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  1. #46
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    Oct 2010
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    74
    No, not from Oscoda/Au Sable, but traveled through many times. But it's not important to my understanding of the case: figuring out where the school was compared to the victims' homes, the distance to town or other areas socially important to the girls- my perspective on likely avenues of discourse are derived from plain old boring logic.

  2. #47
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    74
    Sad to see this thread getting no attention. Didn't family members have a website or facebook page? Any links to contacts would be helpful. I know the recent PD did a dig at an old barn site with no results that I know of, plus they found multiple skeletal remains near a roadway dig in the center of town (said to be prehistoric? No updates), plus that asshat, Jimmie Nelson, got a freebie. Not good days for Oscoda Justice. Everything seems to be going in the toilet, along with the lake level, jobs, etc. Only drug usage is climbing the charts. Not with a bullet, but a couple of banana clips taped together.

  3. #48
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Warren, MI
    Posts
    30
    http://www.michigan.gov/minewswire/0...0896--,00.html

    Bones said to be from Native Americans.

  4. #49
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    5,077
    The disappearance of these two girls occurred only three months after the capture of John Norman Collins, who was suspected of abducting and murdering seven girls in the Ann Arbor and Ypsilanti area. Collins was convicted of one of those murders, but not the others. 40 years later, another man was convicted of murdering one of the seven "co-eds".

    Between 1967 and 69, there were other murders of young women. Two were solved in 1969, while the other was only solved in 2011.

    In January, 1970, Cynthia Coon, age 13, went missing from Ann Arbor. She has never been found and the case is still unsolved.

    There were a number of killers preying on young women in Michigan around the time Patricia and Pamela disappeared.

  5. #50
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Midwest
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    1,613
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    The disappearance of these two girls occurred only three months after the capture of John Norman Collins, who was suspected of abducting and murdering seven girls in the Ann Arbor and Ypsilanti area. Collins was convicted of one of those murders, but not the others. 40 years later, another man was convicted of murdering one of the seven "co-eds".

    Between 1967 and 69, there were other murders of young women. Two were solved in 1969, while the other was only solved in 2011.

    In January, 1970, Cynthia Coon, age 13, went missing from Ann Arbor. She has never been found and the case is still unsolved.

    There were a number of killers preying on young women in Michigan around the time Patricia and Pamela disappeared.
    Who was the other convicted man? Was he a teen or early twenties in 1969?

    Everything is MOO and I am always willing to be wrong!


    October 2013 marked 60 years since Evelyn Hartley's violent kidnapping while babysitting.

    We need fresh eyes in the case - please visit us in
    Evelyn's thread!

  6. #51
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    Sep 2004
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    5,077

    The other convicted killer...

    Quote Originally Posted by Claudette View Post
    Who was the other convicted man? Was he a teen or early twenties in 1969?
    I assume you are asking about the man convicted of one of the "seven" Co-Ed murders generally thought to have been the work of Collins?

    In 2005, a Michigan man - Gary Leiterman - was convicted of the murder of Jan or Jane Mixer, one of the seven "Co-ed" victims. He had never been connected to Collins or to any of the murder victims until a DNA test done on the victim's clothing still in evidence matched with his DNA, which was on file due to a felony conviction involving drugs.

    Leiterman denied abducting and killing Miss Mixer, but was convicted on the strength of the DNA evidence. I believe that he was in his 20's in 1969. He had a car which he used to offer a ride to his victim, and he did own a handgun, thought to have been the murder weapon.


    John Collins had a close friend and associate named Andrew Manuel, (alias Richard Diaz alias John Stowtack). Manuel was Collins' partner and room mate. They also had a third room mate who might have been involved in, or had knowledge of some of the murders. On one occasion, three men (one of them identified as Collins) were seen by an eye witness giving victim Joan Schell a ride in a red car just before she was murdered.

    Manuel's close association with Collins, and his very suspicious flight from Michigan after Collins' arrest are an indication of his knowledge of, and complicity in the murders. In fact, the two traveled together across country from Michigan to California with a stolen camping trailer. They were both in California when five young girls were murdered, and then they left the trailer in California to return to Michigan together in a silver Oldsmobile.

    In their short time back in Michigan, on 23 July 1969, 18 year old Karen Sue Beineman was abducted and murdered. Collins was soon arrested and charged with her murder.

    Immediately, Manuel left Michigan for California (probably to remove or destroy evidence in the trailer), and then made his way to Phoenix, AZ where he was caught in early August 1969.

    During his flight through California, another still unidentifed girl was murdered near Lompoc in a similar manner to some of the Michigan murders. She was stabbed numerous times with a knife. Perhaps just a Big coincidence...

    That girl, sometimes referred to as "Lompoc Jane Doe" remains unidentified. Author Sue Grafton based her crime novel "Q is for Quarry" on her case.

    I have no idea where either Leiterman or Manuel were on 31 October 1969, but it would be a good question to ask.

  7. #52
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    17
    Just my two cents worth, is there a way to search for later convicted sex offenders/murders who may have been stationed at the air base during that time?

    For some reason I can see two teenage girls being lured by a promise of a Halloween party with older men, especially after the summer of love (Woodstock).

  8. #53
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    74

    Police: Information missing from 1969 file on girls’ disappearance

    Posted: Wednesday, June 19, 2013 5:00 am

    Holly Nelson

    OSCODA – Oscoda Township Police Chief Mark David said he has learned that two girls who went missing from Oscoda on Oct. 31, 1969 were not last seen on River Road near Oscoda High School.

    A witness recently came forward to report giving a ride to the girls and dropping them off at a gas station then located at River Road and US-23.

    According to David, this witness was puzzled as to why media reports continue to give the place of the girls’ disappearance as just east of the school, since he had told investigators about picking up the girls in 1969.

    “There is nothing, absolutely nothing about this in the case file,” he said.

  9. #54
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    74
    With the lead cop saying this case has missing files, is anyone surprised or alarmed? Nobody seems to want to discuss it anymore, yet that little piece from a local witness, who discounts DECADES worth of "last sighting reports", generates nothing?

    Has anyone figured out where the OLD WITNESS claims to have dropped the girls off? It was an old gas station.

    NOW it is the FIRE DEPARTMENT and TOWN HALL. That's where they WENT MISSING.

    Picket that area with signs and see what happens.

  10. #55
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    May 2011
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    7,929


  11. #56
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    74
    btw, I figured the gas station where the witness claims to have dropped the girls off was located on the SW corner of River Rd. and S. State (23), which has been rebuilt to house the Township Council offices, and the Fire Department.

    Still only a couple blocks from the American Legion Hall, if anyone wants to try to connect it to the fantastic stories surrounding the "Oakland County" killer, but I find that to be sad fantasy. Plus, despite the fact this case has been tied to that one by others, none have ever shown if or where an American Legion post existed in Oscoda in 1969.

  12. #57
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    Apr 2009
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    1,093

  13. #58
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    1,093
    OSCODA (WJRT) -
    (10/31/13) - Most people are now relaxing after a night of costumes and candy, but Halloween brings back chilling memories for an Oscoda native.

    She was just 8 years old, coming home from trick or treating, when she learned her big sister never made it home from school that day.

    That was 44 years ago, a night that changed her life forever.
    ABC 12 Flint MI

  14. #59
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    74

    Full WJRT News Report, 11/31/2013

    Patricia Spencer, 16, & Pamela Hobley, 15, Oscoda, 31 Oct 1969

    Full video of the recent TV report, ULd to YouTube.
    Last edited by CarlK90245; 10-17-2014 at 06:26 PM.

  15. #60
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    104
    Is it possible the two girls were going to the same area and hooked up to hitchhike together, safety in numbers.

    That would explain why they may have been traveling together even though they didn't really know each other.

    If picked up hitchhiking, anything could have happened. And it wouldn't have mattered if they were last on the road east of school or at the gas station.

    Before I read about them possibly being dropped off at a gas station, I was wondering if they were out on some lonely road, that they may have just been hit by car where the driver panicked and got rid of the evidence.

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