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  1. #1
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    Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #16

    Guys - please settle down and act like grow ups. You know the rules. Attack the post - not the poster. Follow the TOS, found here: The Rules - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

    Pay particular attention to this thread about dealing with your fellow posters: Best Practices Dealing with your fellow posters - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


    Thanks,

    Salem

    Thread 15
    Last edited by KateB; 05-31-2015 at 08:22 AM. Reason: repair url tag.

  2. #2
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    So I guess this Monday July 25 is the last court date of the appeal, before the fall verdict. Wonder what will be said.......

  3. #3
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    As an "objective" test, I showed my husband the footprints and told him he could bet me $0, $1, $5, or $20, if he could guess which one was right. He bet me $1 and guessed it was Rudy's. Then I said he might be right or he might be wrong, but now I'd show him the measurements instead of just the pictures, and he could bet again. He thought about it, and stated aloud he thought his first bet was wrong, and it was probably RS's. I said he could bet $1 and break even either way or he could double down. He declined to bet.

    He also told me to stop goofing around on the internet.

    I would also like to second that I enjoy having fred and otto to talk with. I find the debate interesting and I'm glad they have stuck around.

  4. #4
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    Aug 2009
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    Stripping away the details of the bathmat debate, what it really comes down to is that (bare) footprint analysis is in the subjective, 'soft forensics' category (the same grouping as hair and fiber analysis - note that shoe prints are closer to the objective, 'hard forensics' category, like tire track analysis). What that means is that the analysis (or interpretation as many journal articles more accurately refer to the process) of bare prints is much more of an art than a science, and is generally viewed by the wider forensics community (as well as the archeological community) as being 'unreliable' as evidence. The reason for this state of affairs is the large number of variable factors that can have a large impact on the print left behind as someone moves about - most of which cannot be determined in real world scenarios through anything but sheer guesswork.

    The good news is that there is a lot of work being done to try to come up with reliable methods of analysis. The bad news, however, is that at the moment there is no standard method, a sorry situation for something that has been used in courtrooms for decades now. Sure, cases have been decided on such weak evidence, but then, the same can be said for 'he's black, and witness x saw a generically described black man running from the scene'.
    Last edited by SkewedView; 07-23-2011 at 02:54 AM.
    The truth usually lurks beneath the surface - look deeper!





    On and on the rain will fall
    Like tears from a star like tears from a star
    On and on the rain will say
    How fragile we are how fragile we are

  5. #5
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    Jul 2011
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    AK, RS and all their loved ones must be going mad in anticipation of the final hearing this Monday.

    I can't even begin to imagine the stress and nerves.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonata View Post
    AK, RS and all their loved ones must be going mad in anticipation of the final hearing this Monday.

    I can't even begin to imagine the stress and nerves.
    Agreed. This court discussion on Monday will really be the closing arguments on both sides before the Sept./Oct. verdict, August being simply some extension of those arguments if needed, if I have understood correctly.

    This is really down to the wire now, and I am eager to see what comes out in the press on Monday.

  7. #7
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    Here is a synopsis of what should be the general court discussion on Monday. Too bad it is a dreadful, horrible as usual Google Translation:

    PERUGIA - will battle on Monday, July 25 from genetic findings in the appeal trial with Raffaele Sollecito and Amanda Knox, 25 and sentenced to 26 years in prison for the murder of Meredith Kercher . . . Prosecution and civil action, lawyers for the victim's family, it will try by all means to counter the results of the survey ordered by the Court that questioned the results of investigations carried out by forensic genetic.

    One of the cornerstones, if not the cornerstone, accusing the plant. Doubt, those expressed by the experts, that touch the "relic 36", considered the knife the weapon used to strike fatally Meredith Kercher in the throat, on which the science has isolated the genetic code of the victim and that of Knox on the blade on the handle. . .

    Stefano Conti and Carla Vecchiotti, the experts of the Assize Court of Appeal, after having excluded to repeat the analysis, according to the documents of investigation have found that these results "not credible" for the DNA of Sollecito and Kercher on the hook and the same British student on the blade of the knife seized at the home of Puglia (agreeing with the assignment rather than on the handle of the young Italian American girlfriend at the time and therefore often in the home). The experts have not ruled out further that the results are the result of contamination. In 145 pages filed on June 29 last year, experts have said that in the analysis of science "were not followed international procedures of inspection and collection protocols and sampling." "A sharp blow to the scientific evidence," he told the lawyer Luciano Ghirga, one of the defenders of Knox.
    http://www.leggo.it/articolo.php?id=132850&sez=ITALIA

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMK View Post
    Agreed. This court discussion on Monday will really be the closing arguments on both sides before the Sept./Oct. verdict, August being simply some extension of those arguments if needed, if I have understood correctly.

    This is really down to the wire now, and I am eager to see what comes out in the press on Monday.
    This is the part I truly hate. The judge has left open the possibility of examining other things such as TOD etc., thus this appeal could be much longer. They could also make a ruling either way. If they indeed find them guilty again then we would have another appeal at the supreme court level.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allusonz View Post
    This is the part I truly hate. The judge has left open the possibility of examining other things such as TOD etc., thus this appeal could be much longer. They could also make a ruling either way. If they indeed find them guilty again then we would have another appeal at the supreme court level.
    Ah, I see. So they might continue on into August and September with the TOD, etc.? That might be good for the defense, actually. But I am assuming that either way, they will want the verdict by early October?

    Yes, if the convictions stand, there will be one last appeal to the High Court. No more than that, correct? I think it would be a very inauspicious sign, though, if the convictions do stand. What is your gut feeling?

  10. #10
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    @ Nova

    Hey!! That slippery slope is only 90 degrees I simply cannot imagine you in panty hose thus please don't shave your legs


  11. #11
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    @ Fred

    There is simply 6 years that have not been truly accounted for in his reduction. Although alot has been stated in the papers as to what this reduction was the result of there has been nothing formally presented from the Court. Otto has stated many times that Italy does not do deals and I happen to disagree with that. Whether it is a formal plea bargain or a back room deal there is something very strange about his sentence IMO

  12. #12
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    I kind of hope they do go into the TOD, that seems to me to be the best potential to disprove the prosecution at this point.

  13. #13
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    As per RS's appeal, the Court used the wrong measurements in the Motivational Report. To simply try and ignore such a blatent error is wrong.

    The fact is as SV has stated above and which the experts themsevles have said the footprint cannot be attributed to any one person due to the fact that it is a partial print on an uneven surface

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonata View Post
    I kind of hope they do go into the TOD, that seems to me to be the best potential to disprove the prosecution at this point.
    I do as well. I believe that with the computer times and the limited window for the TOD, it would rule them out with complete certainty. We know that RS was on the phone with his father at 8:42 for 3 1/2 minutes and that MK made a call home at 8:56. We also know that there is computer activity acknowledged by the Court till 9:10. According to RS's appeal there is also computer activity at 9:26 with the cartoon and other activity after that.

    With the duodenum still empty there is simply no way her TOD could be past 9:30

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allusonz View Post
    As per RS's appeal, the Court used the wrong measurements in the Motivational Report. To simply try and ignore such a blatent error is wrong.

    The fact is as SV has stated above and which the experts themsevles have said the footprint cannot be attributed to any one person due to the fact that it is a partial print on an uneven surface
    I've read the reasoning on IIP for the wrong measurement Rinaldi made and it makes sense. Beyond that, however, one can use their own eyes to see that the measurement is off by comparing the measurement of the height of RS's big toe to the height of the ball of his foot. There's no way that measurement of 66.7mm is correct. That such an obvious and egregious error was made and not caught is atrocious.

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