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  1. #1
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    What do Burke's interviews tell us?

    On January 8, John and Patsy took Burke to the Child Advocacy Center in Niwot, Colorado, through arrangements made by the Boulder Police department, to be interviewed by Dr. Suzanne Bernard, a specialist in child psychology. As is customary in interrogations of children, Dr. Bernhard played a game with Burke throughout the interview and the entire interview was videotaped.

    When left alone with the psychologist, Burke appeared to be at ease and even told the doctor that be felt safe, even though he did say that he had not wanted to come that day! Dr. Bernhard thought it was unusual for this child to feel safe. "People in this entire town didn't feel safe with the concept that there was someone running around that could be snatching children, and this was his own sister and happened in his own home. Generally speaking, a child who goes through this kind of trauma, where a sibling or a family member has been killed, they don’t feel safe.

    Burke described his father as quiet and that he was "always at work", and that his mother "worked as a mom'. The thing he liked most about his mom was that she gave him lots of hugs and kisses, and the thing he liked most about his dad were "planes". Throughout the interview he showed little warmth towards his family, but at the same time was very protective of them. According to Burke, the worst thing they did was not buy him, expensive toys. Dr. Bernhard explained that most children in interviews will discuss things about the family that angers them even if they love them, but Burke appeared to have difficulty in opening up about his family, similar to children who can't say things, because they feel that there are some things they shouldn't say.

    Social Services had previously provided Dr. Bernhard with some history on Burke which indicated an ongoing bedwetting problem, but Burke denied this saying that it happened a long time ago. Children are usually honest about this in interviews, and Dr. Bernhard wondered why Burke was not.

    Many of Burke's other responses also created areas of concern for the doctor. Burke displayed an enormous amount of lack of emotion, almost to the point of indifference, which Dr. Bernard explained may be attributed to shock, but could also have been a lack of attachment to his family. Since his mother had appeared very emotional when she brought Burke for the interview, Dr. Bernard thought that perhaps Burke could not deal with the family’s emotions and had therefore just withdrawn. Even in response to questions which should have elicited strong emotions, he remained non-expressive. When asked “How have things been since your only sister died?”, Burke responded, “It’s been okay.” And when asked if he missed her, he said, “Yep.” Burke continuously told Dr. Bernhard that he tried to forget about things and just play his Nintendo.

    'When asked to draw a picture of his family, he drew a father figure who was distanced from Burke, a mother figure which was the smallest figure in the picture, and JonBenet was not in the picture at all. Dr. Bernhard interpreted the drawing to suggest that Burke felt his father was not emotionally available to him and that his mother was insignificant and did not have a great deal of power. Dr. Bernhard thought it extremely abnormal that JonBenet was not in the family picture at all, since her heath had occurred only 13 days prior. Most children continue to include deceased siblings in family drawings years after the death because it is too devastating for them to think about the loss. Burke also told Dr. Bernhard that he was “getting on with his life.”, another very abnormal reaction for a child who had so recently lost his sibling.

    When specifically discussing the crime, he related that he did not hear any noises that night and that he was asleep, but he admitted that he usually hears when someone opens the refrigerator door downstairs. Dr. Bernhard asked what he thought happened to his sister. Burke, showing the first signs of irritation during the interview, responded, "I know what happened, she was killed.” Burke's explanation to the doctor was “someone took her quietly and took her down in the basement took a knife out or hit her on the head." He said that the only thing he asked his dad was "where did you find her body", a highly unusual query from a child considering the possible questions a child might ask about the death of a sibling.

    Dr. Bernhard felt there needed to be more follow-up with Burke in the discussion of sexual contact. The only show of emotion by Burke, other than the irritation with the questions about the actual crime, was when Dr. Bernhard began to ask about uncomfortable touching. Burke picked up a board game and put it on his head an action indicating anxiety or discomfort with these types of questions and that there was more that he was not telling her. Dr. Bernhard asked Burke if he had any secrets, and he said, “probably, if I did, I wouldn't tell you, because then it wouldn’t be a secret.
    What's everyone's opinions on this interview? Does anything stand out?
    I'll post what I find interesting in my next post so this one doesn't get too long

  2. #2
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    Ice water runs in his veins?
    "The Greek word moira (μοῖρα) literally means a part or portion, and by extension one's portion in life or destiny.
    They controlled the metaphorical thread of life of every mortal from birth to death."

    Wikipedia

  3. #3
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    Throughout the interview, I got the impression that Burke was terrified to let any information about his sister's death out. His answers are very short; he seemed to be very cautious to not say anything wrong.

    One answer that stands out to me is when Burke is asked, "What is the one thing you like best about your mom?" He replies, "She gives me hugs and kisses." Does anyone else find this a strange answer for an (almost) 10-year-old boy? Hugs and kisses are a huge contrast from going into a rage and killing your 6-year-old daughter.

    When specifically discussing the crime, he related that he did not hear any noises that night and that he was asleep, but he admitted that he usually hears when someone opens the refrigerator door downstairs. Dr. Bernhard asked what he thought happened to his sister. Burke, showing the first signs of irritation during the interview, responded, "I know what happened, she was killed.” Burke's explanation to the doctor was “someone took her quietly and took her down in the basement took a knife out or hit her on the head." He said that the only thing he asked his dad was "where did you find her body", a highly unusual query from a child considering the possible questions a child might ask about the death of a sibling.
    Why does Burke show no emotions until he asked, "What do you think happened to JonBenet?"

    The "took a knife out or hit her on the head" is very interesting...

    "Where did you find her body?" is a strange question. Why not ask, "Who did it?" Unless you already know.

    -----

    Burke's behavior when he is asked about molestation is also very interesting. His behavior doesn't seem like the behavior a child who doesn't have past experiences with sexual abuse would display.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by eileenhawkeye View Post
    What's everyone's opinions on this interview? Does anything stand out?
    I'll post what I find interesting in my next post so this one doesn't get too long

    My first thought is outrage.. How did this childs private meeting with a Doctor, become public knowledge. I dont care how involved I am in this case or how many questions I want answers too... His time, in that interview should have remained private/sealed...

    My next thought would is this.... Because of the above outrage, I have to wonder at its validity. Where was this first published, is what I would like know?

    Eileen, my outrage is at the leaking of this Doctors visit and not at you for posting it and using for topic. I just wanted you to know, Im not attacking you at all...

    If this is indeed a true and accurate accounting of what really transpired then I am sick to my stomach.... If this is true, BR was a child in need of serious help... It further bolsters my belief that this family had deep dark secrets and more was happening in that home then any of us will ever know....

    I pray he received the help that he needed and one day he'll do the right thing, and set the record straight.
    There are things that we don't want to happen but have to accept, things we don't want to know but have to learn, and people we can't live without but have to let go.

  5. #5
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    The interview is from the Bonita Papers:

    From a poster known as "Spade" on the www.forumsforjustice.org forum posted information regarding a person known as "Bonita." Spade wrote: "These are the unedited "notes" of Bonita Sauer, secretary/para-legal to Dan Hoffman. Bonita intended to write a book from the case documents provided to her boss. But Bonita's notes were sold to the tabs by her nephew. Larry Pozner is a partner in the same law firm. I hope he reads his secretary's notes about this case before he runs his mouth about the Ramsey's. (Again) This is a long file, so I suggest copying to your own computer and printing it out. I have checked the important case info and find it accurate, however there is some BS. Please post your questions." On another postings, Spade wrote, "Bonita is the 1st name of the legal secretary who wrote up the Boulder Police reports, mailed them to her nephew in Oregon who in turn double-dealt them to two tabs for $70,000. Bonita had access to all the BPD reports. Keep in mind that Bonita wrote-up her info in 1999"
    The information about Burke's interview from the Bonita Papers is also paraphrased in PMPT.

    You can read the complete Bonita Papers here: http://www.acandyrose.com/1999-BonitaPapers.htm

  6. #6
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    This has been discussed in prior threads. I never, until Agatha said it, thought about patient client confidentiality. My understanding is this woman has exclusive information due to the position she held.

    If this is accurate, there are several things that stand out.

    First and foremost the line about secrets. What secret is he unwilling to talk about? I have not heard too many lines like this from a 10 year old boy. Mostly, I think they would either tell a secret or be savvy enough not to say anything to even elude to the idea of a secret.

    Second, he obviously knows enough of what happened to NOT be fearful, not be concerned for his own safety and not be curious about what happened to JonBenet or by whom. All highly unusual since Patsy said she never spoke to Burke about what happened.

    Thirdly, the reaction to questions regarding 'touching' is also very telling, as any reaction is abnormal in my mind.

    I also wonder why he didn't put JonBenet in the family picture.
    ___________________

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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by eileenhawkeye View Post
    The interview is from the Bonita Papers:



    The information about Burke's interview from the Bonita Papers is also paraphrased in PMPT.

    You can read the complete Bonita Papers here: http://www.acandyrose.com/1999-BonitaPapers.htm

    Thanks Eileen? Great topic by the way. I just feel so sorry for the R children and what life must truly have been like, if this report was accurate and if RDI is right (We are of course, but one must agree that until its stated as fact, theories remain just that....

    Look at ICA, we know she is guilty, and yet she isnt....
    There are things that we don't want to happen but have to accept, things we don't want to know but have to learn, and people we can't live without but have to let go.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by SunnieRN View Post
    This has been discussed in prior threads. I never, until Agatha said it, thought about patient client confidentiality. My understanding is this woman has exclusive information due to the position she held.

    If this is accurate, there are several things that stand out.

    First and foremost the line about secrets. What secret is he unwilling to talk about? I have not heard too many lines like this from a 10 year old boy. Mostly, I think they would either tell a secret or be savvy enough not to say anything to even elude to the idea of a secret.

    Second, he obviously knows enough of what happened to NOT be fearful, not be concerned for his own safety and not be curious about what happened to JonBenet or by whom. All highly unusual since Patsy said she never spoke to Burke about what happened.

    Thirdly, the reaction to questions regarding 'touching' is also very telling, as any reaction is abnormal in my mind.

    I also wonder why he didn't put JonBenet in the family picture.


    You are a wise owl Sunnie Girl....
    There are things that we don't want to happen but have to accept, things we don't want to know but have to learn, and people we can't live without but have to let go.

  9. #9
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    The thing he liked most about his mom was that she gave him lots of hugs and kisses …

    When asked to draw a picture of his family … JonBenet was not in the picture at all.
    These two things stick out for me. Though I do not have children, it seems to me that a 10 year old boy would not appreciate hugs and kisses from anyone, especially his mother. And I find it chilling that he did not include his sister in the drawing of his family.

    I didn't follow this case as closely as I followed Casey Anthony, but all along I suspected that Burke might have something to do with the murder. The quotes seem to indicate that he wanted more attention from his parents. He saw his father as working all the time and his mother as being 'small', which may indicate she was only a small part of Burke's life.

    I know that Burke was supposedly ruled out as a suspect, but I'm still not convinced. I'll have to do more research, but from what I understand he had the opportunity and now it's looking like he might have had a motive as well.

  10. #10
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    on the link provided, called the "Bonita Papers" under "FOLLOW UP" heading:
    http://www.acandyrose.com/1999-BonitaPapers.htm


    There is a line which says, that Patsy admitted writing the Practice (Ransom) Note
    for an "innocent purpose"

    I don't get it, WHY, what kind of innocent purpose could this possibly be? (logic tells me this is b.s. makes no sense, doesn't pass the smell test)
    "The Greek word moira (μοῖρα) literally means a part or portion, and by extension one's portion in life or destiny.
    They controlled the metaphorical thread of life of every mortal from birth to death."

    Wikipedia


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agatha_C View Post
    You are a wise owl Sunnie Girl....
    Iam wise enough to learn from my friends, who are much wiser than I!!

    You always bring the important questions to the forefront Agatha.

    Eileen, when I look at the family dynamics concerning the R's, Burke is an unknown. I have no idea if his behaviors in this session are normal for him, which would be scary, or if he was 'rehearsed and scripted' to give the answers that Patsy thought were 'right'. Either way, he is not like most typical children in his responses, if this is accurate. Glad you started the thread so this can be revisited.
    ___________________

    "This Time We Get It Right!"
    If you can read this, thank a teacher, if it's in English, thank a soldier!
    If I forget to mention it. Everything I post is my opinion, right or wrong, good or bad.
    If you have questions about Rebecca Zahaus death, please watch this:http://websleuths.com/forums/showpos...00&postcount=1

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cracka*Jaxx View Post
    These two things stick out for me. Though I do not have children, it seems to me that a 10 year old boy would not appreciate hugs and kisses from anyone, especially his mother. And I find it chilling that he did not include his sister in the drawing of his family.

    I didn't follow this case as closely as I followed Casey Anthony, but all along I suspected that Burke might have something to do with the murder. The quotes seem to indicate that he wanted more attention from his parents. He saw his father as working all the time and his mother as being 'small', which may indicate she was only a small part of Burke's life.

    I know that Burke was supposedly ruled out as a suspect, but I'm still not convinced. I'll have to do more research, but from what I understand he had the opportunity and now it's looking like he might have had a motive as well.
    Nice to meet you!! I have often thought that Burke either is involved in the case, or knows exactly what happened. Mostly due to the type of chronic abuse that JonBenet went through and the fact that he hit JonBenet with a golf club one time. I hope you keep posting!
    ___________________

    "This Time We Get It Right!"
    If you can read this, thank a teacher, if it's in English, thank a soldier!
    If I forget to mention it. Everything I post is my opinion, right or wrong, good or bad.
    If you have questions about Rebecca Zahaus death, please watch this:http://websleuths.com/forums/showpos...00&postcount=1

  13. #13
    I lurk around the JBR site quite often but seldom comment, though I have great interest in this case. We moved to Co. right after JBR's death and I have always thought a RDI with particular focus on Burke. Interesting reading and insights here.

  14. #14
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    Linda Wilcox, former housekeeper for the Ramseys, gave an interview where she revealed some interesting things about the family dynamic:

    Yeah, she (Daphne White) had been to the house a few times and she was a cool little kid. But, she never slept over which I thought was odd. Because usually little girls take turns. JonBenet was the only happy person in that house. She was a ray of sunshine. She was totally adorable. She really was a pretty little thing.
    It's a wine cellar, that's what it was built as. It has no windows, I mean, it was a wine cellar. The last time I was in that room, there was nothing in it, it was bare. It wasn't used for storage, it wasn't used for anything. It was very damp, anything you put in there got kinda moldy, nothing was in that room. It wasn't necessarily hidden but it wasn't in plain view. And the room leading to it was the boiler room. It was kind of open but it was very dark. No one was ever down there much except maybe Burke. Burke was there occasionally. He had his train set down there. He was the only one who played down there. Patsy hardly ever went down there. She'd go down to get whatever she needed, she didn't like to go down there. It freaked JonBenet out. It was cold, it was damp, it was cluttered, it was dark. Pretty much the household help were the only ones who went down there. In fact, I'm the one who discovered the safe. Patsy didn't know it was there.
    He (John) had this collage frame with pictures of Beth in them. From when she was a little kid, when she was a cheerleader, like that, which in and of itself is not odd at all especially with someone who has died. Except that he kept it in his bathroom.
    She'd (Suzanne) gone and gotten the kids and she said, hey, I'm going to take you guys to McDonalds. JonBenet looked at her stone cold and said, "Eating McDonalds makes you fat."
    Like, JonBenet, for example. She got no affection at all when she was little except maybe from their nanny. Until she started to perform or produce, she was basically ignored. At one point, John was complaining because he had to get her dressed one morning because Suzanne had been out of town. He couldn't find any clothes that matched. The reason was, she was wearing cast-offs from Burke because she didn't have any clothes of her own.
    And they were talking about how Burke had mentioned, he had asked his mom that day, because she had worn it to Easter services and he had asked his mom, "Mom, am I fat?" And she's like, "No, why?" and he goes, "well, what's wrong with me, everybody's oohing and aahing over her?"
    Um, the thing that struck me weird about the house, it seemed really odd to me that she seemed like the only person who had any kind of joy. You know, to smile or show any exuberance was JonBenet.
    And then, Burke, his friends were his world. He kind of lived in his own world. Basically he had this whole group of friends and they had sleepovers. JonBenet never had sleepovers. She slept at her friend's houses occasionally but it was never reciprocated. I thought that was kind of odd.
    Then, when ]onBenet started school, she became Patsy's second project. The children really were like projects to her. I'm afraid that after JonBenet became Patsy's focus, she also became her obsession.
    ETA: Linda stopped working for the Ramseys on September 4, 1995. JonBenet was still a brunette, and had only been in one pageant up to that point.

  15. #15
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    The phrase "oohing and aahing over her" is not something I'd expect a boy that age to say. That is adult phraseology.
    THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

    This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

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