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  1. #1
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    Miscarriage vs. Abortion

    Ever since the verdict in the Casey Anthony trial came down, I've been in such shock that until now, I couldn't put it into words. Now I feel that need upon me.

    There are many, MANY things to talk about in that case re: this one, but for now the first and most important is the difference between how they fell apart.

    In medical terms, a miscarriage refers to when a fetus dies inside the mother's womb for whatever reason. The mother and even those around her may try to do everything right, but something causes it not to be.

    An abortion is when the decision is consciously made to destroy the fetus inside the womb so the baby can never be born.

    That's the distinction here as well. With Casey Anthony, the prosecution did everything they could. They presented a solid circumstantial case that, in the era before shows like CSI and the general overreliance on technology that I often warn about, would have sent her to prison. But she still got away with it. People will tell you the different reasons, but she walked because of the poor quality of jury intelligence that we see so much of today.

    But it's different in the JB case. That case was destroyed before it was ever made by politics and cowardice. Everyone forgot about a little girl and was more concerned with their egos, their careers, their public images, and their personal and political agendas.

    And now the difference is undeniable!
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.

  2. #2
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    As usual Dave, you are right. There was one thing said during this trial that really bothered me. It was when Jeff Ashton said: Why would anyone want to make an accident look like a murder? I knew exactly why someone would. This was the first time I really began to worry about the verdict!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeskidbeck View Post
    As usual Dave, you are right. There was one thing said during this trial that really bothered me. It was when Jeff Ashton said: Why would anyone want to make an accident look like a murder? I knew exactly why someone would. This was the first time I really began to worry about the verdict!
    Me, too, Beck! When he said that, I was practically yelling at the TV!
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDave View Post
    Ever since the verdict in the Casey Anthony trial came down, I've been in such shock that until now, I couldn't put it into words. Now I feel that need upon me.

    There are many, MANY things to talk about in that case re: this one, but for now the first and most important is the difference between how they fell apart.

    In medical terms, a miscarriage refers to when a fetus dies inside the mother's womb for whatever reason. The mother and even those around her may try to do everything right, but something causes it not to be.

    An abortion is when the decision is consciously made to destroy the fetus inside the womb so the baby can never be born.

    That's the distinction here as well. With Casey Anthony, the prosecution did everything they could. They presented a solid circumstantial case that, in the era before shows like CSI and the general overreliance on technology that I often warn about, would have sent her to prison. But she still got away with it. People will tell you the different reasons, but she walked because of the poor quality of jury intelligence that we see so much of today.

    But it's different in the JB case. That case was destroyed before it was ever made by politics and cowardice. Everyone forgot about a little girl and was more concerned with their egos, their careers, their public images, and their personal and political agendas.

    And now the difference is undeniable!


    And let me even say that I agree with you wholeheartedly on everything you say about Casey. But I don't believe either case was an accident made look like a murder. They were both murders. I am commenting not to argue but to give you Kudos about the Anthony debacle.
    The discovery of additional matching DNA in the JonBenet Ramsey murder case is important information that raises more questions in the search for JonBenet's killer. The BPD concurs with the Boulder District Attorney's Office that this is a significant finding. The PD has continued to look diligently for the source of the foreign DNA, and to date, we have compared DNA samples taken from more than 200 people. Finding the source of the DNA is key to helping us determine who killed JonBenet

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDave View Post

    In medical terms, a miscarriage refers to when a fetus dies inside the mother's womb for whatever reason. The mother and even those around her may try to do everything right, but something causes it not to be.

    An abortion is when the decision is consciously made to destroy the fetus inside the womb so the baby can never be born.

    And now the difference is undeniable!
    Is that how you personally see the definitions? Because abortion and miscarriage before the 20th week of pregnancy are interchangeable in usage. Medical professionals can use either term. Consciously having an abortion has no affect on whether you term it an abortion or a miscarriage. I have heard women refer to spontaneous or natural abortions as simply an abortion, and they wanted the child.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0002458/
    ďIím just a loud-mouthed middle-aged colored lady with a fused spine and three feet of intestines missing and a lot of people think Iím crazy. Maybe you do too, but I never stop to wonder why Iím not like other people. The mystery to me is why more people arenít like me.Ē Florynce Kennedy

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDave View Post
    Me, too, Beck! When he said that, I was practically yelling at the TV!
    I also thought of JBR's case when he made that statement. However, Jose Baez claimed that Caylee drowned in the pool, which is a lot different than bashing your kid in the head with a flashlight/other object. Patsy had a much bigger motive to cover up the accident than Casey did.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by MargotKidder View Post
    Is that how you personally see the definitions? Because abortion and miscarriage before the 20th week of pregnancy are interchangeable in usage. Medical professionals can use either term. Consciously having an abortion has no affect on whether you term it an abortion or a miscarriage. I have heard women refer to spontaneous or natural abortions as simply an abortion, and they wanted the child.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0002458/
    I wasn't speaking literally, MargotKidder.
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy23 View Post
    And let me even say that I agree with you wholeheartedly on everything you say about Casey. But I don't believe either case was an accident made look like a murder. They were both murders. I am commenting not to argue but to give you Kudos about the Anthony debacle.
    Thanks, I guess. Far be it from me to say I told you so, pilgrim.
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by eileenhawkeye View Post
    I also thought of JBR's case when he made that statement. However, Jose Baez claimed that Caylee drowned in the pool, which is a lot different than bashing your kid in the head with a flashlight/other object. Patsy had a much bigger motive to cover up the accident than Casey did.
    True enough, but the spirit is the same.
    I'm as mad as HELL and I'm NOT gonna take it anymore!.

  10. #10
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    Why would someone want to make an accident look like murder? I don't get it. Thank you for explaining!

    ETA: unless it is to frame someone?


  11. #11
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    ICA, was judged by a jurory of her peers we should all be afraid for the future if this is the type of people we are raising and becoming ourselves. Spoiled, over indulged, narcissistic people. So the next time you find it hard to tell your child no or hold them accountable for the wrongs that they have done, you just may be raising a Casey.

    One more thing, next time you receive a jury summons do the right thing and serve..... Its like voting, if you dont vote, than dont complain about what you get for the next four years. Both are your duties as citizens of this country.
    There are things that we don't want to happen but have to accept, things we don't want to know but have to learn, and people we can't live without but have to let go.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperDave View Post

    That's the distinction here as well. With Casey Anthony, the prosecution did everything they could. They presented a solid circumstantial case that, in the era before shows like CSI and the general overreliance on technology that I often warn about, would have sent her to prison. But she still got away with it. People will tell you the different reasons, but she walked because of the poor quality of jury intelligence that we see so much of today.
    I don't know that I agree with you about the jury's "low quality of intelligence".

    First, if I take your statement very literally, then I'd ask to see their IQ scores. We can't really say they're dummies until we've seen their scores.

    Second, as I understood one juror's comment, they questioned the COD, and that would be crucial to deciding whether or not Casey Anthony killed, or just tried to hide a dead body.

    IMO, Casey probably did it. But I can see why there was doubt. To me, this is the link between the two cases. Doubt.

    Working on probabilities, most of us lean heavily to RDI. But there is reasonable doubt in the JBR case - 3 spots of DNA, no history of abuse, no discernible motive.

    When I post about the JBR case, I'm working with what I consider to be probable. But that is not the court room standard. Beyond a reasonable doubt is the standard. I don't think the Jury's doubt was unreasonable.
    I'm just playing detective here. I have no idea who killed JonBenet. It's just an opinion.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agatha_C View Post

    One more thing, next time you receive a jury summons do the right thing and serve..... Its like voting, if you dont vote, than dont complain about what you get for the next four years. Both are your duties as citizens of this country.

    I sometimes wonder why we make the duty so onerous. I understand the reasoning for sequestration, but being sequestered for over a month is like being in prison - when your only crime is being selected for jury duty.

    I think people should be able to take a few days of being sequestered and buck and and call it their duty. IMO a month of more of being sequestered is abuse.

    Let's also talk of the pay for doing one's duty. Me, I'm lucky, my employer pays my regular salary while I'm on jury duty. All I have to do is give my employer my jury duty check. More than a fair trade, I'd say.

    Not everyone is so lucky. Many employers do not pay people when they serve on jury duty. Jury pay is a joke. Pay for a day is less than most people make in an hour. This too, amounts to abuse if serving for an extended time.

    I wonder if this jury abuse played a part in the jury's decision. Maybe not consciously. If I'd been on that jury, I'd have been thinking - Hey, you lock me up and keep me isolated from the outside world for several weeks and you not only don't have COD, you knew going in that you didn't have COD.
    I'm just playing detective here. I have no idea who killed JonBenet. It's just an opinion.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrishope View Post
    I sometimes wonder why we make the duty so onerous. I understand the reasoning for sequestration, but being sequestered for over a month is like being in prison - when your only crime is being selected for jury duty.

    I think people should be able to take a few days of being sequestered and buck and and call it their duty. IMO a month of more of being sequestered is abuse.

    Let's also talk of the pay for doing one's duty. Me, I'm lucky, my employer pays my regular salary while I'm on jury duty. All I have to do is give my employer my jury duty check. More than a fair trade, I'd say.

    Not everyone is so lucky. Many employers do not pay people when they serve on jury duty. Jury pay is a joke. Pay for a day is less than most people make in an hour. This too, amounts to abuse if serving for an extended time.

    I wonder if this jury abuse played a part in the jury's decision. Maybe not consciously. If I'd been on that jury, I'd have been thinking - Hey, you lock me up and keep me isolated from the outside world for several weeks and you not only don't have COD, you knew going in that you didn't have COD.


    I understand where you are coming from and I respect your point of view. We have military that are paid peanuts and asked to give far more. So I feel its little to ask. As for the pay, we as citizens need to make the move for change in our system, a system we fail as much as it fails us.
    There are things that we don't want to happen but have to accept, things we don't want to know but have to learn, and people we can't live without but have to let go.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agatha_C View Post
    I understand where you are coming from and I respect your point of view. We have military that are paid peanuts and asked to give far more. So I feel its little to ask. As for the pay, we as citizens need to make the move for change in our system, a system we fail as much as it fails us.
    The military is all volunteer. Has been since Vietnam. They know what they'll be asked to do, and they know the pay rates going in. (I served 14 years myself)

    Military pay might be peanuts relative to the sacrifice we ask, but jury pay is also peanuts. We don't ask jurors to die for their country, but in a case like this we ask them to be sequestered for a month or more, loosing pay, deprived of family and friends.

    The last time I served I only had to go in for half a day. I was paid (a few weeks later) the magnificent sum of $8 and change. Had I served a whole day, I still would not have received the equivalent of one hour of pay from my job. I was not even paid federal minimum wage.

    I think we can ask citizens to bear this burden for a few days. Several weeks of it is abuse.
    I'm just playing detective here. I have no idea who killed JonBenet. It's just an opinion.

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