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Thread: Compiled info contributed by coldcaseman

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    Compiled info contributed by coldcaseman

    These are compiled posts made by coldcaseman starting at the most current. Some post are cut, I tried to just copy all the *important* stuff. I asked coldcaseman if he minded if I posted this and he was fine with it
    This should help answer any questions anyone may have without having to go through all the threads. Although I encourage you to read those to when time allows it!

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    We provided Meridian PD with Lyle's picture and his information. The staff was shown the photo and they checked recent records for that name. I would assume that not much more (like contacting guests) would have been done. If this had been a Homicide or a serious crime, there would have been a deeper inquiry. The Meridian Police Officers didn't recognize the photo. He may have stayed at the Motel (using his real name), and whoever checked him in maybe didn't pay attention to what he looked like. I've found that, unless the person had unusual features or mannerisms, many clerks, waitstaff, etc. can't identify people after a few days. 06-29-2009

    I'm not sure, as it is in evidence. The Daily World is your typical small town newspaper, about 8-10 pages of mostly local news. I went through the paper thoroughly, and it was properly folded, all of the pages were in order, nothing had been removed, and there were no marks on it. He didn't even work the crossword puzzle. If Lyle read it, he was very neat about it. 06-02-2009

    The newspaper is in the Sheriff's evidence room. I recall that the front page carried stories about the terrorist attack. The tv wasn't on, and the motel didn't offer in room movies. I believe they only had cable. 06-01-2009

    He was circumcised. Nothing in tox to indicate he used drugs, and no indications in the motel room, in his clothing, or in his body that he was a smoker.02-08-2009

    I don't recall seeing any smudges on the bedding. That might be shadows looking like smudges. It appeared that he had slept in the bed. No one saw anybody else coming or leaving his room, although it is possible. His blue plaid shirt was tossed onto the chair, as though he did that just before he hung himself. The bedspread was placed over the front window curtains to block out the light. I honestly don't know if Lyle was gay, although if he was, that could be a motivating factor 02-09-2008

    We had a complete autopsy, took fingerprints to run through AFIS, took a DNA sample to run through CODIS, had a dentist put a dental chart together for NCIC. 01-21-2008

    While it is probable that he used the name of a character in a book, we can't overlook the possibility that it could just be a coincidence, and that his name is Stevik or Stevick, or some variation of that name. 12-10-2007

    There was nothing to suggest that he was a smoker. No indications in the lungs, no staining of the teeth or fingers, and nothing on his clothing or in the motel room. 11-15-2007

    The age range was determined by the dentition, as well as cranial sutures. I don't know of any way you can get an exact age for adults. We want to have a range, so possible candidates won't be excluded due to the listed age 9-30-2007

    His DNA profile was run through CODIS, to be compared with DNA from unsolved crimes and missing persons, with negative results 9-29-2007

    Lyle did not have a chin implant. I also concluded that he was not Todd Frazier. The nose, ears, eye color don't match, and Lyle didn't have a scar over his eye, on his foot, and there was no indication that his ears had been pierced 09-27-2007

    Yes, they were run through the FBI, RCMP, and AFIS (Automated Fingerprint Identification System). I ran them through AFIS on the chance that, even if Lyle had never been arrested or had his fingerprints on file, he might have committed a crime where fingerprints were located, but it was an unsolved crime. His fingerprints weren't in any of the systems. 09-23-2007

    You are correct. He filled out the registration and the "for the room" note with his usual handwriting. I believe he wrote out "suicide" in formal block letters to see how it looked. It is like people who shoot themselves will fire two shots, one into the air, and one into themselves. They are getting their courage up, seeing how loud the shot will be, make sure everything is working, etc. You are going to kill yourself, so you write out what you are going to do, to see the word in print. Either that, or I had wondered if he had written a letter to family or friends informing them that he wouldn't be coming home, and he wanted to make sure he spelled suicide correctly. I don't support that theory as much now, as he would have written it in his usual handwriting. Plus, there was no indication that he had envelopes, stamps, and such. The finality of seeing the word in print makes more sense. 09-22-2007

    I'm not saying that it hasn't been tried, but in Lyles case, one or more people find a man who registered under an assumed name (someone who does not have a criminal record), they somehow contact him and prepare the room by placing the bedspread over the window curtains, place pillows between the coat rack and the wall to prevent the rack from banging against the wall, write the note in the same handwriting as is on the registration form, force Lyle to take his belt, put it around his neck (with a wash cloth placed between his adams apple and the belt), tie the end of the belt to the rack, and lower himself so that his knees are almost touching the floor. All this, with no noises, no head injury (where he may have been knocked out), and no drugs in his system. You're giving criminals way too much credit. I've seen staged crimes, and no one is this thorough. They always overlook details. 02-23-2007

    Correct. During suspension hangings, there are involuntary jerks and movement. The internal fight for survival. The belt came up in front of his face, and the slight abrasion probably came from that. I saw a video tape once where a man filmed his own hanging. He put the noose around his neck while standing on the floor, then bent his knees, very much like Lyle did. The body suddenly slumped, and you could tell the man was unconscious, yet for the next minute his arms moved, and his hands struck and brushed up against his face and neck, clumsily trying to grab the noose. The movements diminished, then stopped. The mark on Lyles neck was consistent with a hanging, as opposed to a strangulation, and I doubt a murderer would leave $120 on the nightstand with a note that read "for the room". 02-27-2007

    No long distance telephone calls were listed, and he received no calls. 11-07-2006

    Yes, I had checked the first room. There was no indication he had done anything with the first coatrack. It was noisier in the first room, as it was on the end of the building and closest to the highway and a trailer park. The second room was in the center of the motel. 11-06-2006

    I don't recall seeing any wear marks indicating a wallet or anything he usually kept in his pockets. 11-04-2006

    I recall his hair was straight and combed back. I felt he had some European or perhaps mid Eastern features. He is sort of an everyman.
    11-02-2006

    Tissue samples of Lyles organs were taken and examined microscopically. The Doctor found no diseases or medical conditions. As for my "theoretically" comment, no system is perfect, especially when you have computers operated by humans. I know of some cases where AFIS computers have missed. That's why I submitted his fingerprints twice. Unlike the AFIS computer on CSI, the real ones don't flash "match" on the computer screen. Instead, the computer comes up with a score for a print, based on the minutae or individual characteristics. What you get is a list of scores that come the closest to the score for your unknown prints. A person takes the list of scores, then pulls the fingerprint cards that belong to those individuals, and does a manual comparison. The person who actually belongs to the unknown prints may not be the #1 candidate, but could be way down on the list. 11-01-2006

    No xrays of Lyles skull 10-31-2006

    I heard from Lisa Hall at the Quinault Nation. She circulated the photo with no luck 10-30-2006

    Tahola is the main town in the Quinault nation. It is at the North end of Grays harbor 10-26-2006

    No indication of hair dye, his "cuffs and collar" matched. 10-23-2006

    His hands were not calloused, no indications of recent manicure, nails were trimmed and clean, no scars on the fingers. His hair was trimmed within a month or so prior to death, He combed it straight back.
    10-22-2006

    Posters were sent to the local tribes, but you're right. Sometimes they may not get to the right people. I can send them another. I just can't shake the feeling that he wasn't from Washington State, but probably from the mid West or farther East. 10-22-2006

    He was wearing boxers. Dark colored print, possibly JC Penny (as I recall). Stomach was empty, so his last meal was at least 5 hours before his death. 10-20-2006

    There were several "burger joints" close by, as well as a mini mart. There were no food wrappers in his trash, but there was a small soft drink cup (one with coke printed on the outside). He did probably eat during his stay, but didn't bring any food back with him.
    10-20-2006

    I had checked the name (both spellings) through Accurint, which is a much larger database available to Law Enforcement. There is a Lyle Stevick in Oregon. He is an older gentleman who was alive and well, and not missing any relatives. There were some Steviks from the East coast, but no Lyles.10-19-2006

    I couldn't find a brand name on the belt. On the inside are the words "genuine leather made in USA" along with "7301" and "L31". The buckle isn't silver, there are no markings on it.
    10-18-2006

    The closest airport is Sea Tac (Seattle), about 140 miles North. There is a small airport in Hoquiam (40 miles away), but doesn't have commercial flights. I wasn't able to locate any bus passengers. We had put the information in the local paper, but no one called saying they had seen him. In hindsight, alot more effort should have been put into neighborhood interviews, etc. but it was obviously a suicide of a person who did not appear to be a "street person". I had investigated many deaths where the next of kin hadn't seen the person for years. I strongly believed that Lyle would be reported missing by his family. Concerning the pacing, the motel is next to US HWY 101, a two lane road. The manager saw Lyle walking or pacing up and down the road. She "thought" he had a backpack with him when he checked in. It appears that she didn't pay attention when she checked him in. There was no jewelry, and no tan lines indicating he had worn jewelry recently 10-17-2006

    The address is for a motel in Meridian, Idaho. No one there, nor the Police, recognized Lyle. The bus drivers were interviewed, but neither specifically remembered Lyle. The handwriting style, a cross between cursive and block printing, is a style I have seen from people with a medical background. People who are writing quickly, and they tend to not pick the pen off of the paper as they make the individual lines in a letter. The "suicide" was written more carefully. He may have written it out to see what it looked like, or he had thought about making a sign for whoever found him and decided against it. As for the towel, he wanted his last moments to be comfortable. It does show he put alot of thought into it. I have investigated a number of suicides where towels or clothing were placed between the ligature and the neck. 10-16-2006

    I believe you're right. He wrote "ID" and she at least got the name of the city from him, but she didn't know how to spell it. 10-09-2006

    Blood samples were sent to the State crime lab, where a DNA profile was obtained and run through CODIS, in the chance that Lyle may have committed a crime (such as rape) where his DNA would be in the unsolved database. It was also checked against the felon database, even though his fingerprints would have been on file, but there was no match. A sample was also sent to the University of North Texas missing person/unidentified database. Additional testing to estimate ethnicity wasn't done due to cost factors. I prefer not to focus on a particular race, but to look at all missing persons records. 10-08-2006

    The suicide printing was slightly larger, and was more distinct. The paper was crumpled and thrown in the trash can. I had speculated that he either wrote the word out because he wasn't sure if he was spelling it right, or he had written it as a sign, so that whoever found him would know that ir was a suicide. He then realizes that it will be obvious what has happened, so he discards the note. You are right, there is a distinct change in handwriting.
    10-08-2006

    I'm trying to make arrangements to examine the belt. I don't recall seeing a manufacturers name, but I'll double check. The belt was not wide, about 1 1/2 inches. I felt the buckle had sort of a western look to it.
    10-07-2006

    He did look very thin. His clothing seemed to be hanging on his frame (although that seems to be a popular style). The clue to me that it wasn't necessarily his style was the belt. Using all of the notches leads me to believe he lost the weight, but continued to wear the larger size.
    10-04-2006

    No one mentioned that Lyle had a lazy eye. 10-02-2006

    The maid said she "thought" Lyle was praying, but I'm sure the knew what had happened, and she called the manager. There was lividity in his hands and lower legs where the blood had settled. The eyes looked alittle puffy from pushing the eyelids open. There was no puffiness to his eyes or face when I first saw him. The crisp bills suggest he either just got them from an ATM, or had them in a wallet or packed away. He didn't have them shoved in his pocket. I don't know if the Sheriffs Department would pay for a new sketch, but I'll check. The Doenetwork did one for free (because they don't show actual pictures). I prefer the actual photo, but I understand news agencies not wanting to upset viewers. I tried to get our local paper to run Lyles photo, but they ran the sketch instead, saying the photo was too graphic, and yet the same day the sketch ran, they showed the photo of a dead Iraqi 14 year old boy. Go figure. 10-01-2006

    Due to the circumstances, I recall we believed he had been dead around 8-12 hours, which would have been in the early morning hours. The lights were on in his room, and he put the bedspread over the window curtain so that no light was leaking out.10-01-2006

    Lyle doesn't fit the norm of the suicides I have investigated. The majority of them killed themselves at home, in their car, somewhere they feel comfortable. Very few have put this much forethought into it, which leads me to believe he is well educated. He didn't kill himself right away, he spent his last few days probably analyzing his situation. He probably read the paper to keep up on national events, such as the attacks, to confirm his decision to end his life. He may have just wanted something to read. If a person really wanted to disappear, they could walk miles into the woods (Grays Harbor is 1,900 square miles of woods). Lyle wanted his body to be found, to be taken care of, to be buried. I believe he just didn't want to burden his family. I handled a case years ago where the body of an older man was found on a hilltop outside a small town. The person had shot himself in the head. There was no identification, no jewelry, nothing. We put a description in the local paper. A woman called to tell us a male friend she grew up with had moved to Arizona years ago. The caller was friends with the mans wife, and the wife had informed the friend her husband had disappeared a month before. He left his truck, clothing, everything. We confirmed the dead man was the missing person from Arizona. Somewhere along the way, he disposed of his wallet, watch, and wedding ring, bought a bus ticket to Grays Harbor (to where he grew up years before) and killed himself. He was suffering some medical problems, and didn't want to burden his wife, so he chose to disappear. We know that Lyle isn't from Grays Harbor, but he may have lived here at one time, may have visited, or just went as far West as he could go. 09-30-2006

    Only about 15% of people who commit suicide leave a note, which is so sad. The loved ones left behind are left with so many questions. I believe Lyle did notify his family, he just didn't leave a note for us. I have investigated several other suicides where people have come here from out of state, and had gotten rid of their identification, jewelry, etc. so they wouldn't "burden" their family with having to deal with the remains. I have always been successful in identifying them, until Lyle came along. The only lake close to the motel is Lake Quinault, which is very deep. We didn't search it, because we had no indication that a backpack was in there. Even if we did, it would be a needle in a haystack. I know of at least two people who drowned in the lake, and the bodies were never recovered. It is deep and very dark.
    9-30-2006


    I've reread the report and statements from the first Deputy at the scene. He had conducted interviews with the staff. When the maid knocked on the door Monday morning, she got no response, so she opened the door. She saw the man kneeling and "thought" he was praying. She called the manager, who arrived some time later (I'm not sure of the time frame, but I don't believe it was a long time) and found him hanging from the coat rack. I'm thinking he wasn't praying, but was hanging when she saw him. I'l describe the room to you, and what the maid saw: The unit is rather small, the door is located on the West wall on the South end. The rest of the West wall has a picture window. Just inside the door, there is a desk against the South wall. At the North wall is the bed, and East of the bed is a nightstand and a chair. On the East wall (South end) there is a door leading to the bathroom. North of that is a small refrigerator, and next to that in the North corner of the wall is a small alcove that holds the metal clothes rack. Lyle is facing the East wall. When the maid looked in, she saw his back. He would have appeared to be kneeling, with his arms to his sides, and his head tilted back as though he is looking towards the ceiling. The belt is wrapped around his neck, with the buckle at the front of his throat. The belt strap goes up over his chin to the metal clothes rack, forcing his head to tilt back. We didn't reinterview the maid, but in reading her description, I believe Lyle was already dead. When I arrived several hours later, rigor and lividity was present, and I had concluded he had died sometime earlier, perhaps Sunday. Once we established that it was a suicide, my main focus was on identification. 9-29-2006

    No backpack, but I only searched around the motel. The daily World most probably had stories about the attacks. There was nothing unusual about his paper, it wasn't folded a certain way indicating he focused on anything in particular. He tossed it into a trash can. For what it is worth, there was a Gideon bible in the nightstand. There was a bookmark in John 12, 13, 14 (pages 1050-1051). I don't know if Lyle was the one that was reading that passage. 09-29-2006

    Determining ethnic background by facial features can be unreliable. The pathologist suggested Native American or hispanic due to facial features as well as skin tone, but it's not an exacy science. Concerning the pants, I considered that Lyle just liked to wear larger sizes, but the belt tells a different story. All of the notches were stretched and worn, with the smallest size appearing to fit his waist. As he lost weight, he tightened his belt. My belts look similar, but it's because I'm expanding. I asked my wife to read the book and give me a synopsis. She informed me that Lyle considers and contemplates suicide, but doesn't go through with it. I miscommunicated that to the reporter. Now that I'm retired, I have the time to read the bok myself 9-28-2006

    I should add that Lyle was very thin. If he lost weight, it was over a period of time. The skin was not loose or sagging. It's possible he lost the weight due to depression. The pathologist found nothing medically wrong with him. 09-28-2006

    I'm sure glad I kept a copy of the case file. It has been awhile, and I was getting some of the facts twisted. I'll give you a timeline, and answer some of your questions. Lyle arrived at the motel on Friday, 9-14 aobut 4:30 PM. Two busses arrived at the location about the same time, and neither driver was sure if he was on board their bus. Lyle paid for one nights stay. The manager described him as polite, but didn't want to talk much. She thought he looked alittle spaced. He might have had a backpack, but the manager wasn't sure. He checked into unit#8 and took a shower. He complained that it was too noisy outside, so he was moved to unit#5. Sat. 9-15 the maid came to the door. He said that he was going to stay alittle longer, didn't need the room cleaned, but could use clean towels. Later in the day, the manager saw him pacing up and down the highway. She thought he was getting some exercise. On Sun 9-16 Lyle purchases the Sunday edition of the Daily World. The maid came by, and he sent her away. On Monday 9-17 in the morning the maid knocked on the door, but received no response. She entered the room and found him praying. He didn't talk to her, and she left. She later told the manager, who entered the room after noon and found that Lyle had hung himself. (for some reason I had recalled that he had been dead longer than that). When I arrived sometime later, rigor mortis was setting in. As for the questions: there was no alcohol or drugs in his system. The coat rack wasn't in an enclosed closet, but rather a small alcove in one corner of the living room. I never closely examined the belt, I'm making arrangements to do that. It is a leather belt with a silver colored buckly and a silver colored belt tip. It has a western look to it. I don't recall seeing any stationary in the room. 09-28-2006

    His appendix scar was old 09-27-2006

    No chest hair, some hair on legs and arms. Sparse hair on his chin. 09-27-2006

    As for the question posed by Scandi concerning the ridge on Lyles forehead that is not visible in the profile shot, I took the profile picture at the beginning of the autopsy. I took the face-on shot at the conclusion, after the skull had been opened. I pulled the scalp back into place in order to take that shot, and didn't see the wrinke of skin on his forehead. His forehead was smooth. 09-27-2006

    There was no place to eat at the motel, but there are places nearby. I don't recall anything being in his stomach at the autopsy. There was no wrappers from anything he might have purchased in his trash can. He took whatever change he had in his pocket, and put it in a desk drawer. After he wrote the note "for the room" he put the cap on the pen, and put the pen in his right front pants pocket. Habits. You're not even aware you're doing them 09-27-2006

    I could find no callouses on his hands, or scrapes or scars. Fingernails weren't chipped or broken, and no indications of a manicure. No tan lines either. During the time he spent there, he purchased a copy of the local newspaper, and probably some food (although no one recalled seeing him). I located some change in the drawer of the desk in the room. He had paid for one night, but when the maid came by the next day, he told the maid that he was staying a few more days. I think he was finishing up some loose ends, writing a letter, etc. I think he had been dead about 24 hours when we found him 9-27-2006

    I'm sorry, I didn't explain the term "missing ear lobes". They weren't removed, he never had them. Most people have lobes that droop (and seem to droop more when you get old!) A few people have no "lobe", which would make it tough to wear earrings. There was no book recovered, I found the connection to the book through a Google search. I bought the book through Amazon. I always felt Lyle was from a middle-upper income family. No signs he was involved in manual labor, no injuries, well read, articulate, clean, took care of his appearance, etc. I'm not saying that people from lower incomes don't have those traits, that was my impression 09-27-2006

    Yes, that is a small mole on the left side of his chin. That, plus the fact that he doesn't have ear lobes (the photos don't show that) makes it easy to go through photos of missing persons 09-26-2006

    No, just his underwear. He was in a unit on the end of the motel, and they moved him closer to the middle. There weren't many people checked in, and none of them remembered him. It was noisy in the first unit. I checked every web site I could find on missing persons to compare pictures. That doesn't mean I missed him in one of those. It was wierd that his clothes were clean, he was clean, and he took care of his teeth. 09-26-2006

    He has some sparse stubble, but had shaved within a few days. The age of 25 is an educated guess. He was at least 20, due to his dentition. His clothes and boots were in very good shape. Very clean and not damaged or worn. I could tell he had worn the belt for along time, as all of the belts notches had been used, as though he was losing weight, and kept tightening his belt. His clothing wasn't soiled from wearing a long time. I believe he discarded his belongings before he reached the motel, or in another dumpster besides the motels. The clerk thought he might have had a backpack, but wasn't sure. It's interesting that he asked to change his room, as the first one is next to a trailer park, and there was alot of noise. He took the bed spread off of the bed and draped it over the window curtain to insure no light would leak out. I've worked many suicides, but I've never had one who made sure his bill was paid. Suicide is a very selfish act, where the person is mostly thinking about themselves. 09-26-2006

    Go to thedailyworld.com. In the archives search field type "youmans". There is an article from Feb. on Lyles case. You can also go to seattletimes.com. In archives type "youmans dna". It is an article about my cold cases (not Lyles, but cold murder cases). 9-26-2006

    Amanda Park is on the North Shore of Lake Quinault, part of it is in the Olympic National park. It is in the Northern part of Grays Harbor county, about 25 miles North of Aberdeen/Hoquiam. I'm not surprised there isn't much about the motel on the internet. It is a small motel, what I would call a no tell-motel. The clerk didn't even ask to see Lyles identification, she just had him fill out his name and address on the back of the payment envelope. If you are from the East coast, you would think you couldn't get much further West. We would actually get people from other parts of the country who would come to Grays Harbor to commit suicide. It is their attempt to disappear, to keep the suicide as far away from loved ones as possible. 09-26-2006

    I examined room#8, but nothing seemed amiss. I don't recall checking for stationery. I think he was only in that room for a short time. Long enough to take a shower. Earlier, someone was asking about the bedspread over the curtain. Lyle may have done that because he wanted a totally dark room when he sleeps. The window curtain wasn't totally light blocking, and there may have been ambient light coming in. 9-26-2006

    Concerning the stationery, if there was any, he used it all up. The note he wrote "for the room" on was actually a comment card. 09-26-2006

    I was the Detective who investigated the Lyle Stevik case. I just retired a few months ago, and just found this site. To answer some previous posts: Lyle arrived by bus, possibly one that came from Port Angeles (south), but a bus came up from Aberdeen (northbound) and arrived about the same time. Neither driver was sure if he was on their bus. He arrived with no luggage, and there was no luggage, clothing, etc. in the motel dumpster. The book "you must remember this" deals with the main character considering suicide. I often if the web info from "Steven" concerning suspension hanging was Lyle. He may have come from Canada, as the clerk recalled that he had "a slight Canadian accent". The fact he wrote the word "suicide" on a piece of paper I found in the trash leads me to believe he wrote a letter home, telling someone of his intentions, that he was going to disappear, so they aren't looking for him. He may have been dying, or suffered from depression, as he lost a lot of weight, although nothing was found at the autopsy. I saw no indications that he ever wore a wedding ring. His eyes are open in the photos because I opened them, to make him look as alive as possible for the photo. He didn't tape the pillows to the wall on the coat rack, they were wedged between the rack and the wall. This was a very unusual case. I still work on it, just to make sure Lyles loved ones know what happened to him and where he is buried. I appreciate any help 09-26-2006

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    Posts by Coldcaseman in WA - Unidentified Male: "Lyle Stevik" post #2

    Posts by Coldcaseman in WA - Unidentified Male: "Lyle Stevik", Grays Harbor, 17 Sept 2001 - #2 -

    [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1190064#post1190064"]09-26-2006, 10:26 AM[/ame]
    I was the Detective who investigated the Lyle Stevik case. I just retired a few months ago, and just found this site. To answer some previous posts: Lyle arrived by bus, possibly one that came from Port Angeles (south), but a bus came up from Aberdeen (northbound) and arrived about the same time. Neither driver was sure if he was on their bus. He arrived with no luggage, and there was no luggage, clothing, etc. in the motel dumpster. The book "you must remember this" deals with the main character considering suicide. I often if the web info from "Steven" concerning suspension hanging was Lyle. He may have come from Canada, as the clerk recalled that he had "a slight Canadian accent". The fact he wrote the word "suicide" on a piece of paper I found in the trash leads me to believe he wrote a letter home, telling someone of his intentions, that he was going to disappear, so they aren't looking for him. He may have been dying, or suffered from depression, as he lost a lot of weight, although nothing was found at the autopsy. I saw no indications that he ever wore a wedding ring. His eyes are open in the photos because I opened them, to make him look as alive as possible for the photo. He didn't tape the pillows to the wall on the coat rack, they were wedged between the rack and the wall. This was a very unusual case. I still work on it, just to make sure Lyles loved ones know what happened to him and where he is buried. I appreciate any help.

    [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1190586#post1190586"]09-26-2006, 05:48 PM[/ame]
    Yes, I was the one that worked the scene. He used his leather belt, and it was fashioned similar to the one depicted in stevens story. He had placed a washcloth between the belt and his neck, to make it more comfortable. He then bend down, and his knees were almost touching the floor. Everything was consistant with suicide. Lividity was consistant with suspension hanging. There was no swelling on his face. The eye appears swollen due to my attempt to open his eyes and make him look "alive". All of his clothing were brands found in North America. I found nothing foreign. Another point that wasn't in the flier was that the $20 bills he left for the room were crisp, as though he had just gotten them from a bank. There is no bank nearby. As for Meridian Idaho, I sent his photos to the Meridian Police Department. They showed them to the employees, and no one recognized him. Neither did the Police. I'm thinking that he stopped there on his way through. I did a nationwide search for Lyle Stevik. I did find a Lyle Stevick in Oregon, who was still alive and well. I spent many hours on this case, even though there was no crime committed. Even though I believe that he has notified his family that there was no need to look for him, I want to be sure. He is buried in an unmarked grave at Fern Hill cemetary in Aberdeen, and that is not right.

    [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1190599#post1190599"]09-26-2006, 06:01 PM[/ame]
    Amanda Park is on the North Shore of Lake Quinault, part of it is in the Olympic National park. It is in the Northern part of Grays Harbor county, about 25 miles North of Aberdeen/Hoquiam. I'm not surprised there isn't much about the motel on the internet. It is a small motel, what I would call a no tell-motel. The clerk didn't even ask to see Lyles identification, she just had him fill out his name and address on the back of the payment envelope. If you are from the East coast, you would think you couldn't get much further West. We would actually get people from other parts of the country who would come to Grays Harbor to commit suicide. It is their attempt to disappear, to keep the suicide as far away from loved ones as possible.

    [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1190617#post1190617"]09-26-2006, 06:14 PM[/ame]
    Go to thedailyworld.com. In the archives search field type "youmans". There is an article from Feb. on Lyles case. You can also go to seattletimes.com. In archives type "youmans dna". It is an article about my cold cases (not Lyles, but cold murder cases). I've never turned down help from any source. I would just love to find out who Lyle was.

    09-26-2006, 07:00 PM
    He has some sparse stubble, but had shaved within a few days. The age of 25 is an educated guess. He was at least 20, due to his dentition. His clothes and boots were in very good shape. Very clean and not damaged or worn. I could tell he had worn the belt for along time, as all of the belts notches had been used, as though he was losing weight, and kept tightening his belt. His clothing wasn't soiled from wearing a long time. I believe he discarded his belongings before he reached the motel, or in another dumpster besides the motels. The clerk thought he might have had a backpack, but wasn't sure. It's interesting that he asked to change his room, as the first one is next to a trailer park, and there was alot of noise. He took the bed spread off of the bed and draped it over the window curtain to insure no light would leak out. I've worked many suicides, but I've never had one who made sure his bill was paid. Suicide is a very selfish act, where the person is mostly thinking about themselves.

    Yes, that is a small mole on the left side of his chin. That, plus the fact that he doesn't have ear lobes (the photos don't show that) makes it easy to go through photos of missing persons.

    [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1190745#post1190745"]9-26-2006, 07:53 PM[/ame]
    No, just his underwear. He was in a unit on the end of the motel, and they moved him closer to the middle. There weren't many people checked in, and none of them remembered him. It was noisy in the first unit. I checked every web site I could find on missing persons to compare pictures. That doesn't mean I missed him in one of those. It was wierd that his clothes were clean, he was clean, and he took care of his teeth.

    [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1191507#post1191507"]9-27-2006, 12:53 PM[/ame]
    I'm sorry, I didn't explain the term "missing ear lobes". They weren't removed, he never had them. Most people have lobes that droop (and seem to droop more when you get old!) A few people have no "lobe", which would make it tough to wear earrings. There was no book recovered, I found the connection to the book through a Google search. I bought the book through Amazon. I always felt Lyle was from a middle-upper income family. No signs he was involved in manual labor, no injuries, well read, articulate, clean, took care of his appearance, etc. I'm not saying that people from lower incomes don't have those traits, that was my impression.

    [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1191730#post1191730"]09-27-2006, 03:59 PM[/ame]
    I could find no callouses on his hands, or scrapes or scars. Fingernails weren't chipped or broken, and no indications of a manicure. No tan lines either. During the time he spent there, he purchased a copy of the local newspaper, and probably some food (although no one recalled seeing him). I located some change in the drawer of the desk in the room. He had paid for one night, but when the maid came by the next day, he told the maid that he was staying a few more days. I think he was finishing up some loose ends, writing a letter, etc. I think he had been dead about 24 hours when we found him.

    [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1191993#post1191993"]9-27-2006, 07:16 PM[/ame]
    There was no place to eat at the motel, but there are places nearby. I don't recall anything being in his stomach at the autopsy. There was no wrappers from anything he might have purchased in his trash can. He took whatever change he had in his pocket, and put it in a desk drawer. After he wrote the note "for the room" he put the cap on the pen, and put the pen in his right front pants pocket. Habits. You're not even aware you're doing them

    [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1192121#post1192121"]9-27-2006, 08:52 PM[/ame]
    Concerning the shape of the skull, Native American and Asian skulls are very similar (high cheek bones, etc.) and I believe that Lyle is at least part Native American. While I was with the Sheriffs Department, I checked the name Lyle Stevik through a variety of web sites and sources with no luck. That's not to say their isn't a Lyle Stevik out there (possibly in Canada) but I was unable to find one. Lyle has a "unibrow" which is also somewhat unusual.
    As for the question posed by Scandi concerning the ridge on Lyles forehead that is not visible in the profile shot, I took the profile picture at the beginning of the autopsy. I took the face-on shot at the conclusion, after the skull had been opened. I pulled the scalp back into place in order to take that shot, and didn't see the wrinke of skin on his forehead. His forehead was smooth

    Posts by Scandi
    [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1192028#post1192028"]Link to post 51[/ame]
    Originally Posted by scandi
    That's funny Annemc. as I did the same type research by Googling and also found out it is a genetic condition that causes this and happens at a certain stage of development.

    Today I've been trying to figure out how to distinguish between Native American Indians as far as facial characteristics, with not much luck so far. I did come upon this study thought which is interesting in that one of the ways to distinguish if one has indian ancestry is large heavy earlobes. And I did read somewhere yesterday that often indians have a problem with hair growing on their earlobes! Anyhoo, here it is: direct link to PDF


    [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1192076#post1192076"]Link to post 53[/ame]
    It is something personal about it I guess, in that I know Quinalt Lake and have been to the Lodge - it is incredible - and we are talking with the investigator who opened Lyle's eyelids for his photograph so he could be ID'ed. Then he put his soal into working to that end ever since he found him that day. Pretty special if you ask me, as Coldcaseman conveys a total attitude about Lyle that has his 30 years of investigating behind it.

    I think there must be certain characteristics that are particular to American Indians by their sect {? I know it is not tribe, but maybe classification of Navaho, Seminole, etc.}. I have had trouble even Googling this type of info. There is an atlas of different American Indians, and that might really help to look at photos.

    Has anyone noticed his forehead? In the straight on photo it looks like it has some undulation to it. Not nobs of bone, but not pure curved bone that is smooth. I don't see that in the profile shots for some reason, so it could be shadowing.

    Driving home awhile ago I stopped to let a guy cross an area, and he was very skinny and tall - over 6". I immediately thought about Lyle and from his photos it is hard to imagine him being so tall.

    I also looked at the sight 'Find Missing Children, and thanks Ryno for that , and ran through all of them to get a bearing for missing young adults. I was struck how I found Lyle quite unique among the group of say 30 missing people. He just stood out vividly to me. One thing, he does look very sad in his photos.

    Posts by Coldcaseman
    [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1192195#post1192195"]9-27-2006, 09:33 PM[/ame]
    No chest hair, some hair on legs and arms. Sparse hair on his chin.

    [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1192381#post1192381"]9-28-2006, 12:23 AM[/ame]
    His appendix scar was old. The motel isn't part of the Best Western chain. I agree he was educated. I'm not aware of Joyce Carrol Oates being required reading in High School. I believe he read it (possibly in college) and associated himself with Lyles character. In the book Lyle Stevik owned a furniture and the father of a family. He was depressed, and talked about going down into his basement, throwing a rope over a beam and hanging himself. However, he does not commit suicide. I feel our Lyle saw himself in the character. Keep it up!

    9-28-2006, 10:31 AM
    Determining ethnic background by facial features can be unreliable. The pathologist suggested Native American or hispanic due to facial features as well as skin tone, but it's not an exacy science. Concerning the pants, I considered that Lyle just liked to wear larger sizes, but the belt tells a different story. All of the notches were stretched and worn, with the smallest size appearing to fit his waist. As he lost weight, he tightened his belt. My belts look similar, but it's because I'm expanding. I asked my wife to read the book and give me a synopsis. She informed me that Lyle considers and contemplates suicide, but doesn't go through with it. I miscommunicated that to the reporter. Now that I'm retired, I have the time to read the bok myself.
    I should add that Lyle was very thin. If he lost weight, it was over a period of time. The skin was not loose or sagging. It's possible he lost the weight due to depression. The pathologist found nothing medically wrong with him.

    Coldcaseman opened the file & refresh his memory here-
    [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1193261#post1193261"]9-28-2006, 09:13 PM[/ame]
    I'm sure glad I kept a copy of the case file. It has been awhile, and I was getting some of the facts twisted. I'll give you a timeline, and answer some of your questions. Lyle arrived at the motel on Friday, 9-14 aobut 4:30 PM. Two busses arrived at the location about the same time, and neither driver was sure if he was on board their bus. Lyle paid for one nights stay. The manager described him as polite, but didn't want to talk much. She thought he looked alittle spaced. He might have had a backpack, but the manager wasn't sure. He checked into unit#8 and took a shower. He complained that it was too noisy outside, so he was moved to unit#5. Sat. 9-15 the maid came to the door. He said that he was going to stay alittle longer, didn't need the room cleaned, but could use clean towels. Later in the day, the manager saw him pacing up and down the highway. She thought he was getting some exercise. On Sun 9-16 Lyle purchases the Sunday edition of the Daily World. The maid came by, and he sent her away. On Monday 9-17 in the morning the maid knocked on the door, but received no response. She entered the room and found him praying. He didn't talk to her, and she left. She later told the manager, who entered the room after noon and found that Lyle had hung himself. (for some reason I had recalled that he had been dead longer than that). When I arrived sometime later, rigor mortis was setting in. As for the questions: there was no alcohol or drugs in his system. The coat rack wasn't in an enclosed closet, but rather a small alcove in one corner of the living room. I never closely examined the belt, I'm making arrangements to do that. It is a leather belt with a silver colored buckly and a silver colored belt tip. It has a western look to it. I don't recall seeing any stationary in the room. That should keep you busy for awhile!

    [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1193493#post1193493"]9-29-2006, 12:58 AM[/ame]
    I took post mortem prints and submitted them to the FBI and RCMP. The fingerprints are also in AFIS. It is possible that they weren't able to match the prints with a card on file. Just about anything is possible.
    To save time; a few posts below the one above
    No backpack, but I only searched around the motel. The daily World most probably had stories about the attacks. There was nothing unusual about his paper, it wasn't folded a certain way indicating he focused on anything in particular. He tossed it into a trash can. For what it is worth, there was a Gideon bible in the nightstand. There was a bookmark in John 12, 13, 14 (pages 1050-1051). I don't know if Lyle was the one that was reading that passage.

    I don't think you'll have much luck, but you can go to thedailyworld.com. It's a small town paper, and the search field will only let you search for specific items. The original newspaper is in the Sheriffs Dept. evidence room, but I don't recall any specific articles. They don't have a large personal column. Concerning the stationery, if there was any, he used it all up. The note he wrote "for the room" on was actually a comment card.

    I examined room#8, but nothing seemed amiss. I don't recall checking for stationery. I think he was only in that room for a short time. Long enough to take a shower. Earlier, someone was asking about the bedspread over the curtain. Lyle may have done that because he wanted a totally dark room when he sleeps. The window curtain wasn't totally light blocking, and there may have been ambient light coming in. I am impressed that so many people have taken an interest in this case. It is an unusual case, one I should have solved long ago.

    [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1194058#post1194058"]09-29-2006, 04:04 PM[/ame]

    I've reread the report and statements from the first Deputy at the scene. He had conducted interviews with the staff. When the maid knocked on the door Monday morning, she got no response, so she opened the door. She saw the man kneeling and "thought" he was praying. She called the manager, who arrived some time later (I'm not sure of the time frame, but I don't believe it was a long time) and found him hanging from the coat rack. I'm thinking he wasn't praying, but was hanging when she saw him. I'l describe the room to you, and what the maid saw: The unit is rather small, the door is located on the West wall on the South end. The rest of the West wall has a picture window. Just inside the door, there is a desk against the South wall. At the North wall is the bed, and East of the bed is a nightstand and a chair. On the East wall (South end) there is a door leading to the bathroom. North of that is a small refrigerator, and next to that in the North corner of the wall is a small alcove that holds the metal clothes rack. Lyle is facing the East wall. When the maid looked in, she saw his back. He would have appeared to be kneeling, with his arms to his sides, and his head tilted back as though he is looking towards the ceiling. The belt is wrapped around his neck, with the buckle at the front of his throat. The belt strap goes up over his chin to the metal clothes rack, forcing his head to tilt back. We didn't reinterview the maid, but in reading her description, I believe Lyle was already dead. When I arrived several hours later, rigor and lividity was present, and I had concluded he had died sometime earlier, perhaps Sunday. Once we established that it was a suicide, my main focus was on identification.

    I had sent fliers of Lyle to the Quinault Nation, and someone should have recognized him if he was a member. I had looked at the three missing people before. Robert Rock has Lyles "earlobes", but the rest of the ear is wrong.

    I'm sure most of you are aware, but the center for missing adults has the photos I took of Lyle. They are much better to work with than the sketch on the Doe network. Doenetwork doesn't show actual photos of dead people (and I really worked to make Lyle look alive), One thing I didn't do was comb his hair. When I first saw him, his hair was combed straight back.

    Only about 15% of people who commit suicide leave a note, which is so sad. The loved ones left behind are left with so many questions. I believe Lyle did notify his family, he just didn't leave a note for us. I have investigated several other suicides where people have come here from out of state, and had gotten rid of their identification, jewelry, etc. so they wouldn't "burden" their family with having to deal with the remains. I have always been successful in identifying them, until Lyle came along. The only lake close to the motel is Lake Quinault, which is very deep. We didn't search it, because we had no indication that a backpack was in there. Even if we did, it would be a needle in a haystack. I know of at least two people who drowned in the lake, and the bodies were never recovered. It is deep and very dark.

    That's the national average, but I know from personal experience it seems less than that. When there is no note explaining why someone took their own life, the ones left behind begin second guessing, thinking they should have seen clues. People who are depressed will suddenly be more upbeat, then a week later they will kill themselves. When you are depressed, you feel that you have no control. When you come to the realization that you can control one thing (ending your life) you no longer have any worries. Things don't bother you as they once did, because you know that soon, there will be no more pain. To those around you, there is a sense of relief that you have been able to work through your depression, when in fact you should be seeking professional help.

    Lyle doesn't fit the norm of the suicides I have investigated. The majority of them killed themselves at home, in their car, somewhere they feel comfortable. Very few have put this much forethought into it, which leads me to believe he is well educated. He didn't kill himself right away, he spent his last few days probably analyzing his situation. He probably read the paper to keep up on national events, such as the attacks, to confirm his decision to end his life. He may have just wanted something to read. If a person really wanted to disappear, they could walk miles into the woods (Grays Harbor is 1,900 square miles of woods). Lyle wanted his body to be found, to be taken care of, to be buried. I believe he just didn't want to burden his family. I handled a case years ago where the body of an older man was found on a hilltop outside a small town. The person had shot himself in the head. There was no identification, no jewelry, nothing. We put a description in the local paper. A woman called to tell us a male friend she grew up with had moved to Arizona years ago. The caller was friends with the mans wife, and the wife had informed the friend her husband had disappeared a month before. He left his truck, clothing, everything. We confirmed the dead man was the missing person from Arizona. Somewhere along the way, he disposed of his wallet, watch, and wedding ring, bought a bus ticket to Grays Harbor (to where he grew up years before) and killed himself. He was suffering some medical problems, and didn't want to burden his wife, so he chose to disappear. We know that Lyle isn't from Grays Harbor, but he may have lived here at one time, may have visited, or just went as far West as he could go.

    [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1195454#post1195454"]10-01-2006, 01:46 PM[/ame]
    The maid said she "thought" Lyle was praying, but I'm sure the knew what had happened, and she called the manager. There was lividity in his hands and lower legs where the blood had settled. The eyes looked alittle puffy from pushing the eyelids open. There was no puffiness to his eyes or face when I first saw him. The crisp bills suggest he either just got them from an ATM, or had them in a wallet or packed away. He didn't have them shoved in his pocket. I don't know if the Sheriffs Department would pay for a new sketch, but I'll check. The Doenetwork did one for free (because they don't show actual pictures). I prefer the actual photo, but I understand news agencies not wanting to upset viewers. I tried to get our local paper to run Lyles photo, but they ran the sketch instead, saying the photo was too graphic, and yet the same day the sketch ran, they showed the photo of a dead Iraqi 14 year old boy. Go figure.

    Scandi, the belt buckle was in the front of his throat, so the strap went up over his chin and in front of his face. Not typical, but very effective, with pressure being applied to both carotoid arteries, but not cutting off his windpipe. Livor mortis (lividity) and rigor mortis can help establish an approximate time of death. The signs begin to show about two hours after death. A better way to establish time of death is to obtain a liver temperature. The body cools at 1 1/2 degrees per hour (after a slight rise in body temperature). You can also check the potssium level in the eye fluid. There are a number of factors that can affect livor and rigor mortis (illness, room temperature or weather conditions, etc.) so, unlike what we see on tv, the best we can do is an estimate. If this had been a murder, it would have been critical to establish the time of death. Due to the circumstances, I recall we believed he had been dead around 8-12 hours, which would have been in the early morning hours. The lights were on in his room, and he put the bedspread over the window curtain so that no light was leaking out.

    You guys have been coming up with some good theories. I'm the first to admit my theories may not be right. I always try to put myself in the dead persons place and imagine what I would do. It doesn't always work, as people preparing to take their own life are not thinking logically.

    It appears that the article is written to entertain, but if you go to ash.spaink.net and read about Stevens suspension hanging (or search the web for steven suspension hanging), that was written to educate. Steven has carefully thought out his method of suicide, and the article was posted Sept. 11, 2001. It may have been written earlier. I can't help but wonder if Lyle is the Steven who wrote the piece.

    article in question link does not work
    docwho3
    What do you think of this allegedly fiction post I found? The post is titled "the button" and you find it by scrolling about half way down the page or you can do a find-it search within the page for "the button". It is a post about attempting suicide in a method similar to our victem.
    http://www.hotsandwich.blogspot.com/

    It is a sad state of affairs when these sites are available to anyone with a computer (especially children). While I investigated Lyles death, I scoured the internet for anything that could help me identify him. That's how I ran across the ASH site. I saw they had a "favorite method of the month" for committing suicide. The method involved inhaling helium inside a plastic trash bag. About a month later, one of the local Police Departments investigated a suicide involving this method. I had never heard of it before. I don't know if the young man got the information off of the ASH site or if it was just a coincidence

    We don't know if he was somehow involved with the attack on 9/11. Reports were forwarded to the FBI, in case he was connected in some way, but we never heard anything from them. I've always thought that Lyle suffered from depression, and the attacks may have been the straw that broke the camels back. I wouldn't be surprised if the national suicide rate went up in the weeks following the attacks.

    When I looked at the photo, it looked like Salvatore Mourra had earlobes, but now I'm not sure. I'll try to get my office to run his name through NCIC, and get his dental records. No one mentioned that Lyle had a lazy eye.

    [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1198371#post1198371"]10-04-2006, 01:12 PM[/ame]

    He did look very thin. His clothing seemed to be hanging on his frame (although that seems to be a popular style). The clue to me that it wasn't necessarily his style was the belt. Using all of the notches leads me to believe he lost the weight, but continued to wear the larger size

    If I've done this right, you should have some photos of Lyle showing his ear, and two photos of the money he left.
    Here are some of the pics that cold case man wanted to share with us.
    I hope and I think that I got the ones he wanted. Any mistakes in which pics to post are most likely my own mistakes.

    *Warning: Graphic Photos*
    http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...e/detlyle2.jpg
    http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...e/detlle3c.jpg
    http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...e/detlyle4.jpg
    http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...e/detlle5c.jpg

    I'm trying to make arrangements to examine the belt. I don't recall seeing a manufacturers name, but I'll double check. The belt was not wide, about 1 1/2 inches. I felt the buckle had sort of a western look to it.

    Lyle is laying down in both photos. He is still wearing the belt. Standard procedure is to leave the ligature on the body until it is removed by the pathologist.

    I have a photocopy of them (the notes), I'll see if I can get a digital photo of them posted.

    With ancient remains, there can be tell tale signs in the shape of the skull, and they could determine what tribe a person was from. Nowadays, it can be very difficult determining race, let alone a particular region or tribe with any degree of accuracy. It was felt at the time that he had some Native American features, but he also has some Caucasian ones as well.

    The three main classifications are Negroid, Caucasoid, and Mongoloid. Native Americans, Hispanics, and Asians are all in the mongoloid classification. alcoholism isn't more common among one race over another.

    handwriting pics
    http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...yle/suicd1.jpg
    http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...yle/room1b.jpg
    http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...yle/regis3.jpg
    http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...yle/regis2.jpg
    http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...le/regis1b.jpg

    The suicide printing was slightly larger, and was more distinct. The paper was crumpled and thrown in the trash can. I had speculated that he either wrote the word out because he wasn't sure if he was spelling it right, or he had written it as a sign, so that whoever found him would know that ir was a suicide. He then realizes that it will be obvious what has happened, so he discards the note. You are right, there is a distinct change in handwriting.


    .

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  7. #4

    Posts by Coldcaseman - #2 continued

    Posts by Coldcaseman -WA - Unidentified Male: "Lyle Stevik", Grays Harbor, 17 Sept 2001 - #2 continued

    [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1202539#post1202539"]10-08-2006, 02:26 PM[/ame]
    Originally Posted by grievousangel
    Since there are tissue and blood samples readily available and completely viable, I wonder if a complete DNA analysis has been done on this man. If not, it could be done but not without cost which could be prohibitive especially if the case has been relegated to the back burner so to speak. I know it is possible to determine certain basic types of ethnicity through the mitochondrial DNA...which is transmitted to every individual through the maternal line. Analysis of the Y chromosome for males only is also done rather routinely today...these tests can determine if this man has Native American and/or European ancestory. Males can have both the Y chromosome and mtDNA analysis done....the cost is I would think under $500, for the most basic of tests. The more refined testing done...the higher the price obviously. There are numerous labs doing this kind of testing now...here is one http://www.familytreedna.com/default.asp
    http://www.scientific.org/tutorials/...ley/riley.html

    Blood samples were sent to the State crime lab, where a DNA profile was obtained and run through CODIS, in the chance that Lyle may have committed a crime (such as rape) where his DNA would be in the unsolved database. It was also checked against the felon database, even though his fingerprints would have been on file, but there was no match. A sample was also sent to the University of North Texas missing person/unidentified database. Additional testing to estimate ethnicity wasn't done due to cost factors. I prefer not to focus on a particular race, but to look at all missing persons records.

    I was able to get Mr. Morra run through NCIC, in order to get his dental information, and I learned he is not in their database. There are some states that do not "belong" to NCIC (for whatever reason) and I don't know if LA is one of them. I e-mailed the Sheriff of Jefferson Parish, and asked him if Mourra had any tattoos and if they have dental records.

    The address is for a motel in Meridian, Idaho. No one there, nor the Police, recognized Lyle. The bus drivers were interviewed, but neither specifically remembered Lyle. The handwriting style, a cross between cursive and block printing, is a style I have seen from people with a medical background. People who are writing quickly, and they tend to not pick the pen off of the paper as they make the individual lines in a letter. The "suicide" was written more carefully. He may have written it out to see what it looked like, or he had thought about making a sign for whoever found him and decided against it. As for the towel, he wanted his last moments to be comfortable. It does show he put alot of thought into it. I have investigated a number of suicides where towels or clothing were placed between the ligature and the neck.

    The closest airport is Sea Tac (Seattle), about 140 miles North. There is a small airport in Hoquiam (40 miles away), but doesn't have commercial flights. I wasn't able to locate any bus passengers. We had put the information in the local paper, but no one called saying they had seen him. In hindsight, alot more effort should have been put into neighborhood interviews, etc. but it was obviously a suicide of a person who did not appear to be a "street person". I had investigated many deaths where the next of kin hadn't seen the person for years. I strongly believed that Lyle would be reported missing by his family. Concerning the pacing, the motel is next to US HWY 101, a two lane road. The manager saw Lyle walking or pacing up and down the road. She "thought" he had a backpack with him when he checked in. It appears that she didn't pay attention when she checked him in. There was no jewelry, and no tan lines indicating he had worn jewelry recently.

    I e-mailed a Detective with Meridian PD last night, asking him to circulate the photo around again to see if anyone recognizes Lyle

    [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1211163#post1211163"]10-18-2006, 11:14 PM[/ame]
    I couldn't find a brand name on the belt. On the inside are the words "genuine leather made in USA" along with "7301" and "L31". The buckle isn't silver, there are no markings on it.

    I had checked the name (both spellings) through Accurint, which is a much larger database available to Law Enforcement. There is a Lyle Stevick in Oregon. He is an older gentleman who was alive and well, and not missing any relatives. There were some Steviks from the East coast, but no Lyles.

    I was sure that Lyle Stevik was an assumed name, but I checked it out anyway, in the chance it was his real name. I continue to call him Lyle, because I feel John Doe is so impersonal.

    There were several "burger joints" close by, as well as a mini mart. There were no food wrappers in his trash, but there was a small soft drink cup (one with coke printed on the outside). He did probably eat during his stay, but didn't bring any food back with him

    He was wearing boxers. Dark colored print, possibly JC Penny (as I recall). Stomach was empty, so his last meal was at least 5 hours before his death.

    [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1213845#post1213845"]Page 8 Coldcaseman[/ame]
    I had no luck tracking down who Steve was. Apparently there was a delay on his posting, but the the timing and portions of his preferred method of suicide are too much of a coincidence to ignore. The man in the photo is most probably from the Makah tribe, located on the Olympic Penninsula. If Lyle is a descendent and a Makah member, someone from the tribe should have seen his flier

    Posters were sent to the local tribes, but you're right. Sometimes they may not get to the right people. I can send them another. I just can't shake the feeling that he wasn't from Washington State, but probably from the mid West or farther East- Not the individual tribes, but to the RCMP

    Someone would have called if he was local. No, I think he wanted to disappear, so he went as far from home that he could

    His hands were not calloused, no indications of recent manicure, nails were trimmed and clean, no scars on the fingers. His hair was trimmed within a month or so prior to death, He combed it straight back

    I always told people that Grays Harbor isn't the end of the earth, but if you stand on your tip toes, you can see it from here

    I wouldn't live anywhere else. We've got the Pacific Ocean, mountains, and a rain forest with old growth trees. Sure, you have to put up with a little rain, but hey, no hurricanes!

    [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1214841#post1214841"]Page 9 coldcaseman[/ame]
    No indication of hair dye, his "cuffs and collar" matched- A delicate way of saying the head and pubic hair are the same color

    Tahola is the main town in the Quinault nation. It is at the North end of Grays harbor. I have never seen the name "Hobuchet", but there are "Hobucket" families on the harbor.

    Theoretically, all servicemens fingerprints are on file with the FBI. They also obtain a DNA sample, but I don't think it is entered into CODIS

    The fingerprints were submitted to the FBI twice. I'll see if I can check with someone about military DNA being in CODIS. I doubt the military has dental charts in any type of searchable database

    [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1217536#post1217536"]Page 10 coldcaseman[/ame]
    Anthony Hobucket was alive as of 2004. He is not Lyle

    Here are some images of Lyle that Cold Case man wanted made available.
    The actual credit for reworking the image goes to someone else which I am sure cold case man can explain better than I, and a good job was done as we can see. I did resize the image and file size to help avoid going over the bandwidth usage allowed in photobucket free accounts.

    http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...le/lylfin2.jpg
    http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...le/lylfin3.jpg
    http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...le/lylfin4.jpg

    These last two have been made to show some added weight
    http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...le/hevlyl2.jpg
    http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...le/hevlyl3.jpg

    The pictures were created by David Morris, and I think he did a fantastic job. He widened the eyes a little, but they appear to be the same shape

    [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1219241#post1219241"]Page 11 coldcaseman[/ame]
    I've learned the hard way, to not get over anxious when you are trying to identify someone. Too many times in the past, I would come upon a possible name for one of my unidentified persons. Things would begin to fall into place, and I would get excited. When it would turn out that a missing person wasn't my unidentified, I would be devistated. I learned to be sceptical and take my time. Hurry up and wait. My unidentified lady is a murder victim found in the woods in 1988. I know if I could identify her, I will probably know who killed her. I call her my girlfriend, and my wife understands.

    You can go to thedailyworld.com, in the archives section type youmans. It was printed on 02-19-06, and has info on the murder victim in the woods. You can also go to theseattletimes.com, and in the archives section type youmans dna. That also has info on my cold cases that was printed on 02-09-06. I'd like to see what the group could come up with on my "girlfriends" case

    The artist,David Morris, who did the lyle pics has fine tuned the images a bit more.
    http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...e/replyl1c.jpg
    http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...e/replyl2c.jpg

    [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1220286#post1220286"]Page 12 coldcaseman[/ame]
    I heard from Lisa Hall at the Quinault Nation. She circulated the photo with no luck. She says Anthony Hobucket is alive and well, and that Lyle doesn't look like the Houckets she knows. Lisa is going to pass the photos along to the surrounding areas

    I confess I didn't read the book, but I asked my wife to. I believe your assessment of the book is correct. My theory is "Lyle" read the book, and somehow associated himself with Lyles character. Whether He was a victim of molestation or a molester may have been a factor in the suicide.

    I have always tried to keep a good working relationship with the Quinault Nation. There have been times we have worked together on cases, and I am sensitive to their traditions and beliefs. I strongly believe that if Lyle was one of their members, they would tell me, regardless of the circumstances of his death. They would not leave him in an unmarked grave forgotten

    [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1220961#post1220961"]Post by guy that did digital reconstruction- efxdavid[/ame]

    I did the digital reconstruction.

    The post mortem photos were not his "original look and hair" because they'd peeled his scalp forward and opened his skull for the autopsy. You can tell this from the folds that are visable on his forehead. When he was seen alive, Lyle's hair was worn in a comb-back, and was in that style when CCM found him. That's why I depicted it as a comb back. Course hair doesnt lay flat against the head when combed back either, it stands up a little.

    His ear lobes are also exactly how they are in the autopsy photos. I did not add anything to them.

    I would not change any identifying feature or bone structure.

    I cleaned up incision marks, smoothed his forehead-folds, replaced the grey sections of skin, and fixed the hair lines on the sides which had moved with the skin.
    The clothes that I depict him wearing are made to match the police report and the reference photos from the hotel room. I actually sampled the colors of the plad shirt off of a photo, and had CCM check them. The report listed a grey tshirt, and I put one of those on him in the reconstruction.

    I had to do extensive paintwork to open his eyes, but everything was done with constant reference to the photos, to match the eyelid line and shape and size of the orbital lobe and eye ball. The eye color comes from the portion of the iris that is visable in the photos. I refocused his eyes to get rid of the disturbing "dead-gaze."

    I also fixed his dried out lips and opened his mouth slightly, again, preserving the shape of the lips and mouth, yet making him look more alive. People's lips change shape and thickness slightly as they open their mouth or smile. Also, since Lyle had significantly nice teeth, I doubted that he would keep his lips tightly pursed. I was also extremely careful to not impose any personality on him, which is the goal of a reconsturction.

    I "warmed up" his skintone and lips for color correction to get rid of the excess yellow. Peoples' skin naturally has a yellow base tone, which, when alive, is normally offset by the red of blood.

    I removed a "rash" on his neck, chin, left side of his nose, and forehead, which was probably caused by friction against the belt that he hung himself from. It was too linear to be a skin condition.

    CCM said that there was no evidence that he'd colored his hair, so no change was made for that.

    Since it was aparent that he'd lost a good deal of weight in the recent past, I made a second version with an additional 40 lbs. The weight is reflected in his neck, cheeks, jowels and undereyes, it leaves his bone structure intact.

    I put him against an vague "nature-like" background because he was wearing Timberland boots, Levis, and a plad shirt. Also, the sugegstions of outdoors and color of trees makes the photo more "alive" than a flatly colored background.

    The comment was also made that he now looked "nerdy" in the reconstruction. Remember, we're talking about a 6'2" to 6'4", 140lb man who read Joyce Carol Oates novels, had callus-free hands, and no tan lines. This was not an Indian Warrior or a jock.

    davidmm

    [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1222873#post1222873"]More thoughts from Davidmm[/ame]

    I did the CGI reconstruction and have thought he looked
    Egyptian (mixed with American Indian) from the start. How did you
    find that picture?

    He's got a cleft in his chin.
    He's got hazel eyes.
    He's got attached earlobes.
    He's got full cheeks.
    He's got dark wavy hair.
    He's got fair skin.
    He's got wide set eyes.
    He's got sparse facial hair.

    From looking at the autopsy pics, it looked like Lyle's hair wasn't
    completely straight, but actually wavy. Native Americans tend to
    have completly straight hair, from what I've seen. Correct?

    CCM, was Lyle's hair actually straight? What do you think about
    these Egyptian simularities?

    [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1221397#post1221397"]Last posts by coldcaseman[/ame]
    No xrays of Lyles skull.

    Tissue samples of Lyles organs were taken and examined microscopically. The Doctor found no diseases or medical conditions. As for my "theoretically" comment, no system is perfect, especially when you have computers operated by humans. I know of some cases where AFIS computers have missed. That's why I submitted his fingerprints twice. Unlike the AFIS computer on CSI, the real ones don't flash "match" on the computer screen. Instead, the computer comes up with a score for a print, based on the minutae or individual characteristics. What you get is a list of scores that come the closest to the score for your unknown prints. A person takes the list of scores, then pulls the fingerprint cards that belong to those individuals, and does a manual comparison. The person who actually belongs to the unknown prints may not be the #1 candidate, but could be way down on the list.

    I recall his hair was straight and combed back. I felt he had some European or perhaps mid Eastern features. He is sort of an everyman

    I don't recall seeing any wear marks indicating a wallet or anything he usually kept in his pockets.

    As I understand it, to become a forensic pathologist, you first have to become a doctor, then it is an additional four years of medical school to become a forensic pathologist. While many larger areas have medical examiners (who are usually forensic pathologists) many areas have coroners, and the only requirement for the job is to get one more vote than your opponent. There are places where the county prosecuting attorney is also the county coroner. They have to rely on pathologists and forensic pathologists.

    Yes, I had checked the first room. There was no indication he had done anything with the first coatrack. It was noisier in the first room, as it was on the end of the building and closest to the highway and a trailer park. The second room was in the center of the motel.

    No long distance telephone calls were listed, and he received no calls.

    Originally Posted by LisainWV
    * Forgive me on this one, I can't shake the feeling that he was gay.
    * I also feel that he was estranged from his family and if he sent a letter to someone, it was a "lover" or equivalent. Maybe this person tossed the letter (not caring or wishing no contact with Lyle) and forgot about it.


    You may be right. The more I look at the "suicide" scrap of paper, the more I feel that he wasn't writing it out to make sure he was spelling it right (since the block printing is more deliberate than the other handwriting), but that he had prepared some type of sign alerting whoever found him that it was a case of suicide. He then discarded the note, probably realizing that it would be obvious what had happened. He very well may have been estranged from his family. They may not have seen him for years, nor have any idea where he is.

    I'm sure they cleaned the room, then rented it out again. Hotel rooms are a somewhat common place to commit suicide. Guaranteed privacy. Now, the next time you stay at a motel, you'll wonder

    They wouldn't like the publicity, so they don't discuss it. I think that after the Police and everyone leaves, they try to get things back to normal. It's unfortunate that their motel/hotel was chosen as the site for someone to end their life, but it does happen. Getting a reputation as a suicide spot is bad for business. At least Lyle didn't choose a messy way to go, and they found him quickly.

    People dying at you establishment always means bad publicity. Messy as in blowing his brains out.

    Sorry for being so graphic, but you can imagine how much of a mess there could be from certain methods of suicide. Lyle was very considerate in that respect.

    Originally Posted by outofthedark
    I think the laceration came during when he was dying

    Correct. During suspension hangings, there are involuntary jerks and movement. The internal fight for survival. The belt came up in front of his face, and the slight abrasion probably came from that. I saw a video tape once where a man filmed his own hanging. He put the noose around his neck while standing on the floor, then bent his knees, very much like Lyle did. The body suddenly slumped, and you could tell the man was unconscious, yet for the next minute his arms moved, and his hands struck and brushed up against his face and neck, clumsily trying to grab the noose. The movements diminished, then stopped. The mark on Lyles neck was consistent with a hanging, as opposed to a strangulation, and I doubt a murderer would leave $120 on the nightstand with a note that read "for the room".

    I've excluded many (probably a hundred). Still haven't excluded Chris Lane, but I don't think it's him. I believe I excluded Abramowitz. Different ears

    [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1349854#post1349854"]2-23-2007, 12:49 PM[/ame]

    I'm not saying that it hasn't been tried, but in Lyles case, one or more people find a man who registered under an assumed name (someone who does not have a criminal record), they somehow contact him and prepare the room by placing the bedspread over the window curtains, place pillows between the coat rack and the wall to prevent the rack from banging against the wall, write the note in the same handwriting as is on the registration form, force Lyle to take his belt, put it around his neck (with a wash cloth placed between his adams apple and the belt), tie the end of the belt to the rack, and lower himself so that his knees are almost touching the floor. All this, with no noises, no head injury (where he may have been knocked out), and no drugs in his system. You're giving criminals way too much credit. I've seen staged crimes, and no one is this thorough. They always overlook details.


    [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53628"]WA - Unidentified Male: "Lyle Stevik", Grays Harbor, 17 Sept 2001 - #3[/ame]

    [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1694204#post1694204"]1st post by coldcaseman in #3[/ame]

    Here is the Google map 1019 S Progress Ave, Meridian, ID 83642-3050[/QUOTE]



    .

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  9. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roselvr View Post
    Hope you don't mind me putting in what I did yesterday. I didn't realize you already had this one. I did links to the posts & images
    I don't mind one bit!! Thank you so much for taking the time to do all of this. I know it takes forEVER but can't wait to see #3 *wink* lol

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  11. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Babyslims View Post
    I don't mind one bit!! Thank you so much for taking the time to do all of this. I know it takes forEVER but can't wait to see #3 *wink* lol
    If I have time again; I'll work on #3. It's nice to have it handy on one post since he was there. Much easier then picking through a bunch of posts! lol

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  13. #7
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    is coldcaseman still around? anyone have an email address for him?

  14. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by njf520 View Post
    is coldcaseman still around? anyone have an email address for him?
    Last Activity: 10-29-2012

    [ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8516323#post8516323"]link to last post he made[/ame]

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  16. #9
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    Is there a thread for coldcasemans Youman murder

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  18. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azlaw View Post
    Is there a thread for coldcasemans Youman murder
    OMG did something happen to him?!

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  20. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by outofthedark View Post
    OMG did something happen to him?!
    Thank you. I was mobile last night when the post came in. This is the 1st I'm able to google. Thankfully; I do not see anything associated with his name that he is deceased.

    Quote Originally Posted by Azlaw View Post
    Is there a thread for coldcasemans Youman murder
    Please come back & clarify what you're asking.

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  22. #12
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    I also raced to google when I saw this question and didn't come up with anything either..


    I did find this copied from above.. Maybe Njf520 is inquiring about this post Coldcaseman made long ago?

    "Go to thedailyworld.com. In the archives search field type "youmans". There is an article from Feb. on Lyles case. You can also go to seattletimes.com. In archives type "youmans dna". It is an article about my cold cases (not Lyles, but cold murder cases). 9-26-2006"

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  24. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babyslims View Post
    I also raced to google when I saw this question and didn't come up with anything either..


    I did find this copied from above.. Maybe Njf520 is inquiring about this post Coldcaseman made long ago?

    "Go to thedailyworld.com. In the archives search field type "youmans". There is an article from Feb. on Lyles case. You can also go to seattletimes.com. In archives type "youmans dna". It is an article about my cold cases (not Lyles, but cold murder cases). 9-26-2006"
    Or the homicide victim found in Elma in 1988, that's the first thing that came to mind.

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  26. #14
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    Coldcaseman posted about an unite notified murdered woman that he wants to get solved. Is there a thread about that case? He has helped us so much I think we should work on his pet care for him.

  27. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azlaw View Post
    Coldcaseman posted about an unite notified murdered woman that he wants to get solved. Is there a thread about that case? He has helped us so much I think we should work on his pet care for him.
    You mean this?

    http://doenetwork.org/cases/330ufwa.html

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