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Thread: NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #8

  1. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoops View Post
    Yeah, I re-listened to the interview as well and I am confusing this interview with a newspaper article done in which one of these two investigators (Shamshak or Healy) talked about dragging a nearby lake/pond near where Maura wrecked and that they had concluded she would be found within a short distance in miles from where she wrecked.
    Do you have a link for that article?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pittsburghgirl View Post
    Why would she call a condo owner if she wasn't interested in renting a condo? For all we know, she may have been looking to invite someone to join her for a few days. She was supposed to call her dad that night; if she really wanted a chance to think over what was bothering her, and she wanted to talk to her father, she could have siad, "Hey, I've got a condo up here. Could you come up and stay for a few days?" Or she may have felt a condo would be safer for a single female than a motel. I know I have an awful time trying to relax in a hotel or motel.
    I think it is possible she didn't realize the cost of a condo and that you need to reserve one ahead of time with a deposit. She probably didn't have much experience in renting travel lodging. JMO

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    Quote Originally Posted by McSpy View Post
    After getting to town, she could have called on him on a public phone for advice on what to do and a ride. Perhaps, he came up to NH from Amherst to pick her up or help her out, but ends up hurting her. This may be far fetched.

    As for relationships, I'm guessing she was more comfortable with Billy, then with Hoss. There may have been a cultural difference, he wasn't aware of. She noticed it though.

    Just some thoughts, I could be wrong.
    Kinda was thinking the same theory as you. Does anyone know where Hoss lived at the time Maura went missing?

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  6. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by McSpy View Post
    Do you have a link for that article?
    The article was from the SOCO piece that came out not too long ago.

    here is the excerpt:

    Were certain she is within a five-mile radius. She was murdered, we are looking for her body. Weve searched around one pond in Haverhill with a Quincy (Mass) diving team. We plan to search the pond again shortly.

    This wasn't either shamshak or Healy but rather his name is terrence O'Connell. He was directly hired by Fred Murray to investigate and it is not clear to me if he is working directly with the NH league of investigators or independently on his own.

    Either way, I am surprised I remebered that tidbit, because I never have liked that article much. Thought it was very slanted.

    I was just going off memory, so I think I fused O'Connell with the other investigators and he may very well be working directly with them anyway.

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  8. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoops View Post
    The article was from the SOCO piece that came out not too long ago.

    here is the excerpt:

    Were certain she is within a five-mile radius. She was murdered, we are looking for her body. Weve searched around one pond in Haverhill with a Quincy (Mass) diving team. We plan to search the pond again shortly.

    This wasn't either shamshak or Healy but rather his name is terrence O'Connell. He was directly hired by Fred Murray to investigate and it is not clear to me if he is working directly with the NH league of investigators or independently on his own.

    Either way, I am surprised I remebered that tidbit, because I never have liked that article much. Thought it was very slanted.

    I was just going off memory, so I think I fused O'Connell with the other investigators and he may very well be working directly with them anyway.
    Seems certain, I wonder why?

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    Quote Originally Posted by McSpy View Post
    I think it is possible she didn't realize the cost of a condo and that you need to reserve one ahead of time with a deposit. She probably didn't have much experience in renting travel lodging. JMO
    I think you are right. It's also possible (and compatible with your point) that Maura was like many people who hope that a property owner might discount a unit rather than let it sit vacant--or perhaps she was trying to be smart, not wanting to leave without having an idea of where she might stay or to get i to driving around, looking for a place in the dark. My recollection is that the family had stayed in condos before, so that might have been the "first thought." This part of the mystery seems pretty self-evident and straight-forward. She wanted to go to the mountains and needed a place to stay, so she did some searching and made a few calls.

    Sometimes mysterious cases that have been solved remind us that the clues we have are not all that mysterious. Chandra Levy had googled "Rock Creek Park" and there was all sorts of speculation that she had gone there to meet with Gary Condit, or someone working for him. Turns out she was looking for a place to jog. Wrong place, wrong time. It is likely, in my view, that Maura was just looking for a place to stay.

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  11. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by McSpy View Post
    I think it is possible she didn't realize the cost of a condo and that you need to reserve one ahead of time with a deposit. She probably didn't have much experience in renting travel lodging. JMO
    Hadn't she stayed there before with her Dad or some place similar? I find it hard to believe she had no clue of the cost. For all we know she could have made the reservations for all their outings.

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  13. #258
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    Couple of thoughts:

    -- I'm reading a lot of comments regarding MM's decision-making process immediately after the second accident. The mostly likely truth is that she was significantly impaired by alcohol and perhaps by concussion, which means that logic isn't a very good guide in determining what she was thinking.

    -- I'm also reading about her love of hiking. As one poster noted, mountain climbing in winter is an entirely different matter than hiking in summer. I could understand her desire to take a bottle up on the trail somewhere and end her life, but otherwise the notion that she was intending to hike on this trip seems far-fetched to me. (In some of these areas, you'd have a very difficult time battling your way through even to the foot of the trail, not to mention finding the trail at all.)

    -- I'm guessing that she had at least a tentative plan and destination when she set out, but after a certain amount of alcohol and a few wrong turns, I'm not sure her arrival at the accident scene is a very good indication of her original intent. She may have just been wandering in a fog at that point.

    -- My reading of Renner's blog suggests to me that LE has always known many of the facts that are now emerging, but that they have, perhaps erroneously, concluded that these facts are not important or else have been unable to verify them.
    "Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And when you look long into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you." -- Nietzsche

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  15. #259
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    About that bank account

    Thoughts/questions about the tip that Renner published about a MM car loan account being open and current several years after her disappearance:

    Until MM is declared dead or a court intervenes, I assume her accounts would stay open. A court would intervene only if someone (a family member) petitioned for authority to manage her financial affairs until she was found. But a college student might have very few financial affairs -- perhaps only a car loan automatically paid each month out of a checking account. I could imagine that rather than hire a lawyer to petition the court, the father might have decided just to feed the checking account enough to keep the loan current. Could that explain the tip Renner got? That payments were being made long after MM disappeared? Or am I missing something?
    "Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And when you look long into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you." -- Nietzsche

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  17. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by pittsburghgirl View Post
    I think you are right. It's also possible (and compatible with your point) that Maura was like many people who hope that a property owner might discount a unit rather than let it sit vacant--or perhaps she was trying to be smart, not wanting to leave without having an idea of where she might stay or to get i to driving around, looking for a place in the dark. My recollection is that the family had stayed in condos before, so that might have been the "first thought." This part of the mystery seems pretty self-evident and straight-forward. She wanted to go to the mountains and needed a place to stay, so she did some searching and made a few calls.

    Sometimes mysterious cases that have been solved remind us that the clues we have are not all that mysterious. Chandra Levy had googled "Rock Creek Park" and there was all sorts of speculation that she had gone there to meet with Gary Condit, or someone working for him. Turns out she was looking for a place to jog. Wrong place, wrong time. It is likely, in my view, that Maura
    was just looking for a place to stay.
    I think Maura forgot about ski season up there, which can fill rooms. Although, there may have been rooms available on a Monday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gnomony View Post
    Thoughts/questions about the tip that Renner published about a MM car loan account being open and current several years after her disappearance:

    Until MM is declared dead or a court intervenes, I assume her accounts would stay open. A court would intervene only if someone (a family member) petitioned for authority to manage her financial affairs until she was found. But a college student might have very few financial affairs -- perhaps only a car loan automatically paid each month out of a checking account. I could imagine that rather than hire a lawyer to petition the court, the father might have decided just to feed the checking account enough to keep the loan current. Could that explain the tip Renner got? That payments were being made long after MM disappeared? Or am I missing something?
    The thought has crossed my mind as well. The only problem I have with it is what car were they paying off? Was it the Saturn? This also makes me ask if she didn't own the Saturn that long before it started to have engine problems. Could it have been a 4 year loan?

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    Quote Originally Posted by telemag View Post
    Hadn't she stayed there before with her Dad or some place similar? I find it hard to believe she had no clue of the cost. For all we know she could have made the reservations for all their outings.
    It is possible Maura's father never discussed the cost to his kids. Kids sometimes underestimate the cost of things, until they have to pay for it themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by McSpy View Post
    It is possible Maura's father never discussed the cost to his kids. Kids sometimes underestimate the cost of things, until they have to pay for it themselves.
    http://www.seasonsnh.com/rates.html

    The rates to the rooms are clearly listed on the sight she was on. It is not logical to assume that she didn't know the rates.

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    Quote Originally Posted by McSpy View Post
    The thought has crossed my mind as well. The only problem I have with it is what car were they paying off? Was it the Saturn? This also makes me ask if she didn't own the Saturn that long before it started to have engine problems. Could it have been a 4 year loan?
    This is a little bit of assuming, but it's doubtful that the Saturn was in Mauara's name. Since her dad would have been the co-signer he would have come up on the loan as primary holder of the loan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by telemag View Post
    This is a little bit of assuming, but it's doubtful that the Saturn was in Mauara's name. Since her dad would have been the co-signer he would have come up on the loan as primary holder of the loan.
    The Saturn was registered in the name of Maura's father. That is why when police first ran the car's info, they came up with Fred's name and not Maura's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scoops View Post
    The Saturn was registered in the name of Maura's father. That is why when police first ran the car's info, they came up with Fred's name and not Maura's.
    Thanks Scoops, yeah I remember now becaues there was something about LE not informing Fred soon enough being that he was the owner of the car.

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    Quote Originally Posted by telemag View Post
    This is a little bit of assuming, but it's doubtful that the Saturn was in Mauara's name. Since her dad would have been the co-signer he would have come up on the loan as primary holder of the loan.
    I was only trying to figure what car they have been paying off to rule out that it was an older loan made prior to her disappearance. It was probably not the Saturn.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scoops View Post
    The Saturn was registered in the name of Maura's father. That is why when police first ran the car's info, they came up with Fred's name and not Maura's.
    If Fred co-signed wouldn't her name be on the loan too? I haven't done one of those in years, so I forgot how it worked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scoops View Post
    The Saturn was registered in the name of Maura's father. That is why when police first ran the car's info, they came up with Fred's name and not Maura's.
    Quote Originally Posted by telemag View Post
    http://www.seasonsnh.com/rates.html

    The rates to the rooms are clearly listed on the sight she was on. It is not logical to assume that she didn't know the rates.
    Good point, but maybe she didn't look at the rates. She just got the phone number and called. To me, it seemed like she was hurrying around that day. Yet, maybe she was going to use a credit card.

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    Quote Originally Posted by telemag View Post
    http://www.seasonsnh.com/rates.html

    The rates to the rooms are clearly listed on the sight she was on. It is not logical to assume that she didn't know the rates.
    The rates may not have been listed when she looked at the website 8 years ago. The internet has changed since then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moreack View Post
    The rates may not have been listed when she looked at the website 8 years ago. The internet has changed since then.
    Not sure what you mean by the interent changing since 2004 that would not allow a company to list their room rates? Maura called to rent a room and they will filled.

    I have never known anyone to rent a room without asking rates. Too bad that they were filled because she had to use a CC to hold it and maybe she was going to use someone elses card.
    Last edited by telemag; 09-11-2011 at 07:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by McSpy View Post
    Good point, but maybe she didn't look at the rates. She just got the phone number and called. To me, it seemed like she was hurrying around that day. Yet, maybe she was going to use a credit card.
    What makes you think she was in a hurry? When you go to that site there is the word "rates" so I'm betting she clicked on that tab. Would have been way too easy, took me less than one second to find out the rates.

    If all Maura wanted to know was the phone number then the whitepages would have been easier for only that info.

    Maura did a lot of research before she left including looking at info on pregnancy and the effects of alcohol on unborn fetus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by telemag View Post
    What makes you think she was in a hurry? When you go to that site there is the word "rates" so I'm betting she clicked on that tab. Would have been way too easy, took me less than one second to find out the rates.

    If all Maura wanted to know was the phone number then the whitepages would have been easier for only that info.

    Maura did a lot of research before she left including looking at info on pregnancy and the effects of alcohol on unborn fetus.
    Not that I think it matters a whole lot. But I just posted that link to the website of the condo that Maura called. It no way means for certain that she even looked up that place vie the internet. She likely already knew about that place, because I think her and her father stayed there before. She may have already had the phone number or in fact she may have gone to the internet site.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scoops View Post
    Not that I think it matters a whole lot. But I just posted that link to the website of the condo that Maura called. It no way means for certain that she even looked up that place vie the internet. She likely already knew about that place, because I think her and her father stayed there before. She may have already had the phone number or in fact she may have gone to the internet site.
    Thanks for the info. Since I believe that Maura was on her way to meet someone (and I seem to be the minority in that catagory here) I think all of that info is important. I think it possible that someone else was going to pay for the room and other expenses that may have occured on this what seemed to be long vacation. I find it hard to believe that Maura was going to kill herself when she was possibly pregnant. Maura may have decided to start over with her child all by herself. Maura was a very pretty girl and I don't find it too hard to believe that she found a man to take care of her.

    On the other hand maybe Maura was abducted by a man and killed and buried and we will never find her. I wonder what the odds are that this actually happened. I know girls who jog the same dark path night after night and although not smart in my book they do it over and over with never a problem. This would make it real easy for someone to abduct them since they have a pattern that someone could follow. There was no pattern in Maura's case. It was a chance happening on a dark cold night on a very secluded road.

    The main ingredient in any of these scenarios is there needs to be a "killer present in the area to begin with". Some may argue that maybe the man who picked Maura up on the side of the road was not a serial killer, but because he had the oppertunity to maybe rape and or kill her he took it. The problem I have with that is it could be assumed that just about any man could be a cold blooded killer given the right circumstances. I obviously do not believe that to be the case.

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  36. #275
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    http://southshorexpress.com/extras/s...departure.html

    Here is the chronology, and pretty much what is known about the phone call. This quotation is from the Hansen Express article linked above. There is another article somewhere with just Sharon Rausch and Linda Salamone, which says pretty much the same thing. The Disappeared episode is a third source of the same account.

    Just before 1 p.m. she called Dominic and Linda Salamone, a couple who own a rental condominium at the Seasons at Attitash Resort in Bartlett, New Hampshire. Maura's family, which frequented the Bartlett area, had stayed at the Seasons, though never at this condominium.
    The Salamones don't remember the conversation with Maura but they are certain she did not book their condominium. To do so on such short notice would have been impossible, explained Linda Salamone. "We don't operate like a hotel." Rentals must be booked far in advance in order for the Salamones to drop a key in the mail.
    The call to the Salamones lasted about three minutes, records show. Linda Salamone speculates she might have offered Maura recommendations on other places to stay, though her memory was foggy by the time police finally interviewed her - nearly a year after Maura went missing…..
    At 2:05 p.m. Maura made a five-minute call to 1-800-GOSTOWE, where hotel bookings can be made. The "Go Stowe" system was actually out of order at this time so Maura could not have made a reservation and could only listen to voice recordings.
    Because there was an 8-month gap between the 2/9 call and Sharon Rausch's contact with Linda Salamone, we are in the position where we don't know for sure what was said, e.g., if Maura told Linda she was meeting someone else, how long she planned to stay, etc. We do know that the Murrays had stayed in the same condo complex (but not the Salamone condo) and we know (likely) that the Salamones have to have enough notice to mail a key. We also know that Maura tried the Go Stowe 800 number but it was down. So we can surmise she wanted to make a reservation and probably preferred a place that was known to her (maybe because she had an idea of how to get there).

    I am sure there are and were a number listings of resort rentals on the internet for
    Bartlett and Stowe. We don't know how Maura got the number for the Salamones, but I am sure LE does if she used the internet. The NH state police, however, didn't care to know what Maura might have said to one identified person she spoke to about the trip. Just sayin'.

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