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  1. #1
    Etilema's Avatar
    Etilema is offline Being kind to the cruel results in being cruel to the kind.
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    What if George really was involved?

    I've been thinking and thinking about why the jury might possibly have believed JB's spin that George is the bad guy in all of this. I know that they didn't have access to tons of info that we have been listening to and watching since the beginning--the recorded police interviews, the depositions, the media interviews--in which we formed our opinions of George. I see him as a poor liar (meaning that when he lies it is almost always obvious), not an instigator (goes along with what Cindy says, as Lee implied that he does, as well), insecure about his own worth and concerned about how he comes across to others, and very emotional, with a strong attachment to his family, although not intimately involved with his family members. Because of this impression, this image I have in my mind of who George is, JB's theory seemed patently absurd to me.

    But if I had been a juror, and not known all these other things about him, how might he have seemed? And could my impression cause me to overlook some evidence?

    Many of us here believe he didn't tell the truth about what happened on the morning of the 16th, that he didn't *really* remember what Caylee was wearing or what anyone did. Perhaps the jury sensed that, too, and saw that as reason to think he must be hiding something about that day.

    I think a lot of people did believe Krystal Holloway over GA. If the jury believed that she was telling the truth about the "accident that snowballed" (which JB kept harping on during closing arguments), that could give them an idea what he might be hiding.

    He was very defensive and somewhat combative on the stand, which I think is understandable, but the jury could have seen as more evidence that he was guilty of something. The whole thing about "which gas can are you referring to, sir" was a kind of behavior I have grown used to in GA, and just see it as his way of not cooperating any more than necessary with someone he is angry at. But the jury might have seen it as strange and suspicious, especially since JB tried to emphasize the gas cans as somehow relevant to George's involvement.

    So I started to wonder--what if I am wrong and they are right? What if there was some sort of "horrific accident" (as the alternate juror described it), and he was scared to death about it, so he and Casey did hide the remains? Is there any way I could view his behavior differently so that I could believe it, against my already-formed impression of him?

    Could GA, after having engaged in this cover-up of an accident, have then carried out the other acts in an attempt to bolster his story--like the suicide note and the jailhouse phone calls and the interviews with police that all portrayed him as a man wracked with grief, fear that his daughter was involved, and horrible guilt about how he could have raised a daughter who would do something so wrong?

  2. #2
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    what I am sure of is that he feels sorry NOW.
    he even said himself something like he smelled she was lying,I am sure he suspected something,not sure what though (the truck smelled,he knew that smell very well).
    now first I thought maybe he didn't wanna upset the two ladies in the house (casey and his wife) with too many questions and suspicions....but hey,if you smell DECOMP......it's a different story,right?
    IF he was involved,maybe he was just part of a cover-up OR maybe he is just guilty of keeping his mouth/eyes shut.....dunno
    The rice is already cooked...

  3. #3
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    IMO nobody in that family respected GA enough to trust him with something that serious. I think they viewed him as the weak link.
    "..when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.."

  4. #4
    Kimberlyd125's Avatar
    Kimberlyd125 is offline Softball is for everyone. Fast pitch is for athletes.
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    IMO GA was NOT involved.

    ICA acted alone and JB planted enough doubt in the jurors heads that she got away with murder.

    JMO
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  5. #5
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    Since they had no evidence that George was involved, I think what swayed them was the appearance of ICA. She was put in that tiny chair, had a matronly hairstyle, wore oversized clothes at times. Actually I just keep going back to the fact that the jury just didn't follow instructions. They speculated and imagined. <modsnip>
    Last edited by Kimster; 07-06-2011 at 10:33 PM. Reason: name calling is not allowed on WS

  6. #6
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    I am sorry, I just cannot buy this theory. George is not my favorite character in this tragedy, but can anyone honestly believe that Casey was willing to sit in jail for three years, risk serious jail time or the DP, to protect her father (who I do not think she even liked).

  7. #7
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    George not calling police himself about the car smelling like decomp and then going off to work probably made the jury suspicious. Then, if they even bothered to look back at dates (probably not) they might have noticed that the trunk didn't seem to start smelling until after the 24th when Casey gave him the gas cans back. None of this was explained by the state very well or other reasons given. It's kind of odd that George was so convinced that dope dealers or horrible people had harmed Caylee and framed Casey. Could she have had him convinced on the 24th? It's all so crazy.

  8. #8
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    Love you....but STOP please don't go there about George. If there was any evidence to ANYONE else that could be guilty in this case, they would have been in handcuffs at the door.
    As always, this is my humble opinion.

    Conquer the angry man by love.
    Conquer the ill-natured man by goodness.
    Conquer the miser with generosity.
    Conquer the liar with truth.

    The Dhammapada

  9. #9
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    No. I absolutely do not believe GA was involved. Even IF I could believe he wanted to cover up an accidental drowning (not) I do not believe he would or could toss Caylee into the woods. If somehow ICA talked him into a cover up Caylee would have been lovingly buried somewhere and never would have been found.

  10. #10
    In his police interview, George said that he fell for one of those email scams like there's $2.2 million waiting in an account in the UK, and then he says he lied to Cindy about it the whole time while he maxed out their MasterCard, got them tens of thousands into debt, etc. At the point of that police interview, CA still didn't know what had really happened & thought GA had gambling debts.


  11. #11
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    Pppuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhllllllllllllleeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaa aaaaasssssssssssssssseeeeeeeeee.
    My Twitter handle is @Lovemypupper . I had to change it due to rabid Kate Gosselin fans. Seriously. I'm not kidding.

  12. #12
    Etilema's Avatar
    Etilema is offline Being kind to the cruel results in being cruel to the kind.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nenato5 View Post
    I am sorry, I just cannot buy this theory. George is not my favorite character in this tragedy, but can anyone honestly believe that Casey was willing to sit in jail for three years, risk serious jail time or the DP, to protect her father (who I do not think she even liked).
    Excellent point. Because even if SOMEHOW the scenario I described above were true, that they covered up the accident together and he played dumb after that, why wouldn't Casey have said *anything* about this at some point before opening argument on the day of the trial?

    Well, I suppose it could be that she was just waiting for her day in court. Because how would it get her out of jail any faster to mention it beforehand?

    Nah, the story itself doesn't make sense. "OK, Casey, we'll just hide the body like nothing happened and you go off and do whatever you want, and just make up excuses for why Caylee can't come home. That'll work!" It's not even any kind of plan at all!

  13. #13
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    One scenario that I thought of requires a lot of "what if" qualifiers:
    If George really were molesting Casey, many child molesters are not interested in adult women. Maybe George moved on to molest Caylee.
    If George had been molesting Caylee and she died during an act of molestation or died as a result of an unrelated accident, George would, as a former police officer, know that her body would show evidence of the molestation.
    If that is true, George would know how to deal with the body of Caylee so that it would decompose rapidly and evidence could not be found.
    If George wanted to keep Casey from coming forward too soon, George could have known that blaming her for Caylee's death would drive Casey into a psychological state in which she would deny reality.
    If George also wanted to implicate Casey, he could have put Caylee's body into Casey's car trunk.

    This creates the situation: George HAD molested Casey and she was psychologically screwed up because of it. He molested Caylee, with or without Casey's knowledge. Something happened that resulted in the death of Caylee. George blamed Casey - classic "blame and shame the victim" and forced her to participate in the coverup. George puts Caylee's body in the trunk of Casey's car at some point, maybe wrapped it the same way he had wrapped dead pets over the years.

    Maybe George intended to relocate the body sooner, but Casey goes into a frenzy of partying and does not return home for days when George is there. She did go back to the house on the two days after the death of Caylee, but that is too soon for the body to have been removed from the trunk and the death smell to be left in it. Or maybe one of those days is when the body was actually put IN the trunk? Whatever happened, the decomposition of the body is sped up by being left in the trunk in the Florida, but it leaves the odor as evidence.

    George and Casey move the body into the woods. George washes his hands of the whole thing. Casey then is left to make excuses to Cindy about where Caylee is. She'd already created Zanny the Nanny and continues to use that story as long as possible. When Cindy is fed up with that story, Casey dredges up the name of an old classmate (can't remember his name right now) and makes up the Daytona Beach/Jacksonville tale.

    George does not count on Casey abandoning the car and allowing it to be towed, or Casey could no longer stand driving the car with the stench. Casey or George or both leave the car at the Amscot parking lot, but leave fresh bags of garbage so there is some apparent source for the smell. The car is left by the dumpster so anyone walking by would blame the odor on the dumpster.

    When the tow yard notice arrives, he has little choice but to go with Cindy to retrieve the car. With the tow yard operator there who recognized the decomp odor, George cannot deny it, though he probably tried to convince the guy that the garbage bags were to blame. George takes the car home and allows Cindy to clean it up, but cannot keep Cindy from tracking down Casey - Cindy with her experience knew what that smell was and was increasingly agitated. And we know what happened from that point.

    This explains why an experienced former police officer would not report the smell of decomposition in the car; why he allowed Cindy to clean the car, removing evidence; why the body was removed; why Casey was so completely off kilter; why the whole family has been covering up everything. It could also factor into why Cindy and George were separated before Caylee's disappearance - Cindy could have been trying to protect her granddaughter from the things that she had not been able to protect her daughter from.

    It still does not excuse Casey but it does give an explanation for some of the things that are not consistent with it just being Casey involved. It explains George's defensiveness and why he may not have told the entire truth to LE.

    I thought of this plot before the verdict but discounted. Now I am wondering more and more if this may be what happened?

  14. #14
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    I thought the same thing on my way to work this morning. I then realized if any family member were involved wouldn't they really send KC on a trip somewhere and let everyone know she was out of town to bond with Caylee? KC would have just been out of town for a while and then they would put something together.
    Be still before the LORD and wait patiently for him; do not fret when men succeed in their ways, when they carry out their wicked schemes.

    Psalm 37:3

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Etilema View Post
    I've been thinking and thinking about why the jury might possibly have believed JB's spin that George is the bad guy in all of this. I know that they didn't have access to tons of info that we have been listening to and watching since the beginning--the recorded police interviews, the depositions, the media interviews--in which we formed our opinions of George. I see him as a poor liar (meaning that when he lies it is almost always obvious), not an instigator (goes along with what Cindy says, as Lee implied that he does, as well), insecure about his own worth and concerned about how he comes across to others, and very emotional, with a strong attachment to his family, although not intimately involved with his family members. Because of this impression, this image I have in my mind of who George is, JB's theory seemed patently absurd to me.

    But if I had been a juror, and not known all these other things about him, how might he have seemed? And could my impression cause me to overlook some evidence?

    Many of us here believe he didn't tell the truth about what happened on the morning of the 16th, that he didn't *really* remember what Caylee was wearing or what anyone did. Perhaps the jury sensed that, too, and saw that as reason to think he must be hiding something about that day.

    I think a lot of people did believe Krystal Holloway over GA. If the jury believed that she was telling the truth about the "accident that snowballed" (which JB kept harping on during closing arguments), that could give them an idea what he might be hiding.

    He was very defensive and somewhat combative on the stand, which I think is understandable, but the jury could have seen as more evidence that he was guilty of something. The whole thing about "which gas can are you referring to, sir" was a kind of behavior I have grown used to in GA, and just see it as his way of not cooperating any more than necessary with someone he is angry at. But the jury might have seen it as strange and suspicious, especially since JB tried to emphasize the gas cans as somehow relevant to George's involvement.

    So I started to wonder--what if I am wrong and they are right? What if there was some sort of "horrific accident" (as the alternate juror described it), and he was scared to death about it, so he and Casey did hide the remains? Is there any way I could view his behavior differently so that I could believe it, against my already-formed impression of him?

    Could GA, after having engaged in this cover-up of an accident, have then carried out the other acts in an attempt to bolster his story--like the suicide note and the jailhouse phone calls and the interviews with police that all portrayed him as a man wracked with grief, fear that his daughter was involved, and horrible guilt about how he could have raised a daughter who would do something so wrong?
    This has occurred to me as well. Some things point towards it, others not so much. But in a very real sense, it is George's fault if the jury found him suspicious. He did not act quiet or dignified enough on the stand, in a way, he acted like Casey.

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