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  1. #1
    Madeleine74's Avatar
    Madeleine74 is offline Of course it's my opinion; who else's would it be?
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    The Jury Hangs - Justice Delayed

    a new thread since the other one is quite full.

  2. #2
    Madeleine74's Avatar
    Madeleine74 is offline Of course it's my opinion; who else's would it be?
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    How 'bout a list of all the things the state didn't show that they need to show in the next trial (assuming they will try JLY again). I know there are lots of items that the state could have brought into the case but for some reason did not. The truth is, the jury did not see all the evidence they could have, because some of it was simply left out...perhaps for no good reason other than 'not enough time' or 'state didn't think it was that important.'

  3. #3
    Madeleine74's Avatar
    Madeleine74 is offline Of course it's my opinion; who else's would it be?
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    Who do you think should prosecute the next case? And what order would you put them in?

    This time it was:

    1. Becky Holt
    2. David Saacks
    3. Howard Cummings

    My recommendation would be:

    1. David Saacks
    2. Boz Zellinger
    3. Becky Holt

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeleine74 View Post
    Who do you think should prosecute the next case? And what order would you put them in?

    This time it was:

    1. Becky Holt
    2. David Saacks
    3. Howard Cummings

    My recommendation would be:

    1. David Saacks
    2. Boz Zellinger
    3. Becky Holt
    I agree with your list. I do think we need Holt (as 3rd, yes) due to her being already familiar with the case, and I think it's oftentimes good to have female-to-female questions-testimony.


    All posts, unless attributed, are "just my humble opinion," and they are to remain here in Websleuths and are not to be used elsewhere. Thank you.
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  5. #5
    Madeleine74's Avatar
    Madeleine74 is offline Of course it's my opinion; who else's would it be?
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    Okay I'll start since I'm talking to myself at the moment anyway... <watches tumbleweed blow by>

    1. Counting on multiple affairs to = murder doesn't seem to work. Most people discount affairs. "Yes s/he cheated but that doesn't mean that s/he...." Unless there's evidence of a conspiracy between a couple or unless the perp confided in their amore, you don't seem to get much leverage.

    2. Make the Math Work (and don't ignore it). Mileage, # of gallons purchased, time, distance...gotta make it simple for the jury to see how this could have played out.

    3. List ALL the Coincidences - by closing there should be a list of at least 15 or so items to show the jury that all these things happened to this one person on this one day. Now how reasonable is it to believe it's JUST a coincidence? Why prosecutors don't utilize this simple tool to make their point I'll never understand. Big posterboard with the list of every coincidence. How hard is that? It would be very effective, IMHO. Worked in the Scott Peterson case.

    4. Show ALL your evidence. Don't hold back. Show the emails, documents and all the things that a jury needs to see to understand history and context.

    5. Don't RUSH the Case! - Yes the BC trial took too long, but don't force your trial to be over before you actually present a full and cohesive case. The judge kept saying the state was "ahead of itself." That's a clue right there that you're moving too fast and leaving stuff out!

    6. Talk about the open issues...openly. There's a 2nd pair of shoe prints, 2 cigarette butts, one hair. Don't pretend they don't exist. Make them part of your opening statement. Then get past that and show how thorough the CCBI was at the scene. SIX days they were there!

    7. Make Spivey Drink a Red Bull Before Testifying - Spivey was very low key...way too low key. Don't put your lead detective on the stand for a total of 1/2 a day. C'mon! A 3+ year investigation warrants more information and detail. Have the detective clearly articulate WHY the evidence kept leading them to JLY and not to anyone else.

    8. Learn How To Do Aggressive Cross Exams - and Then Do Them! -- passive cross-exams in a capital murder case have no place. Don't be afraid to really dig in and nail someone's hiney to the wall. If the defendant gets on the stand, unleash some holy he!! and keep him on that stand. The jury can handle it.
    Last edited by Madeleine74; 06-27-2011 at 10:43 PM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeleine74 View Post
    Who do you think should prosecute the next case? And what order would you put them in?

    This time it was:

    1. Becky Holt
    2. David Saacks
    3. Howard Cummings

    My recommendation would be:

    1. David Saacks
    2. Boz Zellinger
    3. Becky Holt

    David Saacks

    Boz Zellinger

    Howard Cummings

    And yes, that's how little confidence I have in Becky Holt.

  7. #7
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    The Bloody Size 10 Franklin Footprints in the Murder Room

    One item, and I'm sorry to resurrect it again, but I think the bloody size 10 footprints in the bedroom could have been, and may be, a sticking point for some jurors. I can easily understand that because I don't think the ADAs did a good job of showing an alternative to a 2nd person in the house. This 2-perp possibility is large part due to the size 10's -- and there were indeed 2 sets of footprints in blood.

    They need to show the picture of JY's foot with its blisters, red places and the bruise. And they should show the HP next to the Franklin to further show the difference in the actual size of the shoe. "Ouch." They should have the jurors think about wearing a pair of shoes 2 sizes too small for perhaps 30 minutes or so. "What do you think your foot would look like? To me, that takes care of this 2nd person in the murder room, ladies & gentlemen of the jury."
    Last edited by borndem; 06-27-2011 at 10:47 PM. Reason: wording


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  8. #8
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    The Dog and the Strangers

    What about the dog? Where was he? We know he slept on his dog bed on the master bedroom floor beside JY. Where was he? Would he willingly follow a couple of strangers down the hall and let them shut him in another room or closet?

    Or would the burglars just let him roam around the room while they brutally killed his mistress despite hearing her screams and seeing her struggle and then gurgle in her own blood and die? And where were his bloody footprints? Yes, jurors, what about the dog and the strangers?


    All posts, unless attributed, are "just my humble opinion," and they are to remain here in Websleuths and are not to be used elsewhere. Thank you.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Madeleine74 View Post
    Okay I'll start since I'm talking to myself at the moment anyway... <watches tumbleweed blow by>

    1. Counting on multiple affairs to = murder doesn't seem to work. Most people discount affairs. "Yes s/he cheated but that doesn't mean that s/he...." Unless there's evidence of a conspiracy between a couple or unless the perp confided in their amore, you don't seem to get much leverage.

    2. Make the Math Work (and don't ignore it). Mileage, # of gallons purchased, time, distance...gotta make it simple for the jury to see how this could have played out.

    3. List ALL the Coincidences - by closing there should be a list of at least 15 or so items to show the jury that all these things happened to this one person on this one day. Now how reasonable is it to believe it's JUST a coincidence? Why prosecutors don't utilize this simple tool to make their point I'll never understand. Big posterboard with the list of every coincidence. How hard is that? It would be very effective, IMHO. Worked in the Scott Peterson case.

    4. Show ALL your evidence. Don't hold back. Show the emails, documents and all the things that a jury needs to see to understand history and context.

    5. Don't RUSH the Case! - Yes the BC trial took too long, but don't force your trial to be over before you actually present a full and cohesive case. The judge kept saying the state was "ahead of itself." That's a clue right there that you're moving too fast and leaving stuff out!

    6. Talk about the open issues...openly. There's a 2nd pair of shoe prints, 2 cigarette butts, one hair. Don't pretend they don't exist. Make them part of your opening statement. Then get past that and show how thorough the CCBI was at the scene. SIX days they were there!

    7. Make Spivey Drink a Red Bull Before Testifying - Spivey was very low key...way too low key. Don't put your lead detective on the stand for a total of 1/2 a day. C'mon! A 3+ year investigation warrants more information and detail. Have the detective clearly articulate WHY the evidence kept leading them to JLY and not to anyone else.

    8. Learn How To Do Aggressive Cross Exams - and Then Do Them! -- passive cross-exams in a capital murder case have no place. Don't be afraid to really dig in and nail someone's hiney to the wall. If the defendant gets on the stand, unleash some holy he!! and keep him on that stand. The jury can handle it.
    Okay, number 1, I'd put *some* emphasis on JLY's infidelities, but I'd definitely, loudly, emphatically point out his ripping the ring off his prior fiance, swallow the girl he just slept with wedding rings, and take the rings off Michelle's finger. I'd zoom into that Freida-style.

    2, wished they'd taken pictures of the home/garden supply area. If somebody zoomed a camera into our lean-to off the shed, they'd see the John Deere, the generator, the big power washer, the big garden tiller, the weed-wacker, and a long row of GAS CANS. Big huge 5 gallon gas cans. Just asked hubby, we have four, 5 gallon gas cans, and 2 of the smaller size gas cans. This isn't rocket science. Speaking of, that lady astronaut who drove from Texas to Florida, didn't she carry a gas can or two to refuel? Along with her depends?

    3 & 4 totally agree.

    5 Totally agree, I'm thinking Judge Stephens, whom I really like, isn't feeling too good tonight about 'speeding things along.'

    6 I don't see the big deal about the second pair of shoes. Look at it this way, show me a couple of criminals where one wears hush puppies and the other buys his shoes at Dollar General? I'm of the stick Jason's ugly feet up next to the size tens.

    7 Next time put a different detective on important first degree murder cases. Get the big teddy bear from Cary.

    8 Don't pay any attention to those who think Boz is brash or what ever. It's call 'cross exam' for a reason. Bears repeating:

    Learn How To Do Aggressive Cross Exams - and Then Do Them! -- passive cross-exams in a capital murder case have no place. Don't be afraid to really dig in and nail someone's hiney to the wall. If the defendant gets on the stand, unleash some holy he!! and keep him on that stand. The jury can handle it.[/QUOTE]


    That about sums it up. And play that 911 tape frame by frame, pointing out all the background talking Cas is doing. IMO

  10. #10
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    What about the email to his sister where he said he hoped they didn't arrest anyone.

    Why? He didn't ask how Michelle died. He didn't ask LE how they were doing in the case. He didn't offer to help LE. But he told his sis he hoped they didn't arrest anyone?

    Perhaps they didn't win any points with the 'affairs.' But if they showed the timing, how they seemed to accelerate until the murder!? I think the timing of the affairs was lost in all this.

    IF they want to see JY as a liar, IF he were to testify again, they should ask the jury in around about way, if he couldn't be truthful to his wife, the mother of his child and the mother of his unborn son, how does he expect us to believe anything he says?

    I think they should bring up the life insurance too. Not only that, but how he didn't apply for it because it 'would look bad for him.' Just like he wouldn't testify or make a statement to keep his daughter. OR he wouldn't talk to LE to help find his wife's killer.

    Then we're supposed to believe him!? His excuse for everything that points towards his guilt? His excuse. Holding someone's finger was a first responder? which is why he looked up head trauma!? OMG, I can't believe anyone would fall for that one!

    Sorry, these should have been emphacized and HOPEFULLY they try again and use them!

    fran


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by borndem View Post
    What about the dog? Where was he? We know he slept on his dog bed on the master bedroom floor beside JY. Where was he? Would he willingly follow a couple of strangers down the hall and let them shut him in another room or closet?

    Or would the burglars just let him roam around the room while they brutally killed his mistress despite hearing her screams and seeing her struggle and then gurgle in her own blood and die? And where were his bloody footprints? Yes, jurors, what about the dog and the strangers?
    Seriously you guys need to write this all to them! Brilliant you guys!!!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by fran View Post
    What about the email to his sister where he said he hoped they didn't arrest anyone.

    Why? He didn't ask how Michelle died. He didn't ask LE how they were doing in the case. He didn't offer to help LE. But he told his sis he hoped they didn't arrest anyone?

    Perhaps they didn't win any points with the 'affairs.' But if they showed the timing, how they seemed to accelerate until the murder!? I think the timing of the affairs was lost in all this.

    IF they want to see JY as a liar, IF he were to testify again, they should ask the jury in around about way, if he couldn't be truthful to his wife, the mother of his child and the mother of his unborn son, how does he expect us to believe anything he says?

    I think they should bring up the life insurance too. Not only that, but how he didn't apply for it because it 'would look bad for him.' Just like he wouldn't testify or make a statement to keep his daughter. OR he wouldn't talk to LE to help find his wife's killer.

    Then we're supposed to believe him!? His excuse for everything that points towards his guilt? His excuse. Holding someone's finger was a first responder? which is why he looked up head trauma!? OMG, I can't believe anyone would fall for that one!

    Sorry, these should have been emphacized and HOPEFULLY they try again and use them!

    fran
    Yes, yes and yes! Hit that insurance. Hit lying the way you said. Hit that he didn't even do a walk-through with LE to point out what was missing (!) and to show them what looked out-of-place. And just like BC, did he even ask how, or when or why when he found his pregnant wife was dead? How/where is my daughter? Is she okay? Car wreck? Struck by lightning? Bitten by a copperhead? Did she fall & drown in a well? Choke to death on her fattening Special K? Kidnapped by Martians?

    Why didn't they publish and make a big deal of the JY & KY emails? Indeed, Fran. (Could they not present it because she was not there? Izzat why she wasn't there? Well, heyell, subpeona her and discuss those emails!
    Great and (potentially, if done right) aggressive list, Fran.


    All posts, unless attributed, are "just my humble opinion," and they are to remain here in Websleuths and are not to be used elsewhere. Thank you.
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  13. #13
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    Talk about the Killing of Michelle

    Talk about the physical act of the murder and its brutality.

    Show the mouth that he had lovingly kissed at the wedding -- here it is on the murder room floor. This mouth that had kissed her daughter goodnight and told her Curious George and Dora the Explorer stories, and taught her to count and say her ABC's. Never more will that happen. Now Cy will not have her to sing silly songs with. Show the clothes she was wearing when she bled to death in them.

    Show a picture of Michelle smiling and pretty and showing her pretty white teeth. Then compare it with a picture of the scene which shows as much of her face as possible. If possible, show on that picture where this & that tooth were found on the floor. Make it real and chilling and full of hate.

    He bludgeoned her with a weapon. At least 30 blows. Who overkills someone he/she/they do(es) not know? Talk about the savagery, the blood, the teeth found how far away from her mouth? How many teeth were found on the floor? Where was bone protruding through her jaw, her skull, her neck (or wherever it protruded). How big was the circle of blood on the carpet or the bed? Was it still wet when you (LEO) arrived at the scene? How far away from the body was the farthest speck of blood?

    Explain that she probably suffered from these wounds until her heart could beat no longer and until her brain ceased to think.

    Before & After pictures.
    Last edited by borndem; 06-28-2011 at 12:03 AM. Reason: grammar


    All posts, unless attributed, are "just my humble opinion," and they are to remain here in Websleuths and are not to be used elsewhere. Thank you.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrimeAddict View Post
    Seriously you guys need to write this all to them! Brilliant you guys!!!
    the prosecution team had as many days months and years to get this right as jason had to come up with his story. i knew when holt said that's all i have this wasn't good. i had hope after the closing arguments but holt really screwed up the cross of jason.

  15. #15
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    omgosh I've just now learned it was hung

    after watching the prosecution performance though, I'm not surprised ... just incredibly sad that justice failed

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