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Thread: IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #22

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rallihanna View Post
    Can someone remind me why LE hasn't searched the landfill?
    In addition to what Darcyline said there is a question as to whether the judge signed the warrant. The best explanation I read about this is by a poster on Tony gatto--an older post.

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  3. #152
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    I have heard so many conflicting things about dumpsters and landfills that it is still a bit of a question mark for me. I do trust Btown/our locals though so if they definitely say all dumpsters were searched thoroughly than I believe them. I never thought I would be seriously considered timelines, legalities, and methods of searching dumpsters and landfills or that it would be so complicated!

    I do think some of HT's information may be...interpretative rather than fact-based (I would rather hear it from JR/CR/MB/whoever else, you know?) but I have difficulties thinking she was some mastermind that coordinated stories between CR, MB, and JR and JR's visitor (if he exists Did we ever confirm 100% he DID have a visitor staying with him?). But then again maybe seriously every guy DID do tons of xanax so none of them remember anything and, for some reason, they let her create the story instead of a lawyer?

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  5. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloom54 View Post
    I have to believe that if the Spierer's were becoming disillusioned with the LE progress, they would be verbal about that. And, their recent quiet has to mean something.... but what??
    I could be wrong but i don't think it's their style to publicly disapprove of LE. Yet I'll bet there are moments when they'd like to, but overall they don't seem to.

    I'm thinking they might be gearing up with a communications plan for the opening of the semester.

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  7. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darcyline View Post
    I have heard so many conflicting things about dumpsters and landfills that it is still a bit of a question mark for me. I do trust Btown/our locals though so if they definitely say all dumpsters were searched thoroughly than I believe them. I never thought I would be seriously considered timelines, legalities, and methods of searching dumpsters and landfills or that it would be so complicated!

    I do think some of HT's information may be...interpretative rather than fact-based (I would rather hear it from JR/CR/MB/whoever else, you know?) but I have difficulties thinking she was some mastermind that coordinated stories between CR, MB, and JR and JR's visitor (if he exists Did we ever confirm 100% he DID have a visitor staying with him?). But then again maybe seriously every guy DID do tons of xanax so none of them remember anything and, for some reason, they let her create the story instead of a lawyer?
    After seeing how HT represented herself and her circle of friends in the media storm at the beginning of the case I can totally see her coordinating their responses. But also she probably did t know the seriousness of it at the time.

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  9. #155
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    I don't think these kids could conspire to keep a story straight, but maybe I'm wrong. Does this scenario make any sense?

    Maybe everything happened as the POI's said, with perhaps some paraphrasing to make things seem more innocent early on--
    LS helped a staggering CR home. That sounds better than they were both drunk/out of it and could barely walk as they made their way up the alley.

    MB put CR to bed sounds better than CR stumbled into the apt. and passed out.

    MB said LS asked him if he wanted to party. That sounds better than let's go do some coke/Xanax at JR's.

    Perhaps LS went to JR's and JR subsequently passed out or had a Xanax memory loss. Maybe he saw LS with one of his visitors, maybe DR or the DD was there, who knows?

    For those who might know, if you are on Xanax, is it possible to recall that something bad might have happened but you are unable to recall the details? Maybe you have a sense of dread or fear that something bad happened, but you can't quite remember what it was?

    So, JR comes to, realizes that LS is gone, calls DR to see if he knows where she is (or if he left with her?). What if JR heard something, has an inkling, but is afraid to know for sure?

    Or maybe the DD was at JR's, and JR passed out, then heard something as he was coming to, knows it was something terrible, but is afraid to say anything or is afraid to find out what the DD did. Maybe the call to DR was a panic call, I can hear DD doing something to LS, what should I do? Or the DD entered the room as JR was calling DR.

    Or the DD brought the new stuff earlier in the evening, and was still there when LS returned. Maybe she did have a bad reaction to the drugs, and the DD did not want fingers pointing at him. Maybe JR was able to pass the lie detector test since he really doesn't know what the DD did, he just knows it was very bad.

    So, perhaps HT, JR and maybe even DR know that LS had a bad reaction (per HT, she liked to party, this time she went too far), but they don't know what happened after that. Maybe the DD took her out of the apt., (put her in a dumpster?), took JR's phone with him, made the call that pinged from Martinsvlle at 4:15 to make it seem that LS was still alive, then drove back to Bloomington and did not tell JR what happened to LS but did tell him that "LS called DR at 4:15."

    Also, when LE first mentioned the white truck, they said there was a car that interested them. Then they followed up on the truck and we never heard about the car again.

    Sorry about the rambling.

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  11. #156
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    If that is true, the case will crack soon. One inexperienced girl creating an elaborate, extremely detailed story that at least 4 people have to keep straight despite it not being their own story and them having no recollection of it=easy to break apart. Perhaps LE already has.

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  13. #157
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    I know this has been discussed before, but what is the likelihood that the POI's and some of LS's other friends will return to IU for fall semester?
    Last edited by Carmen101; 08-12-2011 at 11:45 PM. Reason: better wording

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  15. #158
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    Carmen-That theory actually lays it out better or more clearly to me when trying to think about possible drug use and half-truths and possible manipulating of facts. I was thinking more dramatically when considering that scenario when a middle ground makes more sense. I am confused why one of them would drive to Martinsville to make the call though since Lauren wouldn't be out that way. Honestly, that ping (if true) makes me extremely suspicious.

    I am guessing a lot of them will return, but I know CR didn't complete classes he enrolled in this summer and I have heard that JR has not registered for Fall. Of course, I believe both of these were "insider source" information bits so...

    I would assume most minor players would come back. I am curious to see if JR/CR show back up.
    Last edited by Darcyline; 08-12-2011 at 11:50 PM. Reason: Clarity

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  17. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darcyline View Post
    If that is true, the case will crack soon. One inexperienced girl creating an elaborate, extremely detailed story that at least 4 people have to keep straight despite it not being their own story and them having no recollection of it=easy to break apart. Perhaps LE already has.
    Point I'm trying to make is I don't think she should be underestimated for having a bigger role or voice. I don't think she or any of them is a mastermind or came up with an elaborate scheme. Lucky perhaps.

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  19. #160
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    If some of these kids come back, perhaps they will party some night and their tongues will loosen and they will confide to someone what happened. We can only hope.

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  21. #161
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    If It was as simple as she ODed and they panicked . someone would have said something and/or someone would called in a tip on where to find her remains by now .If it was that simple and the fact no one has done that screams that something more sinister happed
    Everything I Write Is JMHO ..

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  23. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanManEh View Post
    How do we know that without seing the video .Untill the public views this tape you can't say for sure that it wouldn't help maybe someone in the public would see something or someone that would help with the investigation
    Exactly. Tho it's not the same medium (text vs video), LE had Ted Kaczynski's manifesto and other various writings for years before they finally released them to the public--and then, no doubt to LE's surprise, that's what broke that case.

    More information being examined by more people cannot be a bad thing.

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  25. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by CanManEh View Post
    If It was as simple as she ODed and they panicked . someone would have said something and/or someone would called in a tip on where to find her remains by now .If it was that simple and the fact no one has done that screams that something more sinister happed
    The thing about this is that it relies on there being more than 1 POI who witnessed or otherwise is in possession of the facts.

    If the seemingly dominant theory is correct, LS leaves CR/MB behind and journeys to JR's place solo. And if whatever happened in fact happened at JR's--who else is there to speak to the actual truth of the events?

    JR leaves Bloomington for Michigan that same day and then lawyers up and is apparently now in Europe--unlikely he ends up in the same room with the others around this case and somehow spills the beans on himself.

    But I agree we are getting to the point where some sort of group-wide conspiracy to cover something up becomes far less plausible. And once school starts up again, and if nothing/no one reveals anything at that point...

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  27. #164
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    There is only one real reason to get rid of a body if you think about it and thats because you knew if it were found thier may be evidence on or in her body that can place it back to the perp. Cause if it were just a OD what would they care its not like they can tell who sold her the drugs not only that but the dealers would want her found if it was innocent that way the police would take the heat off the dealers and they can go back to selling drugs.
    Everything I Write Is JMHO ..

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  29. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darcyline View Post
    I still don't think we have an entirely clear picture of how well everyone knew each other and how friendly everyone was. I know HT has been valuable, but in some cases she isn't quite the primary source for information and her interpretation of relationships is just that-her interpretation.
    Good point to keep in mind, as we grasp for any solid ground in this case. Sometimes it seems developing a theory based on what anyone in this case has said is almost no better than pedrosmom's theory.

    e.g., in prior threads, I floated a couple of my more "out there" theories, but tried to base them on what has been reported as LS's conduct/statements.

    1. that LS was delineating her recreational pharmaceutical consumption at Kilroy's that night.

    this tidbit led me to speculate that perhaps there was another substance (beyond the seemingly acknowledged alcohol/cocaine/xanax), b/c often in my experience individuals experiencing something for the first time like to catalogue all they've done before--esp if it was that night. So I profferred ketamine into the mix as a potential additional, new to LS substance that might explain some aspects of her behavior etc that night.

    2. the other statement [ on the back of which I floated a far thinner and dubious theory] is:

    LS asked MB if he wanted to party with her that night--this would've been after LS/CR returned to 5 North post-Kilroy's.


    Two aspects to it:

    Who reported this statement? MB self-reported it? DId he do so b/c it was made in front of CR? Or did he do so to perhaps corroborate/push the investigation toward an OD theory?

    Second, presuming it's true, this casts MB in perhaps a more significant light than simply MB's roommate.

    But, as I said, basing a theory on anything anyone involved has said is at best a dicey proposition.

    What about the Kilroy patrons that night? they should be able to provide more info than we've gotten so far from them.

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  31. #166
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    Drugs etc

    Quote Originally Posted by CanManEh View Post
    There is only one real reason to get rid of a body if you think about it and thats because you knew if it were found thier may be evidence on or in her body that can place it back to the perp. Cause if it were just a OD what would they care its not like they can tell who sold her the drugs not only that but the dealers would want her found if it was innocent that way the police would take the heat off the dealers and they can go back to selling drugs.
    Normally that might be true but this was a bunch of wasted college kids. They weren't thinking straight.

    I think it is likely that:
    she wandered off in a drug and alchol haze
    she was abducted
    she OD'd and her friends hid her body
    her boyfriend got jealous and killed her

    Can you tell I'm so confused I can believe anything! If I were smart I would say I have these scenarios to offer but I'm honest, not smart , I am totally clueless...........
    A parole review date is set for July 21, 2012 for Fred Howard Coffey.

    Coffey was convicted of the murder of 10 yr old Amanda Marie Ray, NC. He admitted to molesting 300 children.

    Please write a letter on behalf of Amanda.

    Suspect in the murders of:
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    14 yr old Kathy Lynn Beatty, MD
    8 yr old Travis Shane King, VA

    Possibly connected to the disappearances of:
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    11 yr old Sheila and 13 yr old Katherine Lyons, MD
    15 yr old Carolyn Majane, NJ



    Write to:
    Chairman Charles L. Mann Sr.
    NC Post Release Supervision & Parole Commission
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    RE: Fred Howard Coffey, DOC# 0081135
    or send an email to parole@doc.state.nc.us
    http://justice4amanda.tripod.com/

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  33. #167
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    Ha ha-I really feel like if anyone is arrested tomorrow I would not be shocked. Well, shocked that an arrest was made out of nowhere, but not by who it is. JR, CR, JW, random stranger, some of the minor players, any combination of the above and I would be like...yes, we should have known. It feels like several scenarios actually fit where I don't feel that way in other cases


    Who did report the MB party comment? Was it MB or was it HT saying MB did?

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  35. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeannieC View Post
    Normally that might be true but this was a bunch of wasted college kids. They weren't thinking straight.

    I think it is likely that:
    she wandered off in a drug and alchol haze
    she was abducted
    she OD'd and her friends hid her body
    her boyfriend got jealous and killed her

    I think the investigators need to work every plausible, reasonable angle. Because if this ends up at trial a "circumstantial" case, the defense's first line of defense is "did you look at other potential perps?"

    From the little I've heard about the investigation (interviewing RSO's, checking out the Waffle House angle, etc) it seems like the investigators are doing just that.

    They might be waiting on the start of the Fall semester to see who returns and to see if anyone talks (in a meaningful way). And if there's nothing, they might move on a primary POI and then proceed from there--interviewing someone like HT et al while their primary POI has never been arrested or charged wtih anything is one thing.

    Following up those interviews once you've arrested and charged a POI is another reality.

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  37. #169
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    MB Party ????

    Quote Originally Posted by Darcyline View Post
    Ha ha-I really feel like if anyone is arrested tomorrow I would not be shocked. Well, shocked that an arrest was made out of nowhere, but not by who it is. JR, CR, JW, random stranger, some of the minor players, any combination of the above and I would be like...yes, we should have known. It feels like several scenarios actually fit where I don't feel that way in other cases


    Who did report the MB party comment? Was it MB or was it HT saying MB did?
    I'm not sure.

    If that's your little dog he/she looks like mine only darker. Everytime I see your's I think of mine....
    A parole review date is set for July 21, 2012 for Fred Howard Coffey.

    Coffey was convicted of the murder of 10 yr old Amanda Marie Ray, NC. He admitted to molesting 300 children.

    Please write a letter on behalf of Amanda.

    Suspect in the murders of:
    5 yr old Neely Smith, NC
    14 yr old Kathy Lynn Beatty, MD
    8 yr old Travis Shane King, VA

    Possibly connected to the disappearances of:
    14 Yr old Tracy Anne King, PA
    11 yr old Sheila and 13 yr old Katherine Lyons, MD
    15 yr old Carolyn Majane, NJ



    Write to:
    Chairman Charles L. Mann Sr.
    NC Post Release Supervision & Parole Commission
    P.O. Box 29540
    Raleigh, NC 27626-0540
    RE: Fred Howard Coffey, DOC# 0081135
    or send an email to parole@doc.state.nc.us
    http://justice4amanda.tripod.com/

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  39. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darcyline View Post
    Who did report the MB party comment? Was it MB or was it HT saying MB did?
    v good question. i have no idea whether it came first person from MB or second-hand via HT. i just recall reading it somewhere along the way.

    Either way, it had to originate with MB? Seems like a significant comment, CR was out of commission (reportedly, ha, who knows?), but JR was right next door, but then she first asks MB if he wants to party and it'd be just the two of them?

    that made me think that MB might've had a greater role in all of this than what it seemed at first blush. Specifically, that he might've been the actual connection for their party fun. I think that's since been shot down, but I was trying to marry LS's alleged request to party with MB to the situation/person.

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  41. #171
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    The longer this goes on, the more I think this was a stranger abduction. The police have searched residences, interviewed the POI, they have nothing.

    My scenario... LS was drugged and wandering around late at night, someone offered to "give her a ride." Maybe intent was rape, maybe more drugs and she OD'ed? That person panicked, and wouldn't have much of an explanation of being with her.

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  43. #172
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    Yes, it is my dog!

    I am curious to see how they proceed. I don't think they want a cold case on their hands, but where do they go or what do they do if nothing concrete enough for an arrest shows up?

    Were the landfill searches ever actually done?

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  45. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulR View Post
    The longer this goes on, the more I think this was a stranger abduction. The police have searched residences, interviewed the POI, they have nothing.

    My scenario... LS was drugged and wandering around late at night, someone offered to "give her a ride." Maybe intent was rape, maybe more drugs and she OD'ed? That person panicked, and wouldn't have much of an explanation of being with her.

    LS is(was?) a New Yorker who had lived in Israel for a time. I doubt she'd do anything other than run the other way as fast as possible should a stranger roll up at 4:30 am and proffer a lift.

    When I first started reading about this case, my thinking was that she met up with the dealer(s) who supplied JR/CR/MB/et al with their fun and that they are responsible for whatever happened to LS and that the guys lawyered up and zipped up because of fear of LE prosecution and dealer retribution.

    the random thing, while entirely possible, seems implausible, given the circumstances/time-frame.

    Tho I also think that if the scenario is that LS was fiending for more fun, and JR contacted some sort of dealer and then LS went out to meet this dealer to get more fun and was never seen again, JR (and whomever's) attorney's would've made that pellucidly clear to the investigators asap. Which is why I've gone off the 3rd party dealer did it theory.

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  47. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesaint View Post
    LS is(was?) a New Yorker who had lived in Israel for a time. I doubt she'd do anything other than run the other way as fast as possible should a stranger roll up at 4:30 am and proffer a lift.

    When I first started reading about this case, my thinking was that she met up with the dealer(s) who supplied JR/CR/MB/et al with their fun and that they are responsible for whatever happened to LS and that the guys lawyered up and zipped up because of fear of LE prosecution and dealer retribution.

    the random thing, while entirely possible, seems implausible, given the circumstances/time-frame.

    Tho I also think that if the scenario is that LS was fiending for more fun, and JR contacted some sort of dealer and then LS went out to meet this dealer to get more fun and was never seen again, JR (and whomever's) attorney's would've made that pellucidly clear to the investigators asap. Which is why I've gone off the 3rd party dealer did it theory.
    She wasn't in NY or Israel, she was in Bloomington, and quite possibly intoxicated on multiple substances. She wouldn't have been in a frame-of-mind to necessarily run, especially if the stranger seemed like a fellow college student trying to help out.

    Not sure what you mean by the latter... if JR's lawyer would have squealed on the dealer, we'd have heard of another POI by now, and if the police suspected that the students weren't directly involved but were covering up someone's involvement because they were scared of prosecution, they'd almost certainly cut a deal to get them talking.

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  49. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darcyline View Post
    Yes, it is my dog!

    I am curious to see how they proceed. I don't think they want a cold case on their hands, but where do they go or what do they do if nothing concrete enough for an arrest shows up?

    Like Sherlock Holmes always said, once you've eliminated every other possibility, whatever remains--however (im)plausible (ha)--must be the answer.

    My guess is that Indiana's LE is, hopefully, doing the legwork to eliminate other theories of the case.

    If I were the Spierer family, I'd spring for a PI to work the case in Michigan, around the area where JR and his family are from.

    Don't immediately start searching the myriad lakes and bodies of water around that area (the HBO series 'Hung' is filmed not far from JR's Michigan residence, despite being portrayed as being "Downriver"). Circulate, mingle, drink at spots that JR and his family/friends might frequent, and just listen, see what's up.

    Maybe at some point, isolate someone who knew/knows JR very well and try to pump them for info about where JR and his buddies liked to hang out and drink.

    Which lakes does JR know best?

    You might find that you discover info that exonerates JR completely. But, if you don't, sometime soon you need to start searching lakes around there. And then keep an eye on JR and his best buddies up there and how they react to the lake searches.

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