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  1. #376
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    snipped to point of interest
    Quote Originally Posted by jeffries View Post
    At the risk of being redundant, it seems to me that there are essentially two fates which could have befallen Maura. One, she succumbed to the elements - went into the woods, or what have you, and never came out. Two, she was picked up or abducted by a criminal.
    .
    First, have to laugh when you mentioned "at the risk of being redundant" - -I think we all are, and it seems to be the nature of these forums. So I enjoy reading peoples thoughts and views. Thanks for yours!

    Second, You mention two points. Consider a third - picked up by a person(s) who have no criminal background, but just happen to find them self with a vulnerable young woman...

  2. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldiegirl View Post
    I've really enjoyed reading all the new info (or supposed info) and theories posted lately from people who have been discussing this case much longer than I have. Two quick things I wanted to contribute. Other than this, I don't have much I can add to what's already been said.

    1) With regard to the discussion about whether or not Fred aggravated the situation by suing LE and whether or not that was a smart move - I can see that in hindsight (or second-hand hindsight, if you will, since it's coming from our perspective) it might seem like it wasn't the best way to encourage a cooperative relationship with LE. However, like others have said, what did he have to lose at this point? I think until a person's been in that situation, it's hard to throw stones.

    My husband went missing in a dangerous part of our city and was beaten and robbed (ultimately returned home and healed). I know how it feels to feel like LE is not taking a case seriously. I came to the point of weighing the pros and cons of filing an internal affairs complaint about the way the investigation and the missing persons reports were handled (or, rather, mishandled) until I realized it was better for our sanity just to let it go.

    After having been in that position, I empathize a lot more with Fred Murray and other family members who feel like LE isn't letting them in on what's going on. In my case, for example, they told me his parents, who live out of state, would be contacted before I would in the event my husband was found, because their first reaction was that I looked too young to be married. They didn't take me seriously at all, didn't tell me what to do in the interim, were very insensitive, and were ready to send me home by myself with no plan and no investigation starting until Monday (this happened on a Saturday), with the plan to call his PARENTS instead of me if he was found. It was insulting and devastating, not to mention the double victimization of how poorly the beating was handled later. Anyway, all this is to say that I've ALWAYS been a supporter of LE, my FIL is a police chief, my degree is in CJ, and I never thought I'd find myself in opposition with LE, but being the family member of a victim and feeling like LE is not on your side is a terrible feeling.

    On to my second point/question, finally...

    2) There's been mention of LE saying they believe Maura is deceased and can be found within a 5 mile radius of the crash site. I know 5 miles in each direction is a lot of ground to cover, but I wonder if anyone's ever thought about calling in an organization like Texas Equusearch to at least give it a shot if LE is so confident about this? I know at this juncture a lot of their tools, like tracking dogs, would be useless, but they still have a lot of manpower and can put a lot of feet on the ground to cover the area. I know there are "hotter" cases, and maybe the family thinks it would be in poor taste to ask them to use their resources on a case this old, but I believe they'll come out to pretty much any case they're called to help with, and I don't see what it could hurt.

    We just had a search here by the Laura Recovery Center for a girl who's been missing for over a year. One year, seven years, no difference, really. The dogs weren't going to pick anything up in her case, either, and if she were out there she'd be deceased at that point, so they were just looking for either her body or some evidence - same thing they'd be doing in Maura's case.
    Texas Equusearch was called. I don't know why they didn't search. It's fueled speculation that NHSP didn't need or want any outside help for whatever reasons.

  3. #378
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcsmom View Post
    Texas Equusearch was called. I don't know why they didn't search. It's fueled speculation that NHSP didn't need or want any outside help for whatever reasons.
    Do you know at what stage in the investigation they were called? I don't see any reason why someone can't call them again. Maybe initially LE told the family it would do no good, so they decided against it, but now that the Murrays don't seem to be getting anywhere with LE, I see no reason why they can't call TES back, even if LE says they don't need their help. The family has nothing to lose.

  4. #379
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    Regarding Maura's statement that she called AAA: we don't know that she didn't try to call someone. She may not have had cell service at the site of the accident and that might have prompted her to jog up the road, hoping to get a signal. In some places, all a person has to do is find a gap in the trees and cell service pops back. She may have decided not to wait for LE to show up and figured she could call AAA (if she had that) once she got to a place with cell service. So I am not convinced she was lying about the AAA. call; she might have intended to call once she had the opportunity, but fell victim to accident or foul play before she had a chance to call.
    Last edited by pittsburghgirl; 09-19-2011 at 12:12 AM.

  5. #380
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    Quote Originally Posted by pittsburghgirl View Post
    Regarding Maura's statement that she called AAA: we don't know that sje didn't try to call someone. she may not have had cell service at the site of the accident and that might have prompted her to jog up the road, hoping to get a signal. In some places, all a person has to do is find a gap in the trees and cell service pops back. She may have decided not to wait for LE to show up and figured she could call AAA (if she had that) once she got to a place with cell service. So I am not convinced she was lying about the AAA. call; she might have intended to call once she had the opportunity, but fell victim to accident or foul play before she had a chance to call.
    IIRC, her AAA card was found on the front passenger seat, which leaves me to believe she made attempts to call AAA. She didn't take the card with her when she took off. However, AAA would still come to her aid and get the card number at another time. They are very good about
    that. I'm not sure she knew how it works.

    I can't find a link on the AAA card being on the front passenger seat, but I could have sworn I read it somewhere. I do know for sure she left the AAA card in the car, because it was listed as one of the items she left behind.
    Last edited by McSpy; 09-18-2011 at 10:29 PM.

  6. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldiegirl View Post
    Do you know at what stage in the investigation they were called? I don't see any reason why someone can't call them again. Maybe initially LE told the family it would do no good, so they decided against it, but now that the Murrays don't seem to be getting anywhere with LE, I see no reason why they can't call TES back, even if LE says they don't need their help. The family has nothing to lose.
    Don't they use drones for searching? I think there needs to be a ground search in this case.

  7. #382
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    New stuff from James.

    It appears Maura was involved in a credit card issue and more stuff on Butch Atwood and rick forcier

    http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/

    I got the impression that the person the detective is implying Butch Atwood was scared of was his neighbor rick forcier but who knows.

  8. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by McSpy View Post
    Don't they use drones for searching? I think there needs to be a ground search in this case.
    TES does ground searches as far as I know. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you meant. I agree that there needs to be a ground search.

  9. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoops View Post
    New stuff from James.

    It appears Maura was involved in a credit card issue and more stuff on Butch Atwood and rick forcier

    http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/

    I got the impression that the person the detective is implying Butch Atwood was scared of was his neighbor rick forcier but who knows.
    According to this information, I guess they already have "pretty much searched everything within a 5 mile radius." Hmmm.

    Speaking of that, I'm a little confused about why whichever LE official it was said that he was confident she was murdered and could be found within a 5 mile radius of the crash site. Why the 5 miles radius comment? If someone else was involved, she could be ANYWHERE. If a creep picked her up, why wouldn't he take her a little further away from the crash site before killing her? That part just doesn't make sense to me. They may have evidence that leads them to believe she was murdered, but unless they have a specific suspect, I don't see how they can make the distance statement.

    ETA: Are we supposed to know who Rick Forsier is? Because I don't. I thought it was interesting how the article didn't explain anything about who is before mentioning his comments. I have no idea what his relationship is to the case. Did I miss something somewhere along the line that explains him?

  10. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldiegirl View Post
    According to this information, I guess they already have "pretty much searched everything within a 5 mile radius." Hmmm.

    Speaking of that, I'm a little confused about why whichever LE official it was said that he was confident she was murdered and could be found within a 5 mile radius of the crash site. Why the 5 miles radius comment? If someone else was involved, she could be ANYWHERE. If a creep picked her up, why wouldn't he take her a little further away from the crash site before killing her? That part just doesn't make sense to me. They may have evidence that leads them to believe she was murdered, but unless they have a specific suspect, I don't see how they can make the distance statement.

    ETA: Are we supposed to know who Rick Forsier is? Because I don't. I thought it was interesting how the article didn't explain anything about who is before mentioning his comments. I have no idea what his relationship is to the case. Did I miss something somewhere along the line that explains him?
    Rick Forcier lived right across the street from the school bus driver and he was a contractor who (around a month or so) after maura went missing, he came forward and said he thought he saw her running (the night she went missing) east down Rt. 112 about five miles from his house as he was returning home from work.

    Once again, no one in law enforcement has said that Maura would be found within a five mile radius. It was a private investigator that said so, one that was hired by Fred and I believe he was basing his statement on statistical norms for a missing person and an abandoned car. I don't believe there is some mystery evidence out there.


  11. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoops View Post
    New stuff from James.

    It appears Maura was involved in a credit card issue and more stuff on Butch Atwood and rick forcier

    http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/

    I got the impression that the person the detective is implying Butch Atwood was scared of was his neighbor rick forcier but who knows.
    This was interesting too:

    Healy believes Maura was murdered. "We're sure she was killed. Her death was caused by the intervention of another human being. And we're pretty sure we know who did it. Everything points to one direction."

    I agree, "Everything points in one direction" makes me think RF was responsible. Unless, there is someone out there not named in the media.
    I wonder if NH LE agrees with this?

  12. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldiegirl View Post
    According to this information, I guess they already have "pretty much searched everything within a 5 mile radius." Hmmm.

    Speaking of that, I'm a little confused about why whichever LE official it was said that he was confident she was murdered and could be found within a 5 mile radius of the crash site. Why the 5 miles radius comment? If someone else was involved, she could be ANYWHERE. If a creep picked her up, why wouldn't he take her a little further away from the crash site before killing her? That part just doesn't make sense to me. They may have evidence that leads them to believe she was murdered, but unless they have a specific suspect, I don't see how they can make the distance statement.

    ETA: Are we supposed to know who Rick Forsier is? Because I don't. I thought it was interesting how the article didn't explain anything about who is before mentioning his comments. I have no idea what his relationship is to the case.
    Did I miss something somewhere along the line that explains him?
    my bold . .

    Read the blog again (sometimes, I have to read it a few times to absorb everything) It looks like there is a suspect, but I'm guessing there isn't enough evidence to bring him in.

    I think Renner is writing to all the followers of this case. There are over 7 years of people following this case, which is why he probably didn't explain Rick's roll in the investigation. There are a few good articles still available on the web to read on Maura's disappearance, if you want to catch up.

  13. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldiegirl View Post
    TES does ground searches as far as I know. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you meant. I agree that there needs to be a ground search.
    I probably have it wrong. I should look at their website.

  14. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by scoops View Post
    Rick Forcier lived right across the street from the school bus driver and he was a contractor who (around a month or so) after maura went missing, he came forward and said he thought he saw her running (the night she went missing) east down Rt. 112 about five miles from his house as he was returning home from work.

    Once again, no one in law enforcement has said that Maura would be found within a five mile radius. It was a private investigator that said so, one that was hired by Fred and I believe he was basing his statement on statistical norms for a missing person and an abandoned car. I don't believe there is some mystery evidence out there.
    Ohhhh, thank you! I knew about the contractor, just didn't know his name. That also makes sense to hear that the PI seemed to be basing his statement on statistics.

  15. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by McSpy View Post
    my bold . .

    Read the blog again (sometimes, I have to read it a few times to absorb everything) It looks like there is a suspect, but I'm guessing there isn't enough evidence to bring him in.

    I think Renner is writing to all the followers of this case. There are over 7 years of people following this case, which is why he probably didn't explain Rick's roll in the investigation. There are a few good articles still available on the web to read on Maura's disappearance, if you want to catch up.
    Thanks for the info! Yes, I probably do have a lot of catching up to do, as I hadn't even heard about Maura until this year. I did actually know about the contractor, but I'd never read his name, so I didn't put two and two together.

    Also, just to take care of this all in one post, the reason I think TES does ground searches is because their name, Equus, is based off the fact that the organization started by using horses. They're also the group that couldn't search for Caylee Anthony during the flood (incidentally, they're also suing CA). I live in Houston, and they're based out of Dickinson, which is right between Houston and Galveston, so I know a little bit about them but not much. I guess it's mainly an assumption on my part that their volunteer searches are usually on the ground, but that's the impression I've always had for whatever reason.

    It would take a lot of manpower to search everywhere within a 5 mile radius, and if it's true that a search was already conducted, maybe it's not necessary. On the other hand, just because cadaver dogs didn't find anything doesn't mean they couldn't have missed something. I don't know. I just feel like if I were a member of her family and I heard that statement about the 5 mile radius, especially coming from my own PI, I'd be tempted to call them in and see what they could do.

    ETA: Obviously, it doesn't have to be TES. I'd just like to see some sort of ground search.
    Last edited by goldiegirl; 09-19-2011 at 01:45 AM.

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