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Thread: IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #22

  1. #126
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    Almost every person who is missing probably had someone commit the "perfect crime"...whether they are smart, stupid, or just lucky. I don't think it is as hard to get rid of a body where it won't be found as we would like to think. Sometimes they are eventually found, and sometimes, they never are. Sometimes they are found years later, in an area that was already searched, i.e. Molly Bish. They just don't take up that much space...
    Just my opinion, of course.

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  3. #127
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by indianagirl315 View Post
    I dont really have anything new to add to this thread, but I would just like to say hello as I have been lurking since LS went missing. I am familiar with this group of people (Do not want to disclose how I am aquainted as I'm sure these people are reading), but I do agree with those who say HT is hiding something. Her behavior seems quite odd in the way she released information to the media initially and now she has silenced herself.

    I am not surprised by the supposed drug use of these people either. . . it is extremely common for smallwood people, especially this group. Xanax is everywhere among students at IU.

    I am familiar with Bloomington as I attend school at IU (I am going to be a junior this year) so if you have any questions please ask me.

    I just want LS to be found.
    A big welcome and glad your here.I do have one question,what are other students or the towns people saying they think happened to Lauren? Thanks

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  5. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inspector Gidget View Post
    A big welcome and glad your here.I do have one question,what are other students or the towns people saying they think happened to Lauren? Thanks
    I hope Indiana girl posts a reply.

    FWIW I was talking to a small group of locals who stay informed. They all believe she ODed and the boy(s) hid her. A veteran big city cop who is following the case says: It's an extremely difficult case. Nothing is cut and dry.

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  7. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleAMom View Post
    I get what people are saying about how it's usually a boyfriend/family member (someone passionately involved with another) that usually did it. But I don't see JW as the bad guy.

    Usually there are tendencies all along for the person to be a possessive a-hole and these are hard to hide, because people comment on their temper, possessiveness, etc. But friends of LS and JW don't paint this picture AT ALL. In fact, JW doesn't seem overly possessive when it comes to LS. He seems to be relaxed and be okay with her having a big social circle and letting her do her own thing. This is kinda rare but does exist - my husband is this sort of person.

    Also, when something "big" like this happens it makes a person nervous and jittery and unable to think straight. I think the first impulse/instinct of a friend trying to cover something up would be to put as much distance as possible .
    I mostly agree. Others have posted that all missing persons would've had someone commit a 'perfect' crime. True. Good points. The only thing I disagree with is that I thought it was 'reported' that JW was possessive, etc type of boyfriend. It's easy to be at that age. Does anyone recall this?

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  9. #130
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    OD'd

    Quote Originally Posted by Jupiter812 View Post
    I hope Indiana girl posts a reply.

    FWIW I was talking to a small group of locals who stay informed. They all believe she ODed and the boy(s) hid her. A veteran big city cop who is following the case says: It's an extremely difficult case. Nothing is cut and dry.
    I'm glad someone finally stated that. I suspect that is the case. Everyone around her paniced and did something stupid with her body. Now they are so afraid of being charged with murder or arrested for the drugs that they won't speak up and the longer it goes the harder it is to tell the truth.

    I think eventually someone will talk if, that is the case. These are college kids not roughnecks running the streets. Someone will have an attack of conscience and speak out. It might be after college or years later but I believe someone will. jmo
    A parole review date is set for July 21, 2012 for Fred Howard Coffey.

    Coffey was convicted of the murder of 10 yr old Amanda Marie Ray, NC. He admitted to molesting 300 children.

    Please write a letter on behalf of Amanda.

    Suspect in the murders of:
    5 yr old Neely Smith, NC
    14 yr old Kathy Lynn Beatty, MD
    8 yr old Travis Shane King, VA

    Possibly connected to the disappearances of:
    14 Yr old Tracy Anne King, PA
    11 yr old Sheila and 13 yr old Katherine Lyons, MD
    15 yr old Carolyn Majane, NJ



    Write to:
    Chairman Charles L. Mann Sr.
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    RE: Fred Howard Coffey, DOC# 0081135
    or send an email to parole@doc.state.nc.us
    http://justice4amanda.tripod.com/

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  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melvin View Post
    I mostly agree. Others have posted that all missing persons would've had someone commit a 'perfect' crime. True. Good points. The only thing I disagree with is that I thought it was 'reported' that JW was possessive, etc type of boyfriend. It's easy to be at that age. Does anyone recall this?

    I have heard rumors of that, but it was always "sources on the internet" and NOT family, friends, or any other hard evidence. I remember a lot of the suspicion about him came from body language and the fact that they likely may have been having some relationship issues.

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  13. #132
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    I can't help but feel that the likelihood of this case is she never will be found. But that doesn't mean their won't be a prosecution.

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  15. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rallihanna View Post
    I can't help but feel that the likelihood of this case is she never will be found. But that doesn't mean their won't be a prosecution.
    If she is not found, and no one confesses, I don't think anyone will be charged...JMO
    Just my opinion, of course.

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  17. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by cluciano63 View Post
    If she is not found, and no one confesses, I don't think anyone will be charged...JMO
    Nope-not unless they have insane evidence of some sort that they have kept hidden like blood stains all over one of the apartments or some major video evidence. I don't think they do so that leaves confession if she is not found Maybe one of them will talk to a friend who will turn them in?

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  19. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darcyline View Post
    I am not entirely sure that they would have to be geniuses or pull off the perfect crime to get away with it like people are saying. If one of them put her in the dumpster while freaking out-they got away with it so far. No cameras capture the area of town where she was last seen or the dumpsters over there. We wouldn't see if one of them took a car anywhere. There are stories all over the place of messed up people of not high IQs somehow managing to get away with murder. Hell, there are cases where people are caught and juries let them off because there is basically not a video of the crime happening.
    It doesn't have to be perfect-finding a body can be like finding a needle in a haystack and a lot of times a body isn't found until some random hunter stumbles over it a decade later or something. See how many unsolved cases we have-I promise you they were not all committed by genius criminal masterminds who can pull off perfect crimes. It really feels arbitrary to me who gets away with murder or a crime and who doesn't. Like a matter of luck rather than a result of being a genius mastermind.
    even throwing a body in a dumpster has its risks of 1. being seen by someone else and 2. forensic evidence on the body and the perp

    had LE done the basics and checked dumpsters, abandoned buildings, storm drains and the like from the outset we would not be having this conversation.

    instead LE focused on the students (and I mean more than just some basic questioning) because they assumed or did not want to believe this was done by a stranger. so of course the students backed off.

    I would hope they would have checked the dumpsters any way in case there were boiy fluids. even with that some degrade with time so all that grandstanding got them nowhere.

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    Throwing bodies in a dumpster definitely has a lot of risks, but people still do it and somehow get away with it. It isn't impossible or unfathomable to me that something like that happened-literally, someone got lucky and not necessarily with the work of a perfect criminal mastermind plot. Sometimes, LE just cannot confirm the location of a body. It sucks, but it happens.

    If I were to criticize them for something it would be not being more aggressive about the dumpsters and landfills. I definitely agree that that left an unfortunate gap in the investigation. At this moment, I am not feeling like they were wrong to suspect and try to clear the pack of men that surrounded her the entire night, however.

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  23. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darcyline View Post
    Throwing bodies in a dumpster definitely has a lot of risks, but people still do it and somehow get away with it. It isn't impossible or unfathomable to me that something like that happened-literally, someone got lucky and not necessarily with the work of a perfect criminal mastermind plot. Sometimes, LE just cannot confirm the location of a body. It sucks, but it happens.

    If I were to criticize them for something it would be not being more aggressive about the dumpsters and landfills. I definitely agree that that left an unfortunate gap in the investigation. At this moment, I am not feeling like they were wrong to suspect and try to clear the pack of men that surrounded her the entire night, however.
    LE really does not try to clear anyone. they assumed the boys were involved and assumed one would crack early on. I guess they were wrong on both asumptions much to the dismay of her family.

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  25. #138
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    I don't know if I dreamt this last night or read it upthread but it matches the very first rumor I heard in week one, which is that "they threw her out" meaning from 5 North. If this is true it would explain JR's lie and it would point more to abduction by friend or foe.

    This brings me to the 3:38 a.m. carrier, who may or may not have been AB. If it was I wonder if the DD was at AB and ZO apartment when he returned with LS.

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  27. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jupiter812 View Post
    I don't know if I dreamt this last night or read it upthread but it matches the very first rumor I heard in week one, which is that "they threw her out" meaning from 5 North. If this is true it would explain JR's lie and it would point more to abduction by friend or foe.

    This brings me to the 3:38 a.m. carrier, who may or may not have been AB. If it was I wonder if the DD was at AB and ZO apartment when he returned with LS.
    I've always questioned JR's 4:30 a.m. last sighting. And I've wondered why it's been so patently accepted (?) as The Truth both here, on other sites, and by LE (or are they just playing along?).

    For me, the last confirmed sighting of LS, if LE is being honest and straight-up, is at 2:51 on the video as she exits the alley. Anything after that is fair game and open for discussion.

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  29. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by plaidmom View Post
    I've always questioned JR's 4:30 a.m. last sighting. And I've wondered why it's been so patently accepted (?) as The Truth both here, on other sites, and by LE (or are they just playing along?).

    For me, the last confirmed sighting of LS, if LE is being honest and straight-up, is at 2:51 on the video as she exits the alley. Anything after that is fair game and open for discussion.
    Actually I think LE has pretty much gone with the 2:51 time as the last official sighting...anything else has been phrased, as far as I know, as according to, or per a witness (JR), etc...I don't know if they can disprove the later alleged sighting though.
    Just my opinion, of course.

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  31. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by plaidmom View Post
    I've always questioned JR's 4:30 a.m. last sighting. And I've wondered why it's been so patently accepted (?) as The Truth both here, on other sites, and by LE (or are they just playing along?).

    For me, the last confirmed sighting of LS, if LE is being honest and straight-up, is at 2:51 on the video as she exits the alley. Anything after that is fair game and open for discussion.
    On the map the 4:30 time is labeled as "verbal." The problem as I see it is this time reference became part of the vernacular, if you will, of this case.

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  33. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by cluciano63 View Post
    Almost every person who is missing probably had someone commit the "perfect crime"...whether they are smart, stupid, or just lucky. I don't think it is as hard to get rid of a body where it won't be found as we would like to think. Sometimes they are eventually found, and sometimes, they never are. Sometimes they are found years later, in an area that was already searched, i.e. Molly Bish. They just don't take up that much space...
    I agree with what you are saying. Sadly, even with all the advanced technology available to solve crimes in this day and age, without a body, witnesses, or much evidence to go on there is only so much LE can do. People can vanish without much of a trace left behind. So many of these cases are eerily similar because there just isn't much to go on. In some ways this case reminds me of the Paige Johnson case, which isn't looking good either. Someone knows something, but isn't willing to talk.

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  35. #143
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    I had high hopes a few weeks ago when the the Spierer's said they were "pleased" with how LE was handling the case. I realize this statement was mainly to quiet the possibility of a protest in front of of LE but for some reason I had the impression that there was progress or news. That may still be true. I hope this long stretch of silence does not portend the future.

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  37. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by webrocket View Post
    LE really does not try to clear anyone. they assumed the boys were involved and assumed one would crack early on. I guess they were wrong on both asumptions much to the dismay of her family.

    I guess my word choice was incorrect, but I do think LE would be stupid NOT to look at the pack of men (some near strangers) that surrounded her that night. I won't critique them for searching apartments, getting statements, etc. I don't think they completely rejected other options either. They seemed to be considering random abduction at various times (silver truck, interviewing random witnesses or people on the street, etc).

    I don't know-I just don't feel like they have been massively incompetent here. The family also seems extremely supportive of them-much more than other cases where family has literally broken from LE. The only thing that has seemed off to me about this whole thing is the slow or possibly incomplete or not even done searches of dumpsters and landfills.


    I have always doubted the 430 time, but doubting the 430 time makes me doubt JR. I personally cannot come up with a scenario that would lead JR to make lie after lie about that night with Lauren, except still remain completely innocent and ignorant of what happened to her that night. Even if he kicked her out, I cannot see him randomly lying in ways that could be easily proven incorrect.

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  39. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melvin View Post
    From the 5 North kids, MB is the only one we know to claim sobriety. I don't think he was involved. Also it's important to note that JW was most likely not intoxicated since he stayed in. I agree that whoever did this was most likely not f'd up bc they would've left evidence.
    I don't think it's safe to assume that staying in meant that JW wasn't drinking/smoking pot/doing coke or whatever else is popular with his crowd. He was watching a game and he had roommates. My experience in college was that you could go to a party, or a party could come to you. Usually it was one or the other if you were reasonably social, especially if sports watching was involved.

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  41. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jupiter812 View Post
    I had high hopes a few weeks ago when the the Spierer's said they were "pleased" with how LE was handling the case. I realize this statement was mainly to quiet the possibility of a protest in front of of LE but for some reason I had the impression that there was progress or news. That may still be true. I hope this long stretch of silence does not portend the future.
    I have to believe that if the Spierer's were becoming disillusioned with the LE progress, they would be verbal about that. And, their recent quiet has to mean something.... but what??

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  43. #147
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    Can someone remind me why LE hasn't searched the landfill?

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  45. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rallihanna View Post
    Can someone remind me why LE hasn't searched the landfill?
    What I heard was that it would be very dangerous and difficult. I think that is the official story from them. But, others here have said that they can section off areas of garbage so they wouldn't have to search the ENTIRE landfill and that they have ways of not making it that dangerous. So...I don't know. I don't know if there were real reasons not to search or if they made a bad mistake/misjudgment.

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  47. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by webrocket View Post
    even throwing a body in a dumpster has its risks of 1. being seen by someone else and 2. forensic evidence on the body and the perp

    had LE done the basics and checked dumpsters, abandoned buildings, storm drains and the like from the outset we would not be having this conversation.

    instead LE focused on the students (and I mean more than just some basic questioning) because they assumed or did not want to believe this was done by a stranger. so of course the students backed off.

    I would hope they would have checked the dumpsters any way in case there were boiy fluids. even with that some degrade with time so all that grandstanding got them nowhere.
    There was a report that a cadaber dog hit in and by a dumpster. Now wouldn't that tip off LE to search the landfills a little earlier? Garbage pick up was early Friday, at least in the areas of concern, which was what I learned from reading these threads. Now I could be wrong...
    "I believe in the sun even when it isn't shining. I believe in love, even when I am alone, I believe in God, even when He is silent.

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  49. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darcyline View Post
    <znipped>

    I don't know-I just don't feel like they have been massively incompetent here. The family also seems extremely supportive of them-much more than other cases where family has literally broken from LE. The only thing that has seemed off to me about this whole thing is the slow or possibly incomplete or not even done searches of dumpsters and landfills.


    I have always doubted the 430 time, but doubting the 430 time makes me doubt JR. I personally cannot come up with a scenario that would lead JR to make lie after lie about that night with Lauren, except still remain completely innocent and ignorant of what happened to her that night. Even if he kicked her out, I cannot see him randomly lying in ways that could be easily proven incorrect.
    Btown I think it was said many weeks ago that the ground searches in the city were thorough in checking the dumpsters. At the onset LE must have been going on leads and tips in their search of the forests and lakes as places familiar to the POI. They were so focused on the ground they had aerial flyovers, even drones. It certainly was a significant effort. Thing is she could still be out there.

    Always curious posted a scenario yesterday how HT could have fed JR his answers.

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