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  1. #1
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    Question Canada - Autistic Child Found: Was this Disappearance Staged

    This case has gone viral in Canada and hits very close to home for me in a number of ways. The child is now in the care of MCFD in a medical foster home. The father has become an absolute media hound. Not an unusual response from a parent who believes their child has been legally abducted. I have provided a link to one of the fathers most recent media appearances. I do not want to say much as I do not want to prejudice any responses. However, if after viewing this clip there are board members who have a particular interest or skill in written and or verbal statement analysis, please pm me. There are a few areas of this case which are greatly troubling me and I would value your feedback.

    Last edited by KateB; 06-03-2015 at 12:30 AM. Reason: repair url tag.

  2. #2
    OneLostGrl's Avatar
    OneLostGrl is offline I'm going against the grain- I'm going sane
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    I'm hoping he means Clozapine. Because it's either that or Chlorpromazine which is Thorazine and that thought is very scary. She must really be missing her daddy and putting up a fuss! She went from being on no drugs at all to being on Risperdal and Seroquel which are both heavy duty anti-psychotics and then they add Thorazine to that?! How's that child even walking?!

    Do you think this guy is lying.. that she was never really missing?

  3. #3
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    Whoa.....

    I haved worked with disabled individuals for 30 years. I really want to listen to all the father's interviews but I need to get some sleep.

    But from this interview...

    He seems sincere and caring. If there were previous issues or issues with her walking away on Sunday, why did they wait until Thursday to remove her? But they left 2 other children in the home? Did they complete a full investigation (interviewing neighbors, the other children, school officials, family friends)?

    I would think and hope that the officials presented the family with a written report as to why she was being removed. Or said something like, "at this time we are investigating you for child abuse/neglect and while we are investigating we must remove your daughter from your care.........." but why leave her in the home from Sunday thru Thursday........

    For a child to go from no medications to 3 heavy duty psychotropics, its very,, very sad. It seems she is acting out because she misses her family and her routine...

    Right now, all I can do is shake my head........there has to be more......
    "Something's not right with that girl" - Jose Baez during Opening Statement

    My post may only be used on Websleuths. Thanks.

    All post are my opinion and speculation only and are not meant as anything else.......so unless I'm quoting MSM, take it for what it's worth!!!

  4. #4
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    Absolutely

    I agree. There has to be more. I believe that this apprehension was planned prior to this child wandering off. The fact that she wandered off may have been coincidental and further contributed to the reasons for removal. If my nonverbal child was continually exhibiting clear signs of distress while at school my child would be at home if the system could not safely meet her needs.

    What I find troubling is how the father repeatedly mentions that the negative behaviors occurred solely within the school environment. However, in a transcript of an interview between the family and MCFD, the father speaks about what he puts up with at home, how his daughter smears excrement on the walls and ceiling.

    MCFD also indicated that another reason for removal was that the child needed dental work but the father did not take necessary action. The father argues that the $1400 cap/2 years per child was not sufficient as the child would require general anesthetic. The work was medically required as the child was at risk of infection, therefore, a physicians letter would have been all that was required to have the procedures performed under anesthetic at no cost to him. There are numerous non-profits that would have contributed to any uncovered costs.

    This father is a single parent who would have been extremely isolated socially as a result of the demands raising three children, two of whom have severe autism. Suddenly, he is thrust into the spotlight, and spending the majority of his waking hours on Facebook, is the center of much female attention, receiving donations of all sorts, and so forth. Were it me in his shoes, I would be camped out in front of MCFD office, begging them to tell me what I need to do to get my child back, not biting the hands of those who have her.

    There is quite a bit of social media attention being given to this. If you have some time, check out the blogs, alternate news sources, and Facebook. In some of the written statements provided by the father there are indications of sensitivity, not so much deception, but something is not sitting right with me.

  5. #5
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    I have to watch and process this video and read the details more carefully. I happen to believe that there's far more to this story than has been released. I learned long long ago that it NEVER pays off to bump heads with CPS in the media. This man needs to lean heavily on his attorney, go to every planned visit with his child (to deny her that is horrible, IMO, and does not serve his cause), ask for letters of support from family, friends, neighbors, and educators. This must be done is a systematic and reasoned fashion. Going for the sensational story, I'm afraid, will only make things worse. I find it appalling that he has chosen to share her photos and name in the press.

    It should be remembered that this father has the right to reveal any details he wishes. CPS has a strict commitment to confidentiality. Even though the US and Canada have some differences in child welfare, there's still a judge overseeing the case and CPS must follow the law concerning the issue of visits and parental notification. Something just is not adding up here, IMO. I'm hopeful that there is a speedy resolution of this case.

    On a personal note, the one area where I have many questions is the quick addition of psychotropics. I've learned that children in the system are far over-medicated and the meds can be offered immediately after placement. It's a godsend for some but merely a band-aid for others who are in crisis. My guess is that this child was approaching an age where a psychotropic would be appropriate to control some of her impulsivity--removing her clothing and wandering. It's difficult, though, for a foster family new to her, to assess her adjustment to these meds.

    A very sticky situation.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by craftybatchy View Post
    I agree. There has to be more. I believe that this apprehension was planned prior to this child wandering off. The fact that she wandered off may have been coincidental and further contributed to the reasons for removal. If my nonverbal child was continually exhibiting clear signs of distress while at school my child would be at home if the system could not safely meet her needs.

    What I find troubling is how the father repeatedly mentions that the negative behaviors occurred solely within the school environment. However, in a transcript of an interview between the family and MCFD, the father speaks about what he puts up with at home, how his daughter smears excrement on the walls and ceiling.

    MCFD also indicated that another reason for removal was that the child needed dental work but the father did not take necessary action. The father argues that the $1400 cap/2 years per child was not sufficient as the child would require general anesthetic. The work was medically required as the child was at risk of infection, therefore, a physicians letter would have been all that was required to have the procedures performed under anesthetic at no cost to him. There are numerous non-profits that would have contributed to any uncovered costs.

    This father is a single parent who would have been extremely isolated socially as a result of the demands raising three children, two of whom have severe autism. Suddenly, he is thrust into the spotlight, and spending the majority of his waking hours on Facebook, is the center of much female attention, receiving donations of all sorts, and so forth. Were it me in his shoes, I would be camped out in front of MCFD office, begging them to tell me what I need to do to get my child back, not biting the hands of those who have her.

    There is quite a bit of social media attention being given to this. If you have some time, check out the blogs, alternate news sources, and Facebook. In some of the written statements provided by the father there are indications of sensitivity, not so much deception, but something is not sitting right with me.
    Wow, interesting. I'm gonna have to look this case up. Now that I know he's a liar I can't help but wonder if he's lying about her not being on meds prior to this.

  7. #7
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    Thanks All !!

    Thanks everyone. Please keep the input and observations coming.

    I am personally familiar with many of the systems of support which are available to this child and her family. Much of what this father is saying flies in the face of everything I personally know to be true about policies and procedures under legislation which is relevant to his family. The lack of discretion shown in details and documentation shared with total strangers is shocking. There are times when attention seeking behavior on behalf of our children is the best thing we can given them. In this case, it is too her detriment.

    Why did CPS take this child and leave the other two in his care is beyond me unless because of her gender she was being victimized in an all too familiar, horrendous fashion. If school was such a traumatizing, dangerous situation for this child, the father could have kept her home. Regardless of how tired and overwhelmed I have ever been, I have never, would never send my son to school if his safety plan was not being implemented in his best interests. Not just for his own safety but that of those who work with him as well as his fellow students.

    He may feel that getting his daughters name and picture out there is doing some sort of good. If anything, it is only going to make it next to impossible for her current caregivers to transport her to appointments or elsewhere in the community except in a clandestine fashion because she will be far too recognizable.

    Most telling to me is that he states firmly that his daughter believes she has been kidnapped and expects him to rescue her. He uses this as a reason not to visit her. Yet the non-custodial mother has been given visitation and plans on participating in it fully.

    My hinky meter is going crazy right now.

  8. #8
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    Well, all I keep thinking is that this flies in the face of Caylee's Law as well if this is indeed true! If he's being honest that his daughter was taken merely because she strayed away from the house (which happens to the best of us) and he was punished because he called the authorities to help find her, who on earth is going to want to instill Caylee's law?
    It's just MOO. I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time and it surely won't be the last!

    Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity. ~ Martin Luther King, Jr.



  9. #9
    OneLostGrl's Avatar
    OneLostGrl is offline I'm going against the grain- I'm going sane
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    I get that he's upset that they took her but how can he possibly think that not visiting her could possibly be good for her? He's the father, he needs to put his anger aside and be there for his child while she is going through this. If she's walking around with his picture can you imagine how happy she'd be if he actually showed up in person?

    I'm so glad that the mother is going to visit her daughter, at least somebody in her life can act like an adult and put their child first! Do we know why mom lost custody in the first place?

    My mom was in and out of psych hospitals and rehabs when I was a kid.. my siblings and I would be placed in foster care while she was gone. While I don't recall much of the "system", I do remember feeling abandoned and afraid I'd never see my mother again. Kids don't always feel what adults feel or what adults expect them to feel. I don't think this guy should assume his daughter feels like she was kidnapped just because HE feels like she was kidnapped.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneLostGrl View Post
    I'm hoping he means Clozapine. Because it's either that or Chlorpromazine which is Thorazine and that thought is very scary. She must really be missing her daddy and putting up a fuss! She went from being on no drugs at all to being on Risperdal and Seroquel which are both heavy duty anti-psychotics and then they add Thorazine to that?! How's that child even walking?!

    Do you think this guy is lying.. that she was never really missing?
    Just brainstorming I guess. The tree house was placed directly adjacent to a fence, I am talking a cm or two (pictures are available online). If you know your child has poor impulse control and inability to respect boundaries, why would you allow a child to play unattended on a structure which is right next too a fence. That is like saying here is a way out, have at it.

    What are the chances that this child did not jump the fence but was encouraged over it and told to go and wait in the neighbors yard, not to go anywhere with anyone or respond to anyone but her father. Maybe this fathers own version of Munchausens by proxy with a twist.


  11. #11
    OneLostGrl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by craftybatchy View Post
    Just brainstorming I guess. The tree house was placed directly adjacent to a fence, I am talking a cm or two (pictures are available online). If you know your child has poor impulse control and inability to respect boundaries, why would you allow a child to play unattended on a structure which is right next too a fence. That is like saying here is a way out, have at it.

    What are the chances that this child did not jump the fence but was encouraged over it and told to go and wait in the neighbors yard, not to go anywhere with anyone or respond to anyone but her father. Maybe this fathers own version of Munchausens by proxy with a twist.
    Like Balloon boy's dad.

    Not so far fetched. Sick dude and he's paying for it now if that's what he did. I hope the state will send dad for a psych evaluation before they give him back his daughter.
    Last edited by KateB; 06-03-2015 at 12:30 AM. Reason: repair url tag.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneLostGrl View Post
    Like Balloon boy's dad. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxtFXtiUbbw

    Not so far fetched. Sick dude and he's paying for it now if that's what he did. I hope the state will send dad for a psych evaluation before they give him back his daughter.
    Sorta. I cannot for the life of me guess why the father continues to engage the media so aggressively without consulting an attorney. Very much a deus ex machina cum martyr complex .

  13. #13
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    If this father has Munchausen by Proxy, he would be a rarity indeed. Almost always, that's a disorder attributed to mothers. I can't find it right now but I once read that there was a case of a father with MBP and it turned out that he was a single parent and gay. Quite intriguing. It's also far more common in families with adopted children. Some adoptive mothers seek out very ill children and then exacerbate the children's illnesses through medical manipulation. Does anyone know if this little girl is this man's biological child or his adopted child?

    As an aside, concerning meds and children in the system, one of our adopted children almost died when he left his mother's care and entered the system. She lied about the amount of meds he was taking. When the little guy went into foster care, the foster parents continued with the meds they were told he'd been taking. Only problem was that he'd not been on any of them. He almost died of an overdose of lithium. He literally got slammed with the dose and has permanent neurological damage from the event. My heart just breaks for the foster parents who were simply doing as they were directed. They were flat out lied to by the mother. Lies always hurt children.

  14. #14
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    Derek Hoare's home is described as having a number of safety features:

    http://ronunruhgps.blogspot.com/2011...ghter-ayn.html

    "....All windows and doors are locked and the doors require a key to exit from the inside...."

    more at link


    While that might make lots of sense to the general public, it would be illegal here in the states. In fact, it's often a huge bone of contention. Children cannot be locked unless there is a behavioral plan, a doctor's order, a judge's order, and frequent check-ins by the appropriate agency.

    For children in the US foster system, one cannot even get certified if there are locks on any doors which cannot be managed by every child. Yes, it seems ludicrous at times, but it's for safety. Specialized foster parents cannot restrain a child, stop a child from leaving the home nor even give the "impression of restriction of egress".

    For 25 years, my husband any my only involvement with the system was as adoptive parents and as post adoption advocates. Three years ago, we were approached by the county to become specialized foster parents for children with severe developmental disability. Imagine our shock to learn that we had to remove even the regular dead bolt lock from the front door. No standing in doorways, either. If a child leaves, all one can do is call the police. It's a constant conundrum. I wonder if something about Hoare's home did not meet with the local authority's requirements?

    This article also makes clear that Hoare was "permitted" custody of the children by his former wife. That still doesn't tell me if they are adopted or birth children, however.

  15. #15
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    Another recent case from Oregon and Nevada which we followed here on WS:

    OR~'Extreme Makeover' family accused of medical child abuse - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

    This is the case of the Cerda children--two little girls supposedly extremely ill. Their mother was charged with medical abuse as a number of doctors accused her of attention seeking behavior and "doctor-shopping"--clear signs of MBP. She went so far as to hoodwink the Extreme Makeover television series into a major remodeling of the family home....and then selling it. Lots of similarities here about the detrimental affects of going to the media for assistance with a child welfare issue.

    The parent sounds sincere and genuine but there's a hidden agenda.....
    Last edited by KateB; 06-03-2015 at 12:31 AM. Reason: repair url tag.

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