The Verdict - Do you agree or disagree? #3

I don't personally believe the state acted poorly or carelessly, but I think a majority of the evidence was particularly risky in the way it was presented.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/07/15/...nce/index.html

This one too:

http://jurylaw.typepad.com/deliberat...recedents.html

Quote:
A cause of death that cannot be determined by the State’s medical examiner, but can be asserted on the stand by an anthropologist who has never done an autopsy. The morphing of a projected child’s photo into a picture of her skull. The description of a colorless decompositional fluid (which is typically black). Air samples that contain "the smell of death." A phantom image of heart sticker that “disappeared” before the examiner could return to photograph it.
I also believe that many of the witnesses were questionable from the Anthonys to Kronk to the ME who seemed to be coming up with a manner of death that was distrustful based on the fact that the remains were shifted by Kronk and definitely the weather.

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loreet said:

I've spent the last several weeks away from the board after I heard the verdict. I have to be honest, first I was shocked, then I was completely in denial (I was on vacation, perhaps my intelligence was wrong?), next followed the various experiences of anger/rage, bargaining (perhaps the FBI can get her on additional charges, etc). I am not yet truly in the acceptance phase.

I feel a murderer has been allowed to walk free. For whatever series of awful coincidence and circumstance, Caylee Anthony has certainly not received justice. To me that is the bottom line.

The jury should have considered the case longer. I am certain the politics of the jury room affected the decision. Having served on a jury in a minor case, I know how difficult it is to speak up and not be swayed by peer pressure. Strong personalities dominate. There was a cruise to be taken. I do not care if there were tears and harsh realities of confusing circumstantial evidence and the law. If that was so, then the real evidence should certainly have been called back and clarification on points of the law asked for. Someone was pushing to get out of there quickly, before they did any real deliberation and came to a real verdict. Who? I do think they should all be looked at for misconduct. If they come out clean, good for them, let's drop the speculation. I am seriously thinking the idea of profession juries makes sense when I hear verdicts like this.

The judge in this case was so attentive to any detail that would avoid the chance of appeal, preferential treatment was given in some cases to the defence, some will argue too often and with bias. Not me.

The defence team did seem to my uneducated eye and ear to make ethical violations in the pursuit of their defence. I do not feel in any way they did a brilliant job at anything other than creating a farce of an atmosphere and taking great advantage of the judge and the prosecution's absolute integrity, over and over again.

The witness lied. CA obfuscated the truth and no jury should really have to figure out how to find truth within the testimony presented to them, even if it is proven beyond a reasonable doubt to be false after the fact. It is not their job. There should be true consequences for this deliberate lying, both to CA herself, her attorney, and the defence lawyers for laying that travesty of justice out there. Someone told her what to say about the things she looked up in those searches - she is not that smart. Other people will take her lead in lying if they are not brought to justice, especially CA. She should receive absolute maximum penalties for what she did. I am certain that she lied about many many worse things during this case as well, at least get her on what they can.

The prosecution team did not have the strongest evidence to work with, but the evidence of a body in the mother's car seems pretty strong to me. Setting out additional charges might have helped, but I doubt the jury would have actually considered any lesser charge for any greater consideration, given the lack of even a guilty verdict on the aggravated child abuse charge. Caylee Anthony died in the care of her mother and ended up bagged like trash in the woods. There really has to be some accountability there. Right there.

I fault the jury. If I was one of those people, I would truly not be able to live with myself, realizing I had made such an enormous mistake. Blame the weather if you have to, but our legal system should be able to see beyond that hurricane. I blame the jury, the defence, and of course the Anthony family, CA and GA for raising a lying murderer and not intervening, even covering up, and of course the murderer herself. She will, I promise, get whatever karma is due her. I just hope it happens sooner rather than later, so we can all see it and get some of our lost hope and faith back in our justice system. I am thrilled to see that no one is willing to interview Casey, nor hire her lawyers. I personally will never watch any of them, read their books or in any way support any of the family foundations. Caylee Anthony on the other hands, has my support and prayers, she always has and always will.

Sorry to vent and do it so verbosely, after taking time off and not reading previous posts in this thread, 2 things I rarely do. I am certain everything I said has been said better and often since the verdict came down, i just needed to get it off my own mind for some peace, if not reconciliation, with this verdict. So thank you for asking

loreet

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Just as the trial confirmed for me that Caylee's death was not accidental, this thread has confirmed for me that at least one juror knew more about the case than he/she admitted and entered the courtroom with an opinion and agenda already well formed. The extraordinary leaps the pro-verdict supporters are making are staggering in the depth and breadth of unsubstantiated rumor and misinformed bias they appear to spring from

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thedeviledadvocate said:

I agree with the verdict. There have been numerous posts of some who agree with the verdict and why, and many who don't and why. Both points of view have merit. I could list the all the reasons why I agree with the verdict again, as I have in a number of past posts, however, <modsnip>. There is one poll that has 56% who disagree and 44% who agree. That poll is as accurate as any other poll in the mainstream media. On this site, which is an advocate for children, the percentage is probably closer to 85 to 90% who disagree and 10 to 15% who agree.

We just returned from a week's vacation in Miami. I have a very independent, smart, but just too friendly 9 year old granddaughter, and I was paranoid every minute she was out of my sight. LOL. Part of the reason for my paranoi, was from reading about so many tragic events that are posted on this site. Knowing how many children of all ages go missing every year makes me very paranoid (cautious, is probably a better word ). I am just as para..... er cautious here at home in the big city, because children disappear in a heartbeat. The point I am trying to make is that those of us who frequent this site, love children, and when someone does something bad to a child, we want the person responsible for the bad thing to pay for harming the child.

I do not now, nor have I ever believed that anyone murdered Caylee. I believe Caylee drown in the pool on the morning of the 16th in June of 2008. I believe both GA and KC were in the house when this tragedy occurred. I agree with the verdict, because there is no way to determine which of these two were responsible for Caylee at the time.

That being said, I think they should have called 911. There are very few reasons I can think of as to WHY they did not call 911. The only reasons I can think of are very bad, very, very bad, but not murder. That was the beginning of the snowball that got out of control. When neither GA nor KC called 911, the snowball started rolling, and one bad thing led to another. Whether it was grief, trying to hide some dark secret, fear of CA, or just plain panic, leaving Caylee's body in the woods seems like a terrible thing to do. Then the bad behavior, the bad checks, and then the lying to police. All of which would have been avoided had either KC or GA called 911 in the first place.

Caylee died of a drowning accident. Depending on what was happening inside the A's home at the time Caylee drown, would determine who was truly responsible. If GA was still asleep, and KC was on the phone or computer, then KC was responsible. If KC asked GA to watch Caylee for a few while she showered, then GA was responsible. If this family is as dysfunctional as it sometimes seems to be, who could ever really know what happened that morning, even if GA or KC did a tell all interview, who could believe either of them? Not me.

If KC is just a dumb kid, who wasn't paying attention to her child, and her child drowned, she will live with that guilt the rest of her life. If she sells her story, either by book, interviews, or movie rights, and she makes enough to pay the state off (saving the taxpayers money), to pay TES and to pay any other costs for the multitude that is suing her, and to get herself some good counseling, then I don't have a problem with that.

If KC is the mastermind murderess that many think she is, and she got away with murder, well, she will find out what a spiteful Bi*#& Karma is. I won't have a problem with that either. I do believe those who are truly evil on this earth, will never rest in peace.

As for the jurors, in the polls I saw pre verdict, the overall average guess was it would take less than 3 hours of deliberation. Most people thought it would not take very long to come to a decision. It took this jury 3 and a half times longer than what most people thought it would take. They unanimously agreed to not guilty on the first 3 counts, and guilty on the last 4 counts. I think they came to the right decision based on the testimony and evidence presented at trial. In its simplest form, the state did not present the evidence to prove a premeditated murder beyond a reasonable doubt, and on counts 2 and 3, the jury could not determine whether KC or GA was responsible for Caylee, beyond a reasonable doubt, at the time Caylee died. So, in my opinion, they made the right decision on all counts.

As always, my entire post is my opinion only.

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thedeviledadvocate said:

I agree with the verdict. There have been numerous posts of some who agree with the verdict and why, and many who don't and why. Both points of view have merit. I could list the all the reasons why I agree with the verdict again, as I have in a number of past posts, however, those who disagree with the verdict, will disagree with everything I post. There is one poll that has 56% who disagree and 44% who agree. That poll is as accurate as any other poll in the mainstream media. On this site, which is an advocate for children, the percentage is probably closer to 85 to 90% who disagree and 10 to 15% who agree.

We just returned from a week's vacation in Miami. I have a very independent, smart, but just too friendly 9 year old granddaughter, and I was paranoid every minute she was out of my sight. LOL. Part of the reason for my paranoi, was from reading about so many tragic events that are posted on this site. Knowing how many children of all ages go missing every year makes me very paranoid (cautious, is probably a better word ). I am just as para..... er cautious here at home in the big city, because children disappear in a heartbeat. The point I am trying to make is that those of us who frequent this site, love children, and when someone does something bad to a child, we want the person responsible for the bad thing to pay for harming the child.

I do not now, nor have I ever believed that anyone murdered Caylee. I believe Caylee drown in the pool on the morning of the 16th in June of 2008. I believe both GA and KC were in the house when this tragedy occurred. I agree with the verdict, because there is no way to determine which of these two were responsible for Caylee at the time.

That being said, I think they should have called 911. There are very few reasons I can think of as to WHY they did not call 911. The only reasons I can think of are very bad, very, very bad, but not murder. That was the beginning of the snowball that got out of control. When neither GA nor KC called 911, the snowball started rolling, and one bad thing led to another. Whether it was grief, trying to hide some dark secret, fear of CA, or just plain panic, leaving Caylee's body in the woods seems like a terrible thing to do. Then the bad behavior, the bad checks, and then the lying to police. All of which would have been avoided had either KC or GA called 911 in the first place.

Caylee died of a drowning accident. Depending on what was happening inside the A's home at the time Caylee drown, would determine who was truly responsible. If GA was still asleep, and KC was on the phone or computer, then KC was responsible. If KC asked GA to watch Caylee for a few while she showered, then GA was responsible. If this family is as dysfunctional as it sometimes seems to be, who could ever really know what happened that morning, even if GA or KC did a tell all interview, who could believe either of them? Not me.

If KC is just a dumb kid, who wasn't paying attention to her child, and her child drowned, she will live with that guilt the rest of her life. If she sells her story, either by book, interviews, or movie rights, and she makes enough to pay the state off (saving the taxpayers money), to pay TES and to pay any other costs for the multitude that is suing her, and to get herself some good counseling, then I don't have a problem with that.

If KC is the mastermind murderess that many think she is, and she got away with murder, well, she will find out what a spiteful Bi*#& Karma is. I won't have a problem with that either. I do believe those who are truly evil on this earth, will never rest in peace.

As for the jurors, in the polls I saw pre verdict, the overall average guess was it would take less than 3 hours of deliberation. Most people thought it would not take very long to come to a decision. It took this jury 3 and a half times longer than what most people thought it would take. They unanimously agreed to not guilty on the first 3 counts, and guilty on the last 4 counts. I think they came to the right decision based on the testimony and evidence presented at trial. In its simplest form, the state did not present the evidence to prove a premeditated murder beyond a reasonable doubt, and on counts 2 and 3, the jury could not determine whether KC or GA was responsible for Caylee, beyond a reasonable doubt, at the time Caylee died. So, in my opinion, they made the right decision on all counts.

As always, my entire post is my opinion only.

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Sustained said:

With all due respect ...

Please help us out and publish these polls where it was said that it would take less than 3 hours of deliberation time. I'd really like to know who conducted the poll and who was polled.

Please also tell us what those very bad, bad reasons might be as to why someone would not call 911 if Caylee was not murdered. Please also tell us why a loving grandfather and supposedly loving mother would dump their loved one in a field for animals to chew on. I'm sure you couldn't even imagine that happening to your 9-year-old granddaughter, could you ?

Please continue and tell us why a woman would sit in jail for almost 3 years because of an accident. I know it's hard to believe that a loving mother would harm her child, but by all outside accounts, Darlie Routier was a loving mother as was Susan Smith as was Andrea Yates.

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Sustained said:

With all due respect ...

Please help us out and publish these polls where it was said that it would take less than 3 hours of deliberation time. I'd really like to know who conducted the poll and who was polled.

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Who_What_When said:

respectfully snipped by me...



I'm not sure what polls thedeviledadvocate is referring to but on this forum the question was asked and the average time that most websleuthers thought the jury would deliberate was 2 days or as one poster commented: 9.325 Hours which might equate to 2 days with breaks and questions.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143104&highlight=jury

I think a day was about the average time I saw on other sites but I could be wrong. I remember thinking that it would be 2 or 3 days and debating with someone on here who thought it wouldnt take less than an hour to find her guilty.

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librazone said:

There is one aspect concerning the jury of which I am certain and it is this...if I had young children I would never ever allow them to be around any of these jurors.

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Sustained said:

I would have been more interested in polling past jurors that had sat on a trial with approximately the same amount of complicated expert testimony and amount of evidence. Also, I did not participate in the WS poll and would have found her guilty of felony murder by aggravated child abuse. But I can tell you based on all of the evidence seen, my estimate would have been 5-7 days to give all of the evidence the time it deserved and try to piece the circumstantial puzzle together.

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librazone said:

No I dont mean they are dangerous in a physical manner but certainly people who are unable to follow a logical thought process... that is are unable to follow things through in any particular situation are not the type of people I would want around young children. Of course this probably applies to many other people as well. Just saying.

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Sustained said:

With all due respect ...

Please help us out and publish these polls where it was said that it would take less than 3 hours of deliberation time. I'd really like to know who conducted the poll and who was polled.

Please also tell us what those very bad, bad reasons might be as to why someone would not call 911 if Caylee was not murdered. Please also tell us why a loving grandfather and supposedly loving mother would dump their loved one in a swamp for animals to chew on. I'm sure you couldn't even imagine that happening to your 9-year-old granddaughter, could you ?

Please continue and tell us why a woman would sit in jail for almost 3 years because of an accident. I know it's hard to believe that a loving mother would harm her child, but by all outside accounts, Darlie Routier was a loving mother as was Susan Smith as was Andrea Yates.

Click to expand...