The Jury Hangs - Justice Delayed

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How 'bout a list of all the things the state didn't show that they need to show in the next trial (assuming they will try JLY again). I know there are lots of items that the state could have brought into the case but for some reason did not. The truth is, the jury did not see all the evidence they could have, because some of it was simply left out...perhaps for no good reason other than 'not enough time' or 'state didn't think it was that important.'
 
Who do you think should prosecute the next case? And what order would you put them in?

This time it was:

1. Becky Holt
2. David Saacks
3. Howard Cummings

My recommendation would be:

1. David Saacks
2. Boz Zellinger
3. Becky Holt
 
Madeleine74 said:
Who do you think should prosecute the next case? And what order would you put them in?

This time it was:

1. Becky Holt
2. David Saacks
3. Howard Cummings

My recommendation would be:

1. David Saacks
2. Boz Zellinger
3. Becky Holt
Click to expand...

I agree with your list. I do think we need Holt (as 3rd, yes) due to her being already familiar with the case, and I think it's oftentimes good to have female-to-female questions-testimony.
 
Okay I'll start since I'm talking to myself at the moment anyway... <watches tumbleweed blow by>

1. Counting on multiple affairs to = murder doesn't seem to work. Most people discount affairs. "Yes s/he cheated but that doesn't mean that s/he...." Unless there's evidence of a conspiracy between a couple or unless the perp confided in their amore, you don't seem to get much leverage.

2. Make the Math Work (and don't ignore it). Mileage, # of gallons purchased, time, distance...gotta make it simple for the jury to see how this could have played out.

3. List ALL the Coincidences - by closing there should be a list of at least 15 or so items to show the jury that all these things happened to this one person on this one day. Now how reasonable is it to believe it's JUST a coincidence? Why prosecutors don't utilize this simple tool to make their point I'll never understand. Big posterboard with the list of every coincidence. How hard is that? It would be very effective, IMHO. Worked in the Scott Peterson case.

4. Show ALL your evidence. Don't hold back. Show the emails, documents and all the things that a jury needs to see to understand history and context.

5. Don't RUSH the Case! - Yes the BC trial took too long, but don't force your trial to be over before you actually present a full and cohesive case. The judge kept saying the state was "ahead of itself." That's a clue right there that you're moving too fast and leaving stuff out!

6. Talk about the open issues...openly. There's a 2nd pair of shoe prints, 2 cigarette butts, one hair. Don't pretend they don't exist. Make them part of your opening statement. Then get past that and show how thorough the CCBI was at the scene. SIX days they were there!

7. Make Spivey Drink a Red Bull Before Testifying - Spivey was very low key...way too low key. Don't put your lead detective on the stand for a total of 1/2 a day. C'mon! A 3+ year investigation warrants more information and detail. Have the detective clearly articulate WHY the evidence kept leading them to JLY and not to anyone else.

8. Learn How To Do Aggressive Cross Exams - and Then Do Them! -- passive cross-exams in a capital murder case have no place. Don't be afraid to really dig in and nail someone's hiney to the wall. If the defendant gets on the stand, unleash some holy he!! and keep him on that stand. The jury can handle it.
 
Madeleine74 said:
Who do you think should prosecute the next case? And what order would you put them in?

This time it was:

1. Becky Holt
2. David Saacks
3. Howard Cummings

My recommendation would be:

1. David Saacks
2. Boz Zellinger
3. Becky Holt
Click to expand...


David Saacks

Boz Zellinger

Howard Cummings

And yes, that's how little confidence I have in Becky Holt. :banghead:
 
One item, and I'm sorry to resurrect it again, but I think the bloody size 10 footprints in the bedroom could have been, and may be, a sticking point for some jurors. I can easily understand that because I don't think the ADAs did a good job of showing an alternative to a 2nd person in the house. This 2-perp possibility is large part due to the size 10's -- and there were indeed 2 sets of footprints in blood.

They need to show the picture of JY's foot with its blisters, red places and the bruise. And they should show the HP next to the Franklin to further show the difference in the actual size of the shoe. "Ouch." They should have the jurors think about wearing a pair of shoes 2 sizes too small for perhaps 30 minutes or so. "What do you think your foot would look like? To me, that takes care of this 2nd person in the murder room, ladies & gentlemen of the jury."
 
What about the dog? Where was he? We know he slept on his dog bed on the master bedroom floor beside JY. Where was he? Would he willingly follow a couple of strangers down the hall and let them shut him in another room or closet?

Or would the burglars just let him roam around the room while they brutally killed his mistress despite hearing her screams and seeing her struggle and then gurgle in her own blood and die? And where were his bloody footprints? Yes, jurors, what about the dog and the strangers?
 
Madeleine74 said:
Okay I'll start since I'm talking to myself at the moment anyway... <watches tumbleweed blow by>

1. Counting on multiple affairs to = murder doesn't seem to work. Most people discount affairs. "Yes s/he cheated but that doesn't mean that s/he...." Unless there's evidence of a conspiracy between a couple or unless the perp confided in their amore, you don't seem to get much leverage.

2. Make the Math Work (and don't ignore it). Mileage, # of gallons purchased, time, distance...gotta make it simple for the jury to see how this could have played out.

3. List ALL the Coincidences - by closing there should be a list of at least 15 or so items to show the jury that all these things happened to this one person on this one day. Now how reasonable is it to believe it's JUST a coincidence? Why prosecutors don't utilize this simple tool to make their point I'll never understand. Big posterboard with the list of every coincidence. How hard is that? It would be very effective, IMHO. Worked in the Scott Peterson case.

4. Show ALL your evidence. Don't hold back. Show the emails, documents and all the things that a jury needs to see to understand history and context.

5. Don't RUSH the Case! - Yes the BC trial took too long, but don't force your trial to be over before you actually present a full and cohesive case. The judge kept saying the state was "ahead of itself." That's a clue right there that you're moving too fast and leaving stuff out!

6. Talk about the open issues...openly. There's a 2nd pair of shoe prints, 2 cigarette butts, one hair. Don't pretend they don't exist. Make them part of your opening statement. Then get past that and show how thorough the CCBI was at the scene. SIX days they were there!

7. Make Spivey Drink a Red Bull Before Testifying - Spivey was very low key...way too low key. Don't put your lead detective on the stand for a total of 1/2 a day. C'mon! A 3+ year investigation warrants more information and detail. Have the detective clearly articulate WHY the evidence kept leading them to JLY and not to anyone else.

8. Learn How To Do Aggressive Cross Exams - and Then Do Them! -- passive cross-exams in a capital murder case have no place. Don't be afraid to really dig in and nail someone's hiney to the wall. If the defendant gets on the stand, unleash some holy he!! and keep him on that stand. The jury can handle it.
Click to expand...

Okay, number 1, I'd put *some* emphasis on JLY's infidelities, but I'd definitely, loudly, emphatically point out his ripping the ring off his prior fiance, swallow the girl he just slept with wedding rings, and take the rings off Michelle's finger. I'd zoom into that Freida-style.

2, wished they'd taken pictures of the home/garden supply area. If somebody zoomed a camera into our lean-to off the shed, they'd see the John Deere, the generator, the big power washer, the big garden tiller, the weed-wacker, and a long row of GAS CANS. Big huge 5 gallon gas cans. Just asked hubby, we have four, 5 gallon gas cans, and 2 of the smaller size gas cans. This isn't rocket science. Speaking of, that lady astronaut who drove from Texas to Florida, didn't she carry a gas can or two to refuel? Along with her depends?

3 & 4 totally agree.

5 Totally agree, I'm thinking Judge Stephens, whom I really like, isn't feeling too good tonight about 'speeding things along.' :(

6 I don't see the big deal about the second pair of shoes. Look at it this way, show me a couple of criminals where one wears hush puppies and the other buys his shoes at Dollar General? I'm of the stick Jason's ugly feet up next to the size tens.

7 Next time put a different detective on important first degree murder cases. Get the big teddy bear from Cary. :banghead:

8 Don't pay any attention to those who think Boz is brash or what ever. It's call 'cross exam' for a reason. Bears repeating:

Learn How To Do Aggressive Cross Exams - and Then Do Them! -- passive cross-exams in a capital murder case have no place. Don't be afraid to really dig in and nail someone's hiney to the wall. If the defendant gets on the stand, unleash some holy he!! and keep him on that stand. The jury can handle it.[/QUOTE]


That about sums it up. And play that 911 tape frame by frame, pointing out all the background talking Cas is doing. IMO
 
What about the email to his sister where he said he hoped they didn't arrest anyone.

Why? He didn't ask how Michelle died. He didn't ask LE how they were doing in the case. He didn't offer to help LE. But he told his sis he hoped they didn't arrest anyone? :eek:

Perhaps they didn't win any points with the 'affairs.' But if they showed the timing, how they seemed to accelerate until the murder!? I think the timing of the affairs was lost in all this.

IF they want to see JY as a liar, IF he were to testify again, they should ask the jury in around about way, if he couldn't be truthful to his wife, the mother of his child and the mother of his unborn son, how does he expect us to believe anything he says?

I think they should bring up the life insurance too. Not only that, but how he didn't apply for it because it 'would look bad for him.' Just like he wouldn't testify or make a statement to keep his daughter. OR he wouldn't talk to LE to help find his wife's killer.

Then we're supposed to believe him!? His excuse for everything that points towards his guilt? His excuse. Holding someone's finger was a first responder? which is why he looked up head trauma!? OMG, I can't believe anyone would fall for that one!

Sorry, these should have been emphacized and HOPEFULLY they try again and use them!

fran
 
borndem said:
What about the dog? Where was he? We know he slept on his dog bed on the master bedroom floor beside JY. Where was he? Would he willingly follow a couple of strangers down the hall and let them shut him in another room or closet?

Or would the burglars just let him roam around the room while they brutally killed his mistress despite hearing her screams and seeing her struggle and then gurgle in her own blood and die? And where were his bloody footprints? Yes, jurors, what about the dog and the strangers?
Click to expand...

Seriously you guys need to write this all to them! Brilliant you guys!!!
 
fran said:
What about the email to his sister where he said he hoped they didn't arrest anyone.

Why? He didn't ask how Michelle died. He didn't ask LE how they were doing in the case. He didn't offer to help LE. But he told his sis he hoped they didn't arrest anyone? :eek:

Perhaps they didn't win any points with the 'affairs.' But if they showed the timing, how they seemed to accelerate until the murder!? I think the timing of the affairs was lost in all this.

IF they want to see JY as a liar, IF he were to testify again, they should ask the jury in around about way, if he couldn't be truthful to his wife, the mother of his child and the mother of his unborn son, how does he expect us to believe anything he says?

I think they should bring up the life insurance too. Not only that, but how he didn't apply for it because it 'would look bad for him.' Just like he wouldn't testify or make a statement to keep his daughter. OR he wouldn't talk to LE to help find his wife's killer.

Then we're supposed to believe him!? His excuse for everything that points towards his guilt? His excuse. Holding someone's finger was a first responder? which is why he looked up head trauma!? OMG, I can't believe anyone would fall for that one!

Sorry, these should have been emphacized and HOPEFULLY they try again and use them!

fran
Click to expand...

Yes, yes and yes! Hit that insurance. Hit lying the way you said. Hit that he didn't even do a walk-through with LE to point out what was missing (!) and to show them what looked out-of-place. And just like BC, did he even ask how, or when or why when he found his pregnant wife was dead? How/where is my daughter? Is she okay? Car wreck? Struck by lightning? Bitten by a copperhead? Did she fall & drown in a well? Choke to death on her fattening Special K? Kidnapped by Martians?

Why didn't they publish and make a big deal of the JY & KY emails? Indeed, Fran. (Could they not present it because she was not there? Izzat why she wasn't there? Well, heyell, subpeona her and discuss those emails!
Great and (potentially, if done right) aggressive list, Fran.
 
Talk about the physical act of the murder and its brutality.

Show the mouth that he had lovingly kissed at the wedding -- here it is on the murder room floor. This mouth that had kissed her daughter goodnight and told her Curious George and Dora the Explorer stories, and taught her to count and say her ABC's. Never more will that happen. Now Cy will not have her to sing silly songs with. Show the clothes she was wearing when she bled to death in them.

Show a picture of Michelle smiling and pretty and showing her pretty white teeth. Then compare it with a picture of the scene which shows as much of her face as possible. If possible, show on that picture where this & that tooth were found on the floor. Make it real and chilling and full of hate.

He bludgeoned her with a weapon. At least 30 blows. Who overkills someone he/she/they do(es) not know? Talk about the savagery, the blood, the teeth found how far away from her mouth? How many teeth were found on the floor? Where was bone protruding through her jaw, her skull, her neck (or wherever it protruded). How big was the circle of blood on the carpet or the bed? Was it still wet when you (LEO) arrived at the scene? How far away from the body was the farthest speck of blood?

Explain that she probably suffered from these wounds until her heart could beat no longer and until her brain ceased to think.

Before & After pictures.
 
CrimeAddict said:
Seriously you guys need to write this all to them! Brilliant you guys!!!
Click to expand...

the prosecution team had as many days months and years to get this right as jason had to come up with his story. i knew when holt said that's all i have this wasn't good. i had hope after the closing arguments but holt really screwed up the cross of jason. :banghead:
 
omgosh I've just now learned it was hung

after watching the prosecution performance though, I'm not surprised ... just incredibly sad that justice failed
 
borndem:

Your post is chilling. This is like something I said earlier, they didn't humanize Michelle enough. Did they play any videos of a smiling Michelle with C? I didn't see the beginning of the trial, so I'm not sure if they did. They should have when they had either MF or LF on the stand.

Then I heard a few minutes of the Nancy Grace program tonite talking about the Anthony Case. She said she thinks that defense needs to bring Caylee back to the forefront of what the trial is about, the murder of that beautiful child! I thought, that's what they should have done here!

I'm still reeling from this decision by the jury and judge today. I'm not saying they're wrong with what they had. They followed the rules and did their job. It's just I honestly feel this guy did it and I can't bear the thought of him getting away with it. I just can't.

I hope the pros sees they MAY HAVE a chance of getting him if they retry him. But if it was 8 NG and 4 G, they may feel it won't matter and let him go. :(

That would be heartbreaking. :(

Anyway, you're right, they need to make the jurors look at those pictures and compare them to what Michelle SHOULD have looked like and what the prose feels, this man DID to her. Overkill. Rage. Who does that except someone who hated her?!

FWIW, I attended the closing statements in the Samantha Runnion case here in California. I was with several other Websleuthers. The pros showed stills to the jurors of little Samantha's body of how it was.......placed when she was discovered. They didn't show it to anyone other than the jury. (unfortunately, one Websleuther could see it and had to leave the courtroom and didn't come back and left at break. :() ...............Anyway, they kept Samantha on the minds of the jury. That wasn't done here. It became about JY, perhaps because he testified, and NOT about the murder of Michelle Young.

JMHO
fran
 
You've all got this down! Wonderful summary. The focus on how unreasonable it is for all of these "happenings" (I refuse to use "coincidence") to occur on the SAME night, is imperative. I'd pay for the shirts if you all want to meet at the next trial and wear shirts with all of the happenings on them? I'd like to be "I throw all my clothes away on business trips". I think GracieLee should be "I know of 153 places to get gas between Hillsdale and Birchleaf". Madeline should be "I saw 50 cigarette butts outside of this courthouse. That definitely means I'm not here". Fran: "You think I should help LE to find my wifes murderer? You came here for THAT?" Borndem "I'd give up my daughter, my assets, and the hunt for my wifes killer to protect myself, too." JTF: wears black tee with white stripe "I have 2 of these. One is with a bat, rings, and size 12 hush puppies in a dumpster." Lastly: BH wears "I'm bad, but someone here is worse."

Haha hope ya'll get a chuckle, and then realize that we should really do this. Ill drive from Michigan. :woohoo:
 
I have been a lurker throughout this trial, and my heart is broken for the Fishers today! If JY is innocent provided all of the coincedences that occurred during this trial, and while he was out of town, he may just be the unluckiest guy in the world! How does that happen? Answer.....it doesnt. The fact that he never sought information whatsoever about his wife's murder says enough for me. I have been separated from my husband, father of my children for 3 years, (no feelings for him at all romantically), but if he were MURDERED, I would be begging for information about who on earth would do this! I would be shouting from Brevard mountaintops til someone would tell me why this had happened! Why did he never inquire? His own sister said she never asked him about this? Helllllo! Why? Family, friends, never asked him? Because they were afraid of the truth!!!!! They knew he was capable! IMOO! all that jazz!
I just cant even believe today, I had such high hopes! :<(
 
Oh, and one more thing!

They need to call JTF and have them show them their pictures. Show them how to present evidence. Heck, they didn't have a VIEW of the back doors to see how it was impossible for him to have gotten 'TWIGS!' But JTF posted their's here on Websleuths.

And how JTF inhanced the photo of JY with the gloves! I can't believe the pros didn't inhance that photo! :eek:

JMHO
fran
 
LOL, the number one rule when it comes to murder,

"There are no coincidences when it comes to murder."

fran
 
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