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Thread: NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by rosierider View Post
    In the past, I think the incoming call was dismissed as her calling her voice mail and wasn't adequately investigated. I have thought back to myself at Maura's age, trying to understand her motives/actions. I had a secret love, and because of that I did things that would have seemed strange, had anyone investigated me. I believe Maura was a young girl in love, a strong and reckless love, and full of guilt for having to keep it a secret. That's the reason for the strong (over)reaction to a phone call, that's why she took off in the middle of the night to her "dad's motel" and that's the reason for the fateful trip too. Love....I know I did a lot of foolish things because of it when I was 20-ish. It's the only thing that makes Maura's story make sense to me.
    So, do you think this secret lover killed her or are they living in secret somewhere?

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  3. #527
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Noatak View Post
    My opinions only, no facts here:

    To keep this thread inspired, I will repost a series of discussions I presented on this case awhile back. These posts been very slightly modified for clarity:

    Part 1: There is a "fight or flight" aspect to everybody's personality. It takes a certain event or a chain of successive events for this happen. After Maura wrecked her father's car, something snapped. Something driven by guilt over the accident and a thousand, nay a million snippets of prior history that define one's individual and fascinating personality. Maura decided to go on a road trip for soul-searching and with the childish thought in the back of her mind that she would rent a room up north and call her father and have him come up and visit with her near the old location where they used to go when she was a little girl. Maura is not a party animal, but bought some alcohol and was sipping it as she went. That is only natural (in spite of open container laws), because she
    was stressed and just wishing to stay calm. Unfortunately, she was not 100% sober when she rounded the bend on Wild Ammonoosuc Road in wintery conditions, and she slid off. Now, she is really feeling frantic- what if the cops come and arrest her for DUI? She is wrestling with feelings of guilt, remorse, and confusion (even though in reality she has done nothing wrong). She was offered help by a bus driver, but refused it. She walked 100 yards to the junction with Bradley Hill Road at about 1 Wild Ammonoosuc Road. That is where she disappeared. That is where the dog tracked her. That is where the scent ended. Prior to this event, everything that happened was "white noise" and unrelated.

    Part 2: As I stated previously, I believe that the crime started at Bradley Hill Road at about 1 Wild Ammonoosuc Road. I am aware of the rag or whatever stuffed in the tailpipe of Maura’s car. I acknowledge it could have been sabotage by another or even a suicide attempt, but this detail somehow seems
    so irreverent that is has to be overlooked for now. But if someone were to argue that all of the white noise in the case ended when the car slid off the road and the initial crime occurred right there, I would not vehemently argue against them. But I still believe that Maura walked the 100 yards from the car wreck to Bradley Hill Road at about 1 Wild Ammonoosuc Road by herself. The people who permanently lived around the location of Maura’s disappearance all seem to be respectable and decent. Some of them have subsequently been hounded and I cannot blame them if they are tired of talking. The officers who stopped by the accident scene early on (but Maura was already gone), also appear to be stalwart individuals who acted professionally. I suggest the sleuth look a wee bit beyond the presently-known names for a suspect.

    I usually list a calculation of the odds of certain outcomes in an unsolved criminal case. This shows the readers where my mind is at and what my biases are. So here goes:

    Maura was abducted by someone who was a “sometimes-resident” of the area- 3 out of 7.
    Maura was abducted by someone who was a permanent resident of the area- 2 out of 7.
    Maura was abducted by someone randomly passing through- 1 out of 7.
    Maura wandered into the woods and died in a non-criminal manner- 0.5 out of 7.
    Maura went on a marathon run down the road to places unknown- 0.5 out of 7.
    Part 3: following my two previous posts on the Maura Murray case, I want to list the strategies that I have used in the Holly Bobo, Jamison family, Maura Murray, and McStay family cases (and some others):

    1) look up ALL of the people named in the case (witnesses, people you suspect, officials, etc.) who are interesting to you- on the internet. Use Google advanced search and put keep adding currently-relevant words in the “without any of these words box” until you can read about the person PRIOR to the case. In the Maura Murray case, simply typing the word “Maura” in the unwanted words box will significantly reduce the number of hits, although this can also cause you to lose a few relevant hits. As soon as a new sensational crime is reported, all of the associated players show up on thousands or hundreds of thousands of hits related to the current case. This is internet “white noise”, and prevents you from getting hits about the person’s past prior to the case.
    2) if all of the people named in the case check out OK (no prison time, arrest warrants, UFO abductions etc.), then look at their immediate relatives using Google advanced search in the same reverse manner. Parents have sons and daughters and sons and daughters have parents. There are brothers and sisters and uncles. It is a package deal.
    3) to better laser-in-on an individual person of interest, pay close attention to which of the main players is telling the least-believable story. Whose fish gets longer every time they tell the story, and whose fish stays the same length? Silence by itself does not prove anything. People who are even incidentally involved in high-profile cases are being hounded constantly and oft-times get tired of talking to the press. Pay attention to those who offer up words and shrug about the silent ones. There is little you can do about silence. So what might constitute a non-believable story? Three things stand out for me: the story changes significantly over time, the story-teller’s memory gets more accurate with time, or their story is widely-rejected by other major NAMED players in the case.

    As others have noted on websleuths, I rarely use a suspect's name. But I give tips so others can have the satisfation of finding their own names. In the best (and worst) case scenario, Maura may be a mile or less from where she disappeared.

    Something that police should ask when they go door-to-door in the neighborhood after a crime: do you have any relatives visiting your house or lodging out back? The person who answers the door is not the entire picture.

    I am not being provocative, I am being practical. There are three categories in a neighborhood: permanent, sometimes, and transient. The permanent are more likely to be solid and uninvolved. The transient have less to lose and are
    most likely to be involved. But the ones in the middle are sometimes overlooked.
    I think she could have been hit by a car. It was pitch black and the roads are windy. This is on my list of possibilities.

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  5. #528
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    McSpy, I never thought of that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by McSpy View Post
    I think she could have been hit by a car. It was pitch black and the roads are windy. This is on my list of possibilities.
    I kinda dismiss this possibility because i would think that if she was hit by a car some evidence oF that would have been found by now...I think its doubtful that if she did get hit that the driver would have taken her body away, unless of course she was still alive and the driver put her in the car, ostensibly to take her to hospital, but then she died on the way. The driver panicked, perhaps dumped her body; I would think more likely the driver would have either called 911 or just taken off from the scene.

    JMO

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  9. #530
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodgirl65 View Post
    I kinda dismiss this possibility because i would think that if she was hit by a car some evidence oF that would have been found by now...I think its doubtful that if she did get hit that the driver would have taken her body away, unless of course she was still alive and the driver put her in the car, ostensibly to take her to hospital, but then she died on the way. The driver panicked, perhaps dumped her body; I would think more likely the driver would have either called 911 or just taken off from the scene.

    JMO
    I was thinking she was thrown from the impact into the woods. The driver may have thought they hit an animal.

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    I don't think Maura is alive. I have been trying to understand her actions. I don't believe she would have made that trip (in her lousy car) without a strong incentive. Getting away by herself doesn't seem like a good fit scenario.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rosierider View Post
    In the past, I think the incoming call was dismissed as her calling her voice mail and wasn't adequately investigated. I have thought back to myself at Maura's age, trying to understand her motives/actions. I had a secret love, and because of that I did things that would have seemed strange, had anyone investigated me. I believe Maura was a young girl in love, a strong and reckless love, and full of guilt for having to keep it a secret. That's the reason for the strong (over)reaction to a phone call, that's why she took off in the middle of the night to her "dad's motel" and that's the reason for the fateful trip too. Love....I know I did a lot of foolish things because of it when I was 20-ish. It's the only thing that makes Maura's story make sense to me.
    Thanks for those quote marks! I've been thinking about this case for years and it never occurred to me to question the assumption that she really was on her way to her father's motel that night. Yet now that you've put it in quotes, it suddenly seems very possible to me that she was headed somewhere else (she hadn't driven very far before the accident, so we can't be sure...)
    "Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And when you look long into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you." -- Nietzsche

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  15. #533
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    Quote Originally Posted by rosierider View Post
    I don't think Maura is alive. I have been trying to understand her actions. I don't believe she would have made that trip (in her lousy car) without a strong incentive. Getting away by herself doesn't seem like a good fit scenario.
    I disagree. I think it all depends on her personality. Some people hibernate when things are bothering them. IIRC, Maura told her boyfriend she didn't feel like talking at that time. I'm speculating she was in a mood to be alone when she went up to NH. Maura had a lot of friends, but I think she had a shy nature. IMO, she wasn't ready to talk to anyone or vent. This is just my impression.

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  17. #534
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    Quote Originally Posted by McSpy View Post
    I thought of this too, but it would be quite a coincidence someone in NH would call a MA number. The area code is different too.

    I disagree. Coincidence is not involved at all, chance is. People dial wrong numbers all the time whether locally or long-distance.

    Do any posters here know Maura's cell phone number? (I'm not asking to post it, TOS etc.) The cell plan belonged to Maura and Billy jointly; the bill was sent to Billy's mother, Sharon, in Ohio. Do we know if the account was opened in Massachusetts or in Ohio giving it an Ohio area code?

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    Quote Originally Posted by I Care View Post
    I disagree. Coincidence is not involved at all, chance is. People dial wrong numbers all the time whether locally or long-distance.

    Do any posters here know Maura's cell phone number? (I'm not asking to post it, TOS etc.) The cell plan belonged to Maura and Billy jointly; the bill was sent to Billy's mother, Sharon, in Ohio. Do we know if the account was opened in Massachusetts or in Ohio giving it an Ohio area code?
    It would be no coincidence if Maura had a Oklahoma or Ohio number. I know what you mean by a wrong number being called. It has happened to me, but it is a rare occurrence. It happens maybe once or twice a year. I'm not saying it is impossible, but it does seem odd it happened the night she decided to go up to NH and then disappeared. It could be nothing, but it does seem odd.

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    I see JR is interested in hearing about sightings of MM
    http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/

    I always find sighting of those who have gone missing to be questionable. See this all the time on the ID shows of missing people where all sorts of sightings get reported that never pan out.... It is so easy to mistakes someone who looks similar.
    IMO some kind of identifying mark or tattoo is needed to be sure, otherwise you can just about be certain the sighting isn't going to be the person.
    Used to say, "100 years from now, my problems won't matter; now-a-days it's more like 25 years!

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  23. #537
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldSteve View Post
    I see JR is interested in hearing about sightings of MM
    http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/

    I always find sighting of those who have gone missing to be questionable. See this all the time on the ID shows of missing people where all sorts of sightings get reported that never pan out.... It is so easy to mistakes someone who looks similar.
    IMO some kind of identifying mark or tattoo is needed to be sure, otherwise you can just about be certain the sighting isn't going to be the person.
    Oldsteve, I agree. A lot of people are not that great at distingishing faces. Also, most of the sightings were far from the scene.

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  25. #538
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    Here is a very good article on facial recognition:

    http://www.sciencenews.org/view/gene...fferent_person

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  27. #539
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    Something new on JR's blog:

    "Official Response"
    http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/

    Hmmmm, what to make of that?

    Also, still no word about what was found in the horse grave yard that Scoops was looking into?
    Used to say, "100 years from now, my problems won't matter; now-a-days it's more like 25 years!

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  29. #540
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldSteve View Post
    Something new on JR's blog:

    "Official Response"
    http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/

    Hmmmm, what to make of that?

    Also, still no word about what was found in the horse grave yard that Scoops was looking into?
    I have to agree with Renner. It looks like an ongoing criminal case. Yet, I think they could possibly be not absolutely sure, but do want to keep everything under wraps just in case the info they do have is actually evidence of a crime. They could have their eye on a potential suspect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldSteve View Post
    Something new on JR's blog:

    "Official Response"
    http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/

    Hmmmm, what to make of that?

    Also, still no word about what was found in the horse grave yard that Scoops was looking into?
    I haven't gotten anywhere new with the horse cemetery info. The NH assistant state's attorney won't return my calls and of the several news/radio sources I contacted that are in the area, none of them have followed up with anything. I even talked directly to the managing editor of the Caldonian Record and he promised that his staff would get some sort of an update on it ... and as to date, nothing has been done. And now when I call up there, he won't return my calls

    When I originally talked to Jeff Strelzin (Assistant AG), he told me they were expecting to have a release on their findings within the matter of weeks.

    But I could tell by his pause in his voice, that I had caught him off-guard, so he may have just been feeding me a line to get me to not press him any further and just go away.

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    Maura Murray is one of the most haunting cases I can remember...I can't help but wonder if she got picked up by our LISK killer....something about girls alone and in peril and maybe someone out there looking for them.

    maybe she got hit by a car, but you think a shoe or something would show up.

    she wasn't a humiliated run away daughter...I don't believe it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by minazoe View Post
    Maura Murray is one of the most haunting cases I can remember...I can't help but wonder if she got picked up by our LISK killer....something about girls alone and in peril and maybe someone out there looking for them.

    maybe she got hit by a car, but you think a shoe or something would show up.

    she wasn't a humiliated run away daughter...I don't believe it.
    Good point about the shoe. I saw a horrific accident on I-95 where a guy got hit by multiple cars. It was Christmas evening (cold here in New England) and both shoes were off his feet from the impacts. If she was hit by a car, her shoe or shoes could have been plowed into the side of the road from snow removal, especially if she was hit in an area they didn't search and it had snowed. Time went by so the shoe ended up on the side of the road in weeds. BTW, I used to cycle a lot. You'd be surprise what you see on the side of the road --dead birds, men's underwear, etc.

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    yeah it is possible that her remains could be there along one of the routes she walked in...but that said...how many options could she have had in that weather for a walk to destination?

    wouldn't you try to walk towards a lit area with commerce?

    wasn't there a gas station up aways?

    A big semi could send her flying into the trees...but I still think they would have found her by now...unless they are wrong about her even being there to begin with.

    now that will give you something crazy to think about...

    what if she was not driving that car?

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    let me just explain...

    What if the guy who says he encountered her, actually didn't?

    What if something happened to Maura before the car was left there...

    we just have this one person who claims to have seen her after the accident right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by minazoe View Post
    let me just explain...

    What if the guy who says he encountered her, actually didn't?

    What if something happened to Maura before the car was left there...

    we just have this one person who claims to have seen her after the accident right?
    No, there were several witnesses that saw a lone female by the car the night of the accident. The witness/bus driver that stumbled into her along the road wasn't even the first one to report her to 911.

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  39. #547
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    sorry, I haven't been looking at this case in sometime...you are right ...i remember now.

    did we ever get details on the hysterical phone call with the sister?

    am I remembering correctly that she would not elaborate.

    what does Maura's sister think happened?

    wasn"t there a boyfriend issue? why would she withold? Did Maura have any weapons?

    was she suicidal?

    such a cold dark night...what a terrible place to be drunk and in a crash... a simple head injury could have sent her into the woods or away from help....she may have walked off to pee and died.

    they need to look every place they have not searched...opposite of where they looked before...

    are there any other missing women in that area or on that route?

    I appreciate the refresh.

  40. #548
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoops View Post
    I haven't gotten anywhere new with the horse cemetery info. The NH assistant state's attorney won't return my calls and of the several news/radio sources I contacted that are in the area, none of them have followed up with anything. I even talked directly to the managing editor of the Caldonian Record and he promised that his staff would get some sort of an update on it ... and as to date, nothing has been done. And now when I call up there, he won't return my calls

    When I originally talked to Jeff Strelzin (Assistant AG), he told me they were expecting to have a release on their findings within the matter of weeks.

    But I could tell by his pause in his voice, that I had caught him off-guard, so he may have just been feeding me a line to get me to not press him any further and just go away.
    Thanks for the update! Interesting! You know the way a lawyer will tell his client not say anything to LE, seems like LE is doing that back to those who ask it questions....

    I fee this is what happened when JR asked his questions about the search warrant (see a few posts above) - it isn't really that case is that open, it just that LE is doing their version of being lawyer'ed up...
    Used to say, "100 years from now, my problems won't matter; now-a-days it's more like 25 years!

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  42. #549
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    Quote Originally Posted by minazoe View Post
    let me just explain...

    What if the guy who says he encountered her, actually didn't?

    What if something happened to Maura before the car was left there...

    we just have this one person who claims to have seen her after the accident right?
    There were actually a few witnesses. Neighbors saw her. I'm pretty confident it was Maura who was driving that car and she was alone. This is where all the evidence points to . . the rest is wild speculations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by minazoe View Post
    sorry, I haven't been looking at this case in sometime...you are right ...i remember now.

    did we ever get details on the hysterical phone call with the sister?

    am I remembering correctly that she would not elaborate.

    what does Maura's sister think happened?

    wasn"t there a boyfriend issue? why would she withold? Did Maura have any weapons?

    was she suicidal?

    such a cold dark night...what a terrible place to be drunk and in a crash... a
    simple head injury could have sent her into the woods or away from help....she may have walked off to pee and died.

    they need to look every place they have not searched...opposite of where they looked before...

    are there any other missing women in that area or on that route?

    I appreciate the refresh.
    I don't think she went up there to commit suicide.

    I think she had either accepted a ride from someone bad, she got hit by a car, or she succumbed to the elements. I don't think it was complicated. It is extremely wooded where she disappeared and since she was a champion runner, she could have got far. If there was foul play involved, she could be anywhere in the forest, water or even on private property.

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