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Thread: IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #22

  1. #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantomthought View Post
    HT not liking CR made me think that maybe that is the reason HT or LS other girl friends did not go with her that night.Either LS knew she was going to meet up with CR and did not want them to know or they did know and wanted no part of it.The only reason I say that is it seams very strange that CR and JR lived right next door to each other and were friends yet during the whole school year HT,LS never met him.Then they meet at the races and all of a sudden LS and CR are both at JR's at the same time which apparently has not happen during the whole school year.
    IDK, perhaps CR is what my daughter would call a "player" ... and HT felt LS already had a "non-player" in JW? What I do know is that it's possible, though not always pleasant, to have friends from groups that don't get along. My daughter does this, and one group can be less than warm and fuzzy toward the other. She's four years younger than LS and HT, though, so I'd expect less drama from their age group. Still ...

    This might matter, IMO, if HT is subtly taking sides regarding the investigation, since how ones feels can influence what one says and does, even when trying to be objective.

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  3. #527
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloom54 View Post
    perhaps... but I don't think that's a "given"... MOO
    Maybe it's not a given, but ...

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/n...,6774142.story

    The friend said Wolff received no phone calls or visitors in the hours after his fraternity brothers confronted Spierer and Rossman at Smallwood.
    http://www.lohud.com/article/20110722/NEWS02/107220376

    A couple weeks ago, police in Bloomington, Ind., searched the home that Wolff shared with former fraternity brothers.

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  5. #528
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    The statement about JWs frat buddies, or friends being the ones who confronted CR has been pretty much discounted IMO. We are pretty sure ZO was the one who actually punched CR and ZO is most likely not Jewish and most likely not involved with JWs frat at all. JW living with his old frat members proves nothing, JW hasn't been proven to have even seen LS that night, so it is not a given that this is frat related at all, IMO.

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  7. #529
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    Quote Originally Posted by sueC View Post
    Thanks I found it! I only asked about it because I was curious to see JR on video, not to link JR and AB. After watching it again, I couldn't pick him out, although there were several guys there with similar short hair and features.
    I thought maybe he was the short guy in the black v-neck t-shirt standing around near the back. A more attractive than ben stiller look, lol. And that is the most positive thing I can say about JR.

    Mods: ben stiller the actor and public figure is allowed, isn't it?

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  9. #530
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    JRNTT went down? Scuttlebutt from LSCD FB page...
    Where is Andrew Compton?

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  11. #531
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walker View Post
    ... BTW: AB's comment about LS's body being hidden in a cave could be a clue. Per one TG poster, the area has a huge numbers of caves, and "partiers" frequent the huge storm drains which run for miles underneath the city. The perps could have accessed the storm drain through a tunnel, open from construction(?), maybe arranged a car to pick them up in some other part of the city, and then proceeded to a cave. Could there be an access point near 5 North?
    Walker, I'm not sure what I think about the frat connection ... and can't really get my head around it right now. But I was intrigued by your mention of caves (though I'm claustrophobic they fascinate me). There appear to be a lot of closed/restricted caves in Monroe County; for example, Mayfield's Cave (closed) is less than 5 miles from Bloomington. I found a list of closed/restricted caves: http://www.indiana-caves.org/public_...st_listing.asp

    I don't know enough about caving (not the proper term, I'm sure) to know if it's even possible to access restricted/closed ones. My thought is that open ones would be too risky because of the traffic. Perhaps someone here who goes caving would be able to address this further. OTOH, perhaps it's something that LE and the search groups already thought of?

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  13. #532
    Quote Originally Posted by SUNchips View Post
    The statement about JWs frat buddies, or friends being the ones who confronted CR has been pretty much discounted IMO. We are pretty sure ZO was the one who actually punched CR and ZO is most likely not Jewish and most likely not involved with JWs frat at all. JW living with his old frat members proves nothing, JW hasn't been proven to have even seen LS that night, so it is not a given that this is frat related at all, IMO.
    Couldnt agree more.

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  15. #533
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnalyticalExaminer View Post
    I don't believe that's correct, though I imagine it continued there.
    The quotes around "party" was an allusion the the alleged drug use at JR's. Nonetheless my assumption could easily be wrong.

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  17. #534
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    Quote Originally Posted by indianagirl315 View Post
    2 points. . .

    1) JW's house was not the official frat house. There is no official frat house, there are multiple different houses, in which the guys live in. There is no designated frat house.

    2) This frat had no intention of getting back on campus. They did not want to.
    Their letters had already been taken over by a newly colonized fraternity under their letters. They are fine being off campus as far as I know.
    Point 2 may be a case of sour grapes because had they wanted to remain in the frat they would have been barred from doing so as no previous members were accepted.

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  19. #535
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hodge View Post
    JRNTT went down? Scuttlebutt from LSCD FB page...
    they get a little overdramatic on LSCD FB... the blog is back up.. sounds like she's having some issues and needs to do some upgrades...

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  21. #536
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloom54 View Post
    they get a little overdramatic on LSCD FB... the blog is back up.. sounds like she's having some issues and needs to do some upgrades...
    love their recipes.
    Where is Andrew Compton?

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  23. #537
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloom54 View Post
    they get a little overdramatic on LSCD FB... the blog is back up.. sounds like she's having some issues and needs to do some upgrades...
    Indeed. I don't even visit the LSCD page any more. I do drive-by's!

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  25. #538
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jupiter812 View Post
    Indeed. I don't even visit the LSCD page any more. I do drive-by's!
    me too.. I'm absolutely afraid to post there... i just don't want to be associated with that drama

    and, I don't cook... so the recipes aren't a draw!!

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  27. #539
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloom54 View Post
    me too.. I'm absolutely afraid to post there... i just don't want to be associated with that drama

    and, I don't cook... so the recipes aren't a draw!!
    LOL. You need the cyber equivalent of a sidearm to post. I'd probably do a hit and run.

    Recipes? Hmm...tempting but I'm a food snob.

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  29. #540
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    Quote Originally Posted by SUNchips View Post
    The statement about JWs frat buddies, or friends being the ones who confronted CR has been pretty much discounted IMO. We are pretty sure ZO was the one who actually punched CR and ZO is most likely not Jewish and most likely not involved with JWs frat at all.
    We don't know the personal background of ZO, and the frat is known to make exceptions.

    JW living with his old frat members proves nothing, JW hasn't been proven to have even seen LS that night, so it is not a given that this is frat related at all, IMO.
    Certainly, the reports do not necessarily point to the original "official" frat; my suggestion is more that after being banned the group had split into cliques. What if the split were something like this scenario:

    JW-ZO-AB-HT-BB-others vs. JR-CR-MB-DR-LS-others?

    A strong split with friction between the two groups might imply that members of JW's group are less likely to be culpable in LS's disappearance; since given the Smallwood altercation, they could not count on support or protection from JR or MB. Therefore, if JR or MB misrepresented the facts, they were only protecting themselves and/or CR.

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  31. #541
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walker View Post
    We don't know the personal background of ZO, and the frat is known to make exceptions.

    JW-ZO-AB-HT-BB-others vs. JR-CR-MB-DR-LS-others?

    A strong split with friction between the two groups might imply that members of JW's group are less likely to be culpable in LS's disappearance; since given the Smallwood altercation, they could not count on support or protection from JR or MB. Therefore, if JR or MB misrepresented the facts, they were only protecting themselves and/or CR.
    ZO, AB, and BB are all from Indianapolis. They went to high school together. BB apparently worked for ZO's dad's company this summer.

    My daughter went to IU and told me that it is highly unlikely that the ZO/AB group would hang out with the CR/MB/LS/DR group.

    The only connection I can come up with is that ZO might be a candy salesman.

    As far as JW goes, it looks as if he might have been on the edge of the JR/CR/etc. group. If he was spending most of his time with LS earlier in the school year, that would explain how he was on the edge of a group.

    The original report about a "friend of the boyfriend" punching CR was from a "witness." I think that "witness" was a friend of ZO's (AB? HT?) and the statement was made to mask the true reason for the fight. (anger at CR for letting LS talking loudly at the bar about what she had been taking that evening).

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  33. #542
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    Well, going by what folks on here have told me the past few days ZO/AB are besties, AB and JR are friends, and JR and CR are friends too so that would be one possible connection between the two groups.


    I do have to say I think there is more to the story than someone waiting for and then beating up CR because LS said something at a bar.

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  35. #543
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carmen101 View Post
    ZO, AB, and BB are all from Indianapolis. They went to high school together. BB apparently worked for ZO's dad's company this summer.

    My daughter went to IU and told me that it is highly unlikely that the ZO/AB group would hang out with the CR/MB/LS/DR group.

    The only connection I can come up with is that ZO might be a candy salesman.

    As far as JW goes, it looks as if he might have been on the edge of the JR/CR/etc. group. If he was spending most of his time with LS earlier in the school year, that would explain how he was on the edge of a group.

    The original report about a "friend of the boyfriend" punching CR was from a "witness." I think that "witness" was a friend of ZO's (AB? HT?) and the statement was made to mask the true reason for the fight. (anger at CR for letting LS talking loudly at the bar about what she had been taking that evening).
    Would JR and MB go to any great lengths to protect ZO, though? Disposing of a body of their friend, possibly fabricating a cover story?

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  37. #544
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabby66 View Post
    IMO Lauren is located in an area at least fairly familiar (if not very familiar) to one or more of the POIs. This could be as close as a nearby woods or lake, or as far away as MI (or somewhere along the way). Because I don't feel that this was premeditated, I think there was likely a LOT of fear involved. Therefore, I just don't think these boys would add to that fear by accepting more risk of possibly being seen. I think they'd wrap her up and get the heck outa there.

    that's been my thinking for a while now, panic set in and retreat to familiarity was the blanket warm solution to a very cold feeling.

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  39. #545
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlainJaneDoe View Post
    We are allegedly dealing with Xanax, not just alcohol. This is very different from alcohol alone, even when Xanax is taken alone. I, and I think Elmomom, have posted a bunch about it. I will dig them up for you if you like.
    In an earlier thread, there was brief discussion of the possibility that LS and perhaps even CR were experiencing a new substance that night. I profferred the dissociative anesthetic ketamine (v popular on the jam band scene) as a potential culprit that could explain CR's memory loss/crashing into bed (a "k-hole" perhaps) as well as LS's observed inability to walk or function without someone helping her along.

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  41. #546
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darcyline View Post
    I would really like to ask JR about her feet. In fact, if I had one question to ask him it may even be that (well, ok, are you telling the truth may be first, but I am imagining he would say yes to that no matter what).
    Very interesting, perhaps even the thin edge of the wedge to getting JR to open up a bit. Just ask him to answer that one simple question, re: the state of LS's feet/footwear while she was in his presence. "was she wearing shoes?" most people will immediately notice if someone coming in from the outside that time of night isn't and take note of it, i would think.

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  43. #547
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    If JR had provided her with footwear, it seems as though that would have been included in the "missing" info...or at least as items to be looked out for, by searchers. And if he truly watched her walk away, he should have noticed she was barefoot, IMO...

    I think with a group of people this age, familiararity would play a big role as to where they might put her, if she died in the company; either someplace close to their home, or more likely someplace local that they know well. Maybe that is why there was a tip about that one specific lake early on.
    Just my opinion, of course.

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  45. #548
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    Quote Originally Posted by luna80 View Post
    If indeed CS's use of the word "friend" was pointed at one of the POI's; maybe just maybe it's MB they're trying to crack. MB was quoted early on as saying "She was our friend too"

    I suspect MB knows quite a bit regarding what happened that night. He too, in addition to JW, had his wits about him that night.
    Agreed, MB, for whatever reason, more recently has struck me as a potentially more significant POI than what much of the discussion seemed to assume early on (at least I dismissed him as less significant than CR/JR at first).

    What led me there was the statement/claim/observation made by someone (MB or HT?) that LS, before departing for JR's, asked MB if he wanted to party with her.
    Given that LS had multiple options at that point, what was it about MB that (allegedly/ostensibly) made her first ask him to party before resorting to JR or even her bf JW or someone back at Smallwood.

    I theorized that MB might've been the actual supplier of all this party fun. But there's absolutely nothing to indicate that in any known statements/facts.

    The observation that it's always the quiets ones you need to look out for might apply in MB's case.

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  47. #549
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnalyticalExaminer View Post
    I am not a "fan" of anyone other than the S family.

    I'm not sure it need be pointed out that there is all sorts of activity on the internet from which the active party has nothing to "gain." Your post above is consistent with such activity in my opinion. It contains nothing to substantiate the supposed sighting, which you are welcome to supply at any time.

    I should add that my suspicions of HT's knowledge have grown slightly with some recent posts on this site. But I think the best lead on these matters is the S family. And I read their recent statements to point at JR first, and HT perhaps not at all.
    Do you have any specific locations or areas that you think JR might have hidden the body that you would care to help me search this weekend? (other than the landfill)

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  49. #550
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantomthought View Post
    The only reason I say that is it seams very strange that CR and JR lived right next door to each other and were friends yet during the whole school year HT,LS never met him.Then they meet at the races and all of a sudden LS and CR are both at JR's at the same time which apparently has not happen during the whole school year.

    This kinda dovetails with my egregiously unsupported theory that MB/CR were the providers/connection to obtain whatever "party" substances this group enjoyed.

    It makes some sense in that regard that JR would not out his supplier to any and everyone he hung out with--even (especially?) when his supplier was his neighbor.

    e.g.,
    JR got his gear from MB/CR and shared it with LS/HT et al (perhaps sometimes sold it to them at cost) but never told them about CR/MB being his source. CR (and maybe MB?) meet LS and the others at the Indy weekend and LS quickly sorts that this/these is/are the guys JR is getting his gear from.
    Hence when they get back to Bloomington, LS is eager to party with CR and/or MB.

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