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Thread: Verdict Watch

  1. #1
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    Smile Verdict Watch

    Pass the time while we wait for a verdict in this case.

    Last edited by Madeleine74; 06-24-2011 at 09:46 AM.

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  3. #2
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    It's amazing to me how many people on places like twitter refuse to believe that anyone could possibly murder their wife without leaving a lot of direct/forensic evidence. It's as if they need a video of the murder before they would believe someone to be guilty.

    I'm curious to know if you think he's guilty or innocent & what evidence really convinces you of that.

    For me guilty because a. propped door at the HI b. cameras at HI messed with c. HP foot prints in blood at scene d. testimony of Gracie from Four Brothers in King, NC
    Kelly

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    Quote Originally Posted by KellyCrash View Post
    It's amazing to me how many people on places like twitter refuse to believe that anyone could possibly murder their wife without leaving a lot of direct/forensic evidence. It's as if they need a video of the murder before they would believe someone to be guilty.

    I'm curious to know if you think he's guilty or innocent & what evidence really convinces you of that.

    For me guilty because a. propped door at the HI b. cameras at HI messed with c. HP foot prints in blood at scene d. testimony of Gracie from Four Brothers in King, NC
    What's ironic about this case is the giant lack of evidence of Jason Young. The fact that there was so little evidence in his own bedroom alarmed me from the get go. I mean, I would expect his finger prints/hair/dna/etc to be on every inch of that room. This should be considered to be proof of clean up IMO and I think that's where the conspiracy angle came in with JDS.

    His attorneys were awesome though. The prosecution in this case was way more thought out than the other more recent cases. I was a little sad they didn't jump him more on the stand, but I think that was because of the fairly obvious disbelief that he got up there and was arrogant enough to speak/act his way through.

    Somebody's getting promoted on this one too. (BZ from the other big case got a huge bump in clout and cash)

    I don't know how you guys can sit through these and the backlash over and over again. Is that a newer thing? With social media "advances" and all.

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    Got home late yesterday and watched the prosecutor's closing arguments. Didn't even want to watch the defense. I think both ADAs did a pretty good job of connecting the dots.
    Would love, LOVE, for the jury to come back with a resounding 'guilty' sometime today.
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  9. #5
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    1 PM - Guilty.

    Figure that gets the jurors out of downtown and home at a decent hour outside of the normal rush of folks leaving. Get home, decompress and have their lives back for a weekend.

    I could see it going as late as 2:30 - but sure see it being in today.

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  11. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnfear View Post
    What's ironic about this case is the giant lack of evidence of Jason Young. The fact that there was so little evidence in his own bedroom alarmed me from the get go. I mean, I would expect his finger prints/hair/dna/etc to be on every inch of that room. This should be considered to be proof of clean up IMO and I think that's where the conspiracy angle came in with JDS.

    His attorneys were awesome though. The prosecution in this case was way more thought out than the other more recent cases. I was a little sad they didn't jump him more on the stand, but I think that was because of the fairly obvious disbelief that he got up there and was arrogant enough to speak/act his way through.

    Somebody's getting promoted on this one too. (BZ from the other big case got a huge bump in clout and cash)

    I don't know how you guys can sit through these and the backlash over and over again. Is that a newer thing? With social media "advances" and all.
    Good to see you again JohnFear! Don't understand your last comments though.....I need more coffee Watching these trials do take their toll on me if that's what you mean. I have been bouncing back and forth between the Anthony trial in FL and this trial and each night when I go to bed I am exhausted, emotionally. Don't want to get this caught up in another ever again.
    Shoot all the bluejays you want, if you can hit 'em, but remember it's a sin to kill a mockingbird.
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    He's absolutely GUILTY!

    I too am amazed at the gullibility and sheer ignorance of so many who do not understand circumstantial evidence, reasonable inference, don't actually follow a trial and yet claim to know what the proper verdict should be and yes, KellyCrash, these are people who believe every perp must leave their blood, fingerprints and a note next to the body saying "yes, I did it!" before they would ever find a defendant guilty.

    Convincing C.E. in this case:

    - His HP shoes, bloody shoeprints, missing shoes
    - missing clothes from 11/2
    - computer searches for knockout, head trauma, etc.
    - Gracie Dahms + receipt matching the exact purchase putting him in King, NC at 5:27am 11/3
    - Rock in the H.I. door + camera conveniently unplugged then pushed up after it was reset 20 min earlier
    - only using his keycard one time
    - light colored SUV seen at/near his house at 3:30am
    - the bogus search for Coach bags and his excuse as to why M.F. had to get to the house
    - the affairs & his admitting he was in love with MM
    - never speaking to anyone at anytime after the murder
    - never asking how his wife died or what happened
    - handing over custody of his daughter to avoid giving a depo
    - the crime scene, overkill, CY unharmed, cleaned up, and adult meds given to her
    - couple that with his obvious and ridiculous lies on the stand, his demeanor, his own friends testimony.


    GUILTY!

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  14. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCEast View Post
    Good to see you again JohnFear! Don't understand your last comments though.....I need more coffee Watching these trials do take their toll on me if that's what you mean. I have been bouncing back and forth between the Anthony trial in FL and this trial and each night when I go to bed I am exhausted, emotionally. Don't want to get this caught up in another ever again.
    It's just general commentary on how the local community responds to this. (I am traditionally addicted to paper, by extension I can usually be found with a newspaper under my arm from any of the local small towns. I read them all.) Now that news has gone almost completely digital and therefore nearly instantaneous, you see people's responses to things on twitter/facebook/forums, etc. And not everyone has the same opinion. The canyon between the sides on these cases gets filled with a whole lot of subterfuge and it makes me sick to my stomach to watch. I got done with one trial where I had a heavy handed opinion of the proceedings, but not the crime itself and moved on to this one where I basically just watched. (I did try out the drive that everyone has an opinion on and I visited the hotel in question but found it all unremarkable. The drive is totally doable in the time frames allotted, but the hotel had three cameras turned up and two doors propped when I visited it roughly five years after the fact.)
    I am avoiding that other thing going on down in Florida because I have a young daughter and that aspect makes it unwatchable for me.

    After RA's mess, I think I will be done with this altogether and then another interesting mess pops up in Wake County this morning that I start poking my nose into before it even hits the news.

    Anyways, as per my usual, it's verdict time, so I ramble...

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    JLY left his handprint/palmprint on the sheetrock near the molding of his own closet door, about 18 in from the bottom. However, one can say that since it's his own house there is nothing hinky about his own prints being found in the house, regardless of where they were found.

    The closet door being opened and MY's body being moved for the perp to get into that closet is another piece of circumstantial evidence. Someone knew whose closet that was and needed to get in there.

    We know it wasn't to 'steal' JLY's HP shoes. Why? Because JLY himself said on the stand those shoes were either "thrown away or donated to Goodwill by MY sometime before the murder." Of course he's lying, but JLY has removed all doubt that someone else took HIS shoes from HIS closet and then walked around in them in MY's blood.

    People can't seem to figure out that JLY was likely wearing gloves as he committed this murder. He was wearing long sleeves and long pants (not to mention those HP shoes). He had a weapon of some kind. He wasn't rolling around on the bed or on the floor during the commission of this murder. This was fast, brutal, probably over in 5 min. The rest of his time at his home was him changing out of his clothes, getting clean clothes, walking around in a different pair of shoes, washing blood off of himself, getting CY drugged and settled. It doesn't take hours to do this.

    BTW, he did get some of MY's blood outside that BR...specifically on a doorknob in the garage leading right out to the side where the hose is (and was found running).

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  18. #10
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    Just speculation... if we hear a GUILTY verdict, do you think PY will sit quietly or will she have an outburst in the courtroom??


    I'm a nervous wreck today!!

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  20. #11
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    PY? She doesn't seem like the outburst type to me.

    I don't know if the jury will come back with a verdict today. They are just getting started today for real. There's a lot to sift through. It would not surprise me if they did not have a verdict today. I hope they do, and I hope it's guilty, but I could see this taking longer.

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  22. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by KellyCrash View Post
    It's amazing to me how many people on places like twitter refuse to believe that anyone could possibly murder their wife without leaving a lot of direct/forensic evidence. It's as if they need a video of the murder before they would believe someone to be guilty.

    I'm curious to know if you think he's guilty or innocent & what evidence really convinces you of that.

    For me guilty because a. propped door at the HI b. cameras at HI messed with c. HP foot prints in blood at scene d. testimony of Gracie from Four Brothers in King, NC
    Hi, Kelly -

    Your observations about the amount and type of evidence that some folks seem to require are interesting. I agree with your thoughts, and will add that real life is so much more muddled and less clear than we poor humans would like. If we had a "hood cam" mounted on JY's SUV, and it produced a date/time-stamped video of JY driving his car thru intersection after intersection heading back down to Birchleaf, entering the house, coming back out & washing up and heading back to HI, I feel sure that the jury would already have given their verdict, but we don't.

    Absent that, we have to use reasoning, logic & common sense. And it's nearly always difficult to decide whodunit.

    I agree with your reasons for your verdict of GUILTY, and here are a couple more of mine.

    One of mine is the sheer brutality of the murder. I could imagine JY striking each blow and thinking, "....And this one's for getting pregnant and forcing me into this dayam marriage; this one's for calling your mom all the time; this one's for not agreeing to have sex with me the way I like it -- it's not a wife's place to ever refuse her husband, you cold b****, ..." etc., etc.

    One more reason is "Where are the clothes and where are the shoes, Mr. Smarty Pants?"
    Last edited by borndem; 06-24-2011 at 09:33 AM. Reason: grammar


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  24. #13
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    First, let me saw that some folks are right brain dominant and others are left brain dominant. I think this may explain some of the individuals that require more concrete evidence before drawing conclusions. I also prefer to use the term uninformed rather than sheer ignorance in describing other folks. And finally, those who follow enough trials do begin to be more informed, more intuitive, and more aware of certain patterns that exist between different defendants. I respect that acquired ability.

    I think JY's actions (or lack of) speak volumes in this case. His behavior is not typical of an innocent man. His version of events at the Hotel do not seem right to me. I threw away all eyewitness versions since they really had problems, all of them. But the most believable was Gracie. Yes, I think he is guilty, and it is so sad that he had such rage towards his wife and such little regard for his daughter that he gave her up because he did not want to be questioned. The shoes to me were extremely important in this case. His story of her throwing them away does not hold water. And finally, he had all of the answers, but who would not. He had all that time to lay out his answers, see the evidence, and hear the witnesses.

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  26. #14
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    BTW, I don't know if BZ got a raise or not after the BC trial, but after the trial ended I asked him if he was promoted or was moving to do murder cases now. He said no, he is in a rotation and his next case would be a drug one (I think he said it was coming up in July). The BC case was not his first murder case (it was his 3rd), but it was his first murder trial. Also, the ADAs do not rack up overtime or get comp time for extra hrs.

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  28. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeleine74 View Post
    BTW, I don't know if BZ got a raise or not after the BC trial, but after the trial ended I asked him if he was promoted or was moving to do murder cases now. He said no, he is in a rotation and his next case would be a drug one (I think he said it was coming up in July). The BC case was not his first murder case (it was his 3rd), but it was his first murder trial. Also, the ADAs do not rack up overtime or get comp time for extra hrs.
    He got bumped.

    http://web.co.wake.nc.us/districtatt...ganization.htm

    This was a few weeks after the other trial.

    And they seem to always be on rotation in Superior Court, no?

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  30. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeleine74 View Post
    JLY left his handprint/palmprint on the sheetrock near the molding of his own closet door, about 18 in from the bottom. However, one can say that since it's his own house there is nothing hinky about his own prints being found in the house, regardless of where they were found.

    The closet door being opened and MY's body being moved for the perp to get into that closet is another piece of circumstantial evidence. Someone knew whose closet that was and needed to get in there.

    We know it wasn't to 'steal' JLY's HP shoes. Why? Because JLY himself said on the stand those shoes were either "thrown away or donated to Goodwill by MY sometime before the murder." Of course he's lying, but JLY has removed all doubt that someone else took HIS shoes from HIS closet and then walked around in them in MY's blood.

    People can't seem to figure out that JLY was likely wearing gloves as he committed this murder. He was wearing long sleeves and long pants (not to mention those HP shoes). He had a weapon of some kind. He wasn't rolling around on the bed or on the floor during the commission of this murder. This was fast, brutal, probably over in 5 min. The rest of his time at his home was him changing out of his clothes, getting clean clothes, walking around in a different pair of shoes, washing blood off of himself, getting CY drugged and settled. It doesn't take hours to do this.

    BTW, he did get some of MY's blood outside that BR...specifically on a doorknob in the garage leading right out to the side where the hose is (and was found running).
    BBM. Oh, man. I laughed so hard at that it's ridiculous.

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    I don't quite understand the layout/positioning of the names on the Wake County DA's office organization page. BZ used to be an ADA in the drug unit. The drug unit is also under Superior Court. Looks like he is no longer in the drug unit, though he still works on those cases, as assigned. His title is still ADA. He has a bright future ahead of him, I have no doubt about that.

    Amy F. used to be his supervisor. She told me she was the first ADA put on the Cooper case, way back in the beginning. She's the one who suggested that BZ be brought into the BC case. I think it's fair to say she felt very proud of his work in that case.

    So happy David Saacks is now with Wake County. He did an awesome job in the JLY trial and his closing was spot on!


    P.S. to the mods: I'm not discussing the Cooper case, I'm discussing the Wake County DA office--this organization contains the very same folks who prosecuted the JLY case.

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  33. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeleine74 View Post
    PY? She doesn't seem like the outburst type to me.

    I don't know if the jury will come back with a verdict today. They are just getting started today for real. There's a lot to sift through. It would not surprise me if they did not have a verdict today. I hope they do, and I hope it's guilty, but I could see this taking longer.
    I agree Madeleine. I feel she already knows he's guilty so I can more easily see an outburst if they find 'not guilty'--jubilation and glee.
    I also agree that a verdict today would surprise me. Even if they have already taken a poll and are in 100 percent agreement, either way, I think the jury would want to appear to not have made a fast decision in just a few short hours. However, it would please me to no end for a guilty to come back this afternoon.
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    I do not think there will be a verdict today, but it would be nice.

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  37. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeleine74 View Post
    JLY left his handprint/palmprint on the sheetrock near the molding of his own closet door, about 18 in from the bottom. However, one can say that since it's his own house there is nothing hinky about his own prints being found in the house, regardless of where they were found.

    The closet door being opened and MY's body being moved for the perp to get into that closet is another piece of circumstantial evidence. Someone knew whose closet that was and needed to get in there.

    We know it wasn't to 'steal' JLY's HP shoes. Why? Because JLY himself said on the stand those shoes were either "thrown away or donated to Goodwill by MY sometime before the murder." Of course he's lying, but JLY has removed all doubt that someone else took HIS shoes from HIS closet and then walked around in them in MY's blood.

    People can't seem to figure out that JLY was likely wearing gloves as he committed this murder. He was wearing long sleeves and long pants (not to mention those HP shoes). He had a weapon of some kind. He wasn't rolling around on the bed or on the floor during the commission of this murder. This was fast, brutal, probably over in 5 min. The rest of his time at his home was him changing out of his clothes, getting clean clothes, walking around in a different pair of shoes, washing blood off of himself, getting CY drugged and settled. It doesn't take hours to do this.

    BTW, he did get some of MY's blood outside that BR...specifically on a doorknob in the garage leading right out to the side where the hose is (and was found running).
    Good Morning, MadWoman -

    I just want to ditto your thoughts on the gloves -- I think we all agree that JY made a "to-do-her-in" list, and for the most part, checked it twice. It was a pretty good one, altho not perfect. Things happen that no one can predict.

    Anyway, I feel sure that one of the first things on his list was indeed gloves; if he planned it down to the purchase (IMO) of the cheap Franklins and had to go purchase them, then you know he also had gloves on his list. It could have been a simple pair of latex "surgeon's" gloves, or he could have had a pair of winter (NC mountain cold weather) type gloves -- either of which probably were in his house or garage.

    [I am so afraid to jinx this case, I have not voted in your poll..... I'm very superstitious about this kind of thing. But I will "throw caution to the wind" <snort>, and say Guilty by 3:00--4:00 this pm.] <tremble, tremble>
    Last edited by borndem; 06-24-2011 at 10:17 AM. Reason: punctuation


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  39. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by happy2binNC View Post
    Just speculation... if we hear a GUILTY verdict, do you think PY will sit quietly or will she have an outburst in the courtroom??


    I'm a nervous wreck today!!
    I think she will give some kind of not-too-loud Basque wail....

    Same here, happy2, about the nervousness -- my confidence is blown to bits -- I'm so very superstitious (izzat the right word?) while the jury is out, but I can't hold my breath for days, but I feel like I'm doing just that.


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    Off-topic: in the ICA trial, her mother testified yesterday that she did computer searches for terms involving trauma and injuries after a friend was in a car accident.

    Sound familiar?

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    LOL happy2binNC.

    I wonder if CA will claim to have done the 'head trauma knockout' searches on JLY's computer too? Why not claim them all at this point.

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  45. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by KellyCrash View Post
    It's amazing to me how many people on places like twitter refuse to believe that anyone could possibly murder their wife without leaving a lot of direct/forensic evidence. It's as if they need a video of the murder before they would believe someone to be guilty.

    I'm curious to know if you think he's guilty or innocent & what evidence really convinces you of that.

    For me guilty because a. propped door at the HI b. cameras at HI messed with c. HP foot prints in blood at scene d. testimony of Gracie from Four Brothers in King, NC
    For me, with circumstantial cases such as these, it's the complete and utter totality of the evidence, all fitting together like the pieces of a puzzle. IMO, juries have problems when they latch on to one little piece that doesn't appear to someone to fit properly. And they lose the whole picture, over this one tiny piece of the puzzle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by happy2binNC View Post
    Just speculation... if we hear a GUILTY verdict, do you think PY will sit quietly or will she have an outburst in the courtroom??


    I'm a nervous wreck today!!
    I think PY would purse her lips even further than normal, tighten her face up even more, stick her nose up in the air, and blame Linda and Meredith for her sons *fate*. JMO

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