volume of alleged friends with broken moral compasses.
    This article really helps put their mentality in perspective. I know the argument of late was about them being "kids" or not. I have my own opinion on that, and age doesn't determine maturity IMO. To me, all the young people at war, dying for our freedoms, in college, and starting marriages and families so young are "kids" in a sense. Many are not fully mature with an understanding of older adults IMO. But, no one has to take my word on that...the article explains it more clearly. What's important to me, is her poor family, and finding her.

    From the article:
    Five of those who've been involved in the investigation — Jesse Wolff, Lauren's boyfriend; and friends Corey Rossman, Mike Beth, Jay Rosenbaum and David Rohn, who all saw her during the last few hours before she disappeared — have retained lawyers...
    ...lying — or hiring a lawyer, like Spierer's fellow students in Indiana have done — during a critical investigation could have disastrous results on a victim's family and the case.
    http://www.lohud.com/article/2011062...news|text|News
    I just can't help but think about her poor family. Protecting someone else over finding someone who could have easily been YOU! Look closely at those "friends" you are protecting people. See how easily they would let you waste away somewhere while they go on with their lives?! I hope you have the courage to come forward...don't wait. There's no reason to wait. Every hour that passes that you don't come forward with what you know is one more hour YOU are guilty in your soul, and you know it.
    Last edited by kissdegirl; 06-24-2011 at 10:10 AM. Reason: forgot link
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    Virtually everything we know has been told to us by HT and then rehashed through LE. Since HT hasn't added any info to the story, LE hasn't either. It appears to me that if HT hadn't gone public with her version of the time line we wouldn't know any of the players involved. So I wonder who HT feels loyalty to, based on the article posted earlier she may be reluctant to reveal all she knows out of the desire to protect those that she feels may be most culpable. She also has a reason to conveniently exclude herself from the story of the evening, even if she has no idea what ultimately happened to LS.

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    I've seen cases where "kids" much younger than these have found the strength to talk come forward to the police or other adults if they have knowledge about a crime...it's not about age, IMO.
    Just my opinion, of course.

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    I don't agree that all we know came from HT. We also got a lot of info from CR's lawyer, completely independent from HT.
    Just my opinion

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  11. #6
    A comment about peoples' suspicions of the "friends" cooperation or participation in searches...

    HT, JW and DR have all participated at one point or another in volunteer searches. HT and DR have spoken on camera to news media. JW has spoken to LS's parents.

    I have seen no report that JR, CR or MB has participated in searches. CR has spoken (a brief, seemingly prepared statement) on camera to news media. JR and MB have not. None have spoken to LS's parents. While one might not expect CR and perhaps especially MB, who had barely met LS and of course don't know her family, to have done so, especially after retaining counsel who may have advised against it, LS's father has made that point especially about CR, who of course was the last confirmed seen with her.

    To me, there is a clear difference between these two groups. Yet, much of the continuing suspicion here seems directed especially at the former group. While I believe no one should be 100% above suspicion, I honestly find that attitude hard to understand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cluciano63 View Post
    I've seen cases where "kids" much younger than these have found the strength to talk come forward to the police or other adults if they have knowledge about a crime...it's not about age, IMO.
    I get that, and respect your opinion on it. I really like how the professionals interviewed in the article explain the mentality of the group of young adults though, and how it compares to high school kids in general. I don't know what other explanation there could be for only 1 of her 1,000's of friends having come forward with info, KWIM?
    I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.
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    Gabriel Johnson and Sylar Newton. Come home safely Gabriel Johnson! RIP Sweet Sylar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
    I don't agree that all we know came from HT. We also got a lot of info from CR's lawyer, completely independent from HT.
    Did we get any info that we didn't already know, or just confirmation of what we did? I think you may be right though, the altercation with "friends of JW" and CR at Smallwood was elaborated by him. But actually I had read that early on from the family, before they retracted it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyGatto View Post
    Good stuff -- which leads to...

    3p is starting to look suspicious to me. first of all...these kids party late and don't need to be at a job. i bet they all start their day late. ok maybe an early class -- but even there -- it's not like work -- u can miss it if you want. so starting with the caveat that this is a later-waking crowd...3p is more like a noon or 1p in the real world vs. away at college world. they were all up til the wee hours - we know that.

    Sure there should be concern by 3 in the afternoon. BUT THERE HAD TO BE CONCERN EARLER. It's not like in the middle of the day on Friday people suddenly decided Lauren is missing. What was happening at 4am, 5, 6, ...through sun up 7,8,9....
    And at what time was this call to Lauren's phone that was answered at Kilroy's? If I'm trying to get ahold of someone and can't, then the phone is answered by someone who says he's found it, then my anxiety would be reduced.

    My experience is likely true of any college student: If I were to fall asleep at 4:30 after being rather messed up, I'd be up at the crack of 1 pm, even if I stayed at a friend's. Then I'd head over to the Runcible Spoon or Yogi's for breakfast. My day wouldn't have started by 3 and it would be reasonable to not be home yet.

    In the absence of any information, JW might think she hooked up with someone by 3:00 pm, not that she was missing. Doesn't mean that these folks would know about any abduction, but STRONGLY suggests they would think she was in a dangerous state the night before.

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    I'm going to step out here and say something about the type of friendships these are. These kids are cohorts in crime. Literally. They spend their time flying beneath the radar trying to illegally buy alcohol and drugs, or buy it legally and give it or sell it to those who can't. And then they drink together and prowl the streets and bars until the wee hours. That's what they do.

    When you've got a group like this, they're not really friends. They're accomplices. Now that one of them has caused the bright glaring light of the public on their behaviors, they're a bit scared and a bit irritated. As well, I'm sure they do have some affection for her and some strong sense of loss. But they're also covering their criminal behavior and hoping not to get charged for it.

    Except some, like JW and Mike B who weren't in on this whole thing.

    I contrast their social network with strongly religious youth I know - who spend their time bowling until the late night, sitting on the beach in front of a campfire, having game nights with Trivial Pursuit and Charades, all stone cold sober. If one of their crowd went missing walking home from these events, they'd rally and hold vigils and do what they can - anything - to help out. Because that's what they're made of, that's what their friendships are forged with. Love, affection, connectedness beyond using one another for mutual criminal and drugging/boozing activities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kissdegirl View Post
    I get that, and respect your opinion on it. I really like how the professionals interviewed in the article explain the mentality of the group of young adults though, and how it compares to high school kids in general. I don't know what other explanation there could be for only 1 of her 1,000's of friends having come forward with info, KWIM?
    Maybe L's parents need to clarify a bit...and say they are wanting any and all info about Lauren and her friendships, her habits, her routines, etc...people may think they have nothing to contribute to the night of June2/3 and so are "staying out of it." But I think the Spierers and LE want more detailed info about L's recent life at college as well as just that night.
    Just my opinion, of course.

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  23. #12
    I believe that suspicion is directed at HT largely because she is the only POI (along with CR's and MB's attorney and some confirmation from LE) who has supplied us with any of the story. What would people be saying if JR, CR, MB, DR, and JW (all of them, unlike HT, represented by counsel) were recounting the night in public as well?

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    Well I personally would love it if JR, JW, and others told us what they know.
    Just my opinion

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    Quote Originally Posted by JeannaT View Post
    I'm going to step out here and say something about the type of friendships these are. These kids are cohorts in crime. Literally. They spend their time flying beneath the radar trying to illegally buy alcohol and drugs, or buy it legally and give it or sell it to those who can't. And then they drink together and prowl the streets and bars until the wee hours. That's what they do.

    When you've got a group like this, they're not really friends. They're accomplices. Now that one of them has caused the bright glaring light of the public on their behaviors, they're a bit scared and a bit irritated. As well, I'm sure they do have some affection for her and some strong sense of loss. But they're also covering their criminal behavior and hoping not to get charged for it.

    Except some, like JW and Mike B who weren't in on this whole thing.

    I contrast their social network with strongly religious youth I know - who spend their time bowling until the late night, sitting on the beach in front of a campfire, having game nights with Trivial Pursuit and Charades, all stone cold sober. If one of their crowd went missing walking home from these events, they'd rally and hold vigils and do what they can - anything - to help out. Because that's what they're made of, that's what their friendships are forged with. Love, affection, connectedness beyond using one another for mutual criminal and drugging/boozing activities.
    Beautifully stated!
    I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeannaT View Post
    I'm going to step out here and say something about the type of friendships these are. These kids are cohorts in crime. Literally. They spend their time flying beneath the radar trying to illegally buy alcohol and drugs, or buy it legally and give it or sell it to those who can't. And then they drink together and prowl the streets and bars until the wee hours. That's what they do.

    When you've got a group like this, they're not really friends. They're accomplices. Now that one of them has caused the bright glaring light of the public on their behaviors, they're a bit scared and a bit irritated. As well, I'm sure they do have some affection for her and some strong sense of loss. But they're also covering their criminal behavior and hoping not to get charged for it.

    Except some, like JW and Mike B who weren't in on this whole thing.

    I contrast their social network with strongly religious youth I know - who spend their time bowling until the late night, sitting on the beach in front of a campfire, having game nights with Trivial Pursuit and Charades, all stone cold sober. If one of their crowd went missing walking home from these events, they'd rally and hold vigils and do what they can - anything - to help out. Because that's what they're made of, that's what their friendships are forged with. Love, affection, connectedness beyond using one another for mutual criminal and drugging/boozing activities.
    Since the drug culture is criminal behavior, yes they can all be considered co-conspirators, and give them a much higher psychological need to self-protest in a situation like this.
    But I am taking that you feel that it also means that the quality of the relationships between friends is not the same as relationships between non-drug related friends. I really don't feel that at all, and do not think you can predict the value/depth of a relationship on whether or not the pair is involved in the drug culture.

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    re:time of missing preson report

    TonyG, Yes, that is what I've concluded as well. Sleeping in in Bloomgton during a recent ended summer session, especially after a heavy nite of "partying", with no job/no classes is normal.
    When I was in Bloom in the late 70's+..I, female, lived on Cottage Grove, off campus, lots of care-free stuff going on, it was the norm to see "what the cat dragged in" the next AM. Our female roomie was even nicknamed Morph (from God of sleep).

    Isnt waiting 24 hr for an adult missing person report to be filed, normal? Or is that just on crime tv? My opinion, these "friends" knew something was terribly amiss because of know risky behavior of this crowd - since a report was filed so soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cluciano63 View Post
    Maybe L's parents need to clarify a bit...and say they are wanting any and all info about Lauren and her friendships, her habits, her routines, etc...people may think they have nothing to contribute to the night of June2/3 and so are "staying out of it." But I think the Spierers and LE want more detailed info about L's recent life at college as well as just that night.
    And to be honest, if I did have anything to contribute to this, I think I would type up everything I know and I suspect, and submit it anonymously - *as people have been encouraged to do*. It is not unreasonable to keep from identifying yourself - even if you did nothing wrong - so that you are not considered a POI, cops don't start to fish for a confession from you, your name isn't leaked to the media, etc.

    And I think 'Lauren's friends' would specifically exclude the known POI or the people who the cops have directly contacted for interviews.

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  34. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by JeannaT View Post
    I'm going to step out here and say something about the type of friendships these are. These kids are cohorts in crime. Literally. They spend their time flying beneath the radar trying to illegally buy alcohol and drugs, or buy it legally and give it or sell it to those who can't. And then they drink together and prowl the streets and bars until the wee hours. That's what they do.

    When you've got a group like this, they're not really friends. They're accomplices. Now that one of them has caused the bright glaring light of the public on their behaviors, they're a bit scared and a bit irritated. As well, I'm sure they do have some affection for her and some strong sense of loss. But they're also covering their criminal behavior and hoping not to get charged for it.

    Except some, like JW and Mike B who weren't in on this whole thing.

    I contrast their social network with strongly religious youth I know - who spend their time bowling until the late night, sitting on the beach in front of a campfire, having game nights with Trivial Pursuit and Charades, all stone cold sober. If one of their crowd went missing walking home from these events, they'd rally and hold vigils and do what they can - anything - to help out. Because that's what they're made of, that's what their friendships are forged with. Love, affection, connectedness beyond using one another for mutual criminal and drugging/boozing activities.
    While I'll leave without comment your moralizing regarding those who drink before they are of age (or at all?) or engage in drug use vs. those who are "strongly religious," I feel compelled to note that you have deemed the former group, which comprises probably 50% or more of American college students, as well as the last three Presidents of the United States, just for example, to have no affection/love for those around them. That doesn't seem to be an especially useful way to evaluate the facts here. You might as well assume that all of the POIs killed LS in a "satanic" ritual.

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  36. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnalyticalExaminer View Post
    I believe that suspicion is directed at HT largely because she is the only POI (along with CR's and MB's attorney and some confirmation from LE) who has supplied us with any of the story. What would people be saying if JR, CR, MB, DR, and JW (all of them, unlike HT, represented by counsel) were recounting the night in public as well?
    I have reread everything posted since last night and don't understand why you feel that there is a suspicion of HT being expressed. Sure, I am mentioning her and her info quite a bit, speculating what other info she may or may not have, but it seems a bit dramatic to characterize my questions, as well as some others as casting any blame upon her. Why are you so defensive about her?

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  38. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by eqh View Post
    In the absence of any information, JW might think she hooked up with someone by 3:00 pm, not that she was missing. Doesn't mean that these folks would know about any abduction, but STRONGLY suggests they would think she was in a dangerous state the night before.
    My understanding is that your latter statement is correct. And that the basis of that belief relates to drug use.

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  40. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by elmomom View Post
    I have reread everything posted since last night and don't understand why you feel that there is a suspicion of HT being expressed. Sure, I am mentioning her and her info quite a bit, speculating what other info she may or may not have, but it seems a bit dramatic to characterize my questions, as well as some others as casting any blame upon her. Why are you so defensive about her?
    I'm not referring in large part to your comments. More to those of others, including TG's and those to which he refers near the end of the last thread. I am defending HT, sure, but I'm not being defensive because I'm not being attacked. The reasons are stated above.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AnalyticalExaminer View Post
    My understanding is that your latter statement is correct. And that the basis of that belief relates to drug use.
    And I would love to know what/when JW, HT, AR et al knew to get their fears up so early the next day.

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    Please don't get this thread locked before PC, for specifically going after a certain post or poster... PC is in in an hour...
    Just my opinion, of course.

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    sv614...I wasn't able to quote your post from the previous thread, but you shares some interesting insight. When you say that the OD rumor was circulating, do you mean that it was circulating BEFORE JW made the missing person report? If that it the case, surely there was great cause for people to be discussing that. Many people have mentioned here, the lifestyle of college kids (partiers or not - even the non-party crowd often stays up til 3-4 AM) so honestly, I struggle with the thought of JW asking around, "Where is Lauren? I can't find her." , then someone starting a rumor before 3 PM, "Oh, I bet she ODd when she went over to JR's house." That's weird to me. It's just so hard for me to imagine that between the time he awoke (maybe noon?) and 4 PM, he thought she ws in danger and contacted the police. It would take a LOT more than 4 hours as a college student, for most people to believe their friend/gf/roommate was missing these days, especially one who was supposedly such a big partier. So, if you're saying that this rumor began BEFORE the 4 PM report - that makes me feel that it wasn't just speculation, but perhaps someone who knew the truth had actually given someone else reason to start this rumor - maybe things were said.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eqh View Post
    And at what time was this call to Lauren's phone that was answered at Kilroy's? If I'm trying to get ahold of someone and can't, then the phone is answered by someone who says he's found it, then my anxiety would be reduced.

    My experience is likely true of any college student: If I were to fall asleep at 4:30 after being rather messed up, I'd be up at the crack of 1 pm, even if I stayed at a friend's. Then I'd head over to the Runcible Spoon or Yogi's for breakfast. My day wouldn't have started by 3 and it would be reasonable to not be home yet.

    In the absence of any information, JW might think she hooked up with someone by 3:00 pm, not that she was missing. Doesn't mean that these folks would know about any abduction, but STRONGLY suggests they would think she was in a dangerous state the night before.
    Haha...runcible spoon, yogi's. I end my night at Lennie's.
    To your very good points...
    If the report was made at 3p -- the concern had to have been brewing at least an hour or two before you actually make the decision to physically go to the police department to fill out a report. I'm starting to think someone was pushing this to a criminal matter more quickly than others, not necessarily intentionally. Maybe because they're mind was working differently, knowing what they knew. And again, if you're a 20 something year old, not very street smart (sheltered, as a matter of fact) you may not realize you are tipping your hand as part of a criminal investigation.

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