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  1. #1

    NH - Celina Cass, 11, Stewartstown, 25 July 2011 # 9 *Arrest*

    Please continue here.


    http://www.michellesigona.com/wp-con...elina-cass.png

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    We still do not have a POI or suspect so the following warning still stands:

    THIS IS THE LAST WARNING!!!!!

    LAY OFF THIS FAMILY!
    Mental illness does NOT automatically translate into violence. The mom has made no public appearances so speculating about her intelligence, mental capacity, etc. is totally off the wall. You cannot speculate about their involvement outside of the facts given.

    WS VICTIM FRIENDLY POLICY - Websleuths is a victim friendly forum. Attacking or bashing a victim is not allowed. Discussing victim behavior,good or bad is fine, but do so in a civil and constructive way and ONLY IF IT IS RELEVANT TO THE CASE. Additionally,sleuthing family members that are not suspected of being involved in the crime or disappearance is not allowed. Don't make random accusations or post personal information (even if it is public) like parking tickets, address, or first and last names of all their relatives and their neighbors. Also, never "bash" or attack them, or accuse them of involvement. However that does not mean that family members cannot come into discussion as the facts and issues of the case are discussed.
    Rules Etiquette & Information - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

    Give it a rest until LE gives us something.

    Also, please stop bickering over the teeth and home issue.

    Any more violations and TO's will be recommended.

    Let's stick to the facts that we know and develop our theories around those. We should be getting more information soon.

    Please do NOT post rumors from Facebook or anywhere else.
    Last edited by KateB; 05-11-2015 at 09:06 PM. Reason: repair url tags.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by iamnotagolem View Post
    I agree 100%, I'm just outraged that this child died a senseless death. I want to see my feelings and thoughts in the townspeople. I've cried over this little girls death several times, I can barely talk to my husband about it w/o crying. Yet there doesn't seem to be that sense of upset in the town. Not to say they aren't sad, but there does seem to be a lack of emotion, in general.
    How would we even know that, since almost nobody in the town has talked to the press? For all we know the townspeople may be getting together and talking to each other about how upset they are. I'm impressed with how they have conducted themselves, not looking for cameras or reporters to talk to.

    Quote Originally Posted by iamnotagolem View Post
    But regarding that post, I was just surprised that the missing child poster wasn't on very many people's facebook. I was surprised that I've only seen a few RIP Celina pics. There are obviously some out there and available for people to use as their profile picture, but I've only seen 1 or 2 that I can remember. But like I said, maybe they just don't use facebook the way most people I know do.
    Not everyone is into Facebook. I'm not interested in it myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by iamnotagolem View Post
    I just have a hard time imagining seeing people prance around in my recently deceased child's clothes. I may be more emotional and sentimental than most people though.
    I could never suggest that people are less emotional or sentimental just because they conduct themselves differently than I might. These people are all strangers to us, and we know nothing about them. But I think what the girls did was very sentimental.

    Quote Originally Posted by iamnotagolem View Post
    I couldn't agree more. It pains me so much b/c I worry that in the future KL will look back and regret that her sister was "honored" in this way. I really don't know why no adult family, friend, neighbor someone explained to her how this isn't the time to be dressing up in her sister's clothes and parading (literally) around town.
    I would guess anybody who thought it was inappropriate realized that it's not their place to tell the family that or intrude in any other way. Perhaps Celina's mom and sister did talk to other family members and friends and were encouraged to go ahead with their plans. And maybe the reason why no one told them they weren't doing something inappropriate is because no one thought it was inappropriate.

  3. #3
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    The problem in many cases is not in knowing who did it, but in proving they did it beyond a reasonable doubt. This is magnified in any situation in which no one is talking and multiple alternative suspects are possible. The police need something to link one person to the body, and even this might not be enough for a murder conviction assuming no one talks -- and it seems likely that no one will.

    Remember, the majority of this family has had run-ins with law enforcement. And once you look beyind the immediate family that number only grows. We have already heard that at least one member of the family is not cooperating with the police, nor is there any reason to expect this to change. ANY lawyer is going to shut down all questioning immediately.

    The police need solid evidence. Something like Celina's blood on someone's clothes and in their vehicle, and perhaps the suspect's DNA lodged under Celin'a nails, they need an actual cause of death. Obviously LE is not talking, and at this point I don't see this as a bad sign, but unless they get some kind of serious smoking gun or someone talks the killer is probably going to get away with it.

    My opinion only. Sad, but there it is.

  4. #4
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    What would be the point of doing toxicology? Would they have some reason to believe that her death was drug or alcohol related?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tugela View Post
    What would be the point of doing toxicology? Would they have some reason to believe that her death was drug or alcohol related?
    In MY opinion with this particular group of law enforcement...

    It's just standard... to be thorough... and a good excuse to postpone giving a cause and manner of death.
    They won't release that until they make an arrest... and they don't like to say no comment. Toxicology is their convenient excuse.

    About this LE and the autopsy... if you haven't seen it.

    Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased NH - Celina Cass, 11, Stewartstown, 25 July 2011 - #6
    Last edited by KateB; 05-11-2015 at 09:05 PM. Reason: repair url tag.

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    Toxicology

    Quote Originally Posted by Tugela View Post
    What would be the point of doing toxicology? Would they have some reason to believe that her death was drug or alcohol related?
    It would rule it out.
    A parole review date is set for July 21, 2012 for Fred Howard Coffey.

    Coffey was convicted of the murder of 10 yr old Amanda Marie Ray, NC. He admitted to molesting 300 children.

    Please write a letter on behalf of Amanda.

    Suspect in the murders of:
    5 yr old Neely Smith, NC
    14 yr old Kathy Lynn Beatty, MD
    8 yr old Travis Shane King, VA

    Possibly connected to the disappearances of:
    14 Yr old Tracy Anne King, PA
    11 yr old Sheila and 13 yr old Katherine Lyons, MD
    15 yr old Carolyn Majane, NJ



    Write to:
    Chairman Charles L. Mann Sr.
    NC Post Release Supervision & Parole Commission
    P.O. Box 29540
    Raleigh, NC 27626-0540
    RE: Fred Howard Coffey, DOC# 0081135
    or send an email to parole@doc.state.nc.us
    http://justice4amanda.tripod.com/

  7. #7
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    Toxicology is pretty much routine, IMO, and where it's not it should be.

    If the results are positive it helps to establish a clear picture of what happened (eg. whether the victim was lucid enough to do something) and gives leads to investigate further, (eg. who in the neighborhood would have access to such drugs). If the results are negative they help to rule out a bunch of alternative scenarios that the defendant's defense attorney might come up with at the trial (eg. the victim was having a bad reaction to drugs and decided to throw herself in the lake because of a hallucination).

  8. #8
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    Thumbs up Toxicology

    Quote Originally Posted by Donjeta View Post
    Toxicology is pretty much routine, IMO, and where it's not it should be.

    If the results are positive it helps to establish a clear picture of what happened (eg. whether the victim was lucid enough to do something) and gives leads to investigate further, (eg. who in the neighborhood would have access to such drugs). If the results are negative they help to rule out a bunch of alternative scenarios that the defendant's defense attorney might come up with at the trial (eg. the victim was having a bad reaction to drugs and decided to throw herself in the lake because of a hallucination).
    Yea, What she said!
    A parole review date is set for July 21, 2012 for Fred Howard Coffey.

    Coffey was convicted of the murder of 10 yr old Amanda Marie Ray, NC. He admitted to molesting 300 children.

    Please write a letter on behalf of Amanda.

    Suspect in the murders of:
    5 yr old Neely Smith, NC
    14 yr old Kathy Lynn Beatty, MD
    8 yr old Travis Shane King, VA

    Possibly connected to the disappearances of:
    14 Yr old Tracy Anne King, PA
    11 yr old Sheila and 13 yr old Katherine Lyons, MD
    15 yr old Carolyn Majane, NJ



    Write to:
    Chairman Charles L. Mann Sr.
    NC Post Release Supervision & Parole Commission
    P.O. Box 29540
    Raleigh, NC 27626-0540
    RE: Fred Howard Coffey, DOC# 0081135
    or send an email to parole@doc.state.nc.us
    http://justice4amanda.tripod.com/

  9. #9
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    for justice for Celina!!
    __________________________________
    This is my very humble opinion
    Forgive me for all my Type “O’s” and Grammar errors.
    I communicate with my heart not my head.
    “These comments are my own personal opinions only and do not necessarily reflect the positions or opinions of others, W.S. or their affiliates. My posts are not to hurt or cause damage to anyone. They are merely something to ponder. All comments are based upon the current information that I know in this case and my own personal experiences. I am not posting as a professional posters and/or a verified locals/insiders* . You should conduct independent research to verify the validity of any statements made in this post before basing any decisions upon those statements. In addition, any views or opinions expressed by posters who quote my post to this thread are theirs and not mind, and I respect that."
    *

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donjeta View Post
    Toxicology is pretty much routine, IMO, and where it's not it should be.

    If the results are positive it helps to establish a clear picture of what happened (eg. whether the victim was lucid enough to do something) and gives leads to investigate further, (eg. who in the neighborhood would have access to such drugs). If the results are negative they help to rule out a bunch of alternative scenarios that the defendant's defense attorney might come up with at the trial (eg. the victim was having a bad reaction to drugs and decided to throw herself in the lake because of a hallucination).
    Additionally, I don't think any of us want to see, when this thing comes to trail, some defense attorney tearing the state ME to shreds because they did a shoddy autopsy by not conducting every test possible to rule out everything. (See Dr. Werner Spitz vs. Dr. G in the Casey Anthony trial.*) Shoddy ME work might equal reasonable doubt for the jurors.

    And it could actually show cause of death. She could have been drugged to death by being given something, or by being poisoned by something, etc. I don't think that's the case, but they have to run the tests.

    *IMO, Dr. G did NOT do a shoddy autopsy!


  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tugela View Post
    What would be the point of doing toxicology? Would they have some reason to believe that her death was drug or alcohol related?
    Toxicology tests are standard procedure for a suspicious death. It's just one more piece of evidence investigators use to build a case. It also can be used to dispute a defendant's claim that someone died from a drug overdose.

    Positive results for drugs or alcohol do not necessarily give them a cause of death. They can establish cause of death if tests indicate a deadly concentration or a deadly combination of drugs. They also can provide clues to a victim's activity before death. Sometimes, those clues can link a victim to a suspect even if the tox results don't indicate that the cause of death was drug- or alcohol-related.

  12. #12
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    Does anyone know whether there were multiple calls to police on the day that Celina was reported missing? I know the neighbor called 911 after speaking to Celina's sister. I thought I read that someone else called 911. I find it curious that the neighbor called 911. Did the sister say something to indicate that nobody else had called? Did the sister say something to alert the neighbor?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by HeinekenMan View Post
    Does anyone know whether there were multiple calls to police on the day that Celina was reported missing? I know the neighbor called 911 after speaking to Celina's sister. I thought I read that someone else called 911. I find it curious that the neighbor called 911. Did the sister say something to indicate that nobody else had called? Did the sister say something to alert the neighbor?
    Initially, it was assumed that the family called in the morning and that the neighbor had called at 2:30ish (we got that time from an article). It was later reported that after KL came over to the neighbor's looking for Celina, the neighbor was actually the one to call around 9ish in the morning. When interviewed, she said that when she got there LCN was so upset she could barely get out of her that they hadn't seen her since the night before around 9. So it appears that she (the neighbor) was the only person to call.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_Texas View Post
    The problem in many cases is not in knowing who did it, but in proving they did it beyond a reasonable doubt. This is magnified in any situation in which no one is talking and multiple alternative suspects are possible. The police need something to link one person to the body, and even this might not be enough for a murder conviction assuming no one talks -- and it seems likely that no one will.

    Remember, the majority of this family has had run-ins with law enforcement. And once you look beyind the immediate family that number only grows. We have already heard that at least one member of the family is not cooperating with the police, nor is there any reason to expect this to change. ANY lawyer is going to shut down all questioning immediately.

    The police need solid evidence. Something like Celina's blood on someone's clothes and in their vehicle, and perhaps the suspect's DNA lodged under Celin'a nails, they need an actual cause of death. Obviously LE is not talking, and at this point I don't see this as a bad sign, but unless they get some kind of serious smoking gun or someone talks the killer is probably going to get away with it.

    My opinion only. Sad, but there it is.
    The "majority" of this family has had run-ins with the law?????? Celina didn't; her sister didn't; her mother didn't. That leaves only the SF.....and that's not a majority.
    Remember, the government cannot give anything to anyone that it has not first taken away from someone else.

  15. #15
    While LCN was so upset, I would love to have some insight from the neighbor on what WN was doing. We already know that he was on facebook and posted at 9:11 to that girl that he was living in Canaan, VT. I would just like some insight as to what in the world was going on in there. From what we have read, I just have this picture in my mind of KL calling and running around trying to find her and LCN in hysterics, while WN is in another room shaking his head at all the urgency while he casually peruses his facebook and it makes no sense to me. Other than the things that we have all read, I have no reason to say these things and have no inside knowledge. It is just how I see things since, of course, no one is reporting the facebook bit, but most of us did see that he was on facebook (By the way, his wall keeps getting shorter and his friend count is still dropping, currently down to 147) and for the life of me I can't understand that. I have a lot of friends all over the country on my facebook and if it were me, I would hit facebook almost immediately after calling 911 and my mother, to send out a call for help and for people to be on the lookout for my kid. I would give as much info as possible and tell everyone to pass around the pics from my albums and I would then shut facebook off and go look for my child. Might even tell people to leave messages there on my wall, so that they would come to my phone and I would answer later when I could. There was no visible mention of Celina being missing, no call for help, just "i live in cannan vt." So weird.

    Was LCN yelling at him? Telling him to get off the computer and come help? Anything? Did he say anything? What was his mood? Was he upset? Did he suggest calling the police, or did he urge against it saying that she would probably get her butt home any minute? Did he suggest KL go look for her or was it LCN or did KL decide to on her own? What in the world was going on in that house? I might even be able to understand not calling 911 right away and everyone being so distraught and running around in circles trying to find her that it wasn't the first thought since it would seem such an unlikely scenario in such a small town...until you throw in the casual facebook posting and that makes the whole thing so odd! And where was KM while all of this was going on? What was he doing? Was he even there or did he spend the night at a friend's house and if he was there, what were his suggestions? I'm just baffled by the whole thing.

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