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Thread: NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #8

  1. #826
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    Quote Originally Posted by McSpy View Post
    BBM
    It is possible she accepted a ride, but my gut feeling is if this happened, that person was responsible for her being missing. I also think she knew she took a risk, if she accepted a ride. In another scenario, she wouldn't have accepted the ride. That night in NH was an exception. I'm just going on gut feelings here.
    I agree. She got in a car with someone and that person or persons were the last people to see her alive and most likely killed her. Given the tight time frame they must have spotted her at a rest stop, connivence store or gas bar in Wells River or Woodsville and followed her. No other scenario makes sense.

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    What do you all think of the creepy videos posted on youtube (by 112dirtbag and mr112dirtbag)? The guy laughing makes my hair stand up on end, but I'm pretty sure it's an attention-seeker (albeit a disturbed one), rather than someone who actually knows something about the case. Do you think Mr112Dirtbag and 112Dirtbag are the same person, or is the former a copy-cat?

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    Some of the people on the Topix threads about Maura have made me very glad that WS has a strong set of mods who don't think that anything goes.

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  7. #829
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skigirl View Post
    What do you all think of the creepy videos posted on youtube (by 112dirtbag and mr112dirtbag)? The guy laughing makes my hair stand up on end, but I'm pretty sure it's an attention-seeker (albeit a disturbed one), rather than someone who actually knows something about the case. Do you think Mr112Dirtbag and 112Dirtbag are the same person, or is the former a copy-cat?
    He needs to be checked out, even if people write him off as a loon. He's probably only seeking attention, but it is odd that he has a xcountry ski pass from the same area and time frame of Maura's disappearence. LE should show Bretton Woods management that video to see if that pass looks like something they used in 2004. Since he lives in the Amherst area, he could have been traveling the same route as Maura on the way up to NH.

    Some people speculate it is a guy, who has been posting on Topix for years on Maura's case. He lives in the Amherst area. I think they have it right--I think it is him. He seems fixated on weird angles and far-fetched theories of cases such as Maura's and the case of a Cape Cod boy who was found dead after getting lost. He seems nutty to me, but worth checking out to be sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pittsburghgirl View Post
    Some of the people on the Topix threads about Maura have made me very glad that WS has a strong set of mods who don't think that anything goes.

    Absolutely! I agree! That forum is awful. You have to weed through hundreds of nonsense posts to get to anything worth reading. Too much bashing and head cracking going on over there and some the theories are outlandish and downright ridiculous!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by McSpy View Post
    Some people speculate it is a guy, who has been posting on Topix for years on Maura's case. He lives in the Amherst area. I think they have it right--I think it is him. He seems fixated on weird angles and far-fetched theories of cases such as Maura's and the case of a Cape Cod boy who was found dead after getting lost. He seems nutty to me, but worth checking out to be sure.
    Allegedly he was interviewed by an Amherst PI hired by the Murrays and the PI asked if he murdered Maura. He claims he was harassed by LE after that and his life took a turn for the worse. From what I've read he (if it's the same person) has never said anything bad about Maura or her family.

    I think he's pointing the finger at a couple of posters over at Topix who post on multiple threads and who may be the same person(s) who consistently say (paraphrasing) that Maura Murray was irresponsible and inadvertently caused her own death. Those posters also say that Patric's parents were negligent and that Brianna Maitland and Louise Chaput had dubious backgrounds that resulted in their disappearance and murder respectively.

    "Beagle", the poster may have some weird ideas and disgraceful delivery methods, but I think he's pointing the finger at certain posters who he believes are responsible for an LE cover-up or unnecessary personal harassment, or both. Possibly he has a beef with one of more people over at Topix who purport to know more about the investigation than they really do. JMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unscripted View Post
    Allegedly he was interviewed by an Amherst PI hired by the Murrays and the PI asked if he murdered Maura. He claims he was harassed by LE after that and his life took a turn for the worse. From what I've read he (if it's the same person) has never said anything bad about Maura or her family.

    I think he's pointing the finger at a couple of posters over at Topix who post on multiple threads and who may be the same person(s) who consistently say (paraphrasing) that Maura Murray was irresponsible and inadvertently caused her own death. Those posters also say that Patric's parents were negligent and that Brianna Maitland and Louise Chaput had dubious backgrounds that resulted in their disappearance and murder respectively.

    "Beagle", the poster may have some weird ideas and disgraceful delivery methods, but I think he's pointing the finger at certain posters who he believes are responsible for an LE cover-up or unnecessary personal harassment, or both. Possibly he has a beef with one of more people over at Topix who purport to know more about the investigation than they really do. JMO.
    So, you think these videos were meant for the Topix posters? Was he trying to say that the Topix posters are full of it, because he really knows what happened? In other words, was he trying to yank their chains?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unscripted View Post
    Allegedly he was interviewed by an Amherst PI hired by the Murrays and the PI asked if he murdered Maura. He claims he was harassed by LE after that and his life took a turn for the worse. From what I've read he (if it's the same person) has never said anything bad about Maura or her family.

    I think he's pointing the finger at a couple of posters over at Topix who post on multiple threads and who may be the same person(s) who consistently say (paraphrasing) that Maura Murray was irresponsible and inadvertently caused her own death. Those posters also say that Patric's parents were negligent and that Brianna Maitland and Louise Chaput had dubious backgrounds that resulted in their disappearance and murder respectively.

    "Beagle", the poster may have some weird ideas and disgraceful delivery methods, but I think he's pointing the finger at certain posters who he believes are responsible for an LE cover-up or unnecessary personal harassment, or both. Possibly he has a beef with one of more people over at Topix who purport to know more about the investigation than they really do. JMO.
    BBM

    Do you know why he was questioned by the PI and LE in the first place? He must have got their attention in some way.

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  17. #834
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unscripted View Post
    I agree. She got in a car with someone and that person or persons were the last people to see her alive and most likely killed her. Given the tight time frame they must have spotted her at a rest stop, connivence store or gas bar in Wells River or Woodsville and followed her. No other scenario makes sense.
    I'm not so sure someone spotted her on her travels. I think someone happened along. It was a crime of opportunity. IMO

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    My theory is her father was angrier about the first car accident than he lets on in the interview. This probably aggravated Maura's already fragile emotional state (perhaps depression).

    She was not in a good frame of mind, decided to take time off and drive to where she is comfortable (Vermont or the White Mountains). She emails her professor that she had a death in the family and needs to be gone a week, which was untrue.

    She drives North, buys some alcohol, and drinks while she drives. It turns night. She is driving along a dark New Hampshire road and is impaired. She hits a very sharp left turn and reacts too slowly, wrecking the car in a snowbank.

    This is her second car wreck in days. Now she is shattered. Plus, she is intoxicated. She has no idea what to do. She can't call the authorities because she would be arrested for a DUI. She can't call her father because he is too far away. Moreover, there is no cell service. She stands outside the car trying to make sense of her situation.

    The bus driver stops, asks her if she needs help. She declines (because she doesn't want him to see she's been drinking),and says she called AAA and they are on their way. The bus driver suspects this is a lie because there is no cell service.

    What happens next is more of a mystery. I suspect she panicked, thinking when the driver got home he would call the police. She didn't want the cops to find her inebriated by her disabled vehicle, so she takes off on foot, even though she has nowhere to go.

    She treks into the woods to hide, her head not straight because of her emotional troubles and her intoxication. Only problem is it is a very cold night in New Hampshire and the woods are thick. She either got lost or simply remained in one spot too long and died of exposure. I know that search teams have combed the woods, but we are talking about a huge area of thick woods. In cases past, it's not uncommon for searchers repeatedly to miss a body 10 yards away under such conditions. Afterwards, her remains likely were eaten by animals, further hampering any attempt at location.

    Likely, we'll never know for sure what happened to that poor girl. Maybe one day a hiker in the woods will come across some evidence that will put everything in a better perspective.

    WRT the phone call...
    By that time she would have been exposed to the elements for an entire night, and it's likely she was suffering from hypothermia. She had spent hours wandering deep enough into an area that finally had cell service. When she makes the desperate call, all she gets is his voice mail. In her condition, it's doubtful she could even speak at that point. If that was her message (which unfortunately cannot be proven), I think she died shortly thereafter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldblum View Post
    She drives North, buys some alcohol, and drinks while she drives. It turns night. She is driving along a dark New Hampshire road and is impaired. She hits a very sharp left turn and reacts too slowly, wrecking the car in a snowbank. This is her second car wreck in days. Now she is shattered. Plus, she is intoxicated. She has no idea what to do. She can't call the authorities because she would be arrested for a DUI. She can't call her father because he is too far away. Moreover, there is no cell service. She stands outside the car trying to make sense of her situation.
    The bus driver stops, asks her if she needs help. She declines (because she doesn't want him to see she's been drinking) She treks into the woods to hide, her head not straight because of her emotional troubles and her intoxication. Only problem is it is a very cold night in New Hampshire and the woods are thick. She either got lost or simply remained in one spot too long and died of exposure. I know that search teams have combed the woods, but we are talking about a huge area of thick woods. In cases past, it's not uncommon for searchers repeatedly to miss a body 10 yards away under such conditions. Afterwards, her remains likely were eaten by animals, further hampering any attempt at location.
    Again I think we have to go back to what little evidence we have. The search dogs tracked her scent down the road, not into the woods. The school bus driver initially reported she was shaken up yet didn't seem intoxicated. If she was running and working up a bit of a sweat, presumably the SAR dogs would have been able to keep tracking her scent. It was around zero that night (unseasonably warm) yet with a fair amount of crusty snow around. I just think what little clues exist point to her being picked up by a car. Since nobody has come forward, I am inclined to believe it ended in foul play.

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    Quote Originally Posted by McSpy View Post
    Do you know why he was questioned by the PI and LE in the first place? He must have got their attention in some way.
    He (who truly know who's who?) posted somewhere that he found it insulting to be asked forthright by a MA PI if he murdered MM. It may have been on Topix Franconia or Topix Amherst. Topix Franconia MM thread was taken down today, 12,000 posts evaporated, so somebody might be onto something. It doesn't seem to be about the foul-mouthed insults that appear to run rampant there, but rather about his videos and the subsequent posts that attempted to interpret his videos and point fingers at other active posters.

    There are several posters on Topix who purport to be ex LE or para LE who "know everything" and get into heated, unsavoury debates with everyone. That happened here a few years ago on this MM thread and that poster was, thankfully, subsequently banned.

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    That video just out and out gives me the creeps. Wouldnt be the first time a psycho bragged about his crime and taunted police and the public. I have long that she met with foul play, but have recently thought she succombed to the elements (her phone call brought to mind hypothermia and getting delerious), however, these videos make me go back to my original thinking. The video (just a still shot of a drawing really) called "black eye" is weird too. Did Maura have a black eye, did she injure her eye in the accident?


    RIP McStays

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  27. #839
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unscripted View Post
    He (who truly know who's who?) posted somewhere that he found it insulting to be asked forthright by a MA PI if he murdered MM. It may have been on Topix Franconia or Topix Amherst. Topix Franconia MM thread was taken down today, 12,000 posts evaporated, so somebody might be onto something. It doesn't seem to be about the foul-mouthed insults that appear to run rampant there, but rather about his videos and the subsequent posts that attempted to interpret his videos and point fingers at other active posters.

    There are several posters on Topix who purport to be ex LE or para LE who "know everything" and get into heated, unsavoury debates with everyone. That happened here a few years ago on this MM thread and that poster was, thankfully, subsequently banned.
    BBM

    Wow! I think possibly LE wanted them. As you well know, Topix is very loose, so something is up if the whole forum was pulled. Are you talking about WTF Bill on Topix as the trouble maker? He stuck out to me, because he tends to bash whenever he gets a chance to post. I was reading there a day or so ago, because of the other Topix poster (Beagle), who was allegedly responsible for the disturbing youtube videos. One thing I noticed, Beagle stopped posting after the video was noticed by the Renner followers and the media. WTF Bill was still posting. JMO

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    Quote Originally Posted by the seeker View Post
    That video just out and out gives me the creeps. Wouldnt be the first time a psycho bragged about his crime and taunted police and the public. I have long that she met with foul play, but have recently thought she succombed to the elements (her phone call brought to mind hypothermia and getting delerious), however, these videos make me go back to my original thinking. The video (just a still shot of a drawing really) called "black eye" is weird too. Did Maura have a black eye, did she injure her eye in the accident?
    I think that the black eye was an amateur's animation attempt at making the eye wink. In the "112dirtbag's" video called, "Happy Anniversary," he winks at the end too (He deleted the video and his youtube channel soon after he posted it.). I think these videos are by the same person.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldblum View Post
    My theory is her father was angrier about the first car accident than he lets on in the interview. This probably aggravated Maura's already fragile emotional state (perhaps depression).

    She was not in a good frame of mind, decided to take time off and drive to where she is comfortable (Vermont or the White Mountains). She emails her professor that she had a death in the family and needs to be gone a week, which was untrue.

    She drives North, buys some alcohol, and drinks while she drives. It turns night. She is driving along a dark New Hampshire road and is impaired. She hits a very sharp left turn and reacts too slowly, wrecking the car in a snowbank.

    This is her second car wreck in days. Now she is shattered. Plus, she is intoxicated. She has no idea what to do. She can't call the authorities because she would be arrested for a DUI. She can't call her father because he is too far away. Moreover, there is no cell service. She stands outside the car trying to make sense of her situation.

    The bus driver stops, asks her if she needs help. She declines (because she doesn't want him to see she's been drinking),and says she called AAA and they are on their way. The bus driver suspects this is a lie because there is no cell service.

    What happens next is more of a mystery. I suspect she panicked, thinking when the driver got home he would call the police. She didn't want the cops to find her inebriated by her disabled vehicle, so she takes off on foot, even though she has nowhere to go.

    She treks into the woods to hide, her head not straight because of her emotional troubles and her intoxication. Only problem is it is a very cold night in New Hampshire and the woods are thick. She either got lost or simply remained in one spot too long and died of exposure. I know that search teams have combed the woods, but we are talking about a huge area of thick woods. In cases past, it's not uncommon for searchers repeatedly to miss a body 10 yards away under such conditions. Afterwards, her remains likely were eaten by animals, further hampering any attempt at location.

    Likely, we'll never know for sure what happened to that poor girl. Maybe one day a hiker in the woods will come across some evidence that will put everything in a better perspective.

    WRT the phone call...
    By that time she would have been exposed to the elements for an entire night, and it's likely she was suffering from hypothermia. She had spent hours wandering deep enough into an area that finally had cell service. When she makes the desperate call, all she gets is his voice mail. In her condition, it's doubtful she could even speak at that point. If that was her message (which unfortunately cannot be proven), I think she died shortly thereafter.
    Possible. Although, I don't think she was intoxicated enough to have been driving drunk, but perhaps, she wasn't sure, because she knew she was drinking. I do think she wasn't looking forward in telling her dad that she was in NH and her car was wrecked, especially after wrecking his car a few nights prior. There is no doubt, she was in a dilemma. I do think she walked away from the accident, but how far she ran off is a mystery. I have 3 theories: she succumbed to the elements, accepted a ride from a bad person or she was hit by a vehicle which threw her into the woods. My last theory is probably less likely, but possible. A fast moving vehicle or a truck may have thought they hit an animal or they just plain drove on to avoid responsibility.

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  32. #842
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    Odd postings on MM Topix Franconia

    Quote Originally Posted by McSpy View Post
    Wow! I think possibly LE wanted them. As you well know, Topix is very loose, so something is up if the whole forum was pulled. Are you talking about WTF Bill on Topix as the trouble maker? He stuck out to me, because he tends to bash whenever he gets a chance to post. I was reading there a day or so ago, because of the other Topix poster (Beagle), who was allegedly responsible for the disturbing youtube videos. One thing I noticed, Beagle stopped posting after the video was noticed by the Renner followers and the media. WTF Bill was still posting. JMO
    I think LE could obtain the entire MM Topix thread without taking all 12,000 posts down and if there were a few objectionable threads request that they be individually deleted. Perhaps it was taken down so that LE couldn't put two and two together about a few posters (not "Beagle") who might have been the same person and who purported to be EMS/formerLE/paralegal? Those same poster(s) (correct McSpy) also wrote that they had been told secondhand about how and where Patric Mc and Louise Chaput's bodies were found by fellow searchers. One certain and distinct typo was made by those posters and I think "mr112dirtbag" (who some believe to be "Beagle") might have noticed that as well as. The YouTube poster "mr112dirtbag" also went on to infer that some of the above Topix posters had the same IP address.

    For days posters on Topix Franconia discussed how FM "probably" killed his daughter as some sort of family honor killing and burned her remains in an incinerator at his place of employment in Bridgeport, CT. That sort of nonsense was tolerated and endorsed by forum "moderators". If, however, posters tried to discuss where a perpetrator might have been watching for MM at, say, a Woodsville gas station when she passed by, that conversation got nipped in the bid by the moderator and the "EMS/LE/paralegal" posse.

    The same poster who claimed he was told about where bodies were found also stated he could bring down the entire Topix thread if he wanted to at any given time. Now that "mr112dirtbag" is pointing the finger at that poster and his possible aliases the old thread has evaporated.

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  34. #843
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    After looking at the new crop of videos uploaded (sperm swimming for an egg -- "1 in 4", a couple more black eye cartoon figures, "bodies of water") and the links and pasted in articles (e.g., for "1 in 4" there's a link to "going to the chapel"), I'm pretty sure that mr112dirtbag is a copy-cat and that 112dirtbag is a different person. The two sets are just so different, both in style and in the poster's MO (112dirtbag removed very quickly, mr112dirtbag seems to be accelerating his posts, for example). In the second set, it's strongly implied that the poster has some information that MM was heading up to meet someone, perhaps was promiscuous, had been in some sort of altercation... whereas in the first, the poster implies some involvement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skigirl View Post
    After looking at the new crop of videos uploaded (sperm swimming for an egg -- "1 in 4", a couple more black eye cartoon figures, "bodies of water") and the links and pasted in articles (e.g., for "1 in 4" there's a link to "going to the chapel"), I'm pretty sure that mr112dirtbag is a copy-cat and that 112dirtbag is a different person. The two sets are just so different, both in style and in the poster's MO (112dirtbag removed very quickly, mr112dirtbag seems to be accelerating his posts, for example). In the second set, it's strongly implied that the poster has some information that MM was heading up to meet someone, perhaps was promiscuous, had been in some sort of altercation... whereas in the first, the poster implies some involvement.
    "Beagle" was always coming up with bizarre theories about the disappearance, including the abduction for the purposes of harvesting body parts including reproductive organs. I would have agreed with you about the copy cat theory except there are new videos up and the person looks the same as the one in the "anniversary" video. To me, the YouTube channel is just a continuation of his "creative" posts on Topix.

    IMO, the only interesting he's said on YouTube is that he feels that LE and PIs in both the MM and PMc are letting old personal vendettas stand in the way of finding the truth and that some of those people are taking their personal fight to the pages of Topix Franconia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unscripted View Post
    Again I think we have to go back to what little evidence we have. The search dogs tracked her scent down the road, not into the woods. The school bus driver initially reported she was shaken up yet didn't seem intoxicated. If she was running and working up a bit of a sweat, presumably the SAR dogs would have been able to keep tracking her scent. It was around zero that night (unseasonably warm) yet with a fair amount of crusty snow around. I just think what little clues exist point to her being picked up by a car. Since nobody has come forward, I am inclined to believe it ended in foul play.
    Also, they did search my air a few days later (no sure exactly when) but IIRC it had not snowed since she went missing, so should have seen tracks in snow or disturbance in snow from the air.

    Really wish James in his book research would have checked into if her emergency car kit had a flashlight, and if it did, was missing since that would tell me she might have taken it to run at night - that's so important as it would greatly increase where she might have wound up.

    Also, if James could have found out if she ever liked to run on roads versus mostly/only on a track, and if she ran at night on roads.
    (I believe she did run marathons, but those are during the day and I imagine over decent or cleaned roads.)

    Also, no one has ever tried to reenact running from where her car crashed on a similar night.

    Also, would be interesting if James got her model Saturn and trying reenacting her route with the car running on 3-cylinders.... what kind of smoke would it make, gas mileage, get stopped by LE, etc., etc.... Better yet, have a young woman make the drive and listen in to CB radio traffic - would truckers call attention to a young lady driving a crippled car?
    Speaking of mysteries - billions of people past/present, so what are the odds of ever getting to be on the inside and looking out from one... .

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldSteve View Post
    Also, they did search my air a few days later (no sure exactly when) but IIRC it had not snowed since she went missing, so should have seen tracks in snow or disturbance in snow from the air.

    Really wish James in his book research would have checked into if her emergency car kit had a flashlight, and if it did, was missing since that would tell me she might have taken it to run at night - that's so important as it would greatly increase where she might have wound up.

    Also, if James could have found out if she ever liked to run on roads versus mostly/only on a track, and if she ran at night on roads.
    (I believe she did run marathons, but those are during the day and I imagine over decent or cleaned roads.)

    Also, no one has ever tried to reenact running from where her car crashed on a similar night.

    Also, would be interesting if James got her model Saturn and trying reenacting her route with the car running on 3-cylinders.... what kind of smoke would it make, gas mileage, get stopped by LE, etc., etc.... Better yet, have a young woman make the drive and listen in to CB radio traffic - would truckers call attention to a young lady driving a crippled car?
    BBM

    IIRC, one of Maura's sisters walked the same road at night to get a feel of what it was like for Maura. I don't know how far she walked, but IIRC, she did mention how dark and scary a run down that road would have been for Maura.
    I'll see if I can find a link on this.

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  40. #847
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    Quote Originally Posted by McSpy View Post
    IIRC, one of Maura's sisters walked the same road at night to get a feel of what it was like for Maura. I don't know how far she walked, but IIRC, she did mention how dark and scary a run down that road would have been for Maura. I'll see if I can find a link on this.
    I believe it's from the articles by Maribeth Conway:

    http://www.whitmanhansonexpress.com/...he-search.html

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    oldsteve, this site has many of the old news articles in one place. The article which mentions Maura's sister's walk down the dark road was from this article:

    MAURA IS MISSING PART III: The Search*
    Special Reports - Maura Murray is Missing*
    Written by Maribeth Conway*
    Wed, Jul 04, 2007 01:00*


    "I wanted to see it as Maura had seen it -- after dark. I got out of the truck and walked up and down the road, looking at different angles and perspectives. There was a constant thought in my mind as I did this -- if I was Maura what would I have been thinking," Julie said in a recent email.*

    "It was very cold, dark and quiet; I felt stunned. I will never forget that eerie feeling," she wrote.*


    http://s10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/ar/t13207.htm

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  43. #849
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unscripted View Post
    I believe it's from the articles by Maribeth Conway:

    http://www.whitmanhansonexpress.com/...he-search.html
    Lol! You beat me by 3 minutes!

  44. #850
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldSteve View Post
    Also, they did search my air a few days later (no sure exactly when) but IIRC it had not snowed since she went missing, so should have seen tracks in snow or disturbance in snow from the air.

    Really wish James in his book research would have checked into if her emergency car kit had a flashlight, and if it did, was missing since that would tell me she might have taken it to run at night - that's so important as it would greatly increase where she might have wound up.

    Also, if James could have found out if she ever liked to run on roads versus mostly/only on a track, and if she ran at night on roads.
    (I believe she did run marathons, but those are during the day and I imagine over decent or cleaned roads.)

    Also, no one has ever tried to reenact running from where her car crashed on a similar night.

    Also, would be interesting if James got her model Saturn and trying reenacting her route with the car running on 3-cylinders.... what kind of smoke would it make, gas mileage, get stopped by LE, etc., etc.... Better yet, have a young woman make the drive and listen in to CB radio traffic - would truckers call attention to a young lady driving a crippled car?
    BBM

    Not all cars running on 3-cylinders have smokey exhaust. It depends on the underlying cause of the bad cylinder. If it was completely dead, then it was probably not smokey. If it had oil fouling up the spark plugs as a cause (no spark for firing up) then it would be smokey. All in all, smoke in the exhaust depends on the cause. If she had very smokey exhaust, maybe people would have noticed her when she stopped at the ATM, liquor store and gas station. I tend to look when I see it, because I hate air pollution.

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